Author Topic: TOTW 2/09: Questions about Jack's last will particularly his cremation  (Read 9903 times)

Offline Penthesilea

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Hey BetterMostians!


I had an idea for a TOTW and I've gotten a whole load of TOTW suggestions by a collaborating team of three lovely BetterMost Ladies :D.
Thank you very much LauraGigs, Belbbmfan and atz74 for this week's topic and some more!!!

I plan to set up those topics on a biweekly basis. One of the topics will be a quiz, so keep an eye on the Open Forum, all you quizzers and gamesters out there :).


In the long history of BetterMost BBM threads, it's entirely possible that some of these things have already been discussed here and there.  But, it might be fun to repackage and reexamine some of these in fresh ways.
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Questions about Jack's last will
particularly his cremation


Do you think Jack had an official last will, a written testament? In the story Lureen says "He use to say he wanted to be cremated...". In the movie Lureen also uses the phrase "He used to say he wanted [his ashes scattered on Brokeback Mountain]."
Why was he so prepared with a detailed will (if he had a detailed will, that is) and instructions about his burial so young?  Was it unusual for people in Wyoming and Texas to be cremated in the 70s and early 80s?  What were his real expectations regarding Ennis?  Would he have really expected Ennis to get so involved in trying to take his ashes to Brokeback, meeting his parents, etc.?



« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 09:38:56 am by Penthesilea »

Offline Katie77

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I doubt if Jack would have had a written will, at his age.

I think, him telling everyone he wanted his ashes scattered on Brokeback Mountain, was his way of making sure, that in the event of his death, Ennis would know, what the meaning of this request meant. How important HE was to him, and how the place that they met had so much meaning to him. He would have also known, that if his ashes were on Brokeback, then Ennis would have been free to go there without any questions asked.

I guess too, it was his way of saying that he would be there where he felt the greatest amount of peace, where he could be who he really was.

Maybe he also assumed that Brokeback, would be the place that Ennis would request his ashes be scattered as well, so that at least in death they would be together. Of course, Jack did not know he would die before Ennis, so, it is doubtful that Jack would have forseen Ennis meeting his parents or talking to Laureen. I just think that he maybe hoped that they both would eventually be scattered on Brokeback, regardless of who died first.

He also would have known, that if his request was granted, and Ennis was still alive,  then Ennis would be involved in the scattering of his ashes on  Brokeback.

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Offline sel

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To me when Ennis learns from Lureen that Jack wanted his ashes to be scattered on Brokeback Mountain is a very poignant moment. It is Jack telling him indirectly “I want to be with you for eternity”.

I'd like to think that Jack  hadn't written a will but that  he had often mentioned Brokeback Mountain to both Lureen and Bobby as a place where he had been very  happy during his youth, and for this reason he indicated , to Lureen only, that's where he would have liked his ashes to be scattered one day.
No matter how hard he tried, away from Ennis Jack didn't lead a  happy life, he drank heavily, I'd say at times he thought about death, about where he would have liked to rest one day.


He also would have known, that if his request was granted, and Ennis was still alive,  then Ennis would be involved in the scattering of his ashes on  Brokeback.

Yes, that's possible.
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Offline Katie77

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To me when Ennis learns from Lureen that Jack wanted his ashes to be scattered on Brokeback Mountain is a very poignant moment. It is Jack telling him indirectly “I want to be with you for eternity”.


I agree completely....it was Jack's way of speaking from the grave to Ennis.

And maybe not only to Ennis, but to everyone else, saying that is where he belonged, if it was not possilbe in life, then I want it to be in death.
Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect.

It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfection

Offline Front-Ranger

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What a very poignant topic! Thank you, Chrissi, for reviving TOTW, I've missed it. I agree that Jack probably got morose when he was drinking and made some comments about his death. Don't forget that he indulged in death-defying activities like bullriding. With his companeros getting their oil checked with a horn dipstick, death must have been on his mind at times. As a wealthy farm equipment executive, he might have had a will after all. Lureen might have made him set one up shortly after Bobbie was born. He did a lot of travelling, so it might have been the prudent thing to do.
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Yes!  Thanks Chrissi for using this topic for a TOTW.  It's certainly not the most cheery subject, but I think it's interesting to think about. 

I can believe he would have a will at 39.  Yes, like Lee mentions, his family (the Newsome family) was business-minded so it seems very reasonable to expect that they'd think about wills.  Especially since they had a child. 

The division of the ashes between Texas and Wyoming, to me at least, indicates a fair amount of fore-thought on Jack's part about how he'd like things to go upon his death.

To me the most curious thing... is to ponder what Jack actually, realistically expected from Ennis.  Given Ennis's immobility during the course of their relationship... I wonder if Jack truly believed that Ennis would go meet his parents, etc.  I also wonder if Lureen would have been instructed to call Ennis if Ennis hadn't called her first? 

I mean, if Ennis hadn't had the urge to make the phone call... he may never have heard about the ashes request.  Is it at all plausible that Jack thought his father might scatter the ashes since he would have known that his father was familiar with Brokeback, and since the ashes were clearly physically sent to his parents and not to Ennis?

If Jack really wanted Ennis to scatter the ashes (or rather, if he expected Ennis to scatter the ashes... I'm sure he would have wanted him to) wouldn't it have been easier to have the ashes sent directly to Ennis rather than to his parents?

There really are a lot of questions and contingencies here...




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Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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I never thought of this, but here it goes:

I think at 39 he probably had not drawn up a will or made preneed arrangements with a funeral home. His "wealth" was primarilily from his marriage to Lureen so what would he need to have addressed?

As an only child he would in time come to own his parents place, he might want to set up something to address that, make sure Bobby got it when he became old enough, and leave him some personal effects.

I think the part about the ashes being spead on Brokeback would have been addressed primarily in funeral arrangements he would have made, but sound like he just talked about them. If he had, the undertaker would have known where Brokeback was, would probably had instructions to contact Ennis.

But leaving the practical world for a second, I could see this:

"Lastly, to my friend Ennis Del Mar of Riverton, Wyoming, in consideration of deep and abiding affection, I give, devise and bequeth all of my personal property as might be found in the bedroom and closet of my childhood home in Lightning Flat, Wyoming, and direct my aforementioned mother to see that the said personal property remain intact until such time as it can be claimed by him."

She would know. She always did.
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Offline fernly

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Great to see TOTW back! :D

The point mentioned about Jack getting morose while drinking, and talking then about where he wanted his ashes scattered seems very plausible. And he wouldn't have explained any further about where Brokeback was or why it was important to him.

Lureen paid enough attention to remember him mentioning Brokeback, but then she either wasn't interested enough to find out where (and what) it really was, or else any questions she might have asked would have been brushed off same as when Jack brushed his cigarette ashes off his sleeve when she asked him about husbands not ever wanting to dance with their wives.

If he had a will, I'd guess it was pretty much drawn up for him by the company/family lawyer, and if there was any mention in it of disposition of his ashes, his real feelings and wishes wouldn't have been any part of it. Same as his real feelings and wishes weren't any part of his life in Childress.

 
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Offline Brokeback_Dev

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"Lastly, to my friend Ennis Del Mar of Riverton, Wyoming, in consideration of deep and abiding affection, I give, devise and bequeth all of my personal property as might be found in the bedroom and closet of my childhood home in Lightning Flat, Wyoming, and direct my aforementioned mother to see that the said personal property remain intact until such time as it can be claimed by him."

She would know. She always did. 
 
 Awe, thats so sweet of you to write, Truman.

Lureen might have made him set one up shortly after Bobbie was born. He did a lot of travelling, so it might have been the prudent thing to do.

Personally I did have a Last Will and Testament drawn up at an early age of 26yrs old by the family lawyer.  In the event I should die before my daughter turned 18, I named who I chose to be her guardian.  Also, she is named as the heir to my estate.  At 26 I didnt have much, although these days I do have some stuff including a house I own with my husband

Its funny that this is the TOTW because I was reading my Will just last week, and decided not to change it even tough she 21 now.  Gotta plan for my daughter to be taken care of with whatever I can in the event of my passing..

I hope Jack would want Ennis to scatter his ashes on Brokeback Mountain.  The place where he and Ennis fell in love. 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 07:07:25 am by Brokeback_Dev »

Offline Katie77

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Dev, just a word of advice about your will.........I am fairly sure, that once a person marries, any will that they have written before that marriage becomes null and void.

Might be an idea to check that up.
Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect.

It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfection

Offline Brokeback_Dev

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Re: TOTW 2/09: Questions about Jack's last will respectively his cremation
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2009, 11:27:16 pm »
Dev, just a word of advice about your will.........I am fairly sure, that once a person marries, any will that they have written before that marriage becomes null and void.

Might be an idea to check that up.

OK thanks, Sue.  I'll check it out.  It just seems so easy to already have the legal document already to go...    Figures there'd be a glitch.

Offline Artiste

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Re: TOTW 2/09: Questions about Jack's last will respectively his cremation
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2009, 11:32:06 pm »
I dare not say something about cremation, because some or many of you will dislike that idea!

It is however a HUGE puzzle: WHY DID JACK ask for cremation?

Offline Katie77

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Re: TOTW 2/09: Questions about Jack's last will particularly his cremation
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2009, 05:21:21 am »
He obviously asked for cremation, so his ashes could be scattered on Brokeback Mountain.
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Offline Brokeback_Dev

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Re: TOTW 2/09: Questions about Jack's last will particularly his cremation
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2009, 07:09:13 am »
He obviously asked for cremation, so his ashes could be scattered on Brokeback Mountain.

So true, it brings on the tears in my eyes.   :'(

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: TOTW 2/09: Questions about Jack's last will respectively his cremation
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2009, 08:57:37 am »
Dev, just a word of advice about your will.........I am fairly sure, that once a person marries, any will that they have written before that marriage becomes null and void.

Might be an idea to check that up.

I think laws governing wills vary hugely from country to country and from state to state within the U.S.  Not that it involved the issue of marriage, but we got a taste of how complex a will can be with all the complications that came up with Heath's will.


Anyway,  I agree that Jack's decision to be cremated was probably very deliberately about wanting to have his ashes scattered on Brokeback.  How he thought Ennis would get a hold of them, I suppose will remain one of those big unanswered questions.

My grandparents on my Dad's side were cremated.  I personally think it's a nice idea. 



 
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Katie77

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Re: TOTW 2/09: Questions about Jack's last will particularly his cremation
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2009, 09:23:04 am »


Anyway,  I agree that Jack's decision to be cremated was probably very deliberately about wanting to have his ashes scattered on Brokeback.  How he thought Ennis would get a hold of them, I suppose will remain one of those big unanswered questions.

 



 

We  have to remember, that Jack did not know that he would die before Ennis. So it is likely, that by telling his family he wanted his ashes scattered on Brokeback, he was expecting THEM to carry out his wishes. Even if they did not know where it was, if they wanted to honour his wish, they would have found it on a map.

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Re: TOTW 2/09: Questions about Jack's last will particularly his cremation
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2009, 09:25:50 am »
my take.

It is unusual for a person that young (and at that age) to make such specific instructions for his burial.

and we all know that Jack was a talker and dreamer.

so

I think he talked about his love for Brokeback Mountain because he COULDN'T talk about his love for Ennis. for him BBM was a standin, a safe way to reminice about that time with Ennis...and the spreading of the ashes was just a continuation of that talk...

Offline Artiste

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Re: TOTW 2/09: Questions about Jack's last will particularly his cremation
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2009, 10:55:48 am »
I do not think that there were ashes at all, maybe.

That was a way to tell something, like Jack is still alive!

I tend to view it like that as a possibility!

Offline Katie77

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Re: TOTW 2/09: Questions about Jack's last will particularly his cremation
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2009, 12:18:44 pm »
my take.

It is unusual for a person that young (and at that age) to make such specific instructions for his burial.

and we all know that Jack was a talker and dreamer.

so

I think he talked about his love for Brokeback Mountain because he COULDN'T talk about his love for Ennis. for him BBM was a standin, a safe way to reminice about that time with Ennis...and the spreading of the ashes was just a continuation of that talk...

 Jess, Jake was 38 when he died,not a young teenager.

I agree that Jack obviously did talk about Brokeback, maybe to bring that part of his life into the life he was now living...and probably when he had been drinking and reminiscing about his past. I doubt if it would have been written down, even if he did have a written will, but he probably got drunk enough times and mentioned it enough times that Laureen heard it enough to know that Brokeback was where he wanted to end up.
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: TOTW 2/09: Questions about Jack's last will particularly his cremation
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2009, 03:11:13 pm »
Artiste, you got me to thinking...Jack narrowly escaped being struck by lightning up on Brokenback, and Aguirre held it against him that sheep died, as if he could control the weather. But in the end he did control something about his own death. He asked for cremation, so in the end he was destroyed by fire. It was a bitterly fitting end for the man from Lightning Flat, high on the Wyoming plateau almost within sight of Devil's Tower.

Jack was reborn in a way, as his ashes would have fertilized the flowers that grow on Brokeback Mountain. The pasque flowers are beginning to show their buds right now, I'm sure!!
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Offline Monika

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Re: TOTW 2/09: Questions about Jack's last will particularly his cremation
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2009, 08:37:01 pm »
I have always imagined that Jack ranted about having "his ashes scattered up on Brokeback Mountain" when he´d had too much to drink. Which is something I imagined happened every now and then.

Offline Monika

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Re: TOTW 2/09: Questions about Jack's last will respectively his cremation
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2009, 08:39:55 pm »
To me when Ennis learns from Lureen that Jack wanted his ashes to be scattered on Brokeback Mountain is a very poignant moment. It is Jack telling him indirectly “I want to be with you for eternity”.



that´s a beautiful way of putting it.

I think that that time on Brokeback Mountain, was the only true happy time in Jack´s life. So of course that´s where he wanted to have his ashes scattered. I think that Brokeback Mountain was the only place ever, where he truley felt loved for who he really was.

Offline Monika

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Re: TOTW 2/09: Questions about Jack's last will particularly his cremation
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2009, 08:44:58 pm »
Artiste, you got me to thinking...Jack narrowly escaped being struck by lightning up on Brokenback, and Aguirre held it against him that sheep died, as if he could control the weather. But in the end he did control something about his own death. He asked for cremation, so in the end he was destroyed by fire. It was a bitterly fitting end for the man from Lightning Flat, high on the Wyoming plateau almost within sight of Devil's Tower.

:'( :'(

beautifully put, Lee!

Offline Artiste

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Re: TOTW 2/09: Questions about Jack's last will particularly his cremation
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2009, 09:53:28 pm »
Merci Front-Ranger !

You are very poetic and remarkably thinking, connecting, in saying:
      Artiste, you got me to thinking...Jack narrowly escaped being struck by lightning up on Brokenback, and Aguirre held it against him that sheep died, as if he could control the weather. But in the end he did control something about his own death. He asked for cremation, so in the end he was destroyed by fire. It was a bitterly fitting end for the man from Lightning Flat, high on the Wyoming plateau almost within sight of Devil's Tower.

Jack was reborn in a way, as his ashes would have fertilized the flowers that grow on Brokeback Mountain. The pasque flowers are beginning to show their buds right now, I'm sure!!
                 


Front-Ranger, you are describing Easter! That? Or a religion named by either Ennis and/or Jack?

I still think that there could be OTHER scenarios, like Jack is still ALIVE, very much so; but why cremation? A ruse?

Au revoir,
hugs!