Gay Marriage Sinks Miss California's shot at Crown

[oilgun]

Are you sure that you're cringing because these guys are homosexuals?? Or are you cringing because they flamboyantly effeminate?? If its the former, then you might be right about internalized homophobia. If its the latter, then its simply a distaste for effeminacy.

Personally, when I see a homosexual character on TV or in the movies who is not effeminate, I actually feel uplifted. Its the effeminate characters that make me cringe.

Effeminate men are usually assumed to be homosexual until proven straight, so the way I see it , a distaste for effeminacy IS homophobia.  It's all part of that patriarchal system where men have a higher social standing,  So when a man is perceived to be acting like a woman, he is "debasing" himself and conversely, women who act like men are actually worthy of respect for attempting to elevate their status.

[milomorris]

Effeminate men are usually assumed to be homosexual until proven straight, so the way I see it , a distaste for effeminacy IS homophobia.  It's all part of that patriarchal system where men have a higher social standing,  So when a man is perceived to be acting like a woman, he is "debasing" himself and conversely, women who act like men are actually worthy of respect for attempting to elevate their status.

But we know that in the real world there are heterosexual men who exhibit effeminacy. Effeminacy and homosexuality are not synonymous unless we're willing to accept that the stereotype is always true. Moreover, my experience has been that people who are truly not homophobic are comfortable with a masculine homosexual male, whereas an effeminate guy illicits a "cringe" factor. 

I also have to say that women who are too masculine do lose some respect and cause some psychological friction among others. Just not nearly as much as effeminate men.

[louisev]

Miss California to Campaign Against Gay Marriage

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/30/miss-california-carrie-pr_0_n_193503.html

NEW YORK - The reigning Miss California has gone to Washington to help launch a campaign opposing same-sex marriage.

Carrie Prejean told NBC's "Today" show Thursday that she'll be working with the National Organization for Marriage to "protect traditional marriages."

The 21-year-old says that marriage is "something that is very dear to my heart" and she's in Washington to help save it.

She says many people have thanked her for standing up for traditional marriage.

Prejean was named the first runner-up to Miss North Carolina in the Miss USA pageant April 19. Her response to celebrity blogger Perez Hilton's question about legalizing same-sex marriage may have cost her the title.

[oilgun]

But we know that in the real world there are heterosexual men who exhibit effeminacy. Effeminacy and homosexuality are not synonymous unless we're willing to accept that the stereotype is always true. Moreover, my experience has been that people who are truly not homophobic are comfortable with a masculine homosexual male, whereas an effeminate guy illicits a "cringe" factor. 

I also have to say that women who are too masculine do lose some respect and cause some psychological friction among others. Just not nearly as much as effeminate men.

I never said that effeminacy was synonymous with homosexuality.  I also live in the real world (a very different one, evidently) but in my experience if a man shows effeminate traits he is at least suspected of being gay, because of the stereotypes.  The so-called (straight) metrosexuals are usually suspect because of their attention to fashion and personal grooming.  All the ones that I've known have mentioned that people often assume they are gay.  Just because effeminate men come in all sexualities doesn't mean that the cringe factor they elicit in people isn't due to homophobia. 

If not homophobia, how would you explain the aversion to effeminacy in men?

[milomorris]

If not homophobia, how would you explain the aversion to effeminacy in men?

1. Effeminacy is synonymous with weakness. Some people here disagree with that, as I discovered a couple of months ago when the topic came up over at Modern Manhood. Nevertheless, several dictionaries include "weak," or "weakness" in their definition of effeminacy.

2. Any gender atypical behavior causes psychological friction. Even as children, other boys tell us things like "you throw like a girl," sometimes to poke fun, sometimes to correct the errant behavior. This identification of gender atypical behavior precedes any understanding of sexual orientation.   

[louisev]

can you please bring your loud condemnations of femininity and effeminacy BACK to your blog?  That has nothing to do with this topic about gay marriage and the Miss USA pageant at ALL.

[milomorris]

can you please bring your loud condemnations of femininity and effeminacy BACK to your blog?  That has nothing to do with this topic about gay marriage and the Miss USA pageant at ALL.

1. I didn't bring up effeminacy, oilgun did. So don't blame me for taking this thread off topic.

2. I have NEVER condemned femininity. Stop putting words in my mouth.

3. I can and will discuss my POV on effeminacy wherever the subject presents itself. It is not a topic to be discussed on Modern Manhood only.


Rx

[louisev]

Your "POV on effeminacy" is derailing this thread. We've had several very long and torturous debates about it and that isn't the subject of this tread.  Everybody who has been here more than a week has gotten a full exposure to it already, please have some consideration for those who don't want to read it again in unrelated threads for the umpteenth time.

[injest]

can you please bring your loud condemnations of femininity and effeminacy BACK to your blog?  That has nothing to do with this topic about gay marriage and the Miss USA pageant at ALL.

he is responding to an ongoing conversation. that is very much in line with Bettermost policy as I understand it. I can call up a half dozen examples in no time if you would like?

[injest]

But we know that in the real world there are heterosexual men who exhibit effeminacy. Effeminacy and homosexuality are not synonymous unless we're willing to accept that the stereotype is always true. Moreover, my experience has been that people who are truly not homophobic are comfortable with a masculine homosexual male, whereas an effeminate guy illicits a "cringe" factor. 

I also have to say that women who are too masculine do lose some respect and cause some psychological friction among others. Just not nearly as much as effeminate men.

I agree. Men love a tomboy...as long as she isn't TOO much of a tomboy. Women are expected to maintain a certain level of femininity or they face harassment too.