Author Topic: More Tales of the Ignorant and the Hypocritical  (Read 6932 times)

Offline ednbarby

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More Tales of the Ignorant and the Hypocritical
« on: July 21, 2006, 09:57:10 am »
OK, so I'm at a bar last night to listen to my friend Suzanne who sings in a band.  It actually was a very nice bar - big, newly refurbished, clean, lots of TVs with sports on, nice bartenders.  But I digress.  A friend of her husband comes in to listen, too, and asks if he can join me.  Nice guy, it would seem.  Friendly.  Laughs a lot.  Fairly witty.  Between sets, she and her bandmates - another girl and a guy - come over and sit with us.  We're chatting, and Suzanne says, "You wouldn't believe what it took for me to get Barb out here to see us.  I had to promise her I'd watch "Brokeback Mountain" with her next week."  Now this is partially true - it so happens she had mentioned to me in passing that she still hadn't seen it and was meaning to rent it sometime, but it would have to be when her husband is out of town because he's "out of control with his homophobia" (nice).  So I had said, "Well, you're welcome to come over and watch it with me sometime."  One thing led to another...  So, anyway, I guess she thought this would be a good conversation starter, and she's always loved a good argument, so maybe she was hoping to start one.  The other girl in her band goes, "I haven't seen it yet, but I've heard nothing but good things."  The guy in her band (and God bless him) goes, "I've seen it.  Very good movie.  They were robbed at the Oscars."  The other guy goes (cringe), "What I don't understand is how a movie about two guys who bust up their marriages and wreck their families gets so much critical acclaim.  I mean, what kind of family values is that teaching?  It's promoting adultery."

 :o

I didn't know where to start.  So I jumped in hip-deep.  I go, "Oh, God.  You're a Republican, aren't you?"  Everybody laughed, including him.  But then I said, "Lemme ask you this:  Did you see "Out of Africa?""  He goes, "Yeah."  I go, "Did you think that was Best Picture-worthy?"  He goes, "I guess, yeah."  And I go, "And you don't think that was promoting adultery?"  He goes, believe it or not, "No.  Not like that.  There were no children involved."  I go, "First of all, if you'd seen the movie, you'd know that only one of the two guys ends up getting a divorce, and even so, they don't get together as a result.  They don't get together because one of them as a child was shown the body of a gay man who was tortured and beaten to death by his father, who probably did the job.  He's been taught to hate anyone who is gay, including himself.  The other guy ends up getting beaten to death because he is gay (I said this after the band went back to do their next set, so I didn't spoil it for my friend).  You wanna tell me how that promotes adultery?"  He goes, "Well, OK.  I see your point.  But they got married based on false pretenses, right?"  I said, "You gonna tell me no straight people ever do that?  Didn't Karen in 'Out of Africa' marry entirely for convenience?"  He goes, "Yeah, but they should have just stayed single."  (Just like a Republican - leave your teethmarks in that dead argument.)  So I said, "Are you married?"  He goes, I kid you not, "Well, no.  I'm divorced and I have two young boys."  I was speechless, so I just gave him the old Jack Twist, "Hmmmmm...." looking him dead in the eye.  He laughs and goes, "Touche."

Game, set, match.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2006, 10:00:24 am by ednbarby »
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: More Tales of the Ignorant and the Hypocritical
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2006, 10:50:00 am »
"Touche" is such a satisfying response to hear.  People should use it more (when talking to me).  ;)

Good work, Barb.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2006, 05:30:43 pm by Ellemeno »

Offline ednbarby

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Re: More Tales of the Ignorant and the Hypocritical
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2006, 10:56:38 am »
Thanks, Clarissa.  I seriously fear for those boys, though.   :-\
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Offline fernly

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Re: More Tales of the Ignorant and the Hypocritical
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2006, 10:59:05 am »
Way to go, Barb! :D  Guess we can hope that he'll go home and mull over some new ideas, maybe let some of them sink in. And as far as your friend's husband...
One mind at a time, sometimes...

Been meaning to ask - the words under your avatar - are they original? They're so right.
on the mountain flying in the euphoric, bitter air

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Re: More Tales of the Ignorant and the Hypocritical
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2006, 01:01:43 pm »
OMG...CHEERS to you Barb, YOU are my new hero of the day!  :D   wonderful story, you certainly gave him something to think about.

Offline ednbarby

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Re: More Tales of the Ignorant and the Hypocritical
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2006, 02:36:58 pm »
Way to go, Barb! :D  Guess we can hope that he'll go home and mull over some new ideas, maybe let some of them sink in. And as far as your friend's husband...
One mind at a time, sometimes...

Been meaning to ask - the words under your avatar - are they original? They're so right.

Thanks, Lynn.  I actually think there's hope for this guy, because when I told him the bit about what Ennis' father showed him, he goes, "Geez.  That's terrible.  Bigotry  definitely starts at home."  (I had to bite my tongue to keep from saying "So when exactly did yours start?", but I digress.)  My friend's husband is another story.  And he *loved* "Crash" (which she hated, which is what leads me to believe there's hope for her).

And the quote is from Green Day's "Jesus of Suburbia," their rock operetta answer to Queen's "Bohemian Rhapsody" - every bit as much of a rock and roll masterpiece, I think.  Many of the lines in it ring true for our Jack-y boy, but that one rings the truest.  Here's the whole thing.  For what it's worth.

Jesus of Suburbia ~ lyrics by Billie Joe Armstrong, Green Day

I'm the son of rage and love
The Jesus of Suburbia
From the bible of 'None of the Above'
On a steady diet of soda pop and Ritalin
No one ever died for my sins in hell
As far as I can tell
At least the ones I got away with

And there's nothing wrong with me
This is how I'm supposed to be
In a land of make believe
That don't believe in me

Get my television fix sitting on my crucifix
The living room or my private womb
While the Moms and Brads are away
To fall in love and fall in debt
To alcohol and cigarettes and Mary Jane
To keep me insane and doing someone else's cocaine

And there's nothing wrong with me
This is how I'm supposed to be
In a land of make believe
That don't believe in me

[Part 2: City Of The Damned]

At the center of the Earth
In the parking lot
Of the 7-11 where I was taught
The motto was just a lie
It says home is where your heart is
But what a shame
Cause everyone's heart
Doesn't beat the same
It's beating out of time

City of the dead
At the end of another lost highway
Signs misleading to nowhere
City of the damned
Lost children with dirty faces today
No one really seems to care

I read the graffiti
In the bathroom stall
Like the holy scriptures of a shopping mall
And so it seemed to confess
It didn't say much
But it only confirmed that
The center of the earth
Is the end of the world
And I couldn't really care less

City of the dead
At the end of another lost highway
Signs misleading to nowhere
City of the damned
Lost children with dirty faces today
No one really seems to careeeeee

[Part 3: I don't care]

I don't care if you don't care
[x4]

Everyone is so full of shit
Born and raised by hypocrites
Hearts recycled but never saved
From the cradle to the grave
We are the kids of war and peace
From Anaheim to the Middle East
We are the stories and disciples
Of the Jesus of Suburbia
Land of make believe
And they don't believe in me
Land of make believe
And I don't believe
And I don't care!
I don't care! [x4]

[Part 4: Dearly beloved]

Dearly beloved are you listening?
I can't remember a word that you were saying
Are we demented or am I disturbed?
The space that's in between insane and insecure
Oh therapy, can you please fill the void?
Am I retarded or am I just overjoyed?
Nobody's perfect and I stand accused
For lack of a better word, and that's my best excuse

[Part 5: Tales of another broken home]

To live and not to breathe
Is to die In tragedy
To run, to run away
To find what you believe
And I leave behind
This hurricane of fucking lies
I lost my faith to this
This town that don't exist

So I run
I run away
To the light of masochists
And I leave behind
This hurricane of fucking lies
And I've walked this line
A million and one fucking times
But not this time

I don't feel any shame
I won't apologize

When there ain't nowhere you can go
Running away from pain
When you've been victimized
Tales from another broken home

You're leaving...
You're leaving...
You're leaving...
Ah you're leaving home...




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Offline silkncense

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Re: More Tales of the Ignorant and the Hypocritical
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2006, 09:34:01 pm »
Quote
One mind at a time, sometimes...


Fern & Barb -

How true.  And so on, and so on...
"……when I think of him, I just can't keep from crying…because he was a friend of mine…"

Offline delalluvia

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Re: More Tales of the Ignorant and the Hypocritical
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2006, 10:24:39 pm »
He goes, "Well, OK.  I see your point.  But they got married based on false pretenses, right?"  I said, "You gonna tell me no straight people ever do that?  Didn't Karen in 'Out of Africa' marry entirely for convenience?"  He goes, "Yeah, but they should have just stayed single."  (Just like a Republican - leave your teethmarks in that dead argument.)  So I said, "Are you married?"  He goes, I kid you not, "Well, no.  I'm divorced and I have two young boys."  I was speechless, so I just gave him the old Jack Twist, "Hmmmmm...." looking him dead in the eye.  He laughs and goes, "Touche."

Game, set, match.

Bravo!!!  Well done!

At least this guy had the brains and the maturity to acknowledge your point.  As we all know from IMDb and our own personal experiences, there are plenty of other people who will quickly change the subject or stand firm on hypocritical double-standards when they finally figure out where you are going because they don't want to admit that you have a point or make perfect sense.

Offline henrypie

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Re: More Tales of the Ignorant and the Hypocritical
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2006, 10:52:45 pm »
I love Barb!
I love Barb!

Gooooooo Barb!

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: More Tales of the Ignorant and the Hypocritical
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2006, 12:00:22 am »
Way to go Barb!  That guy clearly didn't know who he was tangling with...   Honestly, arguing with a devoted BetterMost-Brokie over such disheartening perceptions of the movie is a losing cause.
 ;)

Seriously, though.  I'm proud of you for really arguing with him and not backing down! 
 :D

That sounds like a very, very frustrating point of view he was trying to promote.  And, like others have said it sounds like you really got him to think a little bit.  It's interesting that he had formed his opinions without seeing the movie too. 
 >:(
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie