Life and this movie are messy

[Brown Eyes]

About Aguirre, I was noticing in the story how he has "wavy hair...parted down the middle" just like the Red Sea (only his is the color of cigarette ash). Also, in his trailer are venetian blinds (separating the window into light and dark) which are hanging askew so that they "admit a triangle of white light." In other words, a mountain-shaped light. And his hand gestures as he gives instructions to the two boys, moves in the light with a chopping motion, as if he's cutting the mountain in two. He decrees that Ennis, the camp tender, should stay in the light and tend the fire, while Jack is on the QT, staying with the sheep and having no fire, in the dark.

About the Basque, he is bandy-legged and he also instructs Ennis in how to pack the mules, lashing them up: "ring-lashed with double diamonds." This is the wedding ceremony is it not? There are rings AND diamonds. Is the Basque the ring bearer? And then the Basque leaves him with a warning, not to eat from the fruit of the tree of Life, er, soup, because "them boxes a soup are real bad to pack." Not hard to pack, BAD to pack. In other words, they are a kind of Pandora's box, them boxes a soup.

This is a great, great post Sister Mod!   

I love the observation about the soup being like the forbidden fruit (or like Pandora's box).  I think folks have wondered about this term "boxes" in relation to the soup topic for a while.  Why boxes?  And why would soup be any harder to pack than beans (for example).  Also, the use of the term   "bad" as you note, is definitely intriguing.  It's interesting that this is another warning or line that Ennis and Jack decide to cross.

[Penthesilea]

Wow, love all those great insights posted the last days  .

Also, the use of the term   "bad" as you note, is definitely intriguing.  It's interesting that this is another warning or line that Ennis and Jack decide to cross.

Ennis. Only Ennis. Not Jack and Ennis. Metamophorically crossing lines, boundaries, rules: during their first summer, it is always Ennis, not Jack who goes first. Jack suggests (seduces), complains, is first with his mouth - but Ennis is the one who actually does the line-crossing (first).

Jack complains about commuting --> Ennis offers to switch (and does switch)
Jack complains about the beans --> Ennis orders soup
Jack suggests to shoot a sheep --> Ennis is the one who actually does shoot the elk

Ennis is the one who goes up to the sheep later and later ("... but the hours he was away from the sheep stretched out and out.")

Ennis is the one who decides "it's too late to go up to them damned sheep" and decides to stay in camp the whole night, against Aguirre's/God's will.

So while between the boys, Jack is the leading one (TS1, Jack introducing himself first, etc.), metamophorically, Ennis is the one who crosses the lines first.

[Brown Eyes]

That's an interesting point Chrissi!

I wonder if Jack may in his head have already crossed a bunch of lines... or maybe he doesn't even see or perceive the lines-to-be-crossed in the same way that Ennis does.  It seems like he hardly recognizes some of the potential problems with crossing certain lines (i.e. suggesting that they kill and eat a sheep and seeming to be exasperated by Ennis's resistance to this suggestion by saying "but there's thousands of them").  Essentially, maybe certain boundaries are a non-issue for Jack.  And, Ennis's increasing willingness to test boundaries (or boundaries that Ennis perceives in his own head) in some cases can be seen as part of his effort to woo Jack. Especially with the soup... the soup is a really flirty gesture (even if Ennis wouldn't be able to recognize that consciously at that point probably).

It seems like differing understandings of boundaries and lines-to-cross may have been one of the most difficult issues in their relationship from the beginning.

[BlissC]

That's an interesting point Chrissi!

I wonder if Jack may in his head have already crossed a bunch of lines... or maybe he doesn't even see or perceive the lines-to-be-crossed in the same way that Ennis does. 

Interesting point Amanda! As you say, maybe Jack doesn't see the lines. He certainly doesn't seem to be "troubled" by them, doesn't seem nervous at all about them. They all just seem to be natural occurrences almost for him.

So while between the boys, Jack is the leading one (TS1, Jack introducing himself first, etc.), metamophorically, Ennis is the one who crosses the lines first.

TS1's an interesting one, because as we've said, Jack does the leading, and it's Jack who reaches over and takes Ennis's hand like it's any everyday occurrence, and while Ennis is clearly very shocked ("...Ennis jerked his hand away as though he'd touched fire."), he recovers from that shock very quickly and makes the decision to take matters further - mere seconds IIRC, which suggests that he's been seriously thinking about this turn of events, whether consciously or subconsciously. Given all the line-crossing and the fact that there seems to me to be a slight pause between him getting up from the side of the fire and setting off for the tent (not just a decision about whether to go into the tent, but whether to go into the tent with Jack), I'm edging towards consciously....

[Front-Ranger]

I love the observation about the soup being like the forbidden fruit (or like Pandora's box).  ...this is another warning or line that Ennis and Jack decide to cross.

Remember also that the Basque said later "It's too early in the summer to be sick of beans" as if the forbidden fruit is not ripe enuff to eat yet.

Good point, friend Amanda.

[Artiste]

Front-Ranger:

As I just read this:
          Remember also that the Basque said later "It's too early in the summer to be sick of beans" as if the forbidden fruit is not ripe enuff to eat yet.

               
...........
may I say: Wow ! Great thought !


More news ?

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Front-Ranger]

As I just read this:
          Remember also that the Basque said later "It's too early in the summer to be sick of beans" as if the forbidden fruit is not ripe enuff to eat yet.

               
...........
may I say: Wow ! Great thought !

I can't take credit for it, Artiste. It was part of an astounding series of revelations by Clancypants Nasty aka ruthlessly unsentimental, who doesn't come around here any more, but his posts can be read on the Open Forum and on IMDB Rewound.

[Artiste]

Merci Front-Ranger !

Could you present those threads please ?


Au revoir,
hugs!

[Front-Ranger]

Merci Front-Ranger !

Could you present those threads please ?

Here is where it is located:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,3033.new.html#new

[nagsheadsea412]

I remember my brother in the 1960's spitting on the pavement...and thinking nothing of it...it's just what boys did...and think of all the baseball players who had that habit...and I have an uncle in fargo, ND....who does his fair share...dunno