"There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe..."

[stevenedel]

(Hey! My tenth post! I'm no longer a tourist!) 

[serious crayons]

Ennis *knows* without a doubt, in his heart, what Jack meant to him - that he loved him. But he doesn't know that Jack ever fully knew or was made to understand how deeply Ennis loved him, - the way Ennis never spoke up, the way he behaved, from punching Jack out to omitting any verbal response to the "Sometimes I miss you so much....."  to blaming Jack for making him a "noone". Ennis can only try to believe that despite his silences and fears and his constant holding back, what he did do was still enough, so that Jack *did* at one point experience the confirmation of Ennis's love for him without any doubts lingering and lurking, *did* believe all that Ennis "swears" to Jack after Jack is gone. It seems to me one of the worst regrets Ennis has to live with is that he never managed to tell Jack his feelings right out, loud and clear. Despite their relationship taking up and shaping Ennis's entire life - he never said the words, except indirectly, and as a part of a bitter accusation. Sure, he has to try to believe and hope that what he did do was somehow still enough - but there's a huge space of doubt between that and certainty.

Well put, Mikaela. I think this, too. In fact, this is the way I interpreted the sentence the first time I read the story. I'd forgotten about that.

I wonder if Annie Proulx herself had one specific meaning and one meaning only read into that last line;

I don't think she did. I think she purposely left it vague, applicable to any number of story elements. Partly because, as we all have demonstrated, it IS applicable a lot of different ways. And partly because by doing so she draws us in and forces us to try to  figure out what's going on in Ennis' head and heart. Just like in the movie, where it would be easy enough to show Jack watching Ennis bathing -- that would make his thoughts clear -- it's more effective to show Jack concentrating on the potato peeling, because although ultimately the message is the same we have to take a more active role, have to try to figure him out for ourselves.

As you say, Mikaela, fully knowing someone's thoughts is impossible. Yet that never stops us from trying.

[nakymaton]

What seems certain to me though is that the brief paragraph preceding it covers the whole of Jack and Ennis's time together. The beans and spoon handles of Brokeback, the plans and dreams that came to nothing, the shadow of the tire iron that loomed over their relationship the entire life because of its significance to Ennis, the love, the sex, the grief and tears. That it's cast in "cartoon shape(s) and lurid colours that (give) the dreams a flavour of comic obscenity" seems very harsh, entirely unsentimental, and pointing to a great deal of tragic irony in Ennis's situation at the end of the story.

Oh, wow. I honestly hadn't known what to make of the spoon handle transforming into a tire iron in Ennis's dreams. It seemed like it should seem like a threat... but why the spoon handle? And why the "comic obscenity"? It was such a bizarre image that I sort of skipped over it, putting it aside as one of those weird things that happens in dreams. But it's not the sort of detail that would be thrown in randomly. In the descriptions, in particular, every word counts, and maybe the words that don't make sense on the first reading mean more than all the others.

And this:

Ennis *knows* without a doubt, in his heart, what Jack meant to him - that he loved him. But he doesn't know that Jack ever fully knew or was made to understand how deeply Ennis loved him, - the way Ennis never spoke up, the way he behaved, from punching Jack out to omitting any verbal response to the "Sometimes I miss you so much....."  to blaming Jack for making him a "noone". Ennis can only try to believe that despite his silences and fears and his constant holding back, what he did do was still enough, so that Jack *did* at one point experience the confirmation of Ennis's love for him without any doubts lingering and lurking, *did* believe all that Ennis "swears" to Jack after Jack is gone.

Ok, I swore I was just going to read and not agree or disagree with anyone here, but this is brilliant.

Though I don't believe that Ennis wished he had said "I love you" to Jack. But that's at least in part because I think the words "I love you" have become meaningless and hollow from overuse in cheesy, shallow movies and fiction, and I think that they are more often meant when they aren't said.

[Jeff Wrangler]

(Hey! My tenth post! I'm no longer a tourist!) 

Congratulations and Welcome! We can always use new ranch hands! (And a very good post it was, too!) 

[serious crayons]

Though I don't believe that Ennis wished he had said "I love you" to Jack. But that's at least in part because I think the words "I love you" have become meaningless and hollow from overuse in cheesy, shallow movies and fiction, and I think that they are more often meant when they aren't said.

I agree, totally, that the words have become meaningless and hollow in movies. I don't think he necessarily meant to say those exact words so much as he wished he'd made sure Jack knew that he'd felt them.

Which is why, to drag in one of my favorite topics, I don't mind the idea of him saying it in the closet to the empty shirts. I know some people are repelled by this possibility -- over and above the question of whether they can detect him saying it or not -- because they see it as some maudlin capitulation to cinematic convention.

I don't, for two reasons: 1) If he does say it, it's not done in some big dramatic cliched sappy way, but in a way that's indescernible to 99.9999999 .... percent of the viewing audience, including those who've seen the movie dozens of times, and 2) If he does say it, he's saying it to an empty shirt, after years of not responding adequately to Jack's endearments, underscoring the hopelessness of his ever fully expressing his feelings to Jack. How poignant is that?

[nakymaton]

I know some people are repelled by this possibility -- over and above the question of whether they can detect him saying it or not -- because they see it as some maudlin capitulation to cinematic convention.

"Some people" = me. I'm not gonna give on this one, I'm afraid... it hits something too ingrained in me. In all seriousness, if I ever come to hear the "I love you," I may never be able to watch the movie again. I ain't foolin'. I still can't watch some of my other favorite movies because other fans have shown me things in them that I didn't want to see; I don't want to do that with this movie.

(Let be, let be.)

[serious crayons]

if I ever come to hear the "I love you," I may never be able to watch the movie again. I ain't foolin'.

(Let be, let be.)

OK, I'm sorry, Mel. I would never want to have any hand in that.  I promise to drop the subject -- with you, anyway -- from now on. (And I'd advise you to avert your eyes and pull out your headphone jack during the half-second between when he smells the shirts and when the scene shifts back to Mrs. Twist in the kitchen.)

[welliwont]

"Some people" = me. I'm not gonna give on this one, I'm afraid... it hits something too ingrained in me. In all seriousness, if I ever come to hear the "I love you," I may never be able to watch the movie again. I ain't foolin'. I still can't watch some of my other favorite movies because other fans have shown me things in them that I didn't want to see; I don't want to do that with this movie.

(Let be, let be.)

Not to worry Mel, there are very few people who actually hear that phantom line.  I think that some people hear what they want to hear, and that's fine, but it is highly improbable IMO for lots of reasons, that Ennis would ever say that line to shirts.  It was not in his character to do so, IMO.  And I think a lot of Brokies are in agreement here.

J

[dly64]

I agree, totally, that the words have become meaningless and hollow in movies. I don't think he necessarily meant to say those exact words so much as he wished he'd made sure Jack knew that he'd felt them.

Which is why, to drag in one of my favorite topics, I don't mind the idea of him saying it in the closet to the empty shirts. I know some people are repelled by this possibility -- over and above the question of whether they can detect him saying it or not -- because they see it as some maudlin capitulation to cinematic convention.

I don't, for two reasons: 1) If he does say it, it's not done in some big dramatic clichéd sappy way, but in a way that's indiscernible to 99.9999999 .... percent of the viewing audience, including those who've seen the movie dozens of times, and 2) If he does say it, he's saying it to an empty shirt, after years of not responding adequately to Jack's endearments, underscoring the hopelessness of his ever fully expressing his feelings to Jack. How poignant is that?

You did drag up one of those touchy subjects …didn't ya?!!  I am one who absolutely thinks that it is out of the character of Ennis to say “I love you” to the shirts. I have seen this film too many times to count and I have turned up the volume and watched his lips … he doesn’t say it! (I am sure there are those who think just as strongly as I that he did say it.)  IMO, Ennis says “love” one time in the entire film and that is when he asks Alma, Jr. if “this Kurt fella, he loves you?” That is a poignant moment because he realizes what could have been and what will never be. I see in Ennis’ expression a bitter longing, knowing that his one chance of happiness is gone.

Ennis *knows* without a doubt, in his heart, what Jack meant to him - that he loved him. But he doesn't know that Jack ever fully knew or was made to understand how deeply Ennis loved him, - the way Ennis never spoke up, the way he behaved, from punching Jack out to omitting any verbal response to the "Sometimes I miss you so much....."  to blaming Jack for making him a "no one". Ennis can only try to believe that despite his silences and fears and his constant holding back, what he did do was still enough, so that Jack *did* at one point experience the confirmation of Ennis's love for him without any doubts lingering and lurking, *did* believe all that Ennis "swears" to Jack after Jack is gone. It seems to me one of the worst regrets Ennis has to live with is that he never managed to tell Jack his feelings right out, loud and clear. Despite their relationship taking up and shaping Ennis's entire life - he never said the words, except indirectly, and as a part of a bitter accusation. Sure, he has to try to believe and hope that what he did do was somehow still enough - but there's a huge space of doubt between that and certainty.

I agree with what you are saying  …. Ennis doesn’t know if Jack realized how deeply he was loved. I think Ennis was also reeling from the possibility that Jack was going to take up with another man. Had Jack lived, would have Jack ended their relationship? Was Ennis’ lack of commitment (i.e. his unwillingness to make room for Jack in his ordinary life) too frustrating for Jack? This is something Ennis will never know … I am unsure if the audience is meant to know that, either. The romantic in me believes strongly that Jack did know that Ennis loved him and that Ennis understood Jack like no one else and vice versa. I also think that Ennis had hoped to take Jack’s ashes up on BBM so that when he (Ennis) died, he could have his own ashes spread there, too … and they could be together. (I know, I know … that is a bit of a pipe dream, but I enjoy thinking it anyway).

I'm astonished how many different interpretations people have for the last sentence of the book.
To be honest, I'm puzzled that there are different interpretations at all. Guess I shouldn't be (puzzled), since I'm aware of the ambiguity of both, book and movie.

I see the last sentence in connection with the two before:

"The spoon handle was the kind that could be used as a tire iron. And he would wake sometimes in grief, sometimes with the old sense of joy and release; the pillows sometimes wet, sometimes the sheets."

Both sentences refer to the mystery of Jack's death. Spoon handles which transform into tire irons in his dreams. "sometimes in grief": bad dreams about Jack being beaten to death (wet pillows). "sometimes with the old sense of joy and release": good (and hot) dreams about Jack (wet sheets).

So for me the last sentence is about Jack's death. Ennis knows that it has been murder, but what he wants to believe it that it was an accident.

I agree with some of what you are saying … but not everything. I am glad you quoted that line from the book … It is very telling. The primary thing I differ with is that “Ennis knows that it has been murder …” The film, screenplay and book are all ambiguous on this point. Ennis believes it has been murder … he doesn’t know. His first thought is that Jack was killed with a tire iron because that is how Earl was murdered. The very last paragraph in the short story is telling (and it also fits in with the “open space” outside the window.

“There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can’t fix it, you’ve got to stand it.”

[Brown Eyes]

Just bumping a good old thread!