What Scene Could have been left out

[ednbarby]

But the Twist Thanksgiving scene was clearly invented just to balance the uber-essential "Ennis and Alma Thanksgiving confrontation," and I don't think it really does much for the plot. That was the basis for my decision.

I beg to differ.  It shows that Lureen is on Jack's side where L.D. is concerned (and yes, I know her look to him in the doorway when L.D. says "Isn't [Bobby] just the spittin' image of his grandpa?" does that, too, but it doesn't hurt to reinforce that).  It shows that Jack doesn't just take it when someone implies that he's not a real man, which L.D. is clearly doing when he says "You want your boy to grow up to be a man, dontcha?  And men watch football (implication: You're not a real man so therefore you don't care to watch it)."  It shows that Jack is involved in raising Bobby.  And perhaps most important, it shows that Jack views his relationship with Lureen and Bobby as a team effort.  He's not just phoning it in like Ennis is.  He may have settled, too, but he's more invested in the Now aspect of parenting and marriage than Ennis is.

Yep.  I'd say that does a lot for the plot.

[Sheyne]

tough call.. but the fireworks scene got it for me.. only just..

The others, probably with the exception of Jack dancing with LaShawn, were all integral to the plot..

[ednbarby]

Just want to say that I love your sig line, Sheyne.  Reminds me of mine at another board:  "Studies show jogging adds years to your life.  But then you spend them jogging."

[serious crayons]

"Studies show jogging adds years to your life.  But then you spend them jogging."

 

How did I miss this thread before now? Now there's so much to catch up on! My first reaction was, none of the above, I'd give up something really tiny, like the scene of Ennis throwing hay off the truck -- and immediately realized, no way, I want every single second of Ennis intact. How about Jack showing Bobby how to drive the combine -- no, that scene establishes Jack's nice relationship with Bobby (in contrast to Jack's with his own dad).

Then I thought of the pissant scene -- perfect. It's short, inessential to the plot, virtually pointless, and seems unfair to both Jack and Lureen. Why is it necessary to establish Jack's unpopularity with anyone except for LD Newsome and maybe Jimbo? As Mikaela says, why would anyone not like Jack? And why show Lureen treating Jack disrespectfully? To me, she seems a perfectly loving wife, setting aside her increasing bitterness over you-know-what.

But Katie, I suspect you chose more important scenes to make the decision more challenging. So among those, I'd pick the fireworks scene. It accomplishes some fairly important things -- demonstrates Ennis' hot temper, gives us the memorable biker characters, shows how Ennis fights with men he's not in love with, contrasts with his less effective fighting on Thanksgiving, expresses his frustration over missing Jack or his resentment of rude heterosexual men or whatever, and sets up the iconic American image -- so striking as the finale to the movie trailer! -- of cowboy with fireworks. (I know some argue that it causes Alma to fear Ennis' violence, which to me seems unrealistic.)

But if it were omitted from the movie, I don't think we'd miss much, whereas with all the other scenes listed, we would.

Scott, now that you mention it, that DOES remind me of Billy Jack! Because Ennis kicks the one biker in the face, just like Billy Jack does when he beats up the racists! I think this registered subconsciously, but it took your post to make me realize it.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Does the "pissant" scene demonstrate that people dislike Jack, or that people disrespect Jack? I submit that dislike and disrespect aren't necessarily the same thing. Indeed, who wouldn't like Jack? But I think that it's perfectly possible to find someone likeable but for any variety of reasons, justifiable or unjustifiable, not have much respect for that person--other than, one would hope, for the modicum of respect that all human beings owe each other.

I'm holding my ground on the dispensability of the Twist Thanksgiving scene. It adds to the film by it's presence, but we wouldn't miss anything essential from the plot if it weren't there.

[ednbarby]

I'm holding my ground on the dispensability of the Twist Thanksgiving scene. It adds to the film by it's presence, but we wouldn't miss anything essential from the plot if it weren't there.

Well, how about this - since you say the pissant scene is indispensible, doesn't it beg for a counterpart - for something that shows that while others obviously disrespect Jack, he does not disrespect himself?  I say if you're gonna have one, you need to have the other.

[serious crayons]

Jeff: You're right to draw the distinction between disrespect and dislike. But Jack doesn't really seem worthy of such scorn on either basis.

Barb: That would be OK. Though I think the very fact you know that he doesn't disrespect himself suggests that message is already well conveyed. I think he shows that in pretty much every scene he's in!

[Jeff Wrangler]

Jeff: You're right to draw the distinction between disrespect and dislike. But Jack doesn't really seem worthy of such scorn on either basis.

I agree. I'm thinking maybe they overemphasized it to drive the point home--just to make sure we didn't miss it.

[tomtrueman]

When I see a movie, I always take it on faith that every scene is there for a reason, even if we might not always be sure what the director intended to show by it. 

For me, the whole movie is a perfect unit, and I wouldn't take any of it away.  In the same way, though, I also don't like to see deleted scenes in a special edition DVD, because the director had made a choice not to include them -- and besides, they weren't in the movie I fell in love with.

As for my LEAST FAVOURITE scene, I'd have to say it's the one where Ennis's vicious bastard of a father dragged his innocent nine-year-old son and forced him to look at the tortured and mutilated corpse of a man his father himself may have murdered.  I'd never delete the scene, because it was important to explain why Ennis was so damaged emotionally -- but I find the whole thing so horrifying that I'm appalled that so many others seem so casual about it.  And of the ten times I saw the movie in the theatres, I only looked at Earl the first time.

[ednbarby]

When I see a movie, I always take it on faith that every scene is there for a reason, even if we might not always be sure what the director intended to show by it. 

For me, the whole movie is a perfect unit, and I wouldn't take any of it away.  In the same way, though, I also don't like to see deleted scenes in a special edition DVD, because the director had made a choice not to include them -- and besides, they weren't in the movie I fell in love with.

As for my LEAST FAVOURITE scene, I'd have to say it's the one where Ennis's vicious bastard of a father dragged his innocent nine-year-old son and forced him to look at the tortured and mutilated corpse of a man his father himself may have murdered.  I'd never delete the scene, because it was important to explain why Ennis was so damaged emotionally -- but I find the whole thing so horrifying that I'm appalled that so many others seem so casual about it.  And of the ten times I saw the movie in the theatres, I only looked at Earl the first time.

I have to look away every time, too.  Same goes for the fleeting image of Jack's face covered in blood toward the end.

When my husband finally watched the movie, he gasped when Ennis described what had been done to Earl and said, "Jesus."  He did the same when the attack of Jack was shown.  Later, he said he appreciated that they showed both so fleetingly and not gratuitously but that even so, he couldn't get the idea of either of those murders out of his head.  Which tells me they did both just right.

I'm with you, I really wouldn't change a thing.  And I don't care to watch deleted scenes, either.  At least not in the case of a perfect film like this.  It's like, if someone said, "Hey, I got a hold of the deleted scenes from "Casablanca."  Wanna see 'em?"  I'd say HELL, no.