Author Topic: Green with Envy  (Read 11284 times)

ruthlesslyunsentimental

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Green with Envy
« on: July 04, 2006, 03:07:01 pm »
Colors are used symbolically in the film and blue, brown, red, and white have been discussed at some length.  I haven’t seen much time devoted to green, which, to me, is one of the most significant colors in the film.  So, if you don’t mind, I’d like to offer my observations and a few twists that I have for the color scheme of Brokeback Mountain.

First, I should say that colors are obviously found everywhere since all things reflect light giving off a particular wavelength, etc., etc.  But here, I’m talking about the overt use and placement of color.  In many scenes, there is some color, but it’s pale and not prominent and then all of a sudden there’s an object that reeks of a particular color.  It is of this I speak.


Blue and brown (tan)

It seems universally acknowledged that blue is the color of Jack and brown (tan) is the color of Ennis.  These colors are apparent in their clothing – when worn by themselves, signifying themselves; when worn by the other, signifying keeping the other one close.

Jack is blue, as the vast expense of the blue sky which carries Jack’s spirit in the form of the wind.  Ennis is brown (tan), representing the color of land, of the earth where his spirit treads.

Everyone seems to agree on these ideas, so enough said.  (Besides I’m about to get really long-winded, so hang on.)


Green

Green is the other extremely dominant color in their lives.  When they are on the mountain, Jack (blue, sky) and Ennis (brown, land) come together in the natural trees, bushes and grasses (green) that grow from the land and reach up into the sky, moved by the wind. 

Green is the color of the natural relationship that exists between Jack and Ennis that formed as a force of nature.  Green ties Jack and Ennis together.

Throughout their time on the mountain, they are surrounded by green as their relationship begins as a friendship and grows to a natural, coupled relationship.  But as they come down from the mountain, there is less and less beautiful and obvious green until they finally part in a dusty parking space.  Soon after, when Ennis has his breakdown, he is framed as a silhouette with a backdrop of blue sky (Jack) and green foliage (their natural relationship).

Each goes on with his life, and green plays a small part.  Ennis marries Alma.  Significantly over their heads in a tri-color stained glass window.  Orange, white, and green.  The green in the stained glass window signifies that Ennis is taking the natural relationship he had with Jack and is transferring some of it to a new, unnatural relationship with Alma.  (I call it unnatural because it’s not what his relationship in life is supposed to be.)  Orange represents the falseness that has been transferred by Ennis of the green of his natural relationship.  (Yellow is Jack’s color of the falsity of the transfer.)  The white in the stained glass window is the color of death.  Mix the green relationship that Ennis falsely transferred (orange) and death of the relationship (white) will occur.

As marriage to Ennis goes on, Alma will have more green transferred to her.  For example, she wears a green smock for her job, her children wear green clothes at times.  But when Jack reappears, the green is covered or intermingled.  Just as Alma steps back into her kitchen after seeing Jack and Ennis playing tonsil hockey, there is a green can (about the size of a hat box) behind her under where the coats are hung.  It has bits of orange and yellow in it, signaling that the married relationships of Jack and Ennis have had green relationship falsely transferred to them.  After the reunion, Alma huffs off to work against Ennis’ protest.  She is wearing her green smock, but it is covered by a blue coat.  Jack’s presence is eclipsing the bit of relationship that Ennis transferred to her. In Ennis’ preparation for the “You’re late” scene there are several notable orange items and, of course, the orange horsey in their living room during their quiet evening of TV watching.  These signify that the relationship (green) that he transferred to Alma is false.

In Jack’s life, he transferred very little of his share of the green to Lureen – in the beginning.  There is a small green jardinière by Lureen in her bedroom scene.  Later, she has a few small potted plants in her office.  But very little green is transferred to Lureen until after the post-divorce scene, after Jack realizes his hopes for a relationship with Ennis are futile, when suddenly her living room at Thanksgiving has a much larger number of green plants in it.  Jack begins to transfer more of his share of the green of his relationship with Ennis to Lureen.  But it is false.  There was a little bit of yellow around Lureen in the beginning (the paper she holds in the parka scene) but by Thanksgiving, she has a bright yellow chair and several bright yellow cushions in her home, that now has more green in it.  Each time Jack left one of his trysts with Ennis, he left having gotten a bit more disillusioned about their relationship and he seems to work harder at his family relationships… more green is transferred, but it’s false, yellow.

By the time of Alma’s Thanksgiving Spectacular, Ennis’ loss of his share of the green has transferred to a new relationship that Alma builds with Monroe.  In a sense, Alma grabbed it away from Ennis -- she was probably green with envy of Ennis' relationship with Jack.  Alma, Jr. wears a green dress and the walls of the kitchen are green.  And later we see that there is a lot of green foliage outside her home with Monroe whereas there never was around either of her homes with Ennis.  Back to Thanksgiving -- Alma Sr.’s dress is now rust and there is a rust-tone to the entire scene.  The orange that was Ennis’ part in the falsity of the non-Jack relationship has done its job and has turned from orange to rust, as does Jack’s truck after this scene. 

