Author Topic: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions  (Read 10686 times)

Offline delalluvia

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Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« on: October 08, 2009, 03:54:20 pm »

 >:(

Invasion of privacy by the backdoor.

On Nov. 1, a law in Oklahoma will go into effect that will collect personal details about every single abortion performed in the state and post them on a public website. Implementing the measure will “cost $281,285 the first year and $256,285 each subsequent year.” Here are the first eight questions that women will have to reveal

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/10/08/oklahoma-abortion-online/

Offline Clyde-B

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2009, 05:00:40 pm »
How does this benefit the community?

Is having an abortion illegal?  Have these women committed a crime?  Do we need to protect our children from them?

What justification is the government using for making public confidential medical information about these women? 

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2009, 05:39:46 pm »
Unbelievable! Hopefully, the ACLU or some such will put a quick end to this.


Offline bailey1205

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2009, 08:27:35 pm »
>:(

Invasion of privacy by the backdoor.

On Nov. 1, a law in Oklahoma will go into effect that will collect personal details about every single abortion performed in the state and post them on a public website. Implementing the measure will “cost $281,285 the first year and $256,285 each subsequent year.” Here are the first eight questions that women will have to reveal

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/10/08/oklahoma-abortion-online/

OMG !!
What possible purpose does this serve?

I cannot believe this. 

Offline Monika

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2009, 09:36:35 am »
Is this 2009 or 1909?

Offline southendmd

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2009, 12:06:06 pm »
This sounds like an end-run around HIPPA meant to intimidate.

Offline mariez

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2009, 02:15:39 pm »
This sounds like an end-run around HIPPA meant to intimidate.

Exactly.  The proponents claim that because no names will be reported or posted that no one's right to privacy is being violated - but I agree that that defense is questionable because enough information could be ascertained from those first eight questions to identify a woman in a small community.  And those are precisely the women most likely to be intimidated. 

Unbelievable! Hopefully, the ACLU or some such will put a quick end to this.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/10/01/New_Abortion_Law_Challenged_in_Oklahoma.htm

New Abortion Law Challenged in Oklahoma
By ROBERT KAHN

     (CN) - Two Oklahoma women are challenging a new state law set to take effect next month that requires publication of an "Annual Abortion Report" and forces doctors to give details about their patients under threat of criminal sanctions and loss of their medical license, according to a suit in Oklahoma County Court.
     The Oklahoma law, H.B. 1595, also changed definitions of abortion terms, used terms already thrown out by a court and barred certain procedures for the first time, according to the filing.
     H.B. 1595 changed several statutory definitions, banned abortions sought "solely on account of the sex of the unborn child," imposed new reporting requirements on physicians who administer abortions or treat patients for complications of abortions, and created new, and expensive, responsibilities, including enforcement of state laws on abortions and gathering and reporting of statistics on abortions, state agencies and medical boards. The law will take effect Nov. 1.
     According to the complaint, the bill employs the undefined term "certified technician" by referring to a previous law, Senate Bill 1878, of the 2008 session, which was "invalidated by the District Court of Oklahoma County without ever going into effect."
     H.B. 1595 redefined the terms "unemancipated minor" and "attempt to perform an abortion," and applied them in the section that bans "sex-selective abortions," according to the complaint. It adds that the definitions of those terms in one section of the Act are different from the definitions applied to other sections of it.
     The bill requires the state Health Department to create and publish an "'Annual Abortion Report,' based on the extensive abortion-related data to be provided by physicians to the Health Department, and an 'Annual Judicial Bypass of Abortion Parental Consent Summary Report,'" among other things.
     The plaintiffs say the bill will require "an unlawful expenditure of public funds," to the tune of more than $250,000 a year. Defendants include Oklahoma Attorney General Drew Edmondson, Health Commissioner Terry Cline, and the directors of the State Board of Medical Licensure and Supervision and State Board of Osteopathic Examiners. Gov. Brad Henry signed the bill into law on May 21.
     A group called "Pro-Choice of Oklahoma" claims that the reporting requirements of HB 1595 are so extensive that the reports could reveal the names of physicians and patients who perform or receive abortions in small towns.
     The plaintiffs say the bill violates the state constitution. They want it enjoined. Their lead counsel is Anne Zachritz with Andrews Davis

~~~~~~~

Here's a link to H.B. 1595 in it's entirety:

http://www.sos.state.ok.us/documents/Legislation/52nd/2009/1R/HB/1595.pdf

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Offline Sason

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2009, 06:11:13 pm »
Is this 2009 or 1909?

sounds more like 1984.

Düva pööp is a förce of natüre

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2009, 06:27:04 pm »
sounds more like 1984.

 :laugh:  Good one, Sason!


Offline Monika

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2009, 06:28:03 pm »
sounds more like 1984.
spot on, Sonja

Offline Sason

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2009, 07:33:37 am »
Thanks guys.

Düva pööp is a förce of natüre

Offline mariez

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2009, 11:05:53 am »

http://www.womensenews.org/story/reproductive-health/091020/okla-abortion-publicity-law-blocked-court?page=0,0

Okla. Abortion Publicity Law Blocked by Court

By Susan Elan

WeNews correspondent

Wednesday, October 21, 2009

Enforcement of an Oklahoma law that will publicize an unprecedented amount of personal information about women who undergo abortions has been delayed by at least one month, to Dec. 4, as part of a legal challenge.

(WOMENSENEWS)--An Oklahoma law mandating that detailed information about patients who have abortions be published on a state Web site was blocked by legal action on Monday.

The law was scheduled to take effect Nov. 1.

To challenge the state constitutionality of the law, the New York-based Center for Reproductive Rights filed a lawsuit on behalf of two Oklahoma women.

The center's spokeswoman Dionne Scott said a temporary restraining order that stops enforcement was granted late Monday by Oklahoma County District Court Judge Twyla Mason Gray so that she could "look further into the case."

The law, House Bill 1595, requires physicians to ask patients, described as "mothers," up to 37 personal questions, including their age, marital status, race, years of education, number of prior pregnancies, reason for the abortion, method of abortion and payment and whether an ultrasound was performed.

Former state Rep. Wanda Jo Stapleton, an Oklahoma City Democrat who brought the lawsuit with Lora Joyce Davis, a resident of Shawnee, Okla., applauded the court granted reprieve.

"This is one of dozens of bills piled on year after year by the Oklahoma legislature to place obstacles in the path of women," Stapleton said on Tuesday. "The bill points a public finger at women and is intended to scare them to death."

Suspense about whether the law could take effect has been building since Oct. 13 when the state court, at the request of the attorney general, postponed an Oct. 30 hearing on the lawsuit in Oklahoma County District Court until Dec. 4, which would have allowed the law to take effect with the challenge pending.

"Very Unusual" Move

Jennifer Mondino, a Center for Reproductive Rights staff attorney, told Women's eNews that delaying the hearing date, which would have allowed the law to be in effect for more than a month, was "very unusual."

Last week, the Center for Reproductive Rights sent a brief to Oklahoma opposing postponement. The legal advocacy group also renewed its request for a temporary restraining order to prevent the law from going into effect.

