I Love You, Man (as a Friend) - NYT Article on gay/straight male friendships

[Clyde-B]

Are you talking about a verbal denial?? If so that's simply masking an emotion that they are consciously aware of.

I couldn't disagree more with your assessment of Ennis. I believe that he was very aware of his feelings for Jack. Heath's performance of the role clearly communicated that love onscreen throughout the movie. The tragedy of it is that Ennis' fear of being murdered was a stronger emotion. Fear guided his behavior rather than love. 

Freud spent a lifetime uncovering denied emotions that operated unconsciously whether people liked it or not.  You can deny their existence if you like, but I think most people in the psychological professions would not.

[milomorris]

Freud spent a lifetime uncovering denied emotions that operated unconsciously whether people liked it or not.  You can deny their existence if you like, but I think most people in the psychological professions would not.

I'm well aware of Freud and denied emotions. I just think that sometimes we jump to conclusions about whether a person is really in denial, or just not letting us in. There is indeed a difference.

If a guy is in a board meeting, and someone pisses him off, he will likely remain relaxed and continue behaving as he had earlier in the meeting. Meanwhile, inside he is seething. This is an example of a man who is perfectly in touch with his feelings, but due to time, place, and present company, chooses not to express himself. That is not denial.

True denial is when the man tells himself that he's not really angry. Maybe he tells himself that he's overreacting. Maybe he tells himself that he's just tired. Or hungry. Or hung over. 

[Clyde-B]

I'm well aware of Freud and denied emotions. I just think that sometimes we jump to conclusions about whether a person is really in denial, or just not letting us in. There is indeed a difference.

If a guy is in a board meeting, and someone pisses him off, he will likely remain relaxed and continue behaving as he had earlier in the meeting. Meanwhile, inside he is seething. This is an example of a man who is perfectly in touch with his feelings, but due to time, place, and present company, chooses not to express himself. That is not denial.

True denial is when the man tells himself that he's not really angry. Maybe he tells himself that he's overreacting. Maybe he tells himself that he's just tired. Or hungry. Or hung over. 

The two points I was trying to make were that many men often don't share their emotions because they have been taught not to.

And that some men go so far as to deny emotions they don't feel comfortable with.

I think you're right, Clyde.  Of course not all men are cut from the same cloth, and there are plenty of very emotionally healthy men out there.  But some of them do more than simply guard their emotions.  They swallow them. 

Ennis is a good example.  He wore his mask for so long, he could no longer recognize himself. 
 

I agree, Gary.  It felt to me as if the point to Jack's dying in the story was so that Ennis would be forced to face how he felt.

[milomorris]

The two points I was trying to make were that many men often don't share their emotions because they have been taught not to.

I still don't see a problem with this. What difference does it make if regulating emotional expression is taught?? The truth is that it is an evolutionarily relevant skill. When a lion is terrorizing your village, you have to be able to feel your fear, but express aggression when you finally get to kill it. It doesn't matter that you were taught to do that by your tribal elders et al.--either you can do it or you can't. 

[Monika]

I still don't see a problem with this. What difference does it make if regulating emotional expression is taught?? The truth is that it is an evolutionarily relevant skill. When a lion is terrorizing your village, you have to be able to feel your fear, but express aggression when you finally get to kill it. It doesn't matter that you were taught to do that by your tribal elders et al.--either you can do it or you can't. 

the point is that if it´s something that can be taught, but isn´t...well than that can be changed. A pretty big difference, after all.

[milomorris]

the point is that if it´s something that can be taught, but isn´t...well than that can be changed. A pretty big difference, after all.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

[milomorris]

but if you're guarding your emotions in the way you'd guard Fort Knox, then maybe you need to loosen up a bit. 

I think we can all agree on that one. There certainly are men out there who over-do all of this. But I think that there just as many, if not more, men who are simply being misunderstood by people because those people have a difficult time reading the guy.

For the women who are disappointed in the openness of the men in their lives, I would ask them what kind of men are they attracted to.  And I would ask them would a man be safe opening up to them.     

A question that I think is more to the point of the thread is what kinds of men make good friends: be they hetero or homo?? What kinds of qualities do guys who do bond across the sexual orientation gap have?? What makes a homosexual man a good friend to a heterosexual guy?? Ask that same question in reverse.

IMO, this conversation is getting bogged down with this debate about what men feel, and how they express those feelings. As far as I'm concerned, by & large, we men already have that figured out.