TOTW 01/09: Jack meeting Alma - symbolism and questions (story-related)

[Penthesilea]

Hi Bettermostians  ,

after a long hiatus, we have another TOTW.

First a few words concerning the TOTW. This feature will be going on, but no longer on a weekly basis. I'll continue to put up a TOTW at irregular intervals, whenever I think of something interesting or when someone suggests a topic (so please continue to do so ).


Now on with today's topic:
This topic was suggested by TempaTalon. Thank you Steve!

Our topic this week is story-related and starts out with two quotes and some questions.

From the story:

"Behind her in the room lightning lit the window like a white sheet waving in the wind and the baby cried.“
(after Ennis introduced Jack)

Some thoughts/questions on the above quote from Steve (TempaTalon):

White sheet waving= surrender of marriage or surrender of Jack & Ennis to each other finally?

Baby cries=great sadness? The beginning of the end for marriage or beginning of the end for Jack and Ennis?



Just a few paragraphs above we read these sentences by Annie Proulx:
„The door opened again a few inches and Alma stood in the narrow light. What could he say? „Alma, this is Jack Twist, Jack, my wife Alma.“ His chest was heaving. [...]. „Alma,“ he said, „Jack and me ain't seen each other in four years. As if it were a reason.“


When rereading the part with the reunion kiss and subsequently Jack meeting Alma a new thought occurred to me: did Ennis realize that Alma had seen them kissing? What does he provide an explanation for with his comment about the four years? - For their kiss/making out session (IMO).  As if it were a reason – for what? Again, for their kiss.

It's that little sentence „as if it were a reason“ which makes me think story-Ennis might have realized that she saw them. Of course, E&J both must have been aware that they were quite a suspicious or at least strange sight: trembling like a run out horse, chest heaving, etc. But somehow I think Ennis did refer not only to their actual state, but also to the kiss seconds earlier.


What are your thoughts on the symbolism in Steve's sentence and the question about the kiss? Let's discuss the subtleties of the scene

Jack meeting Alma

[Brown Eyes]

Just dropping by to say this is a great topic!   

I'll come back and post a real response later tonight when I'm home from work.

[tampatalon]

Well, as always, I find Ms Proulx words brilliantly placed. Along with
the symbolism of the "white sheet" of course once again the word
"wind" appears so wonderfully intertwined!


TampaTalon^">

[retropian]

In the SS, I think Ennis was so worked up and over the moon in that moment, that he didn't care if Alma figured it out. Jack too in the SS was overcome with emotion and shaking because of it (been there!). In the film, that scene seems more subdued. It didn't seem Jack was trembling or overcome with emotion, which I would have liked to have seen. The symbolism of the scene is something I don't think has been discussed, and right now I have no ideas. So I'll ponder it for a while, hmmm.....

[Monika]

I have a hard time making up my mind. On the one hand, I do´t feel it´s  consistant with the rest of the story that Ennis knows that Alma knows. He´s so paranoid, surely he would have reacted to being caught in the act?
On the other hand,the scene itself suggests it.

It´s very sketchy and I think it´s supposed to be that way. I think Annie meant for us to make up our own minds, just like with the details surrounding Jack´s death.

[Monika]

It didn't seem Jack was trembling or overcome with emotion, which I would have liked to have seen.

I agree. I can see it during the kissing scene, but not when he meets Alma. One of my favorite lines from the ss is the one about Ennis being able to feel Jack tremble.
Everytime I watch that scene I wish they would have been a little more out of breath

[Katie77]

The short story and the film, certainly do show two different scenarios of the introduction to Alma.

Even though they are puffing and trembling in the SS, and Enis uses the excuse about not seeing each other for four years, I still do not think that Ennis is aware that Alma saw them kissing. I think he is using that excuse to explain their excitement and the visual that is now in front of Alma as they are introduced.  I think they were the only words that Ennis could think of at the time to try to cover up any reason for Alma to be suspicious of how they both looked.

If Ennis had thought Alma had seen them kissing, I think he would have left and never come back.

[Ellemeno]

I'm going to respond as if the question was "Do I think Ennis knew Alma saw them kiss?"  And i"m going to only reference the movie.

I don't think Ennis ever thought Alma suspected a thing until the Thanksgiving scene in the kitchen.  I don't think he would have so arrogantly said, "I'd be happy to leave you alone" moments before the divorce scene, if he thought she thought he was gay.  I don't think he would have said "Once burned" right before she confronted him in the Thanksgiving scene, if he'd thought she thought he was gay.  Both times he is acting like their lack of success in the marriage was her fault.

Also, right after she confronts him on Thanksgiving is the first time he asks Jack, "Lureen don't suspect?"  I think he only gave indication that he thought he was getting away with his fishing trips actually being trysts until then.

Also, and I've brought this up before and I don't think anyone has yet ever agreed with me on this - I think that Monroe, Junior, and Jenny totally hear the Thanksgiving exchange, at least the end parts, which were louder.  And it's why we never see Jenny after that moment, and why Junior suggests he might not be the marrying kind.

[Monika]

I'm going to respond as if the question was "Do I think Ennis knew Alma saw them kiss?"  And i"m going to only reference the movie.

I don't think Ennis ever thought Alma suspected a thing until the Thanksgiving scene in the kitchen.  I don't think he would have so arrogantly said, "I'd be happy to leave you alone" moments before the divorce scene, if he thought she thought he was gay.  I don't think he would have said "Once burned" right before she confronted him in the Thanksgiving scene, if he'd thought she thought he was gay.  Both times he is acting like their lack of success in the marriage was her fault.

I agree. In the movie there´s never any doubt that Ennis doesn´t know, in my mind.
I find it more vague in the ss though.

[Katie77]

Also, and I've brought this up before and I don't think anyone has yet ever agreed with me on this - I think that Monroe, Junior, and Jenny totally hear the Thanksgiving exchange, at least the end parts, which were louder.  And it's why we never see Jenny after that moment, and why Junior suggests he might not be the marrying kind.

I agree, that Monroe and the girls would have heard the argument at Thanksgiving. I dont think Jenny would have been old enough to comprehend what was actually going on, other than to see that her Mum and Dad were having an argument. I do think Junior probably got the gist of what was happening. In those days though, I doubt if she would have understood completely what was actually going on, but as she got older she  might have become more aware of things.