Charlie Price, a spokesman for state Attorney General Drew Edmondson, said the attorney general's office, which defends challenges to state laws, had asked for more time to respond.

The New York-based Guttmacher Institute, which tracks abortion reporting requirements nationwide, lists 46 states that require hospitals, doctors and facilities that provide abortions to submit confidential reports to the state. But only 15 states require providers to give information about a woman's reason for seeking the procedure.

"The Oklahoma bill takes all of the intrusive information from very personal questions and puts it all in one place," said Elizabeth Nash, who specializes in state policy for the Guttmacher Institute. "It's the most egregious."

Stapleton, a state legislator from 1986 to 1996, charges that the measure violates patient privacy protection that is guaranteed under the federal Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act. She also says that it violates a woman's federally-protected right to choose without state interference during the first trimester of pregnancy.

"Women in small towns can be identified by nosey neighbors or, equally important, they can be misidentified when the guessing games start," Stapleton said.

The Center for Reproductive Rights isn't fighting the legislation on the issues that trouble Stapleton, however.

Its lawsuit says House Bill 1595 violates the Oklahoma Constitution by covering more than one subject.

The bill also bans abortion based on gender, redefines some abortion-related terms and creates new duties for the state Department of Health.

Successful Precedent

By focusing on Oklahoma's one-subject constitutional restriction, the Center for Reproductive Rights successfully challenged a 2008 law in Oklahoma that would have required women to submit to an ultrasound and description by their doctor of the fetus prior to an abortion. The state said it will appeal that ruling.

The measures are just the latest round in an "avalanche of anti-choice bills" proposed in Oklahoma since 2005 when "extremist Republicans" took control of the state House, Stapleton said.

Oklahoma state Rep. Dan Sullivan, a Tulsa Republican and co-author of House Bill 1595, told Women's eNews that the law is intended "to find out why people are seeking abortions and see if there is something we can do as a state to have a positive impact." He said there is no way to understand the demand for the procedures without good data.

Dr. Dana Stone, who specializes in obstetrics and gynecology in Oklahoma City, doesn't understand why the state needs to spend money on data collection and posting when the federally-funded Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, or the CDC, in Atlanta already does that.

The CDC has collected state-by-state abortion data, which is available online, since 1969.

The cost of the new abortion reporting program for Oklahoma taxpayers is estimated at $281,285 in the first year and $256,285 each year thereafter.

Doctors who perform abortions or treat patients with an illness or injury that may have resulted from an abortion face heavy fines if they fail to report to the state.

"Is this really intended to help women and their health or to make it more difficult to take care of these women?" Stone said.

The bill's Senate co-author Todd Lamb, a Republican who is running for lieutenant governor, couldn't be reached to answer that question. But press releases he issued after approval of the legislation last spring make his priorities clear.

"This legislation is essential in protecting the sanctity of life," Lamb said. "Too often the life of the unborn is taken for granted and I applaud my colleagues for their bipartisan support of a pro-life measure, despite attempts on the floor to sabotage this issue important to families across our state."

Susan Elan covered politics at daily newspapers in the New York metropolitan area for more than a decade. She has also worked as a reporter for an English-language radio station in Paris, France.
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2009, 12:38:06 pm »
Thanks for posting marie.

This

Oklahoma state Rep. Dan Sullivan, a Tulsa Republican and co-author of House Bill 1595, told Women's eNews that the law is intended "to find out why people (people?  Only women seek abortions) are seeking abortions and see if there is something we can do as a state to have a positive impact." He said there is no way to understand the demand for the procedures without good data.

sounds like the same paternalistic BS you hear from certain fundamentalist religions about why women should be controlled.  "It's for their own good.  We're really trying to help them."

>:( ::)

Offline Clyde-B

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2009, 12:53:45 pm »
Thanks for posting marie.

This

Oklahoma state Rep. Dan Sullivan, a Tulsa Republican and co-author of House Bill 1595, told Women's eNews that the law is intended "to find out why people (people?  Only women seek abortions) are seeking abortions and see if there is something we can do as a state to have a positive impact." He said there is no way to understand the demand for the procedures without good data.

sounds like the same paternalistic BS you hear from certain fundamentalist religions about why women should be controlled.  "It's for their own good.  We're really trying to help them."

>:( ::)

How does he define a positive impact?

What's the need for a positive impact?

What's the negative that he is opposing?

How does it warrant this expenditure?

If the pro-life proponents want to gather data, let them spend their own money for it, not the state's.


Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2009, 01:41:13 pm »
How does he define a positive impact?

Surely that means eliminating abortion altogether?  ::)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2009, 01:43:25 pm »
sounds like the same paternalistic BS you hear from certain fundamentalist religions about why women should be controlled.  "It's for their own good.  We're really trying to help them."


