TOTW 05/09: Things that made you go "hunh?"

[Jeff Wrangler]

I would have put in some scenes at least showing physical affection    in the second half of the film. When I first saw it, I remember thinking 'what are they still keeping this a secret for?'

Tell you what, thinking about this, this morning. It might not even have taken much, or much time. Remember the scene (just after Jack's "blue parka" confrontation with Lureen), where we see Jack dumping corn on the cob in a pot over the fire, and Ennis shows up, and Jack gets a big smile on his face? Well, what if we'd had a shot, just after that, of the two of them giving each other a great big ol' hug? It wouldn't even have had to be anything explicitly sexual or even "romantic," just a little bit of something to show us how much they enjoyed just being together.

I'm just thinkin' out loud here. 

[Front-Ranger]

Tell you what, thinking about this, this morning. It might not even have taken much, or much time. Remember the scene (just after Jack's "blue parka" confrontation with Lureen), where we see Jack dumping corn on the cob in a pot over the fire, and Ennis shows up, and Jack gets a big smile on his face? Well, what if we'd had a shot, just after that, of the two of them giving each other a great big ol' hug? It wouldn't even have had to be anything explicitly sexual or even "romantic," just a little bit of something to show us how much they enjoyed just being together.

I'm just thinkin' out loud here. 

You're a real thinker there, Jeff. 

[mariez]

The SNIT was added to the story and it was very passionate and affectionate, love, not just physical attraction. And the thing that really drew me to the movie (and read the story in anticipation of the movie) was the trailer with the reunion scene and Ennis' longing looks just before the reunion scene. OMG, the passion that spoke from that to me made it clear that their connection was a very deep and special one. It gave me goosebumps and still does.

Oh, I loved the SNIT - and I'm glad it was added.  The funny thing is, though, that if I go strictly by the ss, I'm not sure it fits what AP describes - but I'm glad it was filmed just the way it was.  I do think that it was necessary (especially for viewers who hadn't read the ss) in order to get a better sense of their relationship and their feelings.  The reunion is my favorite part of the movie - brilliantly done in every way - the acting, the directing, etc. 

I guess I'm tallking more about the second half of the movie, after the reunion, as has been mentioned.  I think Jeff gave a great example.  Throughout all those many years there had to have been some really happy, joyful moments between them, and I don't think it would have detracted from the point Ang Lee was trying to make to include just one, and I'm sure he could've done it in a way that wasn't overly mushy or corny.

The next day I asked her what she thought of the movie and she said 'it was so-so'.  I nearly keeled over, couldn't believe what she said. That was the first time I realised this movie was not for everyone to get.

OMG, I know everyone has different tastes - but that I just do not understand at all!  It's so hard for me to believe someone could walk away from that movie and not feel that they had been through a life-changing experience!  Ah, well, I guess that's why places like this this were created! 

[Jeff Wrangler]

Oh, I loved the SNIT - and I'm glad it was added.  The funny thing is, though, that if I go strictly by the ss, I'm not sure it fits what AP describes. 

Tell you what, that's a very good point. On the other hand, my memory of the scene is that as they begin to make love, Ennis has his eyes closed, which always made me think of what Annie says in her description of Jack's memory of the dozy embrace--that the memory wasn't marred for Jack by the knowledge that at the time the dozy embrace happened, Ennis couldn't bring himself to face the fact that it was Jack--a man--that he was embracing.

It's very subtle--and maybe I'm even imagining it--but I've always associated Ennis having his eyes closed with his not willing to face up to his feelings.

But I certainly agree, we needed to see a tender love scene to illustrate that what they really felt was love.

[Jeff Wrangler]

You're a real thinker there, Jeff. 

  

[mariez]

Tell you what, that's a very good point. On the other hand, my memory of the scene is that as they begin to make love, Ennis has his eyes closed, which always made me think of what Annie says in her description of Jack's memory of the dozy embrace--that the memory wasn't marred for Jack by the knowledge that at the time the dozy embrace happened, Ennis couldn't bring himself to face the fact that it was Jack--a man--that he was embracing.

It's very subtle--and maybe I'm even imagining it--but I've always associated Ennis having his eyes closed with his not willing to face up to his feelings.

But I certainly agree, we needed to see a tender love scene to illustrate that what they really felt was love.

Excellent point about Ennis having his eyes closed, Jeff - if his eyes are closed than it's not really "face to face" and all the symbolism that entails.  I like how you connected that with how she describes the dozy embrace.  I was also thinking of her words:

"without saying anything about it both knew how it would go for the rest of the summer, sheep be damned.

As it did go. They never talked about the sex, let it happen, at first only in the tent at night, then in the full daylight with the hot sun striking down, and at evening in the fire glow, quick, rough, laughing and snorting, no lack of noises,..."

which kind of imply (to me at least) that there wasn't any hesitancy on either one of their parts after that first night.  But, as I said, I'm really glad they filmed the SNIT the way they did.  It not only fit into the movie beautifully, it fit better with the quieter, more contained Ennis that Heath created so brilliantly.

[LauraGigs]

Several posts that follow this one have been split off into their own topic: Love vs. Lust.

That is a pretty big subject and I think it warrants its own space.

Back to Things that made you go "hunh"!

[LauraGigs]

One thing that always struck me as odd was the amount of child support Ennis was ordered to pay.   

It was 1975.  I don't have a perfectly clear idea of how 1975 dollars compare with 2009 ones, but $125 a month for each child seems like an awful lot for that time and place.

[tampatalon]

One thing that always struck me as odd what the amount of child support Ennis was ordered to pay.   

It was 1975.  Being around Jenny's age, I don't have a clear picture of what 1975 dollars would pay for now, but $125 dollars a month for each child seems like an awful lot for that time and place.

I had an uncle that was a steelworker making about 25K that divorced in '74. His obligation
was $110.00 per child per month so $125.00 seems pretty steep to me for what Ennis prolly
made.

TampaTalon^">

[Fran]

I have a small "hunh":  I wonder why the screenwriters (or perhaps the director) felt it necessary to change Francine's name to Jennifer (Jenny).  I originally thought it was because "Francine" was too French-sounding or perhaps because it seemed "too modern" -- in which case it could have just been changed to "Frances" -- but, according to Wikipedia, Francine was a very popular name in the U.S. in the 1940s and 1950s: 

Francine is a female given name. The name is of French origin, derived from French name Francoise, itself the female version of Francois, the French form of Francis. The name Francine was most popular in France itself during the 1940s (Besnard & Desplanques 2003), and was well used in the United States during the 1940s and 1950s (Evans 2006). Short forms are Frannie, Frans and Fran.

It seems to me, based on the above, that Wyomingites Alma and Ennis could have very well chosen Francine as the name for their younger daughter without it raising any eyebrows. 

Does anyone care to speculate on why Francine might have been changed to Jennifer? 

For starters, maybe it's as simple as McMurtry, Ossana, or Ang Lee just don't like that name.