Author Topic: Fan Fiction - Popularity Contest or Formula for Orthodoxy?  (Read 22923 times)

Offline notBastet

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Re: Fan Fiction - Popularity Contest or Formula for Orthodoxy?
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2006, 09:53:46 pm »
What the discussion in this case is essentially about is the tendency of many to take the route in insisting that it isn't what would make the reader or writer 'happy' or what would be the most rewarding to them - even though fanfic writers know there will be no financial rewards forthcoming - but rather toeing the line on what plotlines, interpretations or even, in the case of some 'ultra-orthodox' authors, what reactions are "acceptable" and what not "acceptable". The result, if that approach gets its way, can be people quite wasting their time and creative energy trying to fit their reading or their work into an arbitrary mold. And when that approach gets its way, whether one compares it to a small town or uses any other metaphor, you might as well put creativity through a shredder and flush it down the toilet.

After all, in the end what good came out of the campaign to stamp out "decadent art"?   :P

I have enjoyed reading all the recent comments.  I'm not sure I have anything of substance to add, but alas, never one to keep my mouth shout... what worries me, is when readers, writers, whoever, start throwing out terms like Marge mentions, such as acceptable and not acceptable, it starts feeling way too much like discrimation/censorship to me.  Isn't that what part of Brokeback Mountain is about... trying to move beyond labels of acceptable and not acceptable?  What's wrong with loving, as long as there is no harming?  It's fine if you don't like something, or it's not your cup of tea, but I find rules about writing and reading to be very scary. 
“It can be a little distressing to have to overintellectualize yourself” - Heath Ledger

Offline louisev

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Re: Fan Fiction - Popularity Contest or Formula for Orthodoxy?
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2006, 05:30:34 am »
Yes, Marge's point is well taken.  While it is clear, and unavoidable, that the majority of fan fiction readers take the route of a "happily ever after Jack and Ennis", the commitment to an orthodoxy model means that this majority dictate what constitutes an "acceptable plot."  One of the concepts is the concept of the "One true pairing" which means that the only pairing that is acceptable to be depicted, and the only one that makes the story "a real BBM fanfic" is a Jack and Ennis pairing.

But since Jack dies in the source story, the possibilities for writing in this pairing are limited to the period in which they were alive (infrequent meetings), or after Jack dies, which convicts Ennis to a life of lonely mourning.  Not exactly a wide field for exploration of same sex relationships if one follows this model.

The fan fiction philosophy here is that if it is based upon or uses characters from BBM - then by all means write it and post it.  My limitation in writing fan fiction stories is that I can't find it in me to rewrite Annie's ending of the story, and so therefore, Jack dies.  Even though I have deeply enjoyed writing Jack flashbacks, and Jack-as-a-ghost in my first story "A Warm Wind Blows", somehow, the idea of resurrecting Jack or diverting the end of the story... eludes me to date.

I may eat those words at some future time, but please nobody hold their breath.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


mvansand76

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Re: Fan Fiction - Popularity Contest or Formula for Orthodoxy?
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2006, 03:26:37 pm »
I was writing to David (David925 whom you all know on here who will be back soon) that after reading a few fanfictions I almost got tired of Jack-and-Ennis happy endings. I thought to myself "Did I really just write that?". I don't know where that came from.

Anyway, when I read fanfiction (I don't write fanfiction, I only read):
*I think I do prefer a Jack and Ennis story (that doesn't mean there has to be a happy ending)
*I want the story and the settings to be as close to the original story and movie, no Jack and Ennis in San Francisco or Germany in the 1930's
*I like it when the dialogue is plausible and when there are references to the original story and movie



Scott6373

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Re: Fan Fiction - Popularity Contest or Formula for Orthodoxy?
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2006, 03:42:18 pm »
My limitation in writing fan fiction stories is that I can't find it in me to rewrite Annie's ending of the story, and so therefore, Jack dies.  Even though I have deeply enjoyed writing Jack flashbacks, and Jack-as-a-ghost in my first story "A Warm Wind Blows", somehow, the idea of resurrecting Jack or diverting the end of the story... eludes me to date.

I may eat those words at some future time, but please nobody hold their breath.



I know exactly what you mean.  I can read AU fanfics and enjoy them terrifically, but when I write, I almost feel an obligation to remain within the parameters that AP has set...out of respect.

Offline Seom

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Re: Fan Fiction - Popularity Contest or Formula for Orthodoxy?
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2006, 12:08:43 am »
Reading this post has got me thinking, i don't know if this answer is exactly along with view taken, but anyway...
I personally enjoy the stories that are not happily ever after. I don't know why, but i'm a fan of tragedy. I think that BBM was perfect the way it was, but I'll admit to wanting it to be different. I WANT Jack to live, i want them to live happily ever after, but that's what makes the story so powerful. Just the fact that they can't wrenches my heart out. Maybe it is for this fact that I personally don't like reading those "happily ever after" stories. The heart wrenching story that BBM is is very dear to me. It takes a very well written happily ever after fan fic to get me hooked. I think i enjoy the stories that end sad simply because they stay true to the movie. Just my two cents ignore them if you'd like. ;)

Offline RouxB

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Re: Fan Fiction - Popularity Contest or Formula for Orthodoxy?
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2006, 05:02:51 am »
How curious, Rouxb.... when I got here on the first page of the E &E thread you described yourself as a devoted reader of the Laramie Saga.  I guess I'm confused.

Just back from vacation so catching up.

Why confused Louise? I am a devoted reader of the Laramie Saga-one of the first here to read it thanks to Leslie. I have read some absolutely beautiful stories by Fernly, Jeff S.-and others-that are not AU (dead Jack) and loved them. And I love the "happy ever after" because that is just how I am-I have enough reality in my reality. My thought, and excuse me if this is not what is being discussed, (said with juuusssstttt a pinch of tongue-in-cheek pissiness) from a reader perspective is that writers of AU are not necessarily trying to please their audience. My belief is that they are trying to preserve two characters and a relationship that they love. Is it predictable, lacking in imagination? Sure-lots of it. But, and I am quite willing to be wrong here, I don't see it as a premeditated attempt to become American Fanfic Idol.
That's just my happy ending mind-set. Oh, and I for one, don't give a poo about the plot elements as long as Jack is alive and not miserable at the end.

The original short story, and movie adaptation of it, are perfect for me and I would not see them changed in any way. They are what brought me here and were catalysts for change in my life. As I said, I had that sad, now I want some happy-I always want some happy.

 O0

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Offline louisev

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Re: Fan Fiction - Popularity Contest or Formula for Orthodoxy?
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2006, 05:32:19 am »
My confusion, RouxB is your comments about not reading dead!Jack stories.  Because the Laramie Saga is definitely a Dead!Jack story... that was the source of my confusion.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Fan Fiction - Popularity Contest or Formula for Orthodoxy?
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2006, 06:39:43 am »
My confusion, RouxB is your comments about not reading dead!Jack stories.  Because the Laramie Saga is definitely a Dead!Jack story... that was the source of my confusion.

You know, Louise, I would not call your story dead!Jack. I may be arguing semantics here, but to me dead!Jack stories seem to be the ones where the focus on Jack is dying (often accompanied by a flashback or two of his life with Ennis). Another variation are the stories that "fill in the blanks" of the story/movie by providing more detail...but the inevitable end is still going to be that Jack dies.

In your story, yes, Jack is dead but the whole emphasis is different. His memory is treated with respect and he is an important character, in his own right, even though he is not there in his physical body. I suppose moving on!Ennis is the best descriptor (of the terms that people use) but that, unfortunately, implies that Ennis is moving on and leaving Jack behind. Yes, he moves on in your story, but Jack is certainly with him in his heart. Maybe we can call him Jack and Ennis finally united!Ennis since he has achieved an understanding of the love he shared with Jack and accepted it in his life, something he never did while Jack was alive.

Leslie
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Marge_Innavera

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Re: Fan Fiction - Popularity Contest or Formula for Orthodoxy?
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2006, 09:27:10 am »
While it is clear, and unavoidable, that the majority of fan fiction readers take the route of a "happily ever after Jack and Ennis", the commitment to an orthodoxy model means that this majority dictate what constitutes an "acceptable plot."  One of the concepts is the concept of the "One true pairing" which means that the only pairing that is acceptable to be depicted, and the only one that makes the story "a real BBM fanfic" is a Jack and Ennis pairing.

But since Jack dies in the source story, the possibilities for writing in this pairing are limited to the period in which they were alive (infrequent meetings), or after Jack dies, which convicts Ennis to a life of lonely mourning.  Not exactly a wide field for exploration of same sex relationships if one follows this model.

The germ of the notion of the "one true pairing" is that once one has had a relationship with a soul mate, there can be no one else. Or, in Ennis' case, anyone else would be basically 'Jack Lite.'

But that isn't how human psychology works.  Sometimes people do swear off relationships after a soul mate dies, especially if they're quite up in years although that isn't universal by any means. And generally, if a person Ennis' age (39 or 40 when the original story ends) foregoes other relationships they're either going to find some new center of their life: family, creative work, career, etc. or they're at risk for a downward spiral of depression and possible suicide. And a new relationship isn't necessarily a "replacement" for the soul mate, as if any human being can be replaced anyway. Marriages and other long-term commitments start up for all kinds of reasons and a huge amount of acreage of middle ground exists between a grand passion and decades of depression, isolation, sackcloth, ashes and alcohol. A second pairing can certainly include love and sincere commitment, and sometimes with the participants having learned and matured via the earlier relationships.

That whole question was brought up in the 'would Ennis commit suicide' thread, and it's certainly a high risk, how high possibly depending on his ongoing relationship with his daughters and possibly grandchildren if he never did meet anyone else. But it's by no means a done deal that Ennis would become a gay male Wyoming version of Queen Victoria wearing mourning for four decades.

Quote
The fan fiction philosophy here is that if it is based upon or uses characters from BBM - then by all means write it and post it.  My limitation in writing fan fiction stories is that I can't find it in me to rewrite Annie's ending of the story, and so therefore, Jack dies.  Even though I have deeply enjoyed writing Jack flashbacks, and Jack-as-a-ghost in my first story "A Warm Wind Blows", somehow, the idea of resurrecting Jack or diverting the end of the story... eludes me to date.

There are quite a few AU stories I've liked so far, including Somebody New and Madlori's "Farmingdale" series; i.e., Human Interest followed by Two Crows Joy. Generally I do like the ones that keep the characters' background, though; can't quite get into the idea of Ennis and Jack on the Titanic, in 1930s Berlin, in Paris, etc.  At present, I'm trying to read HI simultaneously with your Laramie saga, which means a lot of reading!  :o    What I do object to, and find destructively dogmatic and limiting, is the notion that Ennis in an alternate universe union with Jack or Ennis as a depressed alcoholic are the only "acceptable" alternatives.  Insistence on the latter in particular sometimes has a distinctly vindictive cast to it.

Scott6373

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Re: Fan Fiction - Popularity Contest or Formula for Orthodoxy?
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2006, 09:40:49 am »
I think that folks have an affinity, based on their own life experiences, for either AU or cononical fanfics.  I myself have found that I prefer the latter.  As far as the question that the original thread asks, I most certainly feel that fanficdom is more a popularity contest based on formulaic orthodoxies that have been accepted widely as "the only way" to write J&E's story.  There isn't much room for acceptance if the bullets that Leslie stated are followed to a greater degree.