I hear that regularly, sometimes from people whom you'd think would know better -- that in addition to forcing women to go through with unplanned pregnancies, they should be treated with "compassion."  Never mind that the only reaction some women getting abortions want from these folks is to butt out.

But of course, people fall for it.

Marge_Innavera

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2009, 01:45:10 pm »
How does he define a positive impact?

Producing more unwanted and/or abused children.

Of course, that same official is likely to scream like a stuck pig over any public assistance.

Offline Mikaela

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2009, 02:41:35 pm »
Oklahoma state Rep. Dan Sullivan, a Tulsa Republican and co-author of House Bill 1595, told Women's eNews that the law is intended "to find out why people are seeking abortions and see if there is something we can do as a state to have a positive impact." He said there is no way to understand the demand for the procedures without good data.

I see Del has already commented on this, but I can't stop myself from doing so too.

The dishonesty of the above bolded sentence says it all. This guy's out to subjugate women and steal  away their control of their own bodies, but doesn't have the balls to admit it.

Offline Clyde-B

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2009, 02:42:10 pm »
Producing more unwanted and/or abused children.

Of course, that same official is likely to scream like a stuck pig over any public assistance.


I think the correct term is pro-birth not pro-life, because many have made it quite clear that once the child is born, they want nothing to do with it if it involves money out of their own pocketbook..

Offline mariez

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2009, 02:43:41 pm »
Of course, that same official is likely to scream like a stuck pig over any public assistance.

And be in favor of abstinence-only education.
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2009, 03:34:23 pm »
Oklahoma state Rep. Dan Sullivan, a Tulsa Republican and co-author of House Bill 1595, told Women's eNews that the law is intended "to find out why people are seeking abortions and see if there is something we can do as a state to have a positive impact." He said there is no way to understand the demand for the procedures without good data.

Ya think, maybe, being pregnant has something to do with it?

 ::)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline bailey1205

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2009, 04:10:35 pm »
And be in favor of abstinence-only education.

Oh yeah.....  teaching abstinence only really works !

 ::)


Offline Mikaela

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2009, 04:15:22 pm »
Ya think, maybe, being pregnant has something to do with it?

 ::)

Maybe they really want to find out the percentage of abortion-seekers who are actually men - men gone mad from having obsessed too long and franticlly about how to deny women abortions.

Offline mariez

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Re: Oklahoma seeks to 'out' women who have abortions
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2009, 09:01:33 am »

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/commonground/2009/10/21/an-inconsistent-truth

Pro-life Pretense
By Cristina Page
Created Oct 21 2009 - 8:00am

President Obama's still-to-be released common ground agenda in the abortion conflict is already having a profound and largely overlooked effect: it has exposed deep fault lines in the pro-life movement. Obama's focus on reducing the need for abortion has been embraced by some practical-minded pro-lifers who are tired of decades of intransigence, and who also appear jaded by the counterproductive "culture of life" sloganeering of President Bush. Pro-choice Bill Clinton presided over the most dramatic decline in abortion rates in the history of our country after all. Pro-lifers Reagan, Bush I and Bush II did not. For an emerging movement of reasoned, results-oriented, non-ideological pro-lifers results count. If a pro-choice president produces pro-life outcomes, they ask, are they any less worthy?

For the traditional pro-life establishment, however, they are. In fact, to them, Obama's common ground call is perceived as a threat. Since Obama takes them, their beliefs and their proposals seriously they have been forced to justify some fundamental hypocrisies, the kind that have in the past led to rhetorical victories and little progress (unless you count fundraising). Consider, for example, the clash between pro-life rhetoric and reality when it comes to crisis pregnancy centers, a much-cherished initiative of the old guard pro-lifer. A recent report, "A Passion to Serve, a Vision for Life," released by the Family Research Council is a valentine to the nation's 3,000 crisis pregnancy centers (CPCs). It commends them for communicating "to women and their families that their lives are valuable and that their needs - emotional, psychological, medical, spiritual and practical - can and will be met ."

The report details the intense efforts CPCs undertake to persuade women to not choose abortion. The main message broadcast to those coming to a center is: "support is available, you do not need to discontinue this pregnancy for financial reasons." But beside the ultrasound image women are provided and medically inaccurate pitch against abortion, the most persuasive arguments available to CPCs, as any staff or volunteer will readily admit, is that women facing crisis pregnancies can make it work by depending on a network of publicly-funded social services. For the vast majority of women convinced to become mothers, CPCs are a gateway to the welfare system.

Theoretically, a pro-life, common ground approach then would be to take seriously the benefits of CPCs as, essentially, referral agencies to services which can support women who really do want to keep a pregnancy. And also to say, "Let's make sure the right social services are in place - those that women really need - and that they are well-funded."

