P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17

[Penthesilea]

Of course we see Marion crouch down in the shower. With her back to the wall/bath tub, her hand streched out in defense. Right? Is she crouched down then?
It's really loooong ago I saw it 

[TOoP/Bruce]

Of course we see Marion crouch down in the shower. With her back to the wall/bath tub, her hand streched out in defense. Right? Is she crouched down then?
It's really loooong ago I saw it 

Since the stories are different it can be confusing to focus on how they are different.  Here is what is similar about them.

In Psycho, Marion metaphorically tries to fix what she has done by working out the figures of what she has spent. She then crosses in in front of a mirror where she is partially reflected.  She flushes the ripped up figures down the drain, steps into a cubicle, and is joined by another figure.  She screams.  After she falls dead, the camera closes in on her eye and lap/dissolves to the drain.  The story of Marion Crane is not what Psycho will be about.  Marion Crane is finished. 

Compare this to Brokeback.  Ennis metaphorically tries to fix what is happening between himself and Jack by fixing Jack's truck.  As Jack leaves, we see Ennis in Jack's rear view mirror -- the equivalent of being reflected and going down the drain at the same time.  Ennis steps into an alley and doubled over with cramps, and is also joined by another figure.  He screams.  As he doubles over, we hear "forgive us our trespasses" -- the audio equivalent of a lap dissolve as the story shifts to Ennis's wedding.  Any promise of a future between Jack and Ennis, effectively goes down the drain here as we.  The romance of Brokeback mountain is not what Brokeback will be about.  The romantic promise of Brokeback is also finished.

Very different stories, but similarities can be found.

....

In Psycho, the "Adam's apple" shot is very pronounced as the camera goes below eye level and looks up at Norman's throat as the detective Arbogast questions him. 

In Brokeback, the camera stays put, but Heath's head is cocked back at an awkward angle to expose his throat as he sits on the bed.  Alma is working her "charms" with "no more loney places".  The interesting feature of this awkward head tilt seems to be his exposed throat (the frontal lump on a man's throat is commonly referred to as the "Adam's apple").

[TOoP/Bruce]

Since the stories are very different it can be confusing to focus on the differences.  Here is what is similar about them.

In Psycho, Marion metaphorically tries to fix what she has done by working out the figures of what she has spent. She then crosses in in front of a mirror where she is partially reflected.  She flushes the ripped up figures down the drain, steps into a cubicle, and is joined by another figure.  She screams.  After she falls dead, the camera closes in on her eye and lap/dissolves to the drain.  The story of Marion Crane is not what Psycho will be about.  Marion Crane is finished. 

Compare this to Brokeback.  Ennis metaphorically tries to fix what is happening between himself and Jack by fixing Jack's truck.  As Jack leaves, we see Ennis in Jack's rear view mirror -- the equivalent of being reflected and going down the drain at the same time.  Ennis steps into an alley and doubled over with cramps, and is also joined by another figure.  He screams.  As he doubles over, we hear "forgive us our trespasses" -- the audio equivalent of a lap dissolve as the story shifts to Ennis's wedding.  Any promise of a future between Jack and Ennis, effectively goes down the drain here as we.  The romance of Brokeback mountain is not what Brokeback will be about.  The romantic promise of Brokeback is also finished.

Very different stories, but similarities can be found.

....

In Psycho, the "Adam's apple" shot is very pronounced as the camera goes below eye level and looks up at Norman's throat as the detective Arbogast questions him. 

In Brokeback, the camera stays put, but Heath's head is cocked back at an awkward angle to expose his throat as he sits on the bed.  Alma is working her "charms" with "no more loney places".  The interesting feature of this awkward head tilt seems to be his exposed throat (the frontal lump on a man's throat is commonly referred to as the "Adam's apple").

....

I don't know if Annie Proulx had any Hitchcock elements in mind when she wrote the short story, but many curious coincidences keep popping up:

One of the scenes that was cut from Brokeback was pulling a VW microbus out of a lake.  This would also parallel a remarkably similar scene in Psycho - Marion's car being dredged from the swamp.  Presumably, James Schamus wrote this scene and it was cut because it didn't work.  Strange that it would also find a parallel a scene in Psycho.

[Penthesilea]

Since the stories are very different it can be confusing to focus on the differences.  Here is what is similar about them.

In Psycho, Marion metaphorically tries to fix what she has done by working out the figures of what she has spent. She then crosses in in front of a mirror where she is partially reflected.  She flushes the ripped up figures down the drain, steps into a cubicle, and is joined by another figure.  She screams.  After she falls dead, the camera closes in on her eye and lap/dissolves to the drain.  The story of Marion Crane is not what Psycho will be about.  Marion Crane is finished. 

Compare this to Brokeback.  Ennis metaphorically tries to fix what is happening between himself and Jack by fixing Jack's truck.  As Jack leaves, we see Ennis in Jack's rear view mirror -- the equivalent of being reflected and going down the drain at the same time.  Ennis steps into an alley and doubled over with cramps, and is also joined by another figure.  He screams.  As he doubles over, we hear "forgive us our trespasses" -- the audio equivalent of a lap dissolve as the story shifts to Ennis's wedding.  Any promise of a future between Jack and Ennis, effectively goes down the drain here as we.  The romance of Brokeback mountain is not what Brokeback will be about.  The romantic promise of Brokeback is also finished.

Very different stories, but similarities can be found.

Hm. Not sure how to answer with without sounding negatory to the whole point. Yes, if you dig long enough and deep enough, you can find similarities. But you could find similarities between BBM and other classics as well. That's why they are classics: they are pathbreaking on some level(s) and therefore have other artists (directors, actors, writers, etc.) follow their route, hopefully not only imitating, but taking one of those groundbreaking ideas and let their own creativity run wild with it.

I don't want to dismiss your idea as a whole, but my strongest demur is the fact that some of your examples come from Ang Lee and some are from Annie Proulx. It simply can't be a homage from Ang Lee towards Hitchcock that Alma is named just that, because it was Annie who named Ennis's wife.

In Psycho, the "Adam's apple" shot is very pronounced as the camera goes below eye level and looks up at Norman's throat as the detective Arbogast questions him. 

In Brokeback, the camera stays put, but Heath's head is cocked back at an awkward angle to expose his throat as he sits on the bed.  Alma is working her "charms" with "no more loney places".  The interesting feature of this awkward head tilt seems to be his exposed throat (the frontal lump on a man's throat is commonly referred to as the "Adam's apple").

It never struck me as awkward. I think it's natural, he's tired and exhausted (look at his posture and facial expression before Alma approaches him), his muscles ache, especially his neck, so he stretches and rolls it. So the head tilt doesn't seem awkward at all to me. But you are right with the exposure of his throat. It's noticeable. And I think Ang Lee did nothing in this movie without a reason.
Now if I only had the respective scene from Psycho fresh in my memory 

I don't know if Annie Proulx had any Hitchcock elements in mind when she wrote the short story, but many curious coincidences keep popping up:

One of the scenes that was cut from Brokeback was pulling a VW microbus out of a lake.  This would also parallel a remarkably similar scene in Psycho - Marion's car being dredged from the swamp.  Presumably, James Schamus wrote this scene and it was cut because it didn't work.  Strange that it would also find a parallel a scene in Psycho.

James Schamus is a third source of parallels between Psycho and BBM. Proulx, Lee and Schamus? To be honest, this sounds unlikely to me.


I think I have to watch Psycho again as soon as I get the opportunity. Some of your examples are truly intriguing (like I already said). I don't want to oppose your theory as a whole, but I can't buy it completely either.

[TOoP/Bruce]

"Lust, Caution" is now out, and several critics are now remarking on its Hitchcock influences and themes, comparing it to Notorious, Suspicion, and a particular death scene from Torn Curtain.

It would be more surprising to me to find that "Number 17" was anything but a Hitchcock reference.

[Brown Eyes]

Random revelation from the Castro showing:

When we see Ennis applying the numbers to the mailbox, there is a glimpse of a pickup truck in the background. It looks like Jack's old red truck, a '66 Ford, but there's a difference. Instead of being red and white, it is solid red!! What does this mean??

This is a very excellent revelation Sister-Mod!  I've never noticed that detail before.  I think the trucks in the background function much like the black and white hats in the backgrounds of certain scenes.



OK... so I have a mail related question.  Forgive me if we've covered this before.

In Jack's first postcard he writes, "Heard you was in Riverton."  How would he have heard this?

[TOoP/Bruce]

Regarding my previous Hitchcock reference, in "Psycho", the number 17 can be seen on the wall in the police station when the psychiatrist explains about Norman's past...

Coincidence?

[Shakesthecoffecan]

The Number 17 having been discussed beyond my ability to take it all in, I would like to add that I think that Ennis having a mailbox is meaningful in that:

1. He has given up the P.O. Box necessitated by frequest moves, it was a place where Jack could reach him.

2. The P.O. Box was also a place where a postcard could remain safe from many eyes before he saw it. In a mailbox it could get stolen by neighbors.

3. It was symbolic in that he was acknowledging that he was going to be right there, was not going anywhere else, and that the only opportunity he may ever have to live elsewhere was gone.

Now I never understood why he was in Higgins Gift Shop. He never struck me as the kind of person who would go into a gift shop. 

[serious crayons]

I'd like to analyze the Higgins gift shop scene, because I've never fully understood it. The one thing that stands out for me is when Linda Higgins offers to get him a hunderd (why on earth would he want a hunderd??) and he says,

"One's enough."

One -- as in one lifetime love -- is, indeed, enough for Ennis.

But what else? But what about the part where he washes the horse blankets? And what about when she throws a sopping brown coffee filter into the garbage can? Is it significant that Linda wonders if the Brokeback Mountain he's talking about is in Fremont -- that is, free mountain -- County?

[Shakesthecoffecan]

It could be that she is concerned with inventory, knows that 100 is the minimum order and how long it will take to get rid of the other 99.

The sopping wet coffee filter, hum, I'll have to study on that one. Okay the coffee pot- they always have a coffe pot and Ennis is always looking for the handle. Here is an example of how he is further marginalized, out of his element ina gift shop where they use a machine to make coffee. In the begining of the story he is reheating coffee in an enamel pot. Stale coffee he has saved and Linda, who is not used to privation, casually tosses away the sacred grounds. 

The inside of Annie Proulx's mind must be an incredible place.