« on: April 02, 2006, 01:49:48 pm »
Hi,
Fernly has rescued a thread started by monimm18 about Jack's character. It's a beautiful thread. Well, I thought I shoud bring it here for us to enjoy it again. Forgive me please if someone has already do so. I'm only bringing part of it since it was quite long, but ferny is including the whole thing at TOB.
Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - monimm18 (Tue Jan 24 2006 11:26:10 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
UPDATED Sat Jan 28 2006 20:25:39
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OK, if all this was said before, sorry for the redundancy, but I really had to get it off my chest and hear what you think.
First theme is not my own thinking. Someone pointed out in another thread that the fact that Ennis cannot retrieve Jack's ashes to scatter them on Brokeback is the perfect symbol of how, even in death, Jack couldn't fulfill his dreams.
Second theme: about the scene of Ennis sitting by the window in Jack's room. At that point I was thinking how, beside the heartbreak of Jack's death, he has to process the story of the "ranch neighbor", and deal with the anguish and confusion, or doubts, that such news might elicit. Then, the camera angle changes, and we watch him from inside the closet. He turns and looks into the closet, into the camera, as if someone, Jack? is calling him.
I know, this was already said.
So, I'm watching Ennis walking into the closet, finding the shirts and holding them, breathing them in, and my heart sinks even deeper.
Then it hit me: Jack tending to Ennis' head wound after the bear incident, Jack reassuring Ennis when they make love for the first time, Jack comforting him when he gets hurt while wrestling, Jack protecting Ennis from the hurt of Aguirre knowing about them and insulting their relationship. Jack tenderly touching his cheek after Ennis sorrowfully explains why they cannot be together. Jack stubbornly holding Ennis when they fight and he crumbles. And finally, Jack reassuring Ennis that he was his true love, his only love, through the message of the shirts. Even in death.
"There ain't never enough time, never enough..."
Re: TWO THEMES ABOUT JACK'S CHARACTER - SPOILERS
by - HubbaHubbaBear (Tue Jan 24 2006 11:30:29 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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Very profound commentary. Thanks for your thoughts.
Patrick (Hubcap)
http://www.childhelpusa.org
Re: TWO THEMES ABOUT JACK'S CHARACTER - SPOILERS
by - poorlittleteacher (Tue Jan 24 2006 11:31:35 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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<<And finally, Jack reassuring Ennis that he was his true love, his only love by leading him to the shirts. Even in death. >>
I had a feeling it was Jack calling him to inspect the room a little further. Spiritual intervention kicks ass. 
Re: TWO THEMES ABOUT JACK'S CHARACTER - SPOILERS
by - Rontrigger (Tue Jan 24 2006 11:40:37 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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This may be the most profound post of all. I'm on a break at work, and now I'm gonna have to hide my tears somehow.
"You can't have Ennis without Jack."--Annie Proulx
Re: TWO THEMES ABOUT JACK'S CHARACTER - SPOILERS
by - starboardlight (Tue Jan 24 2006 11:52:57 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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Then it hit me: Jack reassuring Ennis when they make love for the first time, Jack comforting him when he gets hurt while wrestling, Jack protecting him from the hurt of Aguirre knowing about them and insulting their relationship. Jack tenderly touching his cheek after Ennis sorrowfully explains why they cannot be together. Jack stubbornly holding Ennis when they fight and he crumbles. And finally, Jack reassuring Ennis that he was his true love, his only love by leading him to the shirts. Even in death.
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that's really beautiful.
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - joyce023 (Tue Jan 24 2006 12:43:19 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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Thanks for the sharing. How beautiful it is!
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - b_hynds (Tue Jan 24 2006 15:54:51 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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posting so I can find this later.
"I did once" - BBM
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - the_Poppins (Tue Jan 24 2006 16:13:06 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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I didn't think of it that way. That's a great interpretation. Dang, this movie's even better than you realize.
When you cancel Arrested Development it hurts Jesus
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - Absolution79 (Tue Jan 24 2006 16:22:49 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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Jack was also instrumental in teach Ennis how to love.
Besides the scene with Alma Jr.'s sweater at the end of the movie, there was a moment at the Thanksgiving scene where Ennis reaches over, strokes Jenny's ear and says "I ain't no angel like you and Jenni."
This is exactly the same thing that Jack does to Ennis when Ennis explains to Jack why they can't be together on their first camping trip.
