Author Topic: Why Jack Quit Ennis  (Read 44526 times)

ruthlesslyunsentimental

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Re: Why Jack Quit Ennis
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2006, 04:08:24 pm »
Darn you, Ruthlessly, you just made me cry at my desk …

Well, gosh darn it… you just did it to me!


I was really worried about posting this because of all the negative response I’ve gotten in the past about my thoughts on this topic.  But, wow!  You take it a bit further…

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I don't think Jack would have seen Ennis again.  Had he not been killed, I think he would have sent a postcard back in answer to Ennis' last one saying something along the lines of "Sorry, Friend, I can't make it in November after all" and would have left it at that.  If Ennis wanted to know why, let him call him or come looking for him and he'd tell him.  But I think he'd think it'd hurt both of them too much to see each other again only to officially break up.  I don't see him not doing it face to face as cowardly - I see it as being just as unselfish as deciding to let him be in the first place.  The selfish thing would be to see him again and try to force yet another confrontation and make an ultimatum.

And I can totally see this!  It sure does make sense.  But, gosh… you’re ruthlessly … correct?


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Aw, Jack.  You really were too damn special to be buried in the family plot.  Or anywhere else for that matter.

Now you stop it!


 :'(    :'(    :'(




Offline serious crayons

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Re: Why Jack Quit Ennis
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2006, 04:31:46 pm »
I don't think Jack would have seen Ennis again.  Had he not been killed, I think he would have sent a postcard back in answer to Ennis' last one saying something along the lines of "Sorry, Friend, I can't make it in November after all" and would have left it at that.  If Ennis wanted to know why, let him call him or come looking for him and he'd tell him.  But I think he'd think it'd hurt both of them too much to see each other again only to officially break up.

 :o

Hunh?!

I have (much) more to say about Ruthlessly's post and the entire concept, but I really should be concentrating on my so-called paid employment now, so I'll wait ... But Barb! You shocked me so much I have to abandon work for a moment. Are you saying Jack would just leave Ennis wondering what's going on until Ennis ran into Jack eating pie in a bus station?!

Sure, it would hurt to break up in person. But doesn't it always? Don't people just have to go through with anyway? Isn't breaking up hard to do?

Offline Amber

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Re: Why Jack Quit Ennis
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2006, 05:16:28 pm »
I thank you - you put into words what I think.  I've equated the lake scene with the "If you love someone you must set them free" but you put into much better words.  The first dozen times I watched the movie I refused to believe that Jack would quit Ennis - but the more I watched and fell into the story the more I realized that, that is exactly what he did.  The look on his face and in his eyes after the flashback are what really cement it for me.  His eyes have always spoke volumes to me in that scene - always loss and extreme longing/love. 

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A long time ago I had myself somewhat sorrowfully concluded that the look on Jack's face as he watches Ennis drive away after the confrontation at the lake did, indeed, mean that Jack had decided to "quit" Ennis--and I have always understood that "quit" did NOT mean "stop loving." 
 

EXACTLY!  He "quit" him only because he loved him.

It is my guess however (guess because we'll never know) that Jack "quit" Ennis only in that he wasn't going to make all of the moves anymore and that if Ennis one day miraculously decided that he did want a life with Jack and pursued it, Jack would have agreed.

How many times have we "quit" friends/relationships because we were sick of making all of the phone calls, all of the plans and handling all of the details.  And how many times have we reconciled when the other half of the relationship came to their senses and realized how important the relationship is to them and finally made an effort. 

That's kind of my added spin to this I guess.  I agree that Jack "quit" Ennis because he loved him so much he couldn't stand to see him suffer anymore and he knew it was what needed to happen.  I also think that there was a degree of it though that was Jack protecting himself from putting anymore effort into something that wasn't getting reciprocated the way he wanted it to be.  He was stepping back for Ennis's sake and perhaps hoping that Ennis would realize what he had lost and perhaps do something about it.  Ennis was the only true love of Jack's life - I just can't imagine Jack saying "no" if Ennis finally came around and decided that he wanted a life with Jack.  However, if Ennis never made any moves and never pursued Jack again - Jack would have let things be.

Hope this made some sense!  :)


"... and Ennis, not big on endearments, said what he said to his horses and daughters, little darlin." ~Proulx

"Life is not a succession of urgents nows; it is a listless trickle of why-should-I's."  Johnny Depp as the Second Earl of Rochester.

Offline ednbarby

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Re: Why Jack Quit Ennis
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2006, 05:21:44 pm »
:o

Hunh?!

I have (much) more to say about Ruthlessly's post and the entire concept, but I really should be concentrating on my so-called paid employment now, so I'll wait ... But Barb! You shocked me so much I have to abandon work for a moment. Are you saying Jack would just leave Ennis wondering what's going on until Ennis ran into Jack eating pie in a bus station?!

Sure, it would hurt to break up in person. But doesn't it always? Don't people just have to go through with anyway? Isn't breaking up hard to do?

That look in his eyes as he watches Ennis drive away tells me that he did break up with him in his own heart and mind.  Whenever I've tried to imagine what their time in November would have been like had Jack not been killed, I've always come away feeling that Ennis wouldn't have come far enough to do it right, so to speak.  No way would he have an open relationship with Jack like Jack wanted.  The most he would have done would have been to agree to move a little closer and maybe to meet up more often and in places Jack suggested.  I just can't see Ennis ever agreeing to live together.  Which is not to say I don't want to see that - of course I do.  But I just can't.

So, knowing this, and realizing he has to let Ennis go to free Ennis from his torment, how would Jack meet with him one last time to tell him all this?  If he were going to do it face to face, I don't see him waiting until November, first of all.  So maybe after getting that last post card from Ennis, he would call him (it's not like Alma's gonna answer after all) and tell him they have to meet somewhere - not at a campsite, not in the mountains - maybe at Ennis' house/trailer?  I don't know.  And they have to talk.  Hell, I could even see Ennis' postcard saying it still looks like November is the soonest he can make it as being an answer to an interim one from Jack saying "We got to meet sooner - just for an hour or two - to talk.  Can we do that sometime?  I'll come to you."

Again, Jack's not wanting to have the usual kind of reunion with Ennis, in my mind, doesn't make Jack a coward.  It makes him a hero.  Because he knows that kind of get-together will only tear Ennis apart more.  Ennis would have to drive God knows how far back to his lonely old house or trailer having just been told by Jack that they can never see each other again.  If Jack did tell him face to face, I also think he would be cruel to be kind, again, and would tell Ennis he's met someone else and wants to live with him.  Period.  Clean break.  It's the only way.

Am I truly the ruthless one?  Nah.  I've been there is all, to a much lesser extent.  He still thinks I broke up with him, even though it was he who had been breaking up with me a little bit at a time from the moment we met.  If that helps get him through, power to it, I guess.  I can't make him face the truth - that's on him.
No more beans!

ruthlesslyunsentimental

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Re: Why Jack Quit Ennis
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2006, 05:41:12 pm »
Are you saying Jack would just leave Ennis wondering what's going on until Ennis ran into Jack eating pie in a bus station?!

LOL!  This one goes in the display case!


Sorry.  I know your intent wasn't to be flippant, but it was funny!

As always, I look forward to your input here.




ruthlesslyunsentimental

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Re: Why Jack Quit Ennis
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2006, 05:59:50 pm »
… and that if Ennis one day miraculously decided that he did want a life with Jack and pursued it, Jack would have agreed.

Here’s a sticky question… let’s say Jack “quit” Ennis.  And Jack moved up to Lightning Flat with the other fella.  Now, it’s five years later.  Ennis pays a call to say he’s ready, willing, and able.  Does Jack dump Randall?  Did Jack just accept Randall as a warm body?  Or did Jack make/allow himself to fall in love with Randall?  We’ve all heard that the first love is the strongest.  (I question this, though.)  So even if we all agree that any love that Jack would have for Randall is not as strong as the love Jack had for Ennis, would Jack dump Randall and his love for Randall after, let’s say, five years of living together?  I don’t want this to go the fan fiction route; rather, just a good discussion of our views of Jack’s and Ennis’ characters.


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I also think that there was a degree of it though that was Jack protecting himself from putting anymore effort into something that wasn't getting reciprocated the way he wanted it to be.

Thus, his comment:  “I wish I knew how to quit you.”


Thanks for your input!






ruthlesslyunsentimental

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Re: Why Jack Quit Ennis
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2006, 06:13:56 pm »
That look in his eyes as he watches Ennis drive away … I just can't see Ennis ever agreeing to live together.

I agree.   :'(


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… and realizing he has to let Ennis go to free Ennis from his torment …

Well put.



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… how would Jack meet with him one last time to tell him all this?

I think everything you said in this paragraph is wholly plausible.  But, can you just imagine the scene in Ennis’ trailer after Jack told Ennis it had to be over?  I think Ennis would be stunned.  Would he break down?  Would he lash out?  Would he beg?  Argh!


Speaking of Ennis’ reaction… just how would Ennis react to a postcard from Jack saying:

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"We got to meet sooner - just for an hour or two - to talk.  Can we do that sometime?  I'll come to you."

Every wheel in his head would be spinning so fast…


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Ennis would have to drive God knows how far back to his lonely old house or trailer having just been told by Jack that they can never see each other again.  If Jack did tell him face to face, I also think he would be cruel to be kind, again, and would tell Ennis he's met someone else and wants to live with him.  Period.  Clean break.  It's the only way.

Shouldn’t there be a smiley for “sobbing uncontrollably?”


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Am I truly the ruthless one?

Join the club.  Are you closer to Wyoming or Texas?  If Wyoming, we meet the first Wednesday of every month at Don Wroe’s cabin.  If Texas, we get together at Roy Taylor’s every other Saturday – there’s a lot more “ruthlesslys” in Texas.  But as a newcomer, you’ll have to bring the apple pie or a nice elk.






Offline serious crayons

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Re: Why Jack Quit Ennis
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2006, 06:18:40 pm »
Would he break down?  Would he lash out?  Would he beg?  Argh!

No. The scene would echo the ones when they say goodbye in Signal and then Ennis goes into the alley.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2006, 06:20:53 pm by latjoreme »

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Why Jack Quit Ennis
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2006, 06:36:04 pm »
Tell you what, I was just reading through the posts on this thread since my own brief response of this morning, when suddenly this popped into my head:

Are we making assumptions about Randall? Not just on this thread, but elsewhere?

What if Jack was wrong about "the ranch neighbor"? What if Randall turned out  to be no more willing to ranch up with Jack than Ennis was?

Just because Randall came on to Jack doesn't necessarily mean he would have turned out to be "husband material."

What if all Randall wanted from Jack was ... sex?

 :o
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

ruthlesslyunsentimental

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Re: Why Jack Quit Ennis
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2006, 06:37:18 pm »
No. The scene would echo the ones when they say goodbye in Signal and then Ennis goes into the alley.


Hadn't even thought of this.  Now THIS is sad!