getting hit hard by offhand revelations (story discussion)

[Front-Ranger]

And the movie reinforced that with Ennis's parting words to Jack, "Well, I guess I'll see you around, huh."

And the "what if we have to work for Aguirre agin

He