Author Topic: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?  (Read 14328 times)

Offline Front-Ranger

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The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« on: May 24, 2009, 01:45:49 pm »
The strange juxtaposition of sparkly high heels and bobby sox made me think about this movie and its many interesting subtexts. The first thing I thought of was the three witches, Glenda, Dorothy, and the Wicked Witch of the West, Maiden, Madonna, and Crone. Shall we discuss?
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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2009, 01:57:55 pm »
Another interesting facet was the way the men in Dorothy's life got transformed in her dream into incomplete men, and she was in charge of making sure they were completed.
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Offline David In Indy

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2009, 02:47:11 pm »
Those are interesting observations Lee. I never thought about it like that before, but I think you may be on to something here. :)

I've always felt TWoO had a misogynistic tinge to it. With the exception of the Witch of the North, the women in the movie are not all that admirable. Miss Gultch was absolutely horrible, Aunt Em is cold and callous, The Witch of the West is evil, Dorothy is a naive girl who depends on men to take care of her.....

But then we must remember this story was written in the late 1800s and the movie was filmed in 1939. I've often wondered if the movie would be received in such a positive light had it been released in this day and age. :-\

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Offline delalluvia

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2009, 06:05:11 pm »
Those are interesting observations Lee. I never thought about it like that before, but I think you may be on to something here. :)

I've always felt TWoO had a misogynistic tinge to it. With the exception of the Witch of the North, the women in the movie are not all that admirable. Miss Gultch was absolutely horrible, Aunt Em is cold and callous, The Witch of the West is evil, Dorothy is a naive girl who depends on men to take care of her.....

But then we must remember this story was written in the late 1800s and the movie was filmed in 1939. I've often wondered if the movie would be received in such a positive light had it been released in this day and age.

Probably not.  The adventure starts because Dorothy is wanting out of her dead-end existence, and throughout the movie Dorothy is taught a harsh lesson about women out in the world, and the final lesson and indeed her goal throughout the movie is not for her to be independent, not for her not wander the world, not to seek adventures (everything she wanted when she ran away), it's for her to just stay at home and finally that's what she wants, too.   :P
« Last Edit: May 24, 2009, 11:40:33 pm by delalluvia »

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2009, 10:55:48 pm »
Dorothy is a naive girl who depends on men to take care of her.....

If you're going to look at it that way, then it seems to me she learns in the end that she doesn't need a man to take care of her. She always had the power to go home. She just had to gain confidence in herself to use it.  :)
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2009, 11:10:11 pm »
Dorothy is a naive girl who depends on men to take care of her.....

Hunh, I don't look at it that way at all. Dorothy was the leader of her little group in Oz, and without her bravery and determination they'd still be hanging around wishing they had brain, heart and courage. All the male characters were missing something, including the Wizard, who was rather clueless and ineffective. Dorothy was the only complete person. They turned to her because THEY needed something, but without them she would have forged on alone until she achieved her goal.

I also don't think Aunt Em is supposed to come across as cold and callous -- I think she was supposed to be loving. But maternal figures in those days were more stern.

On the other hand, what bothers ME about it is that Dorothy is so desperate to get back to a place that, let's face it, is rather bleak.


Offline David In Indy

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2009, 11:18:30 pm »
There's all kinds of different ways to interpret that movie. :)

However, it remains one of my favorites! They used to show it once a year on TV when I was little and I always looked forward to watching it. Except I remember the witch scared me. I didn't like to hear her cackle. Oh, and the flying monkeys were frightening as well.

They STILL scare me a little. :laugh:


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Offline LauraGigs

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2009, 11:32:08 pm »
. . . what bothers ME about it is that Dorothy is so desperate to get back to a place that, let's face it, is rather bleak.

I think that place in Kansas parallels Lightning Flat in a lot of ways.  Jack was desperate to get "anywhere but Lightning Flat" according to the story.  And straying too far from the herd (the sheep, Earl) always had a danger to it.  BBM can be interpreted as a cautionary tale against caution (Ennis's) but also against being overly adventuresome, like Jack.

Offline Lynne

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2009, 11:46:08 pm »
I don't have any great insights at the moment, but I just want to say this is a terrific thread - what a unique concept to ponder!  Thank you FriendLee.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2009, 01:24:25 am »
There's all kinds of different ways to interpret that movie. :)

I've long been interested in all the ways one can interpret TWoO, which is like America's fairy tale (as opposed to most fairy tales we're familiar with, which are European in origin). Here are a couple the many possibilities:

1) I once attended a historical conference where a professor presented a paper about TWoO as an economic parable full of symbols for economic trends and characters that were prominent at the time of its publication. In this scheme, Dorothy represented Everyman, the Scarecrow was the farmer, the Tinman was the factory worker, the yellow-brick road was the gold standard, the Emerald City was the greenback, and the Cowardly Lion was William Jennings Bryan (don't ask me the logic of that last one -- I can't remember the reasoning). I wrote about this once in connection with the big annual Judy Garland celebration in Grand Rapids, MN, Judy's hometown.

2) I once read a book called Oz. It was about Dorothy, an awkward, unhappy orphan around the turn of the 20th century, sent to live with her aunt and uncle on an incredibly bleak, grim farm on the isolated prairie in Kansas. Aunt Em was distant and emotionally unavailable. Uncle Henry started sexually abusing Dorothy. She had a school teacher named L. Frank Baum, who took pity on her and fantasized about Dorothy escaping her depressing existence by escaping to a marvelous colorful land.

These chapters alternated with chapters about young Judy Garland, her drug struggles, etc., and chapters about a guy in present time who had AIDS.

TWoO also figured into my early writing career. The very first book I ever tried to write was TWoO (I didn't realize you had to come up with a whole new book of your own; I thought you could just write what you knew, a book you were already familiar with). I remember I was so young that I spelled "of," "uv." My dad gently corrected me, and I've never misspelled it since (at least that I know uv).




Offline David In Indy

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2009, 01:32:25 am »
I've long been interested in all the ways one can interpret TWoO, which is like America's fairy tale (as opposed to most fairy tales we're familiar with, which are European in origin). Here are a couple the many possibilities:

1) I once attended a historical conference where a professor presented a paper about TWoO as an economic parable full of symbols for economic trends and characters that were prominent at the time of its publication. In this scheme, Dorothy represented Everyman, the Scarecrow was the farmer, the Tinman was the factory worker, the yellow-brick road was the gold standard, the Emerald City was the greenback, and the Cowardly Lion was William Jennings Bryan (don't ask me the logic of that last one -- I can't remember the reasoning). I wrote about this once in connection with the big annual Judy Garland celebration in Grand Rapids, MN, Judy's hometown.

2) I once read a book called Oz. It was about Dorothy, an awkward, unhappy orphan around the turn of the 20th century, sent to live with her aunt and uncle on an incredibly bleak, grim farm on the isolated prairie in Kansas. Aunt Em was distant and emotionally unavailable. Uncle Henry started sexually abusing Dorothy. She had a school teacher named L. Frank Baum, who took pity on her and fantasized about Dorothy escaping her depressing existence by escaping to a marvelous colorful land.

These chapters alternated with chapters about young Judy Garland, her drug struggles, etc., and chapters about a guy in present time who had AIDS.

TWoO also figured into my early writing career. The very first book I ever tried to write was TWoO (I didn't realize you had to come up with a whole new book of your own; I thought you could just write what you knew, a book you were already familiar with). I remember I was so young that I spelled "of," "uv." My dad gently corrected me, and I've never misspelled it since (at least that I know uv).




Ooops! There you go! ;)

Interesting Katherine. Thanks for sharing that with us. I tend to agree with #2 a bit more than I do #1. And I STILL think there is a slight misogynistic theme to the story, but that might just be me. :)

Judy Garland died when I was around 7 years old, and it didn't escape the news here nor my young ears. I remember asking my Mom how she died and Mom told me she died from taking too much aspirin. :-\

For years and years I believed that. I suppose Mom felt I was too young to understand how she really died.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2009, 01:44:36 am »
And I STILL think there is a slight misogynistic theme to the story, but that might just be me. :)

Oh, everybody's completely entitled to his/her own interpretation, David!  :)

Quote
Judy Garland died when I was around 7 years old, and it didn't escape the news here nor my young ears. I remember asking my Mom how she died and Mom told me she died from taking too much aspirin. :-\

For years and years I believed that. I suppose Mom felt I was too young to understand how she really died.

Actually, that seems like a pretty good explanation level for a 7-year-old!



Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2009, 09:49:41 am »
Oh, and the flying monkeys were frightening as well.

The cyclone did it for me.  :(
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2009, 09:56:11 am »
The Cowardly Lion was William Jennings Bryan (don't ask me the logic of that last one -- I can't remember the reasoning).

Well, he sorta looks like William Jennings Bryan. ...

Did the professor claim Baum was trying to make a coherent point, or was he just using things? Bryan was the big champion of free coinage of silver, famous for his "Cross of Gold" speech. I'm not sure what Baum would be saying by having Bryan follow the yellow brick road of the Gold Standard, unless Baum disagreed with Bryan's position.  ???
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 04:08:46 pm by Jeff Wrangler »
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2009, 10:20:51 am »
Did the professor claim Baum was trying to make a coherent point, or was he just using things? Bryan was the big champion of free coinage of silver, famous for his "Cross of Gold" speach. I'm not sure what Baum would be saying by having Bryan follow the yellow brick road of the Gold Standard, unless Baum disagreed with Bryan's position.  ???

Isn't Wikipedia amazing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wonderful_Wizard_of_Oz#The_Gold_Standard_representation_of_the_story

Quote
The Gold Standard representation of the story
See also: Political interpretations of The Wonderful Wizard of Oz

Some scholars have theorized that the images and characters used by Baum and Denslow closely resembled political images that were well known in the 1890s, specifically the debate of the day regarding monetary policy: the "Yellow Brick Road" represents the gold standard, the silver slippers (which were ruby slippers in the film version) represent the sixteen to one silver ratio (dancing down the road). Many other characters and story lines represent identifiable people or circumstances of the day. The wicked witches of the east and west represented the local banks and the railroad industry, respectively, both of which drove small farmers out of business. The scarecrow represents the farmers of the Populist party, who managed to get out of debt by making more silver coinage. The return to bimetalism would increase inflation, thus lowering the real value of their debts. The Tin Woodman represents the factory workers of the industrialized North, whom the Populists saw as being so hard-pressed to work grueling hours for little money that the workers had lost their human hearts and become mechanized themselves. (See Second Industrial Revolution) Toto was thought to be short for teetotaler, another word for a prohibitionist; it should be noted that William Jennings Bryan, the fiery popular candidate (possibly the Lion character) from the Populist Party, was a teetotaler himself. Bryan also fits the allegorical reference to the Cowardly Lion in that he retreated from his support of free silver after economic conditions improved in the late 1890s. However, it has also been suggested the cowardly Lion represented Wall Street investors, given the economic climate of the time. The Munchkins represented the common people (serfdom), while the emerald city represented Washington and its green-paper money delusion. The Wizard, a charlatan who tricks people into believing he wields immense power, would represent the President. The kiss from the Good Witch of the North is the electoral mandate; Dorothy must destroy the Wicked Witch of the West—the old West Coast "establishment" (money) with water (the US was suffering from drought). Moreover, "Oz" is the abbreviation for the measuring of these precious metals: ounces.

Some biographers and scholars of Baum disagree, pointing to details of Baum's biography, his own statements and writing about the purpose of his book, and the lack of contemporary press discussing these perceived metaphors. The consensus is that the books are written solely for the pleasure of Baum's younger readers, to give them a sense of possibility and imagination.

Here are a couple of scholarly articles about "Oz: a Parable on Populism," for those who want MUCH more detail. The former looks like more fun to read, but I believe the latter disputes the former.

http://www.amphigory.com/oz.htm


http://www.halcyon.com/piglet/Populism.htm




Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2009, 04:48:57 pm »
Quote
Bryan also fits the allegorical reference to the Cowardly Lion in that he retreated from his support of free silver after economic conditions improved in the late 1890s.

That could explain it.  :)
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2009, 04:57:24 pm »
I didn't realize the movie will be 70 this year, so we are likely to be hearing a lot about it. An interesting factoid is that the shoes were originally silver in the story. The producers changed them to red to show off their Technicolor technology. Dang, that blows my theory about Dorothy putting on the red dress shoes.
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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2012, 03:37:08 pm »
Time to bump this thread in honour of Judy Garland's birthday (as Jeff Wrangler [thanks, Jeff] reminded us)! Guess who's on tap to play Ms. Garland in a biopic? Our own Anne Hathaway!! If Michelle = Marilyn Monroe, then Anne = Judy Garland!!

Anyone remember that old movie with Sean Connery called Zardoz? Why would that be relevant here, I wonder???
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2012, 04:15:00 pm »
If you pay close attention to The Wizard of Oz, you can catch a reference to a segment that was not included in the final version of the film.

As the Wicked Witch of the West sends her flying monkeys to capture Dorothy and Toto, she tells them that she has sent an insect ahead of the monkeys "to take the fight out of them" (Dorothy and the others). The witch's comment about the insect is a reference to a musical number called "The Jitterbug," which remains in existence on film but was not included in the final cut.
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Offline southendmd

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2012, 05:35:29 pm »
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYHeW5_lYaY&feature=related[/youtube]

The Jitterbug!

Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2012, 06:55:29 pm »



    I can definitely see why they cut that out.  Wow.. its annoying.



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Offline Marina

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2012, 03:01:38 pm »
I love the Wizard of Oz.   I always saw it as about four friends - Dorothy is independent - she's going to find her way home, and if the others want to come along, fine, but she's still going.   I always loved the ruby slippers - the bobby sox and more grown up shoes are like she's on the cusp of her becoming an adult woman.   I always loved that the Tin Man, the Cowardly Lion, the Scarecrow and Dorothy are looking for the qualities they already possess.   I loved Wicked too.  :)
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Offline TOoP/Bruce

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2012, 07:57:22 am »
Many people don't realize the Judy Garland version of The Wonderful Wizard of Oz was actually the third filmed version, previous versions were made in 1910 and 1925:[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbbSTcjnfQ0[/youtube]
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBnXAKPwplQ[/youtube]
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Offline Aloysius J. Gleek

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2012, 09:56:32 am »


[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOROvO2fxTc[/youtube]
.


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Offline TOoP/Bruce

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2012, 04:20:03 pm »
an Oz blooper reel...

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_qodDo4cXo&feature=fvwrel[/youtube]
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2012, 11:30:15 am »
Some of those are pretty funny, Bruce!

The munchkin screaming before the witch smoke actually appears -- I could swear I've registered that subliminally over my many viewings. I guess I just figured the munchkin saw something I didn't.


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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2012, 12:34:20 pm »
Some of those are pretty funny, Bruce!

The munchkin screaming before the witch smoke actually appears -- I could swear I've registered that subliminally over my many viewings. I guess I just figured the munchkin saw something I didn't.



They didn't include my favorite blooper....

When Dorothy is done dancing around the spiral that leads out of Oz and turns to wave goodbye to the munchkins, she looks like she is standing in front of a painted backdrop.  

It is actually a composite shot with a matte painting.  

If you look all the way to the right of the screen, you can see the heads of the munchkins disappearing underneath the flowers they are supposed to be standing in front of.
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Offline CellarDweller

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2013, 01:11:02 pm »


There’s no place like the Internet.

An old one-line movie blurb has gone viral this week thanks to mentions all over the world wide web. In 1998, for a Wizard of Oz listing on TCM, writer Rick Polito wrote, “Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the first person she meets and then teams up with three strangers to kill again.”

This morning, Polito told JimRomensko.com, “That line is going to follow me to the grave. It was just on Leno, it was a clue in a crossword puzzle, it showed up in Playboy, and people use it as their email sigs.”

http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/10/26/wizard-of-oz-movie-description/


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Offline brianr

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2013, 03:12:13 pm »
I taught a Rick Polito way back in 1979 and he occasionally makes contact. I checked he still lives in Australia so a different one. I sent him this article in case he has not seen it. ;D

Offline delalluvia

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Re: The Wizard of OZ: A cautionary tale for girls?
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2013, 06:56:06 pm »




http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/10/26/wizard-of-oz-movie-description/

Now, now.  Dorothy didn't exactlymeet the Wicked Witch of the East.  Her untimely demise was due to an act of god (tornado) and being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

As for the 2nd victim...I'd say it was a clear case of stand your ground.  :P  ;)

Reminds me of that description of Jedi Warriors, if I can remember correctly.  Goes like

"There are two monks here.  They are wielding an unstoppable weapon, can do amazing physical feats, can move objects with a thought, and are versed in mind control.  They say they're here to negotiate."  :laugh: