P.O. Boxes, Mailboxes and the No. 17

[Marge_Innavera]

I'm glad this thread has re-appeared -- last time I watched BBM (about 10 days ago) I'd started wondering about that number 17; always found that one puzzling.  I love math, though never studied it beyond high school, and for some reason have always found 17 rather irritating.   

"17" didn't seem to be a number with much symbolism attached to it, but I Googled and looked at a site about Number 17 and its significance.

Most of the stuff was pretty far-fetched but here's two things that caught my eye:

The Prime number 17 was called by the Pythagoreans - opposition, obstruction, and evil, and the day the Devil triumphed over God.

Number 17 - The Star of the Magi - This is a highly spiritual number, and was expressed in symbolism by the ancient Chaldeans as the 8-pointed Star of Venus. The Star of the Magi is the image of Love and Peace, and promises that the person or entity it represents will rise superior in spirit to the trials and difficulties of earlier life, with the ability to conquer former failure in personal relationships and the career. 17 is "the number of Immortality," and indicates that the person's name will live after him.

Guess Ennis' name lives after him; but somehow, the early post about it being 17 years from 1967 to 1984 makes more sense.   

[loneleeb3]

I'm glad this thread has re-appeared -- last time I watched BBM (about 10 days ago) I'd started wondering about that number 17; always found that one puzzling.  I love math, though never studied it beyond high school, and for some reason have always found 17 rather irritating.   

"17" didn't seem to be a number with much symbolism attached to it, but I Googled and looked at a site about Number 17 and its significance.

Most of the stuff was pretty far-fetched but here's two things that caught my eye:

The Prime number 17 was called by the Pythagoreans - opposition, obstruction, and evil, and the day the Devil triumphed over God.

Number 17 - The Star of the Magi - This is a highly spiritual number, and was expressed in symbolism by the ancient Chaldeans as the 8-pointed Star of Venus. The Star of the Magi is the image of Love and Peace, and promises that the person or entity it represents will rise superior in spirit to the trials and difficulties of earlier life, with the ability to conquer former failure in personal relationships and the career. 17 is "the number of Immortality," and indicates that the person's name will live after him.

Guess Ennis' name lives after him; but somehow, the early post about it being 17 years from 1967 to 1984 makes more sense.   

Wow Marge!
Thanks for posting that! I love the meanings given!

This is my favorite. It gives me hope!

The Star of the Magi is the image of Love and Peace, and promises that the person or entity it represents will rise superior in spirit to the trials and difficulties of earlier life, with the ability to conquer former failure in personal relationships and the career.

[brokeplex]

Good point Bud.  Now, following my BBM experience, I've become a big bull riding fan and watch it all the time.  And, I've always been curious about the origins of the 8 second rule.  I mean... why not an even 10 seconds or a "lucky" 7 seconds?   8 just seems so random somehow.  Do you happen to know more about what the number 8 means in this regard?

THE NUMBER 17 = 1 + 7 = 8  or Eight Seconds

Not sure about the actual origins of the 8 second rule in rodeoing, I do know that my own "Mr Showoff", DL, who has tried Bronc riding, has never held on over for over 7 seconds. And he is foolishly determined to go over that line.

The 8 seconds as the reference to Ennis's mail box number does seem to me to be the simplest and most logical reason for the numbers 1 and 7 to appear on the mail box. I do think that it wasn't put there randomly, and that it must have significance to Ennis, especially given that Ennis backs up and gives the number an appraisal.

The mythology of "8 seconds" runs throughout C&W music, pick an artist and you will find a song that references the 8 second rule. I think to Jack Twist, 8 Seconds meant success in life, achievement in something that he could be proud of, and certainly Ennis knew this. In fact Ennis and Jack discussed the 8 second rule in one of their camp fire suppers while on the mountain. So when Ennis saw the numbers 1 and 7 on his mail box, this would bring back bittersweet memories of Jack.

 

[Brown Eyes]

THE NUMBER 17 = 1 + 7 = 8  or Eight Seconds

Not sure about the actual origins of the 8 second rule in rodeoing, I do know that my own "Mr Showoff", DL, who has tried Bronc riding, has never held on over for over 7 seconds. And he is foolishly determined to go over that line.

The 8 seconds as the reference to Ennis's mail box number does seem to me to be the simplest and most logical reason for the numbers 1 and 7 to appear on the mail box. I do think that it wasn't put there randomly, and that it must have significance to Ennis, especially given that Ennis backs up and gives the number an appraisal.

The mythology of "8 seconds" runs throughout C&W music, pick an artist and you will find a song that references the 8 second rule. I think to Jack Twist, 8 Seconds meant success in life, achievement in something that he could be proud of, and certainly Ennis knew this. In fact Ennis and Jack discussed the 8 second rule in one of their camp fire suppers while on the mountain. So when Ennis saw the numbers 1 and 7 on his mail box, this would bring back bittersweet memories of Jack.

