Author Topic: I am angered right now  (Read 8364 times)

Offline bbm_stitchbuffyfan

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I am angered right now
« on: June 19, 2006, 11:23:19 pm »
Okay, I don't want my true, dumbass colors to shine through or anything and find out that I'm wrong about this but I'm so not giving into this that easily. It seems like bullshit to me.

I went out to eat the other day with two people, one of which is a friend of mine and the other a friend of her's. The topic of homosexuality came up in discussion and they both said that "homosexuality is an abnormality of the brain." I responded with "What?" in obvious disbelief. They both said "Yeah, they've proven that. That's a fact." I'm thinking, "okay, whatever..."

So then, aloud, I ask "Yeah, are these the same people who think homosexuality is sodomy?" They have no idea what I'm talking about, I assume, since they don't respond. I continue, "You know, the people who run around with their Bibles and say--" They're both rather quick to say "Oh, no, not at all."

Then my friend says to me, "You've never heard that before?" I say, "No, I haven't."

All right. You have to be coming out of a long-term, memory-altering coma to not know that the world is littered with homophobes. But I have never heard of this before and I was wondering if any of you have any insight into these so-called "scientifically-proven facts."

What especially pissed me off about this, aside from the fact that it seems to be information bred by closet-case homophobes (awkward pun) is how my acquaintances stated this as fact -- using the word 'abnormality.'

Regardless, I'm pissed right now... What do you guys think/know?
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gattaca

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Re: I am angered right now
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2006, 11:39:26 pm »
First - I'd let it roll off your shoulder like water. Don't let it rile you. You will find that people hold all kinds of ignorant misinformation about all kinds of things.

Hatred and ignorance is usually an outward manifestation of fears that we can't articulate. These people sound like they are merely parroting what they have heard. They probably didn't even realize they were using the word 'abnormality' in a context you would find offensive.
I have been gay for as long as I can remember, and I don't think there's anything wrong with my brain (that I'll admit to), but I also did not consciously decide to be homosexual.

You say in your post that, "They both said 'Yeah, they've proven that. That's a fact.' ". You might reply with something like, "It's proven? Where? Show me the report/study/analysis that proves what you're saying." They can't, of course.

Offline bbm_stitchbuffyfan

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Re: I am angered right now
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2006, 11:43:48 pm »
You're right. With time, I'll be able to just brush it off but at the time, I was just so irritated. I felt like asking them where they had heard this but I didn't think about it for some reason...

And one of them, my friend, isn't even homophobic. (Unless there's something we all don't know about her.) But she has a number of gay friends... But I suppose even that isn't enough to prevent someone from making ignorant comments.
If you'd just realize what I just realized then we'd be perfect for each other and we'd never have to wonder if we missed out on each other now
We missed out on each other now


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vkm91941

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Re: I am angered right now
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2006, 11:46:53 pm »
Here are just a few links with pages and pages of the kinds of misinformation some people swallow as "fact".  Sounds like your friends are not malicious they just need educating.


http://home.netcom.com/~masonc/homosexuality.html

http://www.uncommonforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=16659&start=45

http://www.e-thepeople.org/article/43294/view?viewtype=


Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: I am angered right now
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2006, 11:54:53 pm »
I'm no expert on the subject of clinical or psychological studies on homosexuality, but I'm quite sure the opposite has happened from what your friends said.  No respected psychiatrist would claim homosexuality as an "abnormality" anymore.  Quack psychiatrists used to think it was a disorder or could be cured, but boards on the regulation of psychiatry as a practice officially discredited those claims long ago (sorry I don't have the year at my finger tips).

It's hard to say "don't let it get you down" when it was your friends who said these things.  I can imagine it would be very frustrating.  It's good that you can come here and let off some steam.  Do you have other "real life" friends that you can talk to about this?  It will probably help to talk it all out.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: I am angered right now
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2006, 12:42:20 am »
From Wikipedia:

Among the most noted examples of controversial diagnoses is the classifying in the DSM-II of homosexuality as a mental disorder, a classification that was removed by vote of the APA in 1973 after three years of various gay activists groups demonstrating at APA meetings (see also homosexuality and psychology).


[In other words, subsequent editions (DSM-III and DSM-IV) do not list homosexuality as a disorder.]

The DSM is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV-TR), published by the American Psychiatric Association, is the handbook used most often in diagnosing mental disorders in the United States.

PS I am no expert on this, either, but I remember this issue pretty clearly from my Intro to Psychology classes in college, 20+ years ago.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: I am angered right now
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2006, 12:45:04 am »
Yeehaw Katherine!  Thanks for looking that up.
 :D
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Offline delalluvia

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Re: I am angered right now
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2006, 01:34:34 am »
What Vickie said.

Whenever anyone says something off the wall like that, my usual response is an astonished, "Says who?"

