Author Topic: Since Ennis was so closeted, why did he out himself to the Twists?  (Read 13271 times)

Offline welliwont

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Re: Since Ennis was so closeted, why did he out himself to the Twists?
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2006, 09:11:10 pm »
Hello David!

I am so glad you have addressed my post  ;D and answered my questions in it...

I have one or two questions back to you now.... but first I will agree with almost everything that you wrote:


I think this statement tells us that Ennis is aware that he cannot handle living two lives like Jack does.  He is trying to act "Straight" in society and yet is in love with Jack, a man.

Asking if "things are alright, normal like with Lureen?"    he is asking Jack if he is still able to be with his wife as a regular married man.   Something Ennis failed at with Alma.   

His continued paranoia over people finding out remains, but towards the end of the movie and the lake scene, he finally dumps Cassie because he wants Jack to be his one and only lover.

It is hard to say if Ennis sees himself as "gay" up until that point.   Maybe he thought he was bisexual at least?   As long as he could keep Jack his secret.


yep, yep, yep and yep.  This all fits for me....



That is why the lake scene fight is so important.     Ennis at first is mad at Jack for not being faithful.   Then after Jack blasts him for not being there enough for him and the threat of quitting him, that breaks the Dam holding back Ennis's true feelings.

yep agin, that works, I mean I agree with that...

Quote
Ennis is suddenly realizes that he can hardly stand it without Jack too.   That last line he says is great: "Jack I can't stand it no more".   Stand it meaning : loving each other without being able to be around each other.


Ok David, now this I need to question.  I bolded your statement, and I would like to rebut here:  If he can't stand it without being able to be around each other, than WTF, Ennis is the one who is making himself unavailable!!!  hunh?? ??? ???  Has this guy got multiple personalities, or whut?? ???  :laugh:

<<Ennis:  "Jack, sorry, but I can't see you until November, six months from now,......(five minute time lapse)...  boo hoo hoo, I can't stand loving you without being around you, boo hoo hoo.">>

Sorry David, that answer does not compute!   ;)

I realize my arguments are very shall we say amateur,  but I am being very direct here, not layering them in a lot of deep analysis, (which I can see coming at me, and I am not as good at expressing as some of the deep thinkers here on this thread),  but nevertheless, I am taking Ennis' statements and actions, and Jack's statements and actions at face value and trying to reconcile them, or fit them all together into a puzzle that works. 

This post went on and on and on, but I had to cut everthing beyond this point because it was not explained very well, but  at least I did not junk the whole post.....

Jane
Then the clouds opened up and God said, "I hate you, Alfafa."

Offline dly64

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Re: Since Ennis was so closeted, why did he out himself to the Twists?
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2006, 09:44:53 pm »
I realize my arguments are very shall we say amateur,  but I am being very direct here, not layering them in a lot of deep analysis, (which I can see coming at me, and I am not as good at expressing as some of the deep thinkers here on this thread),  but nevertheless, I am taking Ennis' statements and actions, and Jack's statements and actions at face value and trying to reconcile them, or fit them all together into a puzzle that works. 

Jane, Jane, Jane ..... don't discount yourself. I really enjoy hearing all of your insights (and yes, they are insights).  ;)

Ah Diane, I think I am going round and round the mulberry bush with this movie, I used to think I would be able to understand and explain the movie, both the characters, all the ambiguities, to wrap it all up in a nice little package to myself, "there!  this is what this means, this is what the movie is all about...."  Ironically I was asking this identical question 2.5 months ago on IMDb when I first saw the movie.  I guess I haven't come much further than that.


Here is the crack up .... before I started posting on IMDb and then on BetterMost, I was 100% convinced that my  point of view was the correct one. Then I starting reading the boards. YIKES! I think I changed my opinion 100 times or more. I just get a high from discussing this film. It's too much fun to hear other's point of view ... ya know what I mean???   ;D
Diane

"We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em."

Offline welliwont

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Re: Since Ennis was so closeted, why did he out himself to the Twists?
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2006, 11:36:34 pm »

Here is the crack up .... before I started posting on IMDb and then on BetterMost, I was 100% convinced that my  point of view was the correct one. Then I starting reading the boards. YIKES! I think I changed my opinion 100 times or more. I just get a high from discussing this film. It's too much fun to hear other's point of view ... ya know what I mean???   ;D

Thanks for the kind words Diane.  I don't mean for you to think that I want to sway anyone, I am not interested in making people see it my way, I just want to understand it.  I realize that this movie can mean different things to different people, but for me I just wanted to define it to myself, for myself.  I am as puzzle solver, and I wanted to crack the puzzle.

Here is something from a couple of days ago that really highlights to me that astounding diversity of the human race, and I find it quite funny (wrong word).  I was the lucky second poster to a thread started by Mel (nakymaton) which I appreciated as an excellent original idea for a new thread.  Now here was an aspect of the film that I thought was pretty clearcut, straightforward, not so ambiguous.  I never thought that there could multiple interpretations the single sentence "There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe etc etc etc."  Well!!!  was I wrong!  LOL

It was a pice of cake to whip off a quick response, this is a facet of this depthless story that I have no difficulty in defining to myself.  I thought, now for sure people are going to write back "yeah I agree 100%, yeah that's what I think too, exactly what I was goin to write, etc etc."  HAHAHAHA I never came up with any of the other interpretations that have been suggested, and I think that some of them are quite good, to the point now of asking myself, "well which one is it, is mine not the one?  humhmmm..."

I haven't looked at the thread since this morning, but so far not one person has interpreted that line the way I have.  That kills me! :laugh: :laugh:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=2973.0;all

So no, I am not trying to influence anybody's opinion, just to understand this masterpiece of a film.

Peace out.

J
Then the clouds opened up and God said, "I hate you, Alfafa."

Offline dly64

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Re: Since Ennis was so closeted, why did he out himself to the Twists?
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2006, 03:22:43 pm »
Thanks for the kind words Diane.  I don't mean for you to think that I want to sway anyone, I am not interested in making people see it my way, I just want to understand it.  I realize that this movie can mean different things to different people, but for me I just wanted to define it to myself, for myself.  I am as puzzle solver, and I wanted to crack the puzzle.

Ditto! I have come to the conclusion (and that's why this film is so great) that there are many interpretations ... all which can be plausable.

Quote
Here is something from a couple of days ago that really highlights to me that astounding diversity of the human race, and I find it quite funny (wrong word).  I was the lucky second poster to a thread started by Mel (nakymaton) which I appreciated as an excellent original idea for a new thread.  Now here was an aspect of the film that I thought was pretty clearcut, straightforward, not so ambiguous.  I never thought that there could multiple interpretations the single sentence "There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe etc etc etc."  Well!!!  was I wrong!  LOL

It was a pice of cake to whip off a quick response, this is a facet of this depthless story that I have no difficulty in defining to myself.  I thought, now for sure people are going to write back "yeah I agree 100%, yeah that's what I think too, exactly what I was goin to write, etc etc."  HAHAHAHA I never came up with any of the other interpretations that have been suggested, and I think that some of them are quite good, to the point now of asking myself, "well which one is it, is mine not the one?  humhmmm..."

I haven't looked at the thread since this morning, but so far not one person has interpreted that line the way I have.  That kills me! :laugh: :laugh:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=2973.0;all

So no, I am not trying to influence anybody's opinion, just to understand this masterpiece of a film.

Peace out.J

Okay, Jane ... you started it now. I have posted on that thread, too. Another fun topic to discuss!
Diane

"We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em."