Author Topic: Rabbi says Gay or Straight, He's Still Your Husband , no divorce  (Read 6341 times)

vkm91941

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This from a spiritual newsletter I receive.  This Rabbi is a kind of Jewish Dear Abby, dealing with issues affecting "Kosher Couples" as he calls them.  This is the biggest load of horseshit I have ever read in my life.  He is condeming five people to misery, the husband and wife  for obivious reasons, but also the three children who will forever be affected by the tension between their parents.  Unbelievable in the 21 Century.  The covenant of marriage is void if both parties do not enter it on the same page.  Channeling your attraction..WTF
 

Gay or Straight, He's Still Your Husband

Just because your husband confesses he is attracted to men doesn't give him permission to walk away from his commitment to you.
 
 
Dear Rabbi Boteach,
I was wondering if you could provide some help and inspiration for someone like me. After 7 years of marriage, my husband recently came out of the closet. He is gay! What should I do?
--Shocked and Confused

Dear Shocked,
I’m sorry to hear of your predicament. This subject has come up many times in my work as a counselor. In fact, I advised very dear friends of mine when they went through a similar situation.

After having three children together, my friend's husband suddenly confessed that he was gay. Of course she was devastated, and she came to me for advice. I told her to tell him that it made no difference if he was straight or gay, because he had children and when he got married he took an oath before G-d to remain faithful. She had to demand his faithfulness. And as long as he could guarantee his faithfulness, then she should remain with him.

My point to her was that where our sexual predilections lead us is not the issue, so long as we can bring them under control. For example, most heterosexual men are not naturally monogamous. As scores of evolutionary biologists have reminded us, the human male has a predisposition toward inseminating as many females as possible, thereby guaranteeing the continuity of his gene pool.

But that which is natural is not necessarily right. It’s natural, for example, to wake up at 10 o'clock in the morning. But we habituate ourselves to wake up earlier in order to be productive. It’s natural for us to shove our faces into bowls to eat. But instead we civilize ourselves by using utensils to become refined. I said to my friend, who your husband is attracted to should have no bearing on the marriage, so long as he does not submit to his urges, and instead directs his libido toward his wife.

The same thing is true for you—you should demand your husband's fidelity and faithfulness. Clearly 7 years of marriage demonstrate that he is capable of being attracted to you, even if his preference is for men. Because you and your husband have been married for 7 years, and it took him to confess he was gay and you did not see it yourself, I can only assume that he was doing things with you as a husband that a heterosexual husband generally does. Therefore, I would make his attraction to men an issue of no consequence.

I assume you’re asking what you should do because you love him and wonder what's to become of your marriage. I say, the marriage should continue and he should remain completely faithful. He will just have to battle his urges toward men just as he would have to battle his urges toward other women if he were a heterosexual male. The fact is, human sexuality is pretty malleable, and we can direct ourselves to be attracted to the target of our choice. There is instinctual attraction and then there is habituated attraction. Let your husband work on becoming habitually attracted to you and channeling his attraction towards you.

The situation would be different if your husband were one of the small percentage of gay men who has absolutely no attraction to women, because studies show that approximately 90% of gay men have had sex with women. If he were part of the 10% who could never be attracted to a woman, I would tell you the marriage is over and divorce must sadly follow. But clearly your husband can perform with and be attracted to women, so your marriage should not be thrown away.

I wish you G-d’s blessings,
Shmuley
 


Offline David In Indy

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Re: Rabbi says Gay or Straight, He's Still Your Husband , no divorce
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2006, 02:00:49 am »
Victoria-

This Rabbi sounds more like a Catholic Bishop to me.

God. The crap they fed us Catholic kids when we were growing up.

Things haven't changed much. Not even for Jewish people.  :'(
Dogs have owners. Cats have staff.

vkm91941

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Re: Rabbi says Gay or Straight, He's Still Your Husband , no divorce
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2006, 02:05:19 am »
You sound like my Dad David, you should hear the stories he tells about Catholic School in the 30's amazing he's the well rounded, tolerant man he is given all the crap he was force fed. Just amazing the things people hide behind God to do.  When it has nothing to do with God and everything to do with their own shortsightedness and insecurity. 
« Last Edit: July 28, 2006, 02:07:11 am by vkm91941 »

Offline henrypie

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Re: Rabbi says Gay or Straight, He's Still Your Husband , no divorce
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2006, 12:36:46 pm »

Whoa!

That's some extra-strength bullsh-t.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Rabbi says Gay or Straight, He's Still Your Husband , no divorce
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2006, 06:28:24 pm »
The god-people are in the business of keeping the status quo.  Only the very few and brave are actually speaking out against such ludicrous 'counselling'.   ::)

Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: Rabbi says Gay or Straight, He's Still Your Husband , no divorce
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2006, 06:50:24 pm »
What about the innocent children?. Their needs should come above all others when they are still children. 
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Rabbi says Gay or Straight, He's Still Your Husband , no divorce
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2006, 07:55:15 pm »
What about the innocent children?. Their needs should come above all others when they are still children. 

What about them?

Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: Rabbi says Gay or Straight, He's Still Your Husband , no divorce
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2006, 08:01:08 pm »
What about them?
As I said, childrens needs should come first. Not the personal lives of their parents.
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

vkm91941

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Re: Rabbi says Gay or Straight, He's Still Your Husband , no divorce
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2006, 12:38:48 am »
What about the innocent children?. Their needs should come above all others when they are still children. 

Well as a mother myself I fail to see how forcing two people to drag a dead marriage around serves the needs of the children.  Children are happiest when their parents are happy.  The majority of children damaged by being the product of a broke home is due to the rancor and spite between the divorced parents, and is no greater that than the damage that would be done by the slow errosion of respect between parents forced to live a lie.  Wasn't that part of the whole message of BBM.  They lie hurts EVERYONE! No one is untouch least of all the not the children.

Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: Rabbi says Gay or Straight, He's Still Your Husband , no divorce
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2006, 02:03:20 am »
Well as a mother myself I fail to see how forcing two people to drag a dead marriage around serves the needs of the children.  Children are happiest when their parents are happy.  The majority of children damaged by being the product of a broke home is due to the rancor and spite between the divorced parents, and is no greater that than the damage that would be done by the slow errosion of respect between parents forced to live a lie.  Wasn't that part of the whole message of BBM.  They lie hurts EVERYONE! No one is untouch least of all the not the children.
Well as a kid who grow up in a broken home I will say that two parents who  are mature enought to put their differences aside and concentrate on bringing up ther kids are much better off. Most people who get married take the vows "forsake all others, for better for worse" something that should not be taken lighty. It's unfortunate that with  todays divorce rate at over 50% far to many people do. If the two people making those vows decide they no longer want to thats one thing, however the  children those two have created, way different, its breaking up a  family.
What a mandoes in the Rabbiis story is keep his commitments. stay in the home and raise his famiy, putting his childrens needs before their own. Ennis did try and do this although not as well as he could have.
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Rabbi says Gay or Straight, He's Still Your Husband , no divorce
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2006, 12:03:36 pm »
Well as a kid who grow up in a broken home I will say that two parents who  are mature enought to put their differences aside and concentrate on bringing up ther kids are much better off.

To each their own, I suppose.  But studies don't support your view.   Last I read, studies said that even chldren from broken homes, provided they're given love and support from their divorced parents, grow up just fine.

My best friend in high school was from a broken family but she didn't know it.  Her parents were going to get divorced, but didn't do so for the 'sake of the kids'.  There was no shouting or arguing or violence, but she could tell there was an undercurrent of unhappiness and tension and nights when her parents weren't speaking or her dad would leave to go sleep in his rental house across the street...and she never knew why or what was going on.

Kids pick up a lot more than one would think.

That she ended up growing up tense and insecure is a given don't you think considering her environment?

When she graduated college, her parents finally told her and her reply to them was a terse "Don't do me any more favors."  She's going to have to deal with the results of her parents 'putting the kids first' for the rest of her life.

Quote
Most people who get married take the vow "forsake all others, for better for worse" something that should not be taken lighty.

I'm sure they don't, but of course, those vows were written when women didn't have much of a choice and were forced to stay with abusive, alcoholic or otherwise unfitting partners.

Quote
It's unfortunate that with  todays divorce rate at over 50% far to many people do.

Makes you wonder if the divorce rate would have been just as higher in the past

1) if statistics had been kept
2) women had more choice

Quote
If the two people making those vows decide they no longer want to thats one thing, however the  children those two have created, way different, its breaking up a  family.

Once the husband and wife no longer want to be together, the family's already broken.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2006, 12:06:41 pm by delalluvia »

Offline henrypie

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Re: Rabbi says Gay or Straight, He's Still Your Husband , no divorce
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2006, 12:57:19 pm »
Hey dela,
I agree with everything EXCEPT: children pick up everything, not just more than we think.  They are little sensing-mobiles, all antennae and whiskers.  Adults who think they can fool children are fooling themselves.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Rabbi says Gay or Straight, He's Still Your Husband , no divorce
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2006, 01:42:43 pm »
Hey dela,
I agree with everything EXCEPT: children pick up everything, not just more than we think.  They are little sensing-mobiles, all antennae and whiskers.  Adults who think they can fool children are fooling themselves.

Hiya pie,

I must say that it depends on the child which is why I put the qualifier on it.  I was Alma Jr., my father had multiple affairs when I was a child and even took me to visit his mistresses and I never suspected a thing.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2006, 01:44:31 pm by delalluvia »

Offline henrypie

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Re: Rabbi says Gay or Straight, He's Still Your Husband , no divorce
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2006, 09:20:03 pm »
Ah.  Yeah, I see your point.  But I do think in terms of knowing how people really FEEL, not necessarily the mechanics and details of what they were doing, is where you can't fool a kid.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Rabbi says Gay or Straight, He's Still Your Husband , no divorce
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2006, 11:09:25 pm »
Ah.  Yeah, I see your point.  But I do think in terms of knowing how people really FEEL, not necessarily the mechanics and details of what they were doing, is where you can't fool a kid.

[embarrassed face]  I must have been a completely clueless kid.  I had no clue that anyone in my family was unhappy.