If they can't remember or heard it on TV or read it on the net, I'd cast my usual aspersion on it unless they can be specific.  If they persist, ask them to please send you the information because - other than the AMA needing this information - obviously not 'everyone' knows and there is probably a Nobel Peace Prize waiting for someone who has this 'proven' information.   ::)

I'd say that last to them as snidely as I could.  ;D

Offline starboardlight

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Re: I am angered right now
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2006, 02:11:29 am »
you should have asked them to site their source. it's their responsibility to back up their claim. but yeah, i totally see where your anger is coming from. worse of all,homophobia coming from a friend is disheartening. but it's good that it reveals how deeply ingrain it is. many of us would like to think that's it the bible thumpers and the back water hicks that are homophobes, but truth is, even the most "enlightened" and "sophisticated" urbanites can be homophobic. it's good that it reveals to you, your friend as she really is.
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Offline starboardlight

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Re: I am angered right now
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2006, 02:13:46 am »
What Vickie said.

Whenever anyone says something off the wall like that, my usual response is an astonished, "Says who?"

If they can't remember or heard it on TV or read it on the net, I'd cast my usual aspersion on it unless they can be specific.  If they persist, ask them to please send you the information because - other than the AMA needing this information - obviously not 'everyone' knows and there is probably a Nobel Peace Prize waiting for someone who has this 'proven' information.   ::)

I'd say that last to them as snidely as I could.  ;D

i'm gonna go practice my snide voice now.  ;D
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Offline JCinNYC2006

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Re: I am angered right now
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2006, 02:22:36 am »
You have no snide voice!  Not a snide bone in yer body!
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Offline opinionista

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Re: I am angered right now
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2006, 05:48:45 am »
Okay, I don't want my true, dumbass colors to shine through or anything and find out that I'm wrong about this but I'm so not giving into this that easily. It seems like bullshit to me.

I went out to eat the other day with two people, one of which is a friend of mine and the other a friend of her's. The topic of homosexuality came up in discussion and they both said that "homosexuality is an abnormality of the brain." I responded with "What?" in obvious disbelief. They both said "Yeah, they've proven that. That's a fact." I'm thinking, "okay, whatever..."

So then, aloud, I ask "Yeah, are these the same people who think homosexuality is sodomy?" They have no idea what I'm talking about, I assume, since they don't respond. I continue, "You know, the people who run around with their Bibles and say--" They're both rather quick to say "Oh, no, not at all."

Then my friend says to me, "You've never heard that before?" I say, "No, I haven't."

All right. You have to be coming out of a long-term, memory-altering coma to not know that the world is littered with homophobes. But I have never heard of this before and I was wondering if any of you have any insight into these so-called "scientifically-proven facts."

What especially pissed me off about this, aside from the fact that it seems to be information bred by closet-case homophobes (awkward pun) is how my acquaintances stated this as fact -- using the word 'abnormality.'

Regardless, I'm pissed right now... What do you guys think/know?

These ideas are usually spread by homophobic people. There are many scientist and other professionals who use their expertise to distort facts and information. They give the honest and truly professional ones a bad name. The problem is that most of them are considered credible sources by a great number of people because they have a MD. title or a PHd (no offense to people in this forum with Phd or MD titles). One thing I have learned thorugh my college education and my profession is that the so called experts aren't always objective. There are a lot of subjectivity in their studies and remarks and one needs to be careful when using their information. Remember the Nazis. They came up with a lot of scientific studies "proving" the jew were an inferior race. Similar thing happened at the beginning of the 20th century in the US. There were many racist doctors or experts declaring some people moral imbeciles or genetically unfit because they were blacks or hispanics.

I know this trend is unlikely these days, but there are still racist and homophobic people out there using science for their own benefit and to support their beliefs, so whenever you come across with a scientific fact about anything, always seek a second or third opinion.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2006, 07:03:54 am by opinionista »
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Offline David

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Re: I am angered right now
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2006, 07:07:09 am »
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

  If being gay is an illness, then I want to call into work sick.
  "Sorry, I can't work today either, I'm still gay".   


 
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: I am angered right now
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2006, 08:13:34 am »
I know this trend is unlikely these days, but there are still racist and homophobic people out there using science for their own benefit and to support their beliefs, so whenever you come across with a scientific fact about anything, always seek a second or third opinion.

Not only that, but scientists don't have to be racist or homophobic to be wrong. Sometimes they're just wrong. In fact, sometimes even the second or third opinions are wrong! So even citing a scientific source (not that your friend has one, but even if she did) does not always "prove" anything. Especially if it's something to do with human behavior, which is notoriously hard to study empirically.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2006, 08:15:17 am by latjoreme »

Offline Sheyne

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Re: I am angered right now
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2006, 08:21:53 am »
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

  If being gay is an illness, then I want to call into work sick.
  "Sorry, I can't work today either, I'm still gay".   


 
Dumbass mules    :P



 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Now if they decided to make stupidity an official sickness....   :o

Although, golly, can you imagine?  It'd cripple welfare systems in hours..
Chut up!

Offline Lynne

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Re: I am angered right now
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2006, 08:57:31 am »
Hatred and ignorance is usually an outward manifestation of fears that we can't articulate
...
You say in your post that, "They both said 'Yeah, they've proven that. That's a fact.' ". You might reply with something like, "It's proven? Where? Show me the report/study/analysis that proves what you're saying." They can't, of course.

StitchBuffy...Everyone else has had awesome responses to this.  I like gattaca's reply, partially quoted above, myself.  You just hang in there.

I was telling my oldest friend a few days ago about some of the Pride activities people around here are getting involved with (because BetterMost and BBM are my two fave topics of conversation, yanno?) and had to go through de-bunking the gay/pedophile (non) connection.

The *single* thing she knew about Gay Pride parades was the controversy over that man/boy love contingency marching.  I was proud of myself because instead of swallowing my anger and the other negative feelings that go along with it, we talked enough to get to the root of her reservations, did some (admittedly light) research, but I believe she came away with an understanding that homosexuals are no more likely, and probably less likely, to be sex offenders than the general population.

Lynne
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Offline welliwont

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Re: I am angered right now
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2006, 09:27:40 am »

The topic of homosexuality came up in discussion and they both said that "homosexuality is an abnormality of the brain." I responded with "What?" in obvious disbelief. They both said "Yeah, they've proven that. That's a fact." I'm thinking, "okay, whatever..."

.....

Then my friend says to me, "You've never heard that before?" I say, "No, I haven't."

All right. You have to be coming out of a long-term, memory-altering coma to not know that the world is littered with homophobes. But I have never heard of this before and I was wondering if any of you have any insight into these so-called "scientifically-proven facts."


At the risk of beiing pilloried, I would just like to offer this...  perhaps it was the use of the word abnormaility that made you angry?  Ok, I was not there to hear the conversation, but my first impression is, maybe they were referring to the news items that have made the news periodically in the past few years, whereby scientists who are studying the brain have pinpointed differences between the brains of homosexuals and non-homosexuals.  Using the CAT scans, MRI's, brain-imaging technology, whatever other new-fangled technology that is out there now....  this is science, trying to explain how homosexuality comes to be.   --  Is it learned, is it inherent in the genes?

Yeah, I can see that there might be differences in the brains of homosexuals vs non-homosexuals.  That supports the theory that some homosexuals are born 'that way'.  I accept that, so the brains being wired differently makes complete sense to me....  If I used the term abnormal I might raise someone's hackles though....

J
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Offline ednbarby

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Re: I am angered right now
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2006, 09:49:40 am »
That's what I was thinking, too, Jane.  But I do think their choice of the word "abnormality" instead of "difference" belies their homophobia.

I was irritated this morning to click on the radio just as a male DJ's voice was saying "Brokeback Mountain" (which of course made my ears prick up) only to have a "comedian" visiting the station go on to make a joke about it.  Actually, it wasn't a bad joke - he was making an excellent point - he was saying that his guy friends had no interest in seeing it and were all "Ooh, nooooo, that's gay..." but that these same guys would pay double to see it if it were about two hot lesbian cowgirls.  What irritated me is he then referred to it as (I shudder to even type this) "Brokebitch Mountain."  GAH!  It's still under my skin two hours later.  Out, OUT damn spot!
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Offline starboardlight

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Re: I am angered right now
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2006, 10:50:13 am »
You have no snide voice!  Not a snide bone in yer body!

oh it's there. it's just a little rusty.  ;)
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Offline starboardlight

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Re: I am angered right now
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2006, 08:07:32 pm »
stichy, I wonder if this is what your friend is talking about.

http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid32775.asp
_____________________________________________________
Pentagon policy document lists homosexuality as a mental disorder

Although homosexuality was declassified as a mental disorder more than 30 years ago, a Pentagon document still regards it as such. Discovered by the Center for the Study of Sexual Minorities in the Military earlier this month, the document outlining retirement and other discharge policies for service members lists homosexuality as a defect along with mental retardation and personality disorders, the Associated Press reports.

"The policy reflects the [defense] department's continued misunderstanding of homosexuality and makes it more difficult for gays and lesbians to access mental health services," Nathaniel Frank, senior research fellow at the University of California center in Santa Barbara, told the AP. The policy in question, called the Defense Department Instruction, is the only Pentagon regulation that considers homosexuality to be a mental disorder.

"It is disappointing that certain Department of Defense instructions include homosexuality as a 'mental disorder' more than 30 years after the mental health community recognized that such a classification was a mistake," U.S. representative Marty Meehan, D-Massachusetts, told the AP. Nine Congress members sent a letter to secretary of defense Donald Rumsfeld yesterday asking for a full review of all documents pertaining to homosexuality.

The American Psychiatric Association decided homosexuality was not a disorder in 1973, and since then all other major health and mental-health organizations have followed suit. James H. Scully Jr., the head of the APA, sent a letter to the Pentagon's chief doctor informing him of that fact, according to the AP.

A Pentagon spokesperson told the AP that the controversial document is being reviewed. (The Advocate)
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Offline sparkle_motion

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Re: I am angered right now
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2006, 09:27:21 pm »
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

  If being gay is an illness, then I want to call into work sick.
  "Sorry, I can't work today either, I'm still gay".   


 
Dumbass mules    :P



After reading Chris' terrible news, I was just sitting here stunned and then read what you typed. It made me bust out. I heart you, David.
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