Was Mexico all about revenge or about need?

[Jeff Wrangler]

It's more the moment after Jack wipes that tear away, when he sets his face and we hear the engine rev, that it seems like he's angry. That's the moment when I can see Jeff's point.

Thanks, Mel! That's exactly where I'm coming from! 

[serious crayons]

Although no one in his right mind ought to consider sex with a hustler in a foreign country as a "safe" activity, perhaps "getting it" in Mexico was considered "safer" in the sense that it was perceived there was less a chance you might run into someone who knows you? As in, "Hi, Jack, what are you doing in Denver?"

What happens in Juarez stays in Juarez.

Also, maybe it's easier? I'm just guessing, obviously I have no personal experience. And I do realize there would be ways to find a prostitute in Denver if you wanted to. But are there streets in Denver like the one in Juarez, where all you do is walk along, make eye contact with someone, the guy steps up and says "Senor" and off you go?

Even Ennis had heard Mexico was the place.

And of course, from a storytelling point of view, it wouldn't carry quite the same weight to show Jack wiping away a tear and looking angry and resolute as he passed a roadsign to Colorado.

[Jeff Wrangler]

What happens in Juarez stays in Juarez.

Also, maybe it's easier? I'm just guessing, obviously I have no personal experience. And I do realize there would be ways to find a prostitute in Denver if you wanted to. But are there streets in Denver like the one in Juarez, where all you do is walk along, make eye contact with someone, the guy steps up and says "Senor" and off you go?

Even Ennis had heard Mexico was the place.

And of course, from a storytelling point of view, it wouldn't carry quite the same weight to show Jack wiping away a tear and looking angry and resolute as he passed a roadsign to Colorado.

You're probably right about the "easy" part, Katherine. I'm guessing it would be easier to find it in Denver today than in Ennis and Jack's day? Though it would still be fascinating to know how U.S. cowboys who wanted it on the down-low came to know that Mexico was the place.

[Momof2]

Though it would still be fascinating to know how U.S. cowboys who wanted it on the down-low came to know that Mexico was the place.


I wonder about that too.  Jack and Ennis do not seem to be worldly men.  They pretty much stayed in the same areas.  Then you see Jack go to Mexico for a male prostitute.  Even Ennis knows whats in Mexico for boys like Jack.  Then the whole dope smoking. I know that has been brought up on another thread, but it just seems odd to me.

[serious crayons]

Though it would still be fascinating to know how U.S. cowboys who wanted it on the down-low came to know that Mexico was the place.

Well, I think traditionally Mexico has been the place for a lot of things that are harder to obtain in the U.S.: quickie divorces, marijuana, questionable medical procedures ...

You can walk across a bridge from El Paso to Juarez. Juarez is pretty poor and, according to stereotype, less strictly policed (or at least the law-enforcement is less by-the-book). So from an economic standpoint, industries that cater to American no-nos are probably a natural consequence.

Still, how did Ennis know about it so specifically? I can't imagine his coworkers, when exchanging travel tips, recommending it as a destination for sex tourism. But maybe they would taunt each other with the "You been to Mexico?" line.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Still, how did Ennis know about it so specifically? I can't imagine his coworkers, when exchanging travel tips, recommending it as a destination for sex tourism. But maybe they would taunt each other with the "You been to Mexico?" line.

Well, I wouldn't exactly call it recommending a destination for sex tourism, but I've always assumed that Ennis did pick it up from talk among his coworkers. When I think that Ennis was doing a man's job to support himself at an age when most kids don't even have a driver's license, I've always imagined he picked up a lot of stuff from older coworkers joking and talking about things they probably shouldn't have around a young boy--but I guess you grow up early and quick when you're in a situation like Ennis's. But that doesn't answer the question, How did his coworkers know that Mexico was the place?

[nakymaton]

But that doesn't answer the question, How did his coworkers know that Mexico was the place?

From seasonal agricultural laborers? I don't know much about the history of agricultural laborers in the western US, but I think there may have been more seasonal workers traveling from Mexico and other parts of Latin America than I realize. (I know there are a lot of seasonal agricultural workers today, more than most people think about, even in places that are awfully far from Mexico.) I don't know how much ranches (as opposed to farms) hire seasonal workers -- but we know from AP's "Getting Movied" essay that most sheepherders were Basque and then South American, and that she was worried that it might be historically inaccurate to have a couple Anglo kids herding sheep.

And, yeah, I think Ennis would have been much less sheltered from rumors than, say, his daughters would have been.

[serious crayons]

I lived for a couple of years in a farm town in northern Minnesota. All -- or at least almost all -- of the migrant agricultural workers were Spanish-speaking, and were commonly referred to as Mexicans (though some may have come from Spanish-speaking communities in the southwest U.S., I suppose).

Also, Ennis probably had non-Mexican coworkers who were from the border area and had heard hearsay about what people go to Mexico for. I know that people go to Canada for cheap prescription drugs, though I've never done it myself or talked directly to anyone who has.

[Front-Ranger]

It is sad and ironic but it seems like the thing homophobic men talk about most is homosexuality. Some people focus most on the thing they fear and hate. You want to hear about Hillary Clinton, just dial up Bill O'Reily or what's his name, you know, the drug addict. 

[moremojo]

It is sad and ironic but it seems like the thing homophobic men talk about most is homosexuality. Some people focus most on the thing they fear and hate.

Sure enough...and methinks they focus on what they fear and hate in themselves. Why would a man secure in his own heterosexuality get unduly worked up about the issue, unless maybe he became the unwelcome object of a gay man's attentions? And even then, why can't a straight man regard the admiration of another man as a compliment rather than a threat? One should be wary of overgeneralizations, but I perceive that women tend to be a lot less hung up on the issue of sexual identity than men, and are more open to experimentation, and I think this has a whole lot to do with the differences between how men and women are socialized in our culture.