How Did Ennis Vote?

[Kerry]

How Did Ennis Vote?

Ennis was 19 when he and Jack met in 1963. That would make him 64 now. How do you think he voted in the recent U.S. election? Tell us why you think he chose to vote that way. When responding, kindly bear in mind that this is the friendly Polling Place, moderated by our sweet-natured buddy, David. Out of respect for David (and Ennis!), let's all be nice to each other here. Enjoy the poll!

[Monika]

I feel pretty sure that he didn´t vote at all so I picked that option. If he had been forced to, though, I think he would have voted republican given the fact where he lived and that one of his character traits is fear. He would have voted on what was familiar to him.

[Lynne]

I also chose the option that Ennis did not vote.

During his years with Jack, '[they] could hunt in November' which leaves me with the sense that he would be focused on his personal issues and not worried overmuch about national politics. (Truman gets credit for this idea.)

As Ennis aged, if he were even still alive in 2008, I cannot envision him as a man with interests extending much beyond his day-to-day existence.  I would guess he'd feel so estranged from his fellow man (those on the 'pavement') that he would not even consider that his point of view would be valid.

 

[Monika]

I also chose the option that Ennis did not vote.

During his years with Jack, '[they] could hunt in November' which leaves me with the sense that he would be focused on his personal issues and not worried overmuch about national politics. (Truman gets credit for this idea.)

good one and probably very true, Lynne and Truman

[Kerry]

I voted "Did not vote." I don't see Ennis as a particularly political kinda fella. I believe he would consider his ranch duties and the stock in his care to be vastly more important than mere politics!     

If, however, voting was compulsory in America, as it is in Australia, where I live, I feel Ennis would probably have voted Republican. Why? I guess because of his rural Wyoming roots and conservative outlook.

    {{{ ENNIS }}}   

[serious crayons]

I also went with "did not vote." I don't think of Ennis as paying much attention to politics.

If he had voted, I'm sure he'd vote Republican, because he's a conformist and most people around him would be Republicans. Also, I don't like to think about the famous deleted "hippie scene," but his behavior in that scene was pretty conservative.

Good idea for a poll, Kerry. How about a parallel one about Jack? From what I've seen, there may be more controversy regarding his political views.

[Brown Eyes]

I think he would vote Democratic. I think he was more "liberal" than his public persona let on.  In the privacy of a voting booth, I think that would come out.  I think based on his lack of interest in religion and the "fire and brimstone" crowd, he would be put off by a lot of aspects of at least the current Republican base.  And, I think the idea of war and the military scares him, especially when it comes to risks to Jack.  So, I think he'd be more likely to vote for a slightly more pacifist oriented party.

**note** I'm thinking about the current state of the current parties.  It's hard for me to imagine all the nuances of the differences between Republicans and Democrats in the 60s, 70s and early 80s (since I was born in 75).

[Mikaela]

I voted for "did not vote".  (That sounds a bit strange).

Like others have expressed very well already, I can't imagine he'd be much interested in politics and nationwide events - except for rolling his eyes at what he saw on his little TV screen now and then. He'd probably shrug and pronounce them "all the same kind" when national politics were concerned, and not get involved beyond that. Like most fellow Wyoming rural men, I should think his leanings were by and large Republican, - but I think Amanda makes a good case for him being a closeted Democrat, too!

[serious crayons]

Amanda makes a good case for him being a closeted Democrat, too!

Maybe in the same way that he was gay but couldn't admit it even to himself, he was really a Democrat but couldn't admit it even to himself! 

[Mikaela]

Well, that would indicate he actually did go into that voting booth ever four f**ing years! 

[serious crayons]

Well, that would indicate he actually did go into that voting booth ever four f**ing years! 

 

[Kerry]

I also went with "did not vote." I don't think of Ennis as paying much attention to politics.

If he had voted, I'm sure he'd vote Republican, because he's a conformist and most people around him would be Republicans. Also, I don't like to think about the famous deleted "hippie scene," but his behavior in that scene was pretty conservative.

Good idea for a poll, Kerry. How about a parallel one about Jack? From what I've seen, there may be more controversy regarding his political views.

My first draft of the introductory blurb commenced, "Ennis was 19 when he and Jack met in 1963. That would make him 64 now (Jack having died back in the early 1980s). How do you think Ennis voted in the recent U.S. election?"

It initially cross my mind to hypothetically include Jack, but I decided against it because I wanted to keep the poll simple and straightforward.

Perhaps another poll could be started, titled, "If Jack had lived, how would he have voted?"

[Kerry]

I also chose the option that Ennis did not vote.

During his years with Jack, '[they] could hunt in November' which leaves me with the sense that he would be focused on his personal issues and not worried overmuch about national politics. (Truman gets credit for this idea.)

As Ennis aged, if he were even still alive in 2008, I cannot envision him as a man with interests extending much beyond his day-to-day existence.  I would guess he'd feel so estranged from his fellow man (those on the 'pavement') that he would not even consider that his point of view would be valid.

 

  Yikes, Lynne, I'm only 5 years behind Ennis in age, and I plan on living at least  another 40 years!!!  Granted, I've never smoked!     

[serious crayons]

Perhaps another poll could be started, titled, "If Jack had lived, how would he have voted?"

Well, that's what I meant. A whole 'nother poll.

Yikes, Lynne, I'm only 5 years behind Ennis in age, and I plan on living at least  another 40 years!!!  Granted, I've never smoked!    

Something about Ennis at the end of the movie/story does not suggest longevity.

[ifyoucantfixit]

    I think he may have voted.  I think he would have voted Republican though.  Most of the people in Wyoming
are Republicans and voted that way in the election. 
    He wasnt interested in some of the things that the right wing nuts are.  However I see hm as still a very
conservative person.  He believed in the conservative values, as a whole.  JMO

[David In Indy]

I really don't think Ennis would have voted. Who knows though? It's hard to tell what may have happened to him between the 1980s and now. Assuming he stayed pretty much the same, then I doubt he would have voted. Ennis made it a point to stay disconnected from the world after Jack died. If he did vote though, he definately would have voted Republican. I think Ennis probably would have been both a social conservative and a Republican. Remember one does not need to be a Republican in order to be conservative. However, with Ennis, I think this probably would have been the case.

Edit: Another thought just occured to me:

If Ennis had decided to move to the city for any reason, I think he probably would have taken a job in one of the Unions. If something like that happened, he would have voted Democratic. But he'd definately STILL be a conservative.

[Lynne]

I would be interested in understanding the differences between the Republican Party in the 60s and the 2008 version.  I stand by my vote that Ennis probably would not have voted, which I posted earlier.  But based on the 'fire and brimstone crowd' comment, I think he would have little patience with today's version of the Republican Party.

[serious crayons]

Ennis might have had the opportunity to vote for Barry Goldwater. He was 19 in June of '63, but could have turned 20 before November, which would make him 21 (the legal voting age at the time) by November 1964, when Goldwater ran against Johnson.

If so, he'd probably be surprised in recent years to see Goldwater emerge as an outspoken advocate for gay rights!

[Artiste]

Ennis would difinately vote, but firstly hear:
What a difference a day makes ! - ?

[Artiste]

Could Ennis have voted for BOTH parties?

[serious crayons]

Could Ennis have voted for BOTH parties?

Not for the same office in the same election.

[brokeplex]

"How Did Ennis Vote?" or Jack or Alma or Lureen, etc?

I am curious why is this (ese) question(s) interesting? 

I have read some interesting speculations on this thread, but the reasons for the question interests me far more than the answer.

[serious crayons]

I have read some interesting speculations on this thread, but the reasons for the question interests me far more than the answer.

Seems like you answer your own question -- it's fun to speculate. The forum is full of these sorts of threads.

Personally, I'm not super fond of really far-reaching speculation: "If Ennis had accepted Jack's offer and they had gone to help out at the Twist ranch, would they have lived in the same house with the Twists and eaten their meals with them, and who would have done the dishes?" That kind of thing. For me, there's just not enough to go on to form sound opinions.

But as you see, there ARE some jumping-off points for speculation about Ennis' politics. And they're interesting for what they reveal about the movie and about Brokies' own ideas.

[Artiste]

Merci brokeplex!

As Ennis and Jack tried to vary their lives, so why not pose how Ennis would have maybe voted??

Maybe, Ennis would have considered voting for a party which was pro-gay, permiitting gay mariages and others civil rights ?

Answers from you and all, I'll consider interesting !


Au revoir,
hugs!

[Monika]

And they're interesting for what they reveal about the movie and about Brokies' own ideas.

I find this to be very true. It reveals a lot about how we view the characters. And it´s not a far fetched question. BBM, to me, is a movie with a message that to a certain extent also is political.

would be interesting to also discuss how Jack may have voted (or if he did at all). Maybe a new poll?

[Artiste]

It's about time that someone seconds me like you do on this:

Brokeback Mountain (also)       is a movie with a message that to a certain extent also is political              !

That is what I was saying all along... since the USA, etc., the World is changing too much negatively becoming anti-gay, anti-females, educated,, anti-freedom for free persons... since slavery is becoming norm ?

And others say too, somewhat ?


Au revoir,
hugs!

[brokeplex]

Seems like you answer your own question -- it's fun to speculate. The forum is full of these sorts of threads.

Personally, I'm not super fond of really far-reaching speculation: "If Ennis had accepted Jack's offer and they had gone to help out at the Twist ranch, would they have lived in the same house with the Twists and eaten their meals with them, and who would have done the dishes?" That kind of thing. For me, there's just not enough to go on to form sound opinions.

But as you see, there ARE some jumping-off points for speculation about Ennis' politics. And they're interesting for what they reveal about the movie and about Brokies' own ideas.

ok, but speculate with more than hunches.

a profile of Ennis, or Jack, Alma, Lureen can tell us more about how they might have voted in an election.

1) demographic profiles are a good start: income level, race, ethnicity, degree of religiosity, occupation, level of education

2) then throw in hunches based upon our knowledge of Ennis' attitudes from the dialog:

for the 2008 election what would Ennis opinion of : same sex marriage, affirmative action, welfare, the war in Iraq, terrorism, the economic downturn, etc. ?

then you can put together a profile of Ennis or any of the characters for any election which they might have voted in, as someone said, probably starting with 1964

I would for the sake of diversity assume Jack did not die in 1983 and he also voted, because he and Lureen are the most likely of the main characters to be registered to vote, so I don't like throwing that character out of the mix.

I would also add Aguirre, OMT and wife, Newsom and wife, and the Malones.

how would they vote based upon what we can fathom of their demographic profiles and hunches about their opinions?

[Artiste]

Merci brokeplex !

Interesting is your post!

Your views, some or one what would maybe or surely Ennis would have voted for ?


Au revoir,
hugs!

[serious crayons]

ok, but speculate with more than hunches.

a profile of Ennis, or Jack, Alma, Lureen can tell us more about how they might have voted in an election.

1) demographic profiles are a good start: income level, race, ethnicity, degree of religiosity, occupation, level of education

2) then throw in hunches based upon our knowledge of Ennis' attitudes from the dialog:

for the 2008 election what would Ennis opinion of : same sex marriage, affirmative action, welfare, the war in Iraq, terrorism, the economic downturn, etc. ?

... how would they vote based upon what we can fathom of their demographic profiles and hunches about their opinions?

If you read back on the posts, I think you'll see that that is a pretty good description of what people have done.

[ifyoucantfixit]

      There is an opinion that I can share, since I am closest in age to Jack and Ennis probably. 
I first registered to vote and voted in the 60's.  I registered Republican, because I didnt really
know about the difference that much.  I changed my party affiliation however before I voted for
President the first time.  Because of Calif at the time having a six week registration period required
before election date.  I didnt get to vote for JFK whom I had worked and prayed for his election.
  I was one week too young to do that.  But I can say that the Republican party and the democratic
party were almost completely different then from what they are these days.  There was no talk at all of a gay agendas on either
of the national parties.  They were both pretty conservative religiously, but not near so strident and
open in their right wing agendas.  That pretty much started during the Bob Dole, Newt Gingrich
era.  They were the forerunners of the religious, right wing nut section and division of the parties.
Before that it was only the occasional wing nut in congress like the infamous McCarthy, or his
ilk. 
   But the country was pretty conservative financially and militarily.  Eisenhower was a typical
type American.  He too was a financial conservative, as was Reagan, and all the Republicans that
I have remembered in office.  Ford being the only one of the Republican Presidents that were
more or less centerest.
     I still think that the national parties will only cover the gay issues, when they are drug along
on that road.  I do not see them as leading the way.  Even though some of their candidates
themselves, such as Mr Obama may secretly agree with them, they are worried about the loss
of their base.  If they lose the people they need to elect them.  Then wont be able to get
anything done.  I think they tend to be politically pragmatic.  Its an unfortunate part of the
job of getting elected.

[Monika]

      There is an opinion that I can share, since I am closest in age to Jack and Ennis probably. 
I first registered to vote and voted in the 60's.  I registered Republican, because I didnt really
know about the difference that much.  I changed my party affiliation however before I voted for
President the first time.  Because of Calif at the time having a six week registration period required
before election date.  I didnt get to vote for JFK whom I had worked and prayed for his election.
  I was one week too young to do that.  But I can say that the Republican party and the democratic
party were almost completely different then from what they are these days.  There was no talk at all of a gay agendas on either
of the national parties.  They were both pretty conservative religiously, but not near so strident and
open in their right wing agendas.  That pretty much started during the Bob Dole, Newt Gingrich
era.  They were the forerunners of the religious, right wing nut section and division of the parties.
Before that it was only the occasional wing nut in congress like the infamous McCarthy, or his
ilk. 
   But the country was pretty conservative financially and militarily.  Eisenhower was a typical
type American.  He too was a financial conservative, as was Reagan, and all the Republicans that
I have remembered in office.  Ford being the only one of the Republican Presidents that were
more or less centerest.
     I still think that the national parties will only cover the gay issues, when they are drug along
on that road.  I do not see them as leading the way.  Even though some of their candidates
themselves, such as Mr Obama may secretly agree with them, they are worried about the loss
of their base.  If they lose the people they need to elect them.  Then wont be able to get
anything done.  I think they tend to be politically pragmatic.  Its an unfortunate part of the
job of getting elected.

thanks for an interesting post