I want to bring up the whole agruement at the lake. I have heard a few different points of view and I would like to hear all of your opinions.
You probably know mine already, so I hope you don’t mind if I weigh in here … just to keep the discussion moving …
When Jack says, "I did once" .... when I first saw the film, I thought Jack meant that he did have a better idea by going to Mexico, having sex with a prostitute and not having any emotional baggage. Someone else said that when Jack said, "I did once" he was referring to having a life with Ennis. Ennis didn't want to hear the same old thing, so he picked a fight about Mexico ... i.e. putting the issue back on Jack. It ended up backfiring because all this other stuff came out and Jack brought up the subject of a life together anyway. Honestly, at this point I don't know what I think.
Well, let’s see if I can sway you over.
![Wink ;)](https://bettermost.net/forum/Smileys/cowboy/wink.gif)
(When you said “someone else” above, I think you’re referring to me. I’ve always said this.)
Since the first time I saw the film I’ve changed my mind on a number of points, but I have always thought, and most likely will continue to think, that Jack meant “live together.” Couple of reasons: That's what Jack always says – reunion river scene, cow-and-calf operation, sweet life – post-divorce scene, “I thought…” with his sideways glance – move to Texas scene , move to Texas – final lake scene, same old Jack… “I did once.” Ennis always goes back to fear; Jack always goes back to living together.
Second, put yourself in Jack’s boots… he heard Ennis ask him whether he’d had a better idea… what’s the first thing that will come to his mind? Mexico or live together? When Jack hears the words “BETTER idea,” what will come to his mind? Mexico or live together? The reason Ennis asked his question at this time is because he was trying to throw out “fun” bait for Jack to assuage Jack concerning missing August. Hunt, elk, cabin… “we had a good time that year.” But Jack is unmoved and responds that this is a “goddamn bitch of an unsatisfactory situation.” In other words, “We’ve got a dilemma here, Ennis.” So Ennis, who has thrown out his bait asks Jack whether he has a better idea. Remember, he’s not asking Jack if Jack has a better idea about how to handle their relationship. He’s asking Jack if he has a better idea about the fact that they’re missing out on August. It’s about time. Jack just said “Never enough time, never enough.” Meaning? Meaning "We never have enough time together and we would have all the time in the world together if we were actually together." So Ennis is asking Jack about how they can handle this time problem. This is Ennis’ big mistake – because he knows Jack well enough to know that Jack is going to come back with “live together,” as always. And so Jack responds that he “did once” have a better idea about how the two of them can handle their time dilemma – live together. Not Mexico. How does Jack going to Mexico fix their time problem? Regardless how one views the back-and-forth in this part of the scene, would Jack EVER believe that Mexico was a better idea?
Now Ennis knows what Jack meant. How does he respond? He puts Jack on the defensive. “You been to Mexico?” Jack doesn’t correct him here because Jack knows what Ennis is doing – Jack knows Ennis very well – and because Jack sees this as an opportunity for some truth to jump into their pool of lies. So he goes with the Mexico bit for Ennis’ sake. But immediately when it’s over, he goes back to his better idea – live together – but Ennis didn’t want it.
I can kind of see how one might think it’s about Mexico at first, but doesn’t it throw up a red flag asking “What? Jack thinks that Mexico was a better idea? That doesn’t make sense. All Jack ever wants to do is live with Ennis.”
As I’ve said, I have changed my mind on a number of issues from the film, but I’ve never heard anyone put forth a good argument that Jack really believed that Mexico was a BETTER idea.
It was not okay, in Ennis' mind, to have sex with another man. Ennis was faithful to Jack. He expected Jack to do the same.
Agreed. But WHY does Ennis feel this way? Back to his fears – always back to his fears. They are his prime motivators. If Jack has been with other men, then Jack is gay, and that breaks their “we’re not queer” pact, and that makes Ennis “queer” and that just won’t fit into his reality.
Then he hears Jack say he has had sex with another man and that their infrequent couplings were not enough.
Jack starts speaking the brutal truth. This begins Ennis’ breakdown. His worlds are colliding -- his “I like to have sex with Jack” world and his “I’m not queer” world.
After Jack says, "I wish I knew how to quit you .." and Ennis replies, "Why don't you? Why don't you let me be? It's because of you, Jack, that I'm like this ..." IMO, Ennis did not see himself as gay.
Yes!
In Ennis' mind, it was Jack's fault that he loved a man. Then, the man he loved betrayed him by having an "affair".
But again, why does this hurt/confuse Ennis? Because it challenges his self-concept. He’s been fighting this battle within himself for twenty years now.
None of what was said was news. But, having said it outloud was hurtful to both.
No doubt!
Then it goes into the dozy embrace, which is a different issue altogether. I won't open that can of worms at this moment.
Oh, but what a beautiful can of worms the dozy embrace is!
Getting back to the whole "I did once" issue ... Was Jack trying to quit Ennis? Was Ennis trying to quit Jack? Did Jack want to hurt Ennis as he had been hurt?
I’d LOVE to discuss this. But I can’t until you let me know how you define “quit.”
I see Jack and Ennis' reunion and the lake scene as bookends.
Exactly.
It's as if their "ride" is almost over. Each one can hardly handle this secret and intense love.
Yes, to the first sentence. Second sentence – Ennis can hardly handle his heart and his mind ripping him in two pieces; Jack can hardly stand the two of them being ripped in two pieces.
I'd like to hear your thoughts!
Well, unlike Ennis, I always deliver. I’ll bet you meant you want to hear other people’s thoughts besides mine all the time. And I agree 100%. I’d love to have more thoughts on this from others. But we’re doing o.k., huh?