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - Ellemeno (Tue Jan 24 2006 16:30:22 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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Thank you
"It's nobody's business but ours - and our IMDb friends'."
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - monbon24 (Tue Jan 24 2006 16:36:43 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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Wow. Very powerful last paragraph. Nice points!
I like to mack on cupcakes.
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - You-Bet (Tue Jan 24 2006 16:54:27 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
UPDATED Tue Jan 24 2006 16:57:33
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BEAUTIFUL POSTING. Thank you for putting it all down on "paper" for us monimm18:) That's IT in a nutshell!
Just when I think I can no longer keep up with this fast-paced board...a posting like this comes around and re-ignites my imdb bbm "addiction", hehe.
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - thefabslv (Tue Jan 24 2006 16:59:36 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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I read the short story today and have begun reading the screenplay... Your post just punctuated everything beautifully...
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - romeshvr (Tue Jan 24 2006 17:18:47 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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come to think of it that whole closet scene made me jump, honest. that shot of ennis looking down the closet all the way from where he is sitting with the closet door wide open. like boom we see the closet with door wide open all of a sudden. is it not strange that a room kept for someone who was passed away had the closet door wide open in an otherwise completely shut up room. remember the main door to the room was closed and also the window. it is almost like jack saying come discover my love for you if you ever doubted it before for i always loved you no matter what and take me with you. did anyone notice that the window was still open when ennis walked out of the house with the shirts in a brown paper bag? could it be a symbol for jack being freed and finally in sprit lives with ennis eventhough jack's remains will be burried in the family plat. i certainly feel there was some presence there guiding ennis.
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - poorlittleteacher (Tue Jan 24 2006 17:20:24 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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<<Jack was also instrumental in teach Ennis how to love.
Besides the scene with Alma Jr.'s sweater at the end of the movie, there was a moment at the Thanksgiving scene where Ennis reaches over, strokes Jenny's ear and says "I ain't no angel like you and Jenni."
This is exactly the same thing that Jack does to Ennis when Ennis explains to Jack why they can't be together on their first camping trip>>
Ahhhwwwww...
Dammit it just keeps getting better and better.
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - monimm18 (Tue Jan 24 2006 19:30:13 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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Everyone, thanks for your responses!
"There ain't never enough time, never enough..."
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - Rontrigger (Tue Jan 24 2006 19:34:01 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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And if I remember right, when Jack did that, Ennis didn't pull away--not even a fraction of an inch.
"You can't have Ennis without Jack."--Annie Proulx
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - b_hynds (Tue Jan 24 2006 23:23:22 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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What a beautiful post!!!! I'm sure that I will cry even more the next time I watch the last scenes.
"I did once" - BBM
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - yanyan1221 (Thu Jan 26 2006 03:01:20 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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absolutely beautiful!
thanks for sharing~~
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - jscheib (Thu Jan 26 2006 06:19:33 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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Just beautiful, monimm18.
I picked up on Jack's "nurturing behavior" toward Ennis from my very first viewing, but you put the whole thing in a nutshell, beautifully--especially your thought about Jack leading him to the shirts.
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - Flickfan-3 (Thu Jan 26 2006 06:41:09 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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Your post is very thought provoking and I saw right away that you had captured that nurturing theme that flows in the movie. Maybe this next interpretation has been mentioned previously on other threads--if so, I am not meaning to steal anyone else's idea but Monimm's comments caught my imagination.
It took me back to Jack's flashback at their last reunion, when Ennis gives his only overtly loving gesture on the mountain that summer--if we discount the tent scenes for the moment. When Ennis comes up behind Jack while he is sleeping, embraces him, whispers in his ear, and then goes away--we see that Jack is still dreamy but aware and focused on Ennis's gift of love, because it is as strong or stronger a display of love to me than most of what happens in the tents since it is not connected to the passion of the body but of the spirit and/or soul.
Ennis's embrace of the shirts--holding them from behind like he held Jack, whispering just a little to them, replacated that flashback scene in my mind--and increased my sense of his loss--that moment is gone and can never be regained--Ennis rode off in that scene secure in their relationship, just as he drove off at the last reunion healed by Jack's love, and not realizing it was the last time. Perhaps he, too, was remembering how he embraced Jack on Brokeback.
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - brazzla (Thu Jan 26 2006 06:58:50 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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I think this ranks up there with one of the most profound posts I have read on here. And it was relatively short and concise... it was also one of the only ones that has really almost made me cry. Thanks for your thoughts...
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - jscheib (Thu Jan 26 2006 07:05:41 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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<<It took me back to Jack's flashback at their last reunion, when Ennis gives his only overtly loving gesture on the mountain that summer--if we discount the tent scenes for the moment. When Ennis comes up behind Jack while he is sleeping, embraces him, whispers in his ear, and then goes away--we see that Jack is still dreamy but aware and focused on Ennis's gift of love, because it is as strong or stronger a display of love to me than most of what happens in the tents since it is not connected to the passion of the body but of the spirit and/or soul.
Ennis's embrace of the shirts--holding them from behind like he held Jack, whispering just a little to them, replacated that flashback scene in my mind--and increased my sense of his loss--that moment is gone and can never be regained--Ennis rode off in that scene secure in their relationship, just as he drove off at the last reunion healed by Jack's love, and not realizing it was the last time. Perhaps he, too, was remembering how he embraced Jack on Brokeback.>>
Aww, Flick, that's beautiful! You're a person after my own heart. ...
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - romeshvr (Thu Jan 26 2006 07:05:53 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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you hit it on the nail flickfan-3. i think this is not about physical love but a love of the soul. i think that is why i'm hooked to mmb. that is why jack put up with everything. when the soul is in love nothign really matters...did anyone notice how jack says c'mere and hugs ennis whenever ennis is crying/hurting...i think that is very touching...shows how jack loves ennis...
Romesh
Pretty good with a can opener
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - romeshvr (Thu Jan 26 2006 07:16:12 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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you hit it on the nail flickfan-3. i think this is not about physical love but a love of the soul. i think that is why i'm hooked to mmb. that is why jack put up with everything. when the soul is in love nothign really matters...did anyone notice how jack says c'mere and hugs ennis whenever ennis is crying/hurting...i think that is very touching...shows how jack loves ennis...
Romesh
Pretty good with a can opener
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - bhall-25 (Thu Jan 26 2006 07:21:36 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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Yes, absolutely! Without Jack I don't think Ennis would have been able to love his girls so tenderly. Jack was definitely the nurturer and gave his heart so completely. And what a forgiving, loving heart it was!
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - Flickfan-3 (Thu Jan 26 2006 08:11:45 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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thanx for the compliments, guys--
just thought of something else connected with that lovey touch on the cheek--remember the sound track song "Wings"
Makes me think that the brush of the guys' hands either on each other's cheeks or Ennis's on Jenny's is like that the brush of an angel's wing--a connection from a better world that burnishes love and makes it brighter.
did someone already draw that that connection?
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - JackTwist (Thu Jan 26 2006 09:09:22 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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another beautiful thread. Made me happy and sad at the same time, my heart is here, this movie is so great...
Thx...
JackTwist
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/bbmountain
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - badnomad (Thu Jan 26 2006 09:25:15 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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I love the prfound thoughts. Was anyone else reminded from the scene in Jack's bedroom of the last scene of 2001 A Space Odyssey? Where the astronaut is in that sepulchral room (not unlike Jack's) amidst the defeaning silence. The camera goes from his space to then quickly edited to inside the adjoining room where we the viewer are watching him from a distance. He then notices something from afar and walks in where he confronts his older version dying.
Kinda way out there I know...but the scene in BBM reminded me of that.
Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - Flickfan-3 (Thu Jan 26 2006 13:03:04 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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can see where you might have drifted there--I am not big fan of that movie--but that image may give me a very creepy response the next time I see Brokeback
THANK YOU!
by - monimm18 (Thu Jan 26 2006 13:58:39 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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God, y'all...
I was sitting here today, reading the whole thread, and couldn't believe it had such an impact. I felt pretty relieved after I posted this thread, like I unburdened myself from the sorrow, but you all took it much further, with your moving insights.
Reading your responses kinda made me feel like part of a family. Really. Makes me even more grateful for this board.
A heartfelt thank you to everyone who understands and loves this film.
"There ain't never enough time, never enough..."
Re: THANK YOU!
by - Flickfan-3 (Fri Jan 27 2006 15:52:57 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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from a little acorn, a mighty oak--
that is the Brokeback phenom
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Re: Two themes about Jack 's character - SPOILER
by - agreeneyedgoddess1234 (Sat Jan 28 2006 20:08:09 ) Ignore this User | Report Abuse
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this thread is beautiful! deserves to be on top...
« Last Edit: April 02, 2006, 02:44:06 pm by opinionista »
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Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. -Mark Twain.