And here's where that old-guard rhetoric runs into the brick wall of common ground (and fact-based) reality. The Family Research Council valentine to crisis pregnancy centers may sound pretty, and even compelling, but on closer examination is it sincere? In effect, groups like the Family Research Council as well as most pro-life politicians have been two-timing their devoted crisis pregnancy center partners. While professing their love for their work, they batter the social programs on which the crisis pregnancy center movement places its trust.

The Family Research Council carefully details in its report the many federal and state-sponsored programs to which CPCs direct women including: Head Start, Medicaid, Local Health Departments, Legal Aid, State Children's Health Insurance Program (S-Chip), State Health Departments, Women Infants & Children (WIC), and the Department of Job and Family Services.

Yet when it's suggested that support for these very agencies should merit pro-life support, the Family Research Council lines up in opposition. Michael New, a senior fellow at the Family Research Council, recently launched an attack on the progressive, pro-common ground, pro-life group, Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good (CACG) for suggesting just that. CACG conducted a study linking states that provide more generous services to the poor with lower abortion rates. CACG suggested that to reduce abortion rates pro-lifers should consider the policies traditionally championed by Democrats--extending publicly-funded social services to poor pregnant women--rather than exclusively focus on restricting abortion. But suddenly, the programs that are so effective when used as resources by crisis pregnancy centers, are suspect. New writes,

"[The study's] questionable methodology and inconsistent results should give pro-lifers serious pause before they enthusiastically embrace higher welfare benefits as a strategy to reduce abortion. Furthermore, there is little peer-reviewed research which indicates that more generous welfare benefits have a significant impact. [Other studies] find that welfare benefits only have a marginal impact on abortion rates. However, as I will discuss later in the response, there exists plenty of evidence from studies in reputable peer reviewed journals that various types of pro-life laws reduce abortion rates."

New himself didn't miss the chance to praise the work of crisis pregnancy centers; he weighed in when the Family Research Council report came out, writing, "PRCs have offered real alternatives to literally millions of women facing crisis pregnancies. Countless women regret their abortions. However, the testimonials in FRC's latest report are evidence of the positive impact of the life-affirming options offered by many pregnancy-resource centers." Of course, the "life-affirming" options are now no more than a euphemism for the "welfare" which, according to New, has a "marginal impact on abortion rates.

New's attack on the Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good's policy proposal is a reflection of an all-consuming hypocrisy plaguing an ideologically entrenched pro-life establishment. Crisis Pregnancy Centers rely on a welfare system to support the women they persuade to become mothers while pro-life groups and politicians actively undermine the very programs and agencies that are the only resources available to support many women who want to have a child, as CPCs know.

In 2007, The Children's Defense Fund published its Congressional Scorecard on the best and worst legislators for children. The organization scored congressmembers votes on many of the policies that help pregnant women decide whether to parent or abort. The votes were on Head Start, increasing the minimum wage, reauthorizing and increasing funding for S-CHIP, increasing funding for children with disabilities, job training, Medicaid funding, helping youth pay for college, and tax-relief for low-income families with children. Based on their votes on these issues, the Children's Defense Fund ranked 143 congressmembers as 'the worst" for children. Of the 143 worst legislators, 100% are pro-life.

The long-established, and long-dominant pro-life complex speaks out of both sides of its mouth, praising crisis pregnancy centers and yet disparaging the social services upon which they rely. In the upcoming months, the Obama administration will be revealing its common ground agenda and one part of it promises to be supports for pregnant women. It is just the sort of agenda designed to appeal to a nascent pragmatic and moderate pro-life movement. Let's hope this rising voice of reason can lead the crisis pregnancy center movement to support an administration plan to help struggling families and indigent pregnant women. Praise for CPCs can't come packaged with attacks on the very supports they rely upon. It not only defeats common ground; it defeats reason.

Joseph Schiedler, president of the Pro-life Action League, wrote an op-ed in USA Today claiming pro-lifers who embark on the search for common ground betray the pro-life cause and, in making his case, reveals the classic characteristics of pro-life schizophrenia. He writes,

"There is no evidence that increasing social programs -- such as low-cost health care and day care, college grants and maternity homes -- will impact a woman's abortion decision. It is rare in our experience to find a woman who says the reason she is choosing abortion is that she doesn't have day care, or that she'd rather go to college...More than 3,000 pregnancy centers in the U.S. are ready to help a woman with material needs, emotional support, counseling and medical care. Anyone who wants to stop abortion should promote these centers."

Once we begin to till the soil of common ground, these contradictions and inconsistencies will become clearer. It is then that pragmatic pro-lifers may realize there will be unlikely partners along the path to genuine pro-life victories.



The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain