Crouching Sensibility Hidden Meaning

[JennyC]

they were translated to Thai. as well as the movies dubbed to Thai. There are some Thai martial art, but nothing as spectacular as Chinese.

That's good to know that those martial art stories reached outside of just Chinese culture.  I understand how ridiculous it can sound to people at times.  But it’s a wonderful fantasy world that they created.  Many well known Chinese scholars said they read and enjoy those martial art stories.  The most famous martial art author is a well respected historian and scholar himself.  After all, many of the great martial art stories/novels are a combination of many elements including fantasy, historical events, human struggle between good and evil, love and lost, etc.  I read some of my favorite martial art novels as many times as I read “A Dream of the Red Chamber” (which is considered by many to be one of the greatest Chinese novels ever written).

We have to talk about the martial art stories that you like sometimes, Nipith. Maybe when we are all back from our vacation.

[Front-Ranger]

I hope I don't go on and on about this, but recently I mentioned that I thought Brokeback Mountain carried on the Wuxia tradition in Chinese arts in a new milieu, and I was just about drummed off the board. People were debating about it for days!! So, here is some information, and I would like to know what Nipith, Jenny, and all of you think about this. Wuxia=martial arts junk? or enduring archetype??

There is a long literary tradition in China called "Wuxia" that has to do with martial arts, chivalry, and historical epic storytelling. Wuxia novels and stories extend back to the early dynasties, and when the People's Revolution drove many Wuxia writers into exile the tradition was carried on in other places such as Taiwan, where Ang Lee was born. Wuxia stories have parallels to other cultures including the West. This is from Wikipedia:

Jiang Hu (江湖) (Gong Woo), (literally means "rivers and lakes") is the wuxia parallel universe - the alternative world of martial artists and pugilists, usually congregrating in sects, disciplines and schools of martial arts learnings. It has been described as a kind of "shared world" alternate universe, inhabited by wandering knights and princes, thieves and beggars, priests and healers, merchants and craftspeople. It corresponds roughly to America's Wild West period, or to the era of the Book of Judges in the Bible. The best wuxia writers draw a vivid picture of the intricate relationships of honor, loyalty, love and hatred between individuals and between communities within this milieu.

“The world these heroes created for themselves has since taken on a life of its own, has become a sort of "shared world" alternate universe in which, the mundane laws of physics are suspended, and men and women of spotless virtue roam the landscape searching for fresh challenges.[11] It is a world that is so well known to all Asian creators and consumers of wuxia stories that it even has a name: jiang hu.” From Heroic Grace: The Chinese Martial Arts Film by David Chute Editor's Introduction to the catalog of the landmark touring film series curated by Cheng-Sim Lim for the UCLA Film and Television Archive, 2003.

[JennyC]

Wuxia=martial arts junk? or enduring archetype??

First, Lee I should know that you know your Wuxia from your avatar.

Wuxia (武俠) =martial arts junk?  Of course not!  It’s classic.  Granted there are some junky Wuxia stories (just like any genre), but there are many that I would call classic Chinese literature.  As mentioned in my post, I have read some Wuxia stories as many times as “A Dream of the Red Chamber”.  That’s a statement that is not to be taken lightly.

Many scholar also consider some Wuxia stories to be classic.  I once read news that a chapter of Jin Yong (or Zha Liangyong  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinyong)’s story is to be adapted into high school Chinese textbook.  Given how controlled the content of the textbooks is, I will say it’s widely accepted as classic writing. Jin Yong is the most famous Wuxia writer and a national treasure considered by many in China.  I am proud to say that I have read all his books and some of them many times.

Jianghu is a fantasy world created by Wuxia writers.  It’s like J. R. R. Tolkien’s Middle-earth.  I think what some classic Wuxia novels to Chinese literature are like what Lord of the Rings Trilogy to the English literature.  It’s may not be to your taste, but no one can deny that it's enduring archetype. In the heart of the stories, it’s about the struggle of human nature, good versus evil, courage, loyalty, love, friendship, revenge, mercy, salvation, greedy, betray, justice, etc.

I could go on and on about Wuxia stories .  Some people know their favorite Wuxia stories just like how we know brokeback mountain story.  And I should add that some stories are longer than Lord of the Rings Trilogy.