Apart from each other, there is very little green around them, but when they’re together, there is a lot of green – out in the middle of nowhere where their colors of blue and brown can intermingle in the green foliage again.  However, as their relationship dwindles, so too the green.  In the post-divorce scene, Jack drives to Ennis along a road completely devoid of green.  All of the foliage is brown and dead.  Jack should have noticed.  Bad omen.  (But who can blame him?  After all, he is a potato.)

The next scene with the two of them is at the suspicious mind scene.  Here, again, much foliage.  But, what has changed?  Notice that in the previous scene of them in nature, the “you’re late scene,” there is a green cooler next to Jack.  In the suspicious mind scene, the cooler has changed to red… the color of death of the object.  Although there will always be green foliage metaphysically retaining the natural relationship of Ennis and Jack as it grows from the land into the sky, this object that Jack brought along, the cooler, is Jack’s hope for the relationship and it goes from green to red, symbolizing the dying of Jack’s hope for their relationship.

Also, the final lake scene starts at night when it’s dark and there is no green.  The next morning, they’re by a still lake with green foliage far off in the distance, but they’re standing in the middle of a dead parking area… just as they did when they parted at the end of their first summer.

After Jack has died, there is very little green around Ennis.  When he goes to the Twist home all of the foliage is dead and brown.  But there is a green bowl on the kitchen counter.  Note how it is prominently seen and prominently green AFTER Ennis finds the shirts, but not before.  It stands as a reminder that the relationship was not completely lost with Jack’s death.  (In fact, this is one of the best examples in the film of how an object is overtly made to exude its color only at a particular moment.)  And as he drives home from the Twist home, Ennis, in his truck, is suffused with an eerie green wash.  He is alone physically, but with Jack in spirit, and the relationship continues in full-screen green.  Immediately around Ennis’ trailer, it’s dry and dead, but off a little in the distance is tall green grass.  This is prominently and symbolically seen out of Ennis’ window at the very end – the final shot shows us blue (Jack), brown (Ennis), and their relationship (green) with Jack’s spirit (the wind) blowing over the relationship.


Red and white

Red with an object signifies a symbolic death or dying occurring for that object or for what it represents.  For example, Jack’s red vest on his blue shirt (and earlier covered by his blue parka) in the suspicious mind scene signifies the relationship dying for Jack -- this is their first scene together after Jack learned at the post-divorce scene that Ennis’ real reason for not living with Jack was his fear, not his marriage or children, or job.  Ennis’ tan with red lining vest at the swing set scene signifies the relationship dying for Ennis – this scene occurs immediately after Ennis put the big breaks on their relationship with the Earl death story.  And Ennis knows that it’s his fears that are his primary motivators for not having a life with Jack.  Jack doesn’t learn this until the post-divorce scene. 

White is the overt color symbolizing Jack’s death (the white truck, the coming snow).  I’ve seen a lot of agreement on these points, so I won’t elaborate.

However, there is a greater symbolism to when red and white come together.  When these two colors come together, there is a death brought about by Jack not tending to what he should be tending to.

Everyone seems to notice the symbolism in the death of the sheep (a white coated animal gutted to its red interior) and the parallel to Alma at the reunion kiss scene where she wears her white sweater over her red dress as if she’s been gutted.  And there seems to be an assumption that the focus is on Ennis.  However, this would not explain the red and white associated with Jack and Lureen’s meeting and the continuance of it with his truck.

No, the focus should be on Jack.  Who was supposed to be guarding the sheep the night the significant sheep died?  Jack.  He was set up as herder by Aguirre – like God setting the rules for the inhabitants of Eden – and it’s only because Jack and Ennis switched roles that Ennis is the one who rode off and found the dead sheep.  But Jack was supposed to have been the good shepherd and HE wasn’t doing his assigned job.  Similarly, when Alma is gutted, one could blame Ennis – after all, she’s his wife.  But the whole reunion occurred because Jack was not tending to what he was supposed to be tending to – his marriage relationship.

When Jack meets Lureen, it’s a veritable whirlwind of red and white colors.  Jack is the one (of the Ennis-Jack relationship) who understands and accepts himself more fully for what he is, gay.  When he meets Lureen, he brings a death not only to her (signified by her wearing of red and white), but also to himself by not being true to what and who his is – signified by his driving a red and white truck.  Jack didn’t tend to the most important thing that he should have, his own self.  And so he is bathed in red and white.


Two final notes –

Since I mentioned the blue parka above, it’s also interesting to note that Jack is looking for his blue parka to keep himself warm so he doesn’t freeze to death.  And Lureen hasn’t got his goddamn parka – she has no idea what will keep him warm, what will ward off his death (as signified by his being cold and the coming snow), nor does she seem to care.

And since I just mentioned Jack’s death, purple seems to be the pall that casts itself over his home signifying his impending death – blue (Jack) + red (death) = purple (Jack’s death).


So what have we learned?

