Author Topic: Making sexist (and classist) jokes about conservative women  (Read 11602 times)

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Making sexist (and classist) jokes about conservative women
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2009, 12:35:49 am »

Palin has a much bigger issue at hand right now - trying to justify the legislation to spend $26 billion dollars to build a natural gas pipeline from the North Slope  when natural gas sources in the lower 48 are shuttered due to the low price of natural gas.

So, tail wagging the dog?

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Making sexist (and classist) jokes about conservative women
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2009, 01:19:38 am »
True, Palin has every right as a mother to get defensive about her daughter.

Then on the other hand, Letterman insists he meant Bristol, who Palin herself thought old enough and mature enough to make the decision to keep her child and to marry at 16-17 years of age.  Bristol is 18, she's an adult now and fair game and perfectly capable of defending herself.  She's definitely young, but not a child anymore.

True, but joking about even an 18-year-old getting "knocked up" by a baseball player during the 7th-inning stretch is pretty classless. Heck, it would be classless if the daughter were 35.


Offline delalluvia

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Re: Making sexist (and classist) jokes about conservative women
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2009, 10:47:53 am »
True, but joking about even an 18-year-old getting "knocked up" by a baseball player during the 7th-inning stretch is pretty classless. Heck, it would be classless if the daughter were 35.

Letterman is classless.  His humor has never been mistaken for high brow.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Making sexist (and classist) jokes about conservative women
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2009, 11:13:31 am »
Letterman is classless.  His humor has never been mistaken for high brow.

No, but I might have characterized it as "intelligent frat boy" -- vs. unintelligent frat boy, as in much of SNL. The "knocked up" joke took intelligence out of the equation.


 

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Making sexist (and classist) jokes about conservative women
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2009, 02:15:11 pm »
Another entry in the Salon women's blog that reinforces my earlier point, about easily muddied waters:

Letterman and Palin: Both jerks!
The comedian's jokes about the Alaska governor and her daughter were out of line. So is her response.

Kate Harding

Jun. 12, 2009 |


We are through the looking glass, people. I actually kind of agree with Sarah Palin. Kind of. On the "Today" show this morning, she continued taking Letterman to task for his recent sexist remarks -- calling Palin "slutty" and making a crack about Alex Rodriguez knocking up an unnamed Palin daughter during a baseball game -- using language that was well nigh feminist. Regardless of any excuses Letterman has offered, she said, "It was a degrading comment about a young woman." Agreed. "It's a sad commentary on where we are as a culture, as a society," that people laugh at cheap, misogynistic jokes. Yep! Such jokes, as expressions of systematic sexism (which, OK, she didn't say), contribute to "the acceptance of abuse of young women." Yes, yes they do, actually. "I would hope that people really start -- really rising up and deciding it's not acceptable." Me too!

But, of course, she couldn't possibly quit while she was ahead.

The problem is, the daughter who attended the ballgame with her was 14-year-old Willow, but Letterman has stated the nasty joke was meant to be about 18-year-old Bristol. On his show Wednesday, Letterman said, "I can't really defend the joke, I agree, unpleasant, ugly, but I would never, never think that it was funny to use a 14-year-old girl as joke like this, for God's sake." There is no reason on earth to assume Letterman's lying about that -- Bristol, not Willow, has spent the last year being the poster child for teen pregnancy -- so naturally, that's exactly what Palin assumes. She called Matt Lauer "extremely naive" for taking Letterman's explanation of his genuine mistake (as opposed to his jerky behavior, which is a separate issue) at face value. Both she and her husband, Todd, have been framing this as a joke that makes light of statutory rape, as opposed to the mean-spirited, sexist, wholly inappropriate joke about an 18-year-old it actually was. Todd said in a statement yesterday, "Regardless of which Palin daughter it was, Bristol, Willow or Piper, these sexually perverted comments are outside the acceptance of mainstream America." Dude, what? Did you really just drag little Piper into this, too?

Therein lies the problem with trying to defend Sarah Palin from a feminist perspective. She and her daughters do not deserve sexist attacks any more than Hillary Clinton, Gloria Steinem or your mom do, and she's absolutely right that what Letterman said was out of line and indefensible. She's absolutely right that jokes like that contribute to an oppressive culture for women and young girls. But on this rare occasion when she's absolutely right about a couple of things, she can't just stop there. She has to blow straight past reasonable outrage and into disingenuous, over-the-top accusations.

Earlier this week, a Palin spokesperson said in a statement, "It would be wise to keep Willow away from David Letterman." When Lauer asked her about that, she said, "Hey, take it however you want to take it." OK, here's how I take it: You're implying that Letterman's a pedophile. Nice. See also: calling the jokes "sexually perverted," which they weren't, instead of "sexist and tasteless," which they were. So now here I am, inspired to defend Letterman from spurious attacks on his character, when I should be reinforcing the accurate attacks on his character in response to his spurious and sexist attacks on yours and your oldest daughter's. Why do you torment me so, Sarah Palin? Letterman said unequivocally offensive things, and he deserves to be condemned for them. But now, so have you, which complicates the matter of defending you as a fellow woman. Don't get me wrong; I will always denounce anyone who calls you a slut, or any other misogynistic slur. You don't deserve it, and that crap hurts all women. But if someone wants to call you a liar and a loon? You're on your own, lady.


Offline mariez

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Re: Making sexist (and classist) jokes about conservative women
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2009, 02:47:11 pm »
Thanks, Katherine.  Those are both very well-written blog entries.  I think it was Cher who once went on Letterman's show and called him an a**hole, and I wouldn't disagree with that.  But a pedophile or someone who condones pedophilia?  Um, no.

Quote
But, of course, she couldn't possibly quit while she was ahead.

Of course not.  And so it goes ....
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline louisev

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Re: Making sexist (and classist) jokes about conservative women
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2009, 02:53:10 pm »
I absolutely agree, Katherine.  I watched Letterman's 7 minute explanation - I dont think it was ever meant as an apology, nor do I think he called it an apology.  It was more of a clarifying reply and of course, an effort to keep digging at it.  Letterman is not a newsman, he's not a journalist.  He's a comedian.  And as he said - repeatedly - tasteless jokes are his stock in trade.  And he doesn't deny the tastelessness of any of his Palin jokes.  But if Palin thinks that Dave Letterman keeps a list of which daughters she brought to the ballgame and which ages they all are to make certain there isn't some inadvertent implication that he was joking about her 14 year old and not her adult daughter (after all, the entire joke hinged on the fact that Bristol was already, in fact, an adult, and already "knocked up" and that was the entire point of the joke in the first place - so CLEARLY he was talking about Bristol whether or not in actual fact she was the one accompanying Palin to the ball game.)   That is carrying the thing to levels of umbrage reserved only for those who are trying to make the entire thing about themselves.

And something tells me Letterman did it to flush her out.  He was determined to keep the focus on so that Palin would come out, sixguns blazing and overreact, thus making his point better.  It is hard to play straight man to Letterman, since he was joking to begin with.  It does remind me a lot of Joe Scarborough's reaction to Jon Stewart's segments about the "Morning Joe" show getting Starbucks endorsements.  Scarborough called Stewart "a very angry little man with a Napoleonic complex" thus opening the door to Stewart raising the ante and doing a sketch piece with a Napoleon outfit, a French accent suitable for Monty Python, and a very small white pony.  Clearly, Joe Scarborough is not going to get Stewart to really take him seriously or get offended by being called "little".  He knows how short he is, and he pokes fun at that all the time.

Letterman's laid his cards on the table with his tastelessness.  He hasn't been any more tasteless with Sarah Palin than he has been with any other targets of his barbed satire.  It's a no-win for Palin, though.  And they said liberals were humorless!
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline delalluvia

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Palin flap may help Letterman ratings
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2009, 11:52:44 pm »

The story had the effect of turning the attention to Letterman at a critical time, during the second week of his new competition with Leno's replacement, Conan O'Brien.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090614/ap_en_ot/us_tv_letterman

Offline louisev

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Re: Making sexist (and classist) jokes about conservative women
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2009, 11:56:50 pm »
Letterman is all about the ratings.

And in fact, he should have hit on this schtick earlier, because as SNL showed, Sarah Palin is comedy gold.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: Making sexist (and classist) jokes about conservative women
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2009, 04:22:48 pm »
    Well the truth is I do see everyones point here.  However, It is an odd thing that the NOW, org. supposed the standard
bearer for women.  Never uttered a single syllable when Janet Reno, Hillary Clinton, and former secretaries of state Condoleza Rice and Madalyn Albright were being summarily degraded with worse words and denegrations.  Why now, why with Mrs Palin?  It seems to me that the right wing of politic, has longer arms, than do the left side.  Especially when it comes to controversy.
Remember the Bill Maher incident, and dismissal?



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