[Front-Ranger]

Fascinating! We'll win Ray over yet!!

[starboardlight]

That's good to know that those martial art stories reached outside of just Chinese culture.  I understand how ridiculous it can sound to people at times.  But it’s a wonderful fantasy world that they created.  Many well known Chinese scholars said they read and enjoy those martial art stories.  The most famous martial art author is a well respected historian and scholar himself.  After all, many of the great martial art stories/novels are a combination of many elements including fantasy, historical events, human struggle between good and evil, love and lost, etc.  I read some of my favorite martial art novels as many times as I read “A Dream of the Red Chamber” (which is considered by many to be one of the greatest Chinese novels ever written).

We have to talk about the martial art stories that you like sometimes, Nipith. Maybe when we are all back from our vacation.

most of then created Thai titles that sometimes don't correspond to the chines titles. I read them as a child so I don't remember most of them anyway. I remember the stories of the Monkey King. I also really loved the stories about Kuan Yin. I remember a novel about a pauper with jade staff being really popular. I don't remember what the title was. The stories about the Great Judge Bao was also really huge in Thailand. We got lots of tv series from Hong Kong, so many of the stories that we got were through these.

[Front-Ranger]

I loved the Monkey King story too, and wrote a screenplay of it when I was in college. I fantacized about doing an animated version, but that was before PIXAR et al. Monkey King would be better than Lion King, hands down. I'm not familiar with the Kuan Yin story, I thought Kuan Yin was the boddisattva of compassion, who gave up nirvana to help other people reach it. Do I have my personages all mixed up??

[JennyC]

The Monkey King (a.k.a The Journey to the West (西游记)) has been considered one of the Four Great Classical Chinese Novels.  I actually never thought this one as a typical Wuxia novel, though it does have a lot of martial art elements in it.  There are animated versions of The Monkey King story done by Chinese and Japanese (I think).  Of course, they are no PIXAR quality.

As to the Kuan Yin story, I don't know which Wuxia novel may have Kuan Yin as the main character as Lee pointed out that "Kuan Yin was the boddisattva of compassion".  Kuan Yin appeared frequently in The Monkey King story though.

"Great Judge Bao" yeah, there are martial art TV series based on that.  And I have no idea on "a pauper with jade", guess that's where the translation really made a difference.

If you are seriously interested in Wuxia novel, you have to check out the works by Jinyong http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinyong.  His novels are the classic among classic.  My personal favorites are "Demi-Gods and Semi-Devils", "The Smiling, Proud Wanderer", and "The Deer and the Cauldron" (based on wikipedia translation)

[starboardlight]

honestly, I would guess most of what I read were pulp novels. serials that people wrote more for money than for literary ambitions. Also as a child I read them just because they were fun and different. I really don't know a whole lot about wuxia genre, or what would qualify a novel as fitting into that genre. Like I said I read them long long ago as a child. I'd love to find English translations of the one you mentioned Jenny. I'll look them up.

The story about Kuan Yin, that I remember was about her life before ascending to become boddisattva. She was a beautiful woman except for the fact that there was a large birthmark that covered half of her face. The stories tells of her journey toward achieving compassion, through love and heartbreaks, war and peace, etc.

The pauper with a jade staff (again can't remember the title) was a story about a young orphan who was raised by a clan of beggars. They cultivated their own style of martial arts using canes, staves, and the tools of beggars. He eventually takes his martial art skills to the elite level, when he found a jade staff and a hidden manual. It was very popular in Thailand in the late 70's.

[isabelle]

Hi Ray! Yeah, when I asked you if you'd seen this film, I didn't want to influence your judgement so I didn't say what I thought of it, but that IS what I thought: "Did I miss something?". This must be a case of culture shock, but I didn't dig it either, and just couldn't help laughing at those characters flying about! Sorry JennyC and Nipith 

[nakymaton]

I'm not Asian, and I didn't know anything about wuxia... and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is one of my five favorite movies ever. I think it's just absolutely beautiful: the landscapes, the score, the choreography, the acting, the story. It was the first movie that I left feeling like I absolutely had to see it again.

And nobody directs introverted characters like Ang Lee does.