 

Heya,

I think it's an interesting hypothesis to suggest that the 1+7 is meant to suggest the 8 second rule (implying success... although I don't know what the success is for Ennis here... what success is Ennis anticipating at this point.  It may be a bittersweet memory of Jack, but it's hard to imagine how this concept applies to Ennis himself at this stage in the story if at all).

While I don't know the origins of the 8 second rule... what I do know about the 7th second comes from having watched tons of PBR events at this point and having listened to lots of post-ride interviews that happen at those events.  What a lot of the riders and commentators say is ... in the super-frustrating event of being bucked off at 7+ seconds (or just under 8 seconds) this often happens because sometimes after about 6-ish seconds when a rider has a feeling that the ride is going well... there's an almost instinctual habit that kicks in for some guys to relax a bit and sort of lose their form/concentration or to stop working on counter moves.  Sometimes around 7 seconds a rider will shift to a "clamp down" mentality or to a "just hold-on" mentality since it seems like such a short time to have to endure to complete the ride.  But, this is often a fatal flaw since within 1 second so much can go wrong in a bull ride.  And, clamping down and "out muscling" a bull is always a futile strategy no matter how strong the rider.  So, maybe this 1+7 is a reference to this particularly difficult last second... the second that counts for success and is seemingly quite hard to achieve in terms of concentration and form in the sport.

I'm still not quite sure how this concept of success applies to Ennis at this sad point in the story though.

[injest]

I have never considered this to be all THAT sad a time in Ennis's life...

what is sadder about it than any other time? He had come to terms with himself, he had the memory of a great  and true love to fall back on...I know of a lot of people living in fancy surroundings that would give a lot to have that.

[Mandy21]

Amanda, great post from last night.  I think the only bull riding I've ever watched is the movie "8 Seconds", and that's only because I was ga-ga for Luke Perry (and still am, matter of fact).  Anyway, I never knew all that stuff about the bull rider relaxing, and how apparently long that last 1 second between 7 and 8 can drag on when you're on top of a wild beast.  Never occurred to me.  Hey, I learned something new today.  Guess I can go back to bed:)  Thanks.

[serious crayons]

While I don't know the origins of the 8 second rule... what I do know about the 7th second comes from having watched tons of PBR events at this point and having listened to lots of post-ride interviews that happen at those events.  What a lot of the riders and commentators say is ... in the super-frustrating event of being bucked off at 7+ seconds (or just under 8 seconds) this often happens because sometimes after about 6-ish seconds when a rider has a feeling that the ride is going well... there's an almost instinctual habit that kicks in for some guys to relax a bit and sort of lose their form/concentration or to stop working on counter moves.  Sometimes around 7 seconds a rider will shift to a "clamp down" mentality or to a "just hold-on" mentality since it seems like such a short time to have to endure to complete the ride.  But, this is often a fatal flaw since within 1 second so much can go wrong in a bull ride.  And, clamping down and "out muscling" a bull is always a futile strategy no matter how strong the rider.  So, maybe this 1+7 is a reference to this particularly difficult last second... the second that counts for success and is seemingly quite hard to achieve in terms of concentration and form in the sport.

Wow, you really DO know your bull-ridin. You could have a second career as a rodeo announcer! Or a rider! 

[Brown Eyes]

Amanda, great post from last night.  I think the only bull riding I've ever watched is the movie "8 Seconds", and that's only because I was ga-ga for Luke Perry (and still am, matter of fact).  Anyway, I never knew all that stuff about the bull rider relaxing, and how apparently long that last 1 second between 7 and 8 can drag on when you're on top of a wild beast.  Never occurred to me.  Hey, I learned something new today.  Guess I can go back to bed:)  Thanks.

Wow, you really DO know your bull-ridin. You could have a second career as a rodeo announcer! Or a rider! 

   Thanks Mandy and K!  Yeah, it's pretty amazing how long 8 seconds feels when you're actively cheering for someone.  The clock counts by tenths of seconds, so it can actually feel endless.  I guess that last second is sometimes more of a mental hurdle than anything else (in terms of not letting down one's guard prematurely).  And, there are definitely a couple of very good female announcers for PBR events.  There's one woman in particular who they often have stationed behind the shoots to do the post-ride interviews, her name is Leah Garcia and she's very fun and knowledgeable.  So, yeah, Katherine, I'll keep it on the short-list of possible second-career options. 

[Front-Ranger]

Of course putting these pictures together reveals a movie mistake:

Jack hasn't included a return address on his card that says he will be coming through Riverton, even though Jack says to drop him a line.

Evidently, Ennis already knows where Jack is living when he writes him back to tell him "You bet!"  Since Jack doesn't include a return address, but asks Ennis to "drop him a line" (is this where Ennis gets his fishin' buddies reference?), Jack must already know that Ennis knows where Jack lives!

There are two mistakes revealed here...the story says that Ennis received a letter from Jack, not a postcard. And you can see that Jack writes "Friend this letter is long over due." The post cards came later.

[Artiste]

So, where is the letter ?