Author Topic: Don't Never Order Soup...  (Read 10890 times)

Offline nakymaton

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,045
  • aka Mel
Re: Don't Never Order Soup...
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2006, 11:29:08 pm »
I just found this thread today.  I know I'm a little late to the party, but I'm hoping the Mel-O-Tron can help me out.  What do you think is the significance that in Annie Proulx's story, Ennis notifies Jack of his divorce by phone (the ONLY time they ever spoke on the phone), but in the movie, Ennis informs Jack of the divorce by post card?! ;D

Well, the movie has more love scenes, but the book has more sex, so...

Phone - sex; mail - love?

Don't ask me what text messaging is...
Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

Offline laurel

  • Sr. Ranch Hand
  • ***
  • Posts: 87
  • Heath, we'll never forget you.
Re: Don't Never Order Soup...
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2006, 11:45:38 pm »
I bow to the wisdom of the Mel-o-Tron!! ;D  Thank you!

Oh...just thought of another phone reference.  When Cassie said she left message for Ennis with Steve at the ranch, I assume she is talking about phone messages.  But Ennis ignored the messages, so in this case....

phone = no sex

Hmmm, an exception to the rule....we can call it the Cassie Corollary!
What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger.   -Annie Proulx (Icon by alighttofollow)

Offline j.U.d.E.

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,747
Re: Don't Never Order Soup...
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2006, 07:09:38 am »
Don't ask me what text messaging is...

THAT! exactly would have been my next question!   ;D

[the smilies have lost their hat!? is that because of the sofware update? hope they will be covered again soon..]

j. U. d. E.
MLK - - - - - - - - - - - - HAL - - - - - - - - - - - - BHO
*15 jan 1929 - †04 apr 1968 | *04 apr 1979 - † 22 jan 2008 | *04 aug 1961 -

Offline j.U.d.E.

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,747
Re: Don't Never Order Soup...
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2006, 07:29:22 am »
Sorry to interupt this call, but what about them bottles? Have you counted the number of times we see bottles. It's mostly Jack who holds them (*he drank a lot*..  :( ). At the beginning it's each their own (but Jack's the drinker - how many bottles are there on the table next to him in the first café they go to - *if we are working together, we may aswell drink together*, whereas there's only one next to Ennis). But Jack's willing to share his beverage and then they even start drinking from the same bottle. Towards the end it's each their own again..

Many times you see the bottle distinctively 'highlighted' by light - I always wondered whether that was done on purpose..

j. U. d. E.
MLK - - - - - - - - - - - - HAL - - - - - - - - - - - - BHO
*15 jan 1929 - †04 apr 1968 | *04 apr 1979 - † 22 jan 2008 | *04 aug 1961 -

Offline EnnisLovesJack

  • Sr. Ranch Hand
  • ***
  • Posts: 83
  • Jack Nasty love me!
Re: Don't Never Order Soup...
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2006, 04:20:11 pm »
Ennis: "Jack are you a sheep?"



Jack: "Let me ask Lureen"




Well dang it if you didn't make me laugh out loud! Brilliant and discerning use of screen caps to go with those lines, David.  :laugh:
Jack Nasty loves you!

Offline nakymaton

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,045
  • aka Mel
Re: Don't Never Order Soup...
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2006, 11:16:10 pm »
Re: text messaging...

Well, my cell phone vibrates when I get a message.

Ummmmmmmmmm.....

Next question?

Sorry to interupt this call, but what about them bottles? Have you counted the number of times we see bottles. It's mostly Jack who holds them (*he drank a lot*..  :( ). At the beginning it's each their own (but Jack's the drinker - how many bottles are there on the table next to him in the first café they go to - *if we are working together, we may aswell drink together*, whereas there's only one next to Ennis). But Jack's willing to share his beverage and then they even start drinking from the same bottle. Towards the end it's each their own again..

I sort of noticed that they go through stages in drinking:

1) Bar at the beginning: each has his own bottles.

2) "More words than I've spoke in a year": Jack pours whiskey into Ennis's mug.

3) Before TS1: Both are drinking from the same bottle. (Aside: doesn't Jack just hand Ennis the bottle after the bear scare, too?)

So the drinking says something about the level of intimacy.

1) Separate.

2) Getting closer...

3) Could end up passing saliva back and forth on the lip of that bottle if they aren't careful...

and then, by TS2, the drinks are irrelevant and they just swap the saliva directly.
Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,758
Re: Don't Never Order Soup...
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2006, 01:24:31 am »
3) Could end up passing saliva back and forth on the lip of that bottle if they aren't careful...

and then, by TS2, the drinks are irrelevant and they just swap the saliva directly.

 :laugh:

Good way to look at it. That damn spit string is one of my favorite moments in the movie* (STILL no blushing smiley!)!

*among tiny details, I mean. From an artistic perspective, of course. (I had to actually get up out of bed and go to the computer at 1 a.m. to make this edit; I suddenly imagined people reading it and going, "Oh, sure. All the things to like about this movie -- the emotional impact, the subtle symbolism, the fine acting -- and she picks the spit string!"  ::))
« Last Edit: September 04, 2006, 02:00:38 am by latjoreme »

Offline Penthesilea

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,745
Re: Don't Never Order Soup...
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2006, 05:25:20 am »
But Jack's willing to share his beverage and then they even start drinking from the same bottle. Towards the end it's each their own again..

j. U. d. E.

What scene do you refer to? At the last time we see them drinking together, the evening before the lake side argument, they share a bottle of whiskey, they pass it back and forth.


Quote
From nakymaton:
So the drinking says something about the level of intimacy.

1) Separate.

2) Getting closer...

3) Could end up passing saliva back and forth on the lip of that bottle if they aren't careful...

and then, by TS2, the drinks are irrelevant and they just swap the saliva directly.

That's a good one.
And yet another detail from the movie which is well thought-out. The level of elaborateness never ceases to amaze me.

Offline nakymaton

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,045
  • aka Mel
Re: Don't Never Order Soup...
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2006, 08:41:38 am »
What scene do you refer to? At the last time we see them drinking together, the evening before the lake side argument, they share a bottle of whiskey, they pass it back and forth.

I don't know what Jude was observing, but we see them drinking when they're far away from one another quite often -- Jack in the two bar scenes and then at the dance benefit, and Ennis waiting for Jack and then when Cassie picks him up.

(Drinking alone, but then swapping spit -- or in the case of Jack trying to pick up Jimbo, thinking about swapping spit but not succeeding -- with someone else. Ennis and Jack might swap spit with Cassie and Lureen, but they ain't drinking from the same bottle, if you know what I mean.)

(And to Katherine: this is where you can jump in and say that sharing spit via a bottle of Old Rose on the last camping trip is no replacement for getting to see real spit-swapping. ;D )

(Oh, and to overinterpret symbolism, I guess this means that, when Jack gives Ennis the whiskey bottle after the bear attack, Jack really wants to swap spit. Or maybe kiss Ennis's owie and make it better. Or something like that.)

Edit: and I probably shouldn't even mention Old Man Twist spitting into the cup at the end of the movie, should I?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2006, 10:41:10 am by nakymaton »
Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,758
Re: Don't Never Order Soup...
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2006, 11:42:56 am »
and I probably shouldn't even mention Old Man Twist spitting into the cup at the end of the movie, should I?

I know there have been whole threads dedicated to interpreting the negative meanings of spit -- OMT's spitting as well as all the times Jack or Ennis spits during a conversation to express anger or contempt or dismissal. But I've never considered analyzing spit in the positive sense.

I'll say this, though, if it turns out that Ang plotted out the saliva symbolism so carefully that it included the spit string, I will gain a whole new level of admiration for his genius.