Keep your relationships green, don’t mix red and white, and Jack is still a potato.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2006, 03:11:41 pm by ruthlesslyunsentimental »

Offline JennyC

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Re: Green with Envy
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2006, 09:12:22 pm »
Wow, I am blown away again by your "ruthlessly unsentimental" analysis.  I had to admit that I have not noticed the significance of the colors in the movie.  I will leave our more eloquent members to comment on your analysis.  Just want to say that I read it and really appreciate your insights.  Thanks for sharing this with us.

slayers_creek_oth

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Re: Green with Envy
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2006, 02:49:28 am »
Wow, I am blown away again by your "ruthlessly unsentimental" analysis.  I had to admit that I have not noticed the significance of the colors in the movie.  I will leave our more eloquent members to comment on your analysis.  Just want to say that I read it and really appreciate your insights.  Thanks for sharing this with us.

Ditto!  I am still processing your other post...LOL

ruthlesslyunsentimental

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Re: Green with Envy
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2006, 03:54:04 am »
Wow, I am blown away again by your "ruthlessly unsentimental" analysis.  I had to admit that I have not noticed the significance of the colors in the movie.  I will leave our more eloquent members to comment on your analysis.  Just want to say that I read it and really appreciate your insights.  Thanks for sharing this with us.

Anytime.  Thanks.  You’re very kind.  It's just that some things really seem to pop out of the film.  Like all of that red and white around Lureen and Jack when they first met.  It just screams out "figure this out!"  So, whenever I'm doing mundane things (like driving    :)   ) I think about these things.  Since I've seen the film somewhere around 150 times, I can play it over in my head and see just about everything again and again.

But!  Here's something that I hadn’t noticed at all until just earlier today...

When Ennis drives up to the Twist house, Mrs. Twist comes out the front door to greet him, right?  Just before she opens the door you can see her come and look out the window of the door before she opens it.  I don’t think it has any significance, but it's just another subtle detail that makes the film so realistic.  Others probably saw it on their first viewing.  There’s just so much to pick up in this movie, but never enough time.




Offline serious crayons

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Re: Green with Envy
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2006, 03:10:39 pm »
Ruthlessly, there are so many really interesting ideas here. I like your overall theory a lot.

I don't agree with every last tiny detail. Regarding some of the home furnishings, I hate to be one of those people who says this because I hate when people say this to me, but, well, some of them seem sort of incidental to me. I know, I know, nothing is incidental. But still ... Maybe that's just a sign of me only watching the movie 15 times to your 150. Early in my Brokeback career, I thought the same thing about all color symbolism, but eventually I wised up. So maybe I will change my mind again.

And I have different ideas about red and white (see below).

But as they come down from the mountain, there is less and less beautiful and obvious green until they finally part in a dusty parking space.

The least green scene of all must be the Earl flashback, hunh? The setting is completely arid and lifeless -- the force of nature is dead in that place.

Also, when Ennis rides away after TS1, he rides along a rockier, less green landscape than we see the rest of the time on Brokeback. Maybe because the relationship's viability is momentarily in question?

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Apart from each other, there is very little green around them, but when they’re together, there is a lot of green – out in the middle of nowhere where their colors of blue and brown can intermingle in the green foliage again.  However, as their relationship dwindles, so too the green.  In the post-divorce scene, Jack drives to Ennis along a road completely devoid of green.

One exception to the scarcity of green when they're apart: when Ennis is on the road crew, and he turns away from Timmy (after Timmy talks about breakin his back) and gazes off at all the green in the distance, thinking of his relationship with Jack. The tar-crew job -- Ennis' prospective bleak future sans Jack -- means, by definition, paving over (burying!) green.

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Also, the final lake scene starts at night when it’s dark and there is no green.  The next morning, they’re by a still lake with green foliage far off in the distance, but they’re standing in the middle of a dead parking area… just as they did when they parted at the end of their first summer.

Good one ... the idyllic green mountains do look pretty distant at that point.

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After Jack has died, there is very little green around Ennis.  When he goes to the Twist home all of the foliage is dead and brown.  But there is a green bowl on the kitchen counter.  Note how it is prominently seen and prominently green AFTER Ennis finds the shirts, but not before.  It stands as a reminder that the relationship was not completely lost with Jack’s death.

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This is prominently and symbolically seen out of Ennis’ window at the very end – the final shot shows us blue (Jack), brown (Ennis), and their relationship (green) with Jack’s spirit (the wind) blowing over the relationship.

The green bowl at the Twists is a home-furnishings interpretation that does sound very deliberate. And that's an excellent reading of the view outside Ennis' trailer window.

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Red with an object signifies a symbolic death or dying occurring for that object or for what it represents.  For example, Jack’s red vest on his blue shirt (and earlier covered by his blue parka) in the suspicious mind scene signifies the relationship dying for Jack -- this is their first scene together after Jack learned at the post-divorce scene that Ennis’ real reason for not living with Jack was his fear, not his marriage or children, or job.  Ennis’ tan with red lining vest at the swing set scene signifies the relationship dying for Ennis – this scene occurs immediately after Ennis put the big breaks on their relationship with the Earl death story.  And Ennis knows that it’s his fears that are his primary motivators for not having a life with Jack.  Jack doesn’t learn this until the post-divorce scene. 

White is the overt color symbolizing Jack’s death (the white truck, the coming snow).  I’ve seen a lot of agreement on these points, so I won’t elaborate.

Regarding red and white I have a somewhat different view. I think of red as representing passion and/or love, which is why spunky Lureen starts out bright red and progressively fades as the movie goes on and she becomes embittered. Alma wears dull reds in the reunion scene and Thanksgiving scene -- she's not as passionate a gal as Lureen, but it's there. Both the men's red-lined vests signify, to me, secret passion kept close to the heart. In the lakeside scene, Jack's parka is tan with a dark reddish-brown lining -- the passion has dulled a little, but it's still there, and it's still for Ennis.

White I'm less clear about. In the Twist's house, it certainly seems to allude to Jack's death. And I guess on the sheep. But otherwise white seems to me to warn of the end of a relationship. That would explain the white pickup (and perhaps, by extension, Alma's sweater in the reunion scene -- though in that case it would be her relationship with Ennis that's threatened).

Snow is a white form of water, their relationship. On their final night, Jack predicts snow -- suggesting the relationship will end. But then it doesn't snow. Things go on as they had, for now. But it's always so friggin cold when they're together that it could snow at any time. (If only they could go south, to Mexico or Texas, where snow is rare.)

BTWy, there's a red-and-white plaid shirt hanging in Ennis' closet at the end.

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Jack is looking for his blue parka to keep himself warm so he doesn’t freeze to death.  And Lureen hasn’t got his goddamn parka – she has no idea what will keep him warm, what will ward off his death (as signified by his being cold and the coming snow), nor does she seem to care.

That last remark seems a little unfair -- Lureen cares about as much as any wife should be expected to care about her husband's goddamn parka if he can't keep track of it himself. But you're right, it does suggest she has no power to ward off his death.

We haven't even gotten into gray -- Ennis' dad's jacket, Ennis jacket in the final scenes, the blackish/grayish blues that Jack wears post-divorce scene (and, interestingly, in the wood-chopping scene with Aguirre) -- but there's always enough time for that, always enough.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2006, 02:34:38 am by latjoreme »

ruthlesslyunsentimental

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Re: Green with Envy
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2006, 02:48:46 am »
I don't agree with every last tiny detail.

S’alright.


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Regarding some of the home furnishings, I hate to be one of those people who says this but, well, some of them seem sort of incidental to me. I know, I know, nothing is incidental.

When I bring up an object, I do it because it’s extremely prominently used or displayed one time (e.g., the little cowboy figurine in Jack’s room), OR because it’s prominently used or displayed several times (e.g., knives) OR because its color jumps out of the screen as opposed to other objects in the same scene (e.g., the green bowl in the Twist home).  I try really hard to not bring up objects that don’t somehow ask to be noticed.


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The least green scene of all must be the Earl flashback, hunh? The setting is completely arid and lifeless -- the force of nature is dead in that place.

Also, when Ennis rides away after TS1, he rides along a rockier, less green landscape than we see the rest of the time on Brokeback. Maybe because the relationship's viability is momentarily in question?

Because I believe the green=relationship theory, I agree.  The Earl flashback scene is a great scene juxtaposing Earl’s and Rich’s relationship with that of Jack and Ennis.


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One exception to the scarcity of green when they're apart: when Ennis is on the road crew, and he turns away from Timmy (after Timmy talks about breakin his back) and gazes off at all the green in the distance, thinking of his relationship with Jack. The tar-crew job -- the prospects for Ennis' bleak future sans Jack -- means, by definition, paving over green.

Actually, I think you make a good point for this scene supporting the green=relationship theory.

I also view this scene as linked to the two other significant appearances of pavement.  Yes, there are paved roads everywhere in the film, but only 3 significant appearances of pavement:

First, the tar scene – Ennis is on the pavement, and the man’s comments evoke Brokeback, raising a suspicion in Ennis about people knowing.  Second, the post-Thanksgiving fight scene – Ennis is pummeled down to and on the pavement immediately after Alma did her best to make sure that that was a Thanksgiving Ennis would remember – again, suspicion.  Third, the suspicious mind scene – Ennis’ suspicions about people knowing have magnified across these scenes so much so that he displays actual paranoia in his question for Jack about going to town and then out on the pavement.  He should stick to dirt roads…


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The green bowl at the Twists is a home-furnishings interpretation I think I do agree with.

It just screams out to be noticed.  Nothing else in the house pops in color like that bowl.  In fact, it, like the orange horsey and the orange blanket (?) in Ennis’ Riverton apartment seem to have been colorized in final production. 



I re-read your comments about red and white and then I read my original comments and I tried to put your view into what I wrote.  Some of it certainly fits.  But here are some sticky wickets for me:

If an object or color is significant, I try to relate its significance to how it’s used, how it’s seen, what’s happening, what has just happened, or what is about to happen.

With the two vests, I can see Ennis’ vest fitting with passion, because of its following the ear rub of the reunion river scene.  But, then it also fits with death or dying, for the same reason.  As to Jack’s vest, why, in particular, would it be displaying passion in this scene?  Just to display passion or because it’s linked to something else?  I can’t find the link when it comes to passion.  Also, the cooler has changed from green to red.  In the death or dying theory, the green relationship cooler has changed to a symbol of the dying relationship.  In the passion theory, it doesn’t seem to connect with the green cooler used before.  See, I think the cooler is an important prop because it changed color from its first appearance to its second.  Had the cooler first appeared as green in the river reunion scene and then changed to red for the “you’re late” scene, then I could see it as the green relationship being infused with passion since this scene exemplifies both of them being comfortable with the new rules of their relationship as set up in the river reunion scene.

Also, concerning red alone, there are several notable blood scenes.  Ennis’ head wound – I don’t see passion here, I see Jack being disappointed.  He gave a loving, healing gesture to Jack and the blood red killed that off with Ennis’ refusal to allow it.  Earl’s crotch in the flashback – I don’t want to speculate on a passion connection here (sorry!); but, the red=death or dying seems to fit.  The blood on the shirts – the blood came out of Ennis.  The death/dying theory seems to fit.  It was immediately before this that Ennis was most open, most vulnerable, most content, most … everything good.  His blood symbolizes his death or dying – emotionally.  Just as Jack began his death at the post-divorce scene, Ennis began his on that last day on the mountain.  Again, not either of their physical deaths, but a death of, well, their passion.  The shirts strongly represent the union of Jack and Ennis (spiritually, metaphysically, friends, lovers, the whole shebang) so when Ennis wiped his blood on the shirts (Jack helped him, of course), he permanently etched his emotional death onto their relationship.  And it stayed there until it was too late.  (Jack really should have washed those shirts, I guess.)

Besides, there are a number of other examples of various levels of passion occurring for or between certain characters that do not seem to have any red around symbolically.  Also, note Mrs. Twist’s hair.  It almost makes her look like a dyed-hair woman.  Her hair color doesn’t seem to have anything to do with passion, but it does seem to have to do with her death -- on an emotional level, again, living her life in that white house with Old Man Twist.  (Boy, I sure hope Ennis visited that sweet, needful old lady again… if I ever find out he didn’t, I’m gonna kick his ignorant ass into next week!)

You mentioned red with Lureen and her passion, dull red with Alma and her not being as passionate.  The problem I have with this is that Lureen’s red is not just red.  It’s red and white.  I mean A LOT of red and white.  Same with Alma at the reunion kiss scene.  Same with the dead sheep.  Taking red for passion and white as an end to the relationship, I can see it with Lureen (as foreshadowing) and Alma, but not with the sheep.  The sheep is directly connected to the FNIT.  The FNIT wasn’t really so much about passion as it was lust.  And, the relationship didn’t experience any death through the FNIT or the sheep; rather, it got significantly better immediately after the dead sheep scene, turning to gentle love.

Also, Jack’s red and white truck makes its first appearance when Jack wasn’t tending to his (or Ennis’) marriage, not at a time when passion and the end of their relationship were mingled.  Here, their relationship burst into a new expression of itself which they were content with for a good number of years.

As far as white on its own, re-reading everything you and I each wrote, I can see how either works.  But, it’s that obvious and repeated pairing of red and white that doesn’t seem to add up if red=passion and white=the end of a relationship.


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Incidentally, there's a red-and-white plaid shirt hanging in Ennis' closet at the end.

Yes.  I’ve noticed this and I forgot to include it in my original post.  I do think it’s significant that it’s a shirt that is red and white, right next to THE shirts.  Applying my theory, Jack not tending to the relationship (symbolized by THE shirts) brought about a death or dying in the relationship.  I believe this applies well, especially when you take THE shirts back to BBM, back to the fight scene.  The relationship began its death because Jack didn’t take the lead as he was always supposed to do.  This, as you know, I’ve covered in another one of my threads.


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That last remark seems a little unfair -- Lureen cares about as much as any wife should be expected to care about her husband's goddamn parka if he can't keep track of it himself. But you're right, it does suggest she has no power to ward off his death.

Yes, you’re right.  Re-reading it, it was unfair and untrue.  I do believe that Lureen loved Jack and that her love would not have diminished had Jack actually been there emotionally.  He “loved” Lureen, but I don’t think he was ever really “in love” with Lureen.

Twenty lashes for me with a raw, limp slab of elk flesh.


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We haven't even gotten into gray -- Ennis' dad's jacket, Ennis jacket in the final scenes, the blackish/grayish blues that Jack wears post-divorce scene (and, interestingly, in the wood-chopping scene with Aguirre) -- but there's always enough time for that, always enough time.

I didn’t bring this up because I thought it would be more appropriate in a thread about clothing.  And there are some good, juicy morsels lurking out there for a thread on clothing.

As ALWAYS, it’s been a pleasure!




Oops!  One last thing I forgot and then remembered...

The appearance of the Jolly Green Giant in the supermarket scene.  He stands out like a sore thumb.  An indication that while Ennis has transferred some of his relationship to Alma (her smock), his relationship with Jack is looming large above and near him.  It's right after this that Jack and Lureen have their big homecoming for beautiful baby boy Bobby, where "rodeo" drops the keys thrown to him to get him out of the "real" Newsome family causing Jack to send the postcard, seen in the next scene where Ennis of the sea sees what we seen seemingly in the previous scene.  Sorry, I got a bad case of the always asinine alliteration affliction...

« Last Edit: July 06, 2006, 04:03:32 am by ruthlesslyunsentimental »

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Green with Envy
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2006, 03:53:47 pm »
When I bring up an object, I do it because it’s extremely prominently used or displayed one time (e.g., the little cowboy figurine in Jack’s room), OR because it’s prominently used or displayed several times (e.g., knives) OR because its color jumps out of the screen as opposed to other objects in the same scene (e.g., the green bowl in the Twist home).  I try really hard to not bring up objects that don’t somehow ask to be noticed.

I know. And I just absolutely hate it when people respond to my theories -- as many do! -- with "sometimes a (something) is just a (something)." I hate it because, IMO, with all due respect, those people are wrong, wrong, wrong. ( ;)) And also because I think they're depriving themselves of a whole level of appreciation of the movie.

That said, I have trouble overhauling my whole theoretical structure on the basis of a detail I hardly noticed, like the changing cooler, or the fact that the blood is red instead of some other color. But I'm willing to consider the possibility that this just reflects the stage of my Brokeback development, and that at some later point I'll come to think of these points as being as obvious as Jack=blue and Ennis=tan. I don't mean to sound dismissive of your ideas.

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latjoreme: One exception to the scarcity of green when they're apart: when Ennis is on the road crew, and he turns away from Timmy (after Timmy talks about breakin his back) and gazes off at all the green in the distance, thinking of his relationship with Jack. The tar-crew job -- the prospects for Ennis' bleak future sans Jack -- means, by definition, paving over green.

ruthlessly: Actually, I think you make a good point for this scene supporting the green=relationship theory.

Yeah, that's what I meant! I was citing it as further evidence for your theory -- in fact, it's sort of an exception that proves the rule.

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the man’s comments evoke Brokeback, raising a suspicion in Ennis about people knowing.

I don't see this that way. I think he's thinking longingly of Jack, and of his bleak future sans Jack.

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Third, the suspicious mind scene – Ennis’ suspicions about people knowing have magnified across these scenes so much so that he displays actual paranoia in his question for Jack about going to town and then out on the pavement.

Excellent catch. I'd always thought that his use of the word "pavement" rather than "street" calls attention to itself.

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As to Jack’s vest, why, in particular, would it be displaying passion in this scene?  Just to display passion or because it’s linked to something else?  I can’t find the link when it comes to passion.

Well, first, I guess looking back I see that you clearly referred to Jack's vest in the "suspicious minds" scene. But somehow I was thinking of Jack's vest in the reunion scene -- which I guess is not actually red-lined, but is worn over an uncharacteristically red shirt.

Second, I guess I'm not very concrete about what I mean by passion, maybe because, IMO, the filmmakers weren't being particularly concrete, either. I'm referring not necessarily to passion displayed in that exact scene or passion in its most literal sense, but passion in the vaguer sense of longing, or love. Like a "carrying a torch" sort of passion. I'll just call it passion for short, though (you got a better idea?). So to me the fact that Ennis comes to the reunion wearing a Jack-striped shirt and Jack arrives in a passion-colored shirt under an Ennis-colored vest feels significant. Back to suspicious minds, it seems possible that Jack is wearing a passion- (or love-) colored vest when he's giving one more shot to the sweet-life idea.

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Also, the cooler has changed from green to red.  In the death or dying theory, the green relationship cooler has changed to a symbol of the dying relationship.  In the passion theory, it doesn’t seem to connect with the green cooler used before.  See, I think the cooler is an important prop because it changed color from its first appearance to its second.

See, my problem here is that I hadn't noticed the cooler, period ( ::)). So it's hard for me to put a lot of weight in the possible metaphoric meaning of a prop I'd never even seen (though it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong about that).

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Also, concerning red alone, there are several notable blood scenes.  Ennis’ head wound – I don’t see passion here, I see Jack being disappointed.  He gave a loving, healing gesture to Jack and the blood red killed that off with Ennis’ refusal to allow it.  Earl’s crotch in the flashback – I don’t want to speculate on a passion connection here (sorry!); but, the red=death or dying seems to fit.  The blood on the shirts – the blood came out of Ennis.  The death/dying theory seems to fit.  It was immediately before this that Ennis was most open, most vulnerable, most content, most … everything good.  His blood symbolizes his death or dying – emotionally.  Just as Jack began his death at the post-divorce scene, Ennis began his on that last day on the mountain.  Again, not either of their physical deaths, but a death of, well, their passion.  The shirts strongly represent the union of Jack and Ennis (spiritually, metaphysically, friends, lovers, the whole shebang) so when Ennis wiped his blood on the shirts (Jack helped him, of course), he permanently etched his emotional death onto their relationship.  And it stayed there until it was too late.

It's hard for me to read much significance into the fact that the filmmakers didn't make the blood some other color. Same, BTW, with the sheep. What else are they going to do?

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Also, note Mrs. Twist’s hair.  It almost makes her look like a dyed-hair woman.  Her hair color doesn’t seem to have anything to do with passion, but it does seem to have to do with her death -- on an emotional level, again, living her life in that white house with Old Man Twist.

But isn't her hair dye more brown? (So maybe it suggests her empathy for Ennis! ;D) Also, it seems unnecessary to include metaphors explaining the relationship between the Twists, one because it's off topic and two because it's pretty clear what their relationship is like.

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You mentioned red with Lureen and her passion, dull red with Alma and her not being as passionate.  The problem I have with this is that Lureen’s red is not just red.  It’s red and white.  I mean A LOT of red and white.  Same with Alma at the reunion kiss scene.  Same with the dead sheep.  Taking red for passion and white as an end to the relationship, I can see it with Lureen (as foreshadowing) and Alma, but not with the sheep.  The sheep is directly connected to the FNIT.  The FNIT wasn’t really so much about passion as it was lust.  And, the relationship didn’t experience any death through the FNIT or the sheep; rather, it got significantly better immediately after the dead sheep scene, turning to gentle love.

Hmm ... how about, red and white together equals passion mixed with foreshadowing of an ending. White clearly signals endings in reference to Jack and Ennis. So Lureen is passionate, but the end of her relationship is in sight. Alma is a bit less passionate, and in the reunion scene the end of her relationshp is covering up the red. (And in the Thanksgiving scene -- a new, though dull, passion, but no white). (Incidentally, I love how often Alma is shown in light blue -- particularly noticable in the bedroom scene -- she's a pale imitation of Jack.)

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Also, Jack’s red and white truck makes its first appearance when Jack wasn’t tending to his (or Ennis’) marriage, not at a time when passion and the end of their relationship were mingled.  Here, their relationship burst into a new expression of itself which they were content with for a good number of years.

Well, the passion is there, but the end is foreshadowed.

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Incidentally, there's a red-and-white plaid shirt hanging in Ennis' closet at the end.

Yes.  I’ve noticed this and I forgot to include it in my original post.  I do think it’s significant that it’s a shirt that is red and white, right next to THE shirts.  Applying my theory, Jack not tending to the relationship (symbolized by THE shirts) brought about a death or dying in the relationship.  I believe this applies well, especially when you take THE shirts back to BBM, back to the fight scene.  The relationship began its death because Jack didn’t take the lead as he was always supposed to do.  This, as you know, I’ve covered in another one of my threads.

I have trouble basing one theoretical idea on another, possibly disputed, theory. In other words, to say that a shirt is red because we know that Jack didn't take the lead as he was supposed to. Besides, I think this fits my interpretation, too:  In Ennis' closet, the passion and the ending are mingled.

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I didn’t bring this up because I thought it would be more appropriate in a thread about clothing.  And there are some good, juicy morsels lurking out there for a thread on clothing.

Well then I suggest you start one, pronto! Or resurrect one of these older threads:

"Black hats, white hats"

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=1266.0


or

"Color coordination"

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=1247.msg25606#msg25606

I would love to hear your views on gray and black. To me, those are the colors that equal death -- the equivalent of your red and white, I guess.

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As ALWAYS, it’s been a pleasure!

For me, too!

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The appearance of the Jolly Green Giant in the supermarket scene.  He stands out like a sore thumb.  An indication that while Ennis has transferred some of his relationship to Alma (her smock), his relationship with Jack is looming large above and near him.

Good one! I won't dispute the Giant.

ruthlesslyunsentimental

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Re: Green with Envy
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2006, 04:39:27 pm »
And I just absolutely hate it when people respond to my theories -- as many do! -- with "sometimes a (something) is just a (something)." I hate it because, IMO, with all due respect, those people are wrong, wrong, wrong. ( ;)) And also because I think they're depriving themselves of a whole level of appreciation of the movie.

Amen to that!

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I don't mean to sound dismissive of your ideas.

You never do sound dismissive.  It’s all about argument and counterargument and evidence and theories and maybe even finding common ground.  I love the back and forth stuff.


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I don't see this that way. I think he's thinking longingly of Jack, and of his bleak future sans Jack.

Right.  And I don’t mean to discount this.  But I think there are several things all going on at once.  The pavement theory is more on the metaphoric level while I think you’ve got the sub-text level.


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I'd always thought that his use of the word "pavement" rather than "street" calls attention to itself.

Exactly.  It’s one of those words that just jumps out at a person.  When have you ever heard someone phrase something like that?  I never have.  “I was out on the pavement one day…”  huh?


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…maybe because, IMO, the filmmakers weren't being particularly concrete, either.

That’s the beauty of metaphor and symbolism.  We can rake it over the tar for hours.


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I'll just call it passion for short, though (you got a better idea?).

I did once.  (Now what am *I* talking about here?    :laugh:   )


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So it's hard for me to put a lot of weight in the possible metaphoric meaning of a prop I'd never even seen…

Well, there’s a first time for everything.  As I said elsewhere, I didn’t catch Mrs. Twist looking out her door window to see who was there before actually opening the door.  Small, subtle detail lost on me for 150 viewings.  It must have been the beans!


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It's hard for me to read much significance into the fact that the filmmakers didn't make the blood some other color. Same, BTW, with the sheep. What else are they going to do?

But, they did make sure we saw it.  It didn’t have to be a gutted sheep.  It could have been lightning again this year.  And, there are only so many appearances of blood.  Ennis could have sprained his ankle and Jack could have offered a foot rub or to prop Ennis’ foot up on a log, and Ennis could have responded the same way.  But they chose blood -- five times.  They didn’t show us Ennis’ blood when he was attacked on the pavement, nor did they show us biker blood.  But they did show us Ennis’ blood after the bear, sheep blood, Ennis’ blood at the fight scene, Earl’s blood, and Jack’s blood in the tire iron scene.  We never saw Jack bleed when he was thrown from two different bulls.  Blood makes its bloody appearance at very specific moments.


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But isn't her hair dye more brown?

It looks really red to me, especially in the close-up after she’s packed the shirts.


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Also, it seems unnecessary to include metaphors explaining the relationship between the Twists, one because it's off topic and two because it's pretty clear what their relationship is like.

Well, it’s not off the topic of the significance of the color red.  Also, to follow the reasoning of your second reason, it’s pretty clear to us throughout the movie how Jack and Ennis each feel so why would the filmmakers feel they need to throw in a color (red) to show us how they feel (passion)?


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Hmm ... how about, red and white together equals passion mixed with foreshadowing of an ending.

As much as I’m looking for common ground, I still don’t think it takes into account the other things I mentioned, imho.


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Incidentally, I love how often Alma is shown in light blue -- particularly noticable in the bedroom scene -- she's a pale imitation of Jack.[

Exactly.  And when she storms away from Ennis in her green smock (relationship) covered by the blue coat (Jack), Ennis must be thinking, “Jack would never storm away from me with our relationship!”  Hmmmm, could be true, could be irony.


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Good one! I won't dispute the Giant.

Good thing.  NO ONE disputes the Jolly Green Giant.  If one tried, Mr. Jolly wouldn’t stay that way for long.



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Re: Green with Envy
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2006, 04:58:30 pm »
Well, how would you feel about the idea of red signifying something like life-force, instead of death or passion? To me, clearly white denotes death (this is the Asian tradition) and there are several various meanings for red. Actually, red usually indicates happiness or prosperity, but Lee has something different in mind for this movie. I also noted the red-lined vest Ennis was wearing when he "kicks the bucket" in the swingset scene, and the red vest Jack wears when he returns to the trailer to sign up for a third year of work. Red in those instances definitely didn't represent death to me as the reunion had just occurred in the former case, and hadn't happened yet in the latter case.

But I have to agree with you, Ruth, about Ma Twist's hair, it is really red.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

ruthlesslyunsentimental

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Re: Green with Envy
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2006, 05:20:42 pm »
Well, how would you feel about the idea of red signifying something like life-force, ... the red vest Jack wears when he returns to the trailer to sign up for a third year of work. Red in those instances definitely didn't represent death to me as the reunion had just occurred in the former case, and hadn't happened yet in the latter case.

I can't really see a connection with life-force and red in the Aguirre trailer scene.  Besides, it seems wind is Jack's life force -- e.g., "look what the wind blew in" and the fan spinning on Jack’s entrance -- almost as if he was controlling the weather.

I don't think red means death or dying of the relationship (that would be red and green).  It does seem to represent a death or dying process of the object of attention.  In the Aguirre trailer, Jack's spirit experiences a death when Aguirre makes it clear that he saw them doing ... well, YOU know! ... up on the mountain and that he doesn't approve.  So much so that even though Aguirre hired Jack back for a second summer after the sheep loss of the first summer, Aguirre won’t hire Jack back for a third summer because of the coupling of two years worth of sheep loss plus Jack not tending to his duties, stemmin' the rose instead.

In the scene with Ennis kicking the bucket, the death or dying represented is about the relationship because this is immediately after Ennis put a big downer on Jack's suggestion for a full life together and Alma is wearing her green smock (relationship), covered in blue (Jack) walking away from Ennis.  I can also see it represent a death or dying of Ennis' spirit because of this happening immediately after the river reunion scene and Ennis dismissing Jack's suggestion.


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But I have to agree with you, Ruth, about Ma Twist's hair, it is really red.

So you know a dyed-hair woman too, huh?