Was Mexico all about revenge or about need?

[mvansand76]

I have wondered about this from the first time I saw the movie. Jack comes to Riverton after Ennis' divorce and assumes this is it: they are going to live their lives together. When that doesn't happen he heads out to Mexico. But is this trip about revenge (I'll show you what happens when you turn me down) or is it about need (right now, he isn't going to get sex from Ennis, so he heads to Mexico for that). I always think it's the first one, because it's not the sex that Jack drives all those hundreds of miles for, it's that sweet life with Ennis. I have always thought it was strange that the Mexico Sequence was right after the Jack Driving to Riverton After The Divorce Sequence because this would suggest strongly that Jack was in it for the sex. Anybody?

[Aussie Chris]

I think that if it was about revenge then Jack would have raised the issue before the confrontation at the lake (where he's not really given a choice but to confess the trip to Mexico).  On the other hand I agree that sex is not his primary motivator, but the desparate need for intimacy is.  I could imagine that he learns the hard way in Mexico that sex and intimacy can be polar opposites when you don't care for the person your with.  That's the thing about being gay, sex is too easy and love is too hard.

[Toast]

I have never considered revenge as being part of the Mexican trip that we see.
Jack has just been turfed out for the weekend,
He realizes that Ennis has more than a family preventing them from being a male-male couple.  So now he has a couple of days to kill, days that he desperately wanted to include some closeness and affection. 
Can he go back to Lureen and cry his heart out.  NO !!
So he heads off to where he knows he can be discreet.  But his attitude while there in Mexico isn't "I'll show the whoresonofabitch that I can have a good time".  His attitude was one of need and loneliness.  And he found out that what Chris says, is correct.

That's the thing about being gay, sex is too easy and love is too hard.

I cannot think of Jack as a revenge oriented or spiteful guy.

He was lonely, rejected and in need of a friend, even if he had to pay for the friendship.   When I see that scene, I always hope that the Mexican was a good listener.  Because I can see Jack talking more than fucking that night.

[Momof2]

I think it was done out of anger and revenge.  As I have said in another post, I do not think it was ever about just the sex.  He would not have hung on and had that much hope for sex.  I think he was devastated and it was more of a "I'll show him."  How many people have done stupid things because they were mad only to regret it.  I also think when he metioned it at the lake he was doing it more or less to make Ennis jealous.  I think Jack thought maybe if Ennis thinks he has a little competition he will come to his senses and realize that they were meant to be together.  Ennis just as any lover scorned reacted in an extreme anger.  As long as Jack was having sex with his wife or any other woman it was ok, but if it were another man then that was a different story.  I think because of the fact of how they met and how they came together that Ennis new it was something major.  He would not stand for the man he loved against all social opinions to be with another man.

[moremojo]

That's the thing about being gay, sex is too easy and love is too hard.

Chris, you have just encapsulated my own perception about the frequent loneliness of the gay male experience. Except I find it hard to even go for the sex--sex without an emotional connection feels so empty to me. What I really yearn for (as Jack did) is male intimacy, involving the spiritual, emotional, and physical planes, and this kind of connection is relatively rare. Jack's loneliness and isolation is an aspect of his character with which I strongly identify.

So segueing from this, I think Jack's motive in going to Mexico had less to do with revenge than with a hungry search for the intimacy and closeness that he wanted from Ennis, but of which he felt deprived. It turned out to be a futile search, but his heart propelled him to try nonetheless (Jack, as Jake has stated, is characterized by his willingness to try and try again).

[Jeff Wrangler]

Tell you what, I think that Jack's trip to Mexico that we see after the Ennis divorce debacle was his first trip to Mexico, but I don't think it was his only trip to Mexico.

As much as I love Jack, as much as I hurt for him after the post-divorce scene, to some extent his going off to Mexico makes me think of a little kid who hasn't gotten his way. In that sense I agree with Momof2's "I'll show him" comment.

However, I've also come to feel that there is more than one layer to Jack's eventual remark to Ennis, at the lake, that he can't make it on a couple of high-altitude fucks once or twice a year. I think Jack means this literally--he has a stronger need for male-male sex than Ennis, who is able to wait for his meetings with Jack--and thus I think Jack's trips to Mexico continued over the years, after the one we see following Ennis's divorce. But I also think the deeper meaning of the remark is that Jack needs the emotional intimacy, and he's not getting this from one or two fishing trips a year with Ennis. I think is what is behind Jack's comment the night before the confrontation that sometimes he misses Ennis so bad he can hardly stand it.

[Marge_Innavera]

He was lonely, rejected and in need of a friend, even if he had to pay for the friendship.   When I see that scene, I always hope that the Mexican was a good listener.  Because I can see Jack talking more than fucking that night.

My take on that scene is that it was partly out of anger, but even more a need for at least imagined intimacy. The world's so-called oldest profession (probably flint-knapping in reality) wouldn't exist without that kind of need, although that's more blatant in prostitution's middle and upper classes.

There was probably sexual frustration there too, though if he did take up with Randall those Mexico trips probably ended around 1978. But if anger was a factor it isn't surprising - whatever his motives Ennis essentially turned him away "like a door-to-door salesman", to quote a fanfic. That's the point where their relationship starts to go downhill fast.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Except I find it hard to even go for the sex--sex without an emotional connection feels so empty to me. What I really yearn for (as Jack did) is male intimacy, involving the spiritual, emotional, and physical planes, and this kind of connection is relatively rare. Jack's loneliness and isolation is an aspect of his character with which I strongly identify.

Me, too.

Hey, Scott? Will you marry me? 

What really frustrates me is that I seem to know an awful lot of gay men who don't get this and don't understand how I feel. As long as they're getting laid, they're happy. I admit that there are times I envy them their emotionally uncomplicated lives, but such is not my lot in life. 

[moremojo]

What really frustrates me is that I seem to know an awful lot of gay men who don't get this and don't understand how I feel. As long as they're getting laid, they're happy. I admit that there are times I envy them their emotionally uncomplicated lives, but such is not my lot in life. 

I wish I could be more carefree in my sex life than I so far have been, because physical intimacy is a kind of intimacy, and is valuable. But there's just some inner part of me that resists no-strings-attached sex--I've tried it, and I either end up feeling hollow and lonelier than before, or emotionally/psychically bruised.

Now, I wish to affirm that I do not judge others who pursue this path, and like you, even envy such folks at times. And, as some here may know, I enjoy pornography and actively consume that form of entertainment, and such product is replete with people enjoying sex without necessarily feeling emotional attachment to their partner(s). And what they are creating really feels like a gift--they are giving some pleasure to the rest of the world. So I bless these folks, and thank them, but at the same time realize that I would probably never feel comfortable following their example, either onscreen or in my own private path.

[mvansand76]

However, I've also come to feel that there is more than one layer to Jack's eventual remark to Ennis, at the lake, that he can't make it on a couple of high-altitude fucks once or twice a year. I think Jack means this literally--he has a stronger need for male-male sex than Ennis, who is able to wait for his meetings with Jack--and thus I think Jack's trips to Mexico continued over the years, after the one we see following Ennis's divorce. But I also think the deeper meaning of the remark is that Jack needs the emotional intimacy, and he's not getting this from one or two fishing trips a year with Ennis. I think is what is behind Jack's comment the night before the confrontation that sometimes he misses Ennis so bad he can hardly stand it.

I agree, I always saw through that 'high altitude fucks' remark, it being more about the company of Ennis that he misses, this was just Jack's way of making Ennis understand what he needs, the companionship, the emotional intimacy as you call it (that everybody really looks for), that it's not just about the sex. Funny way of putting it of course, but that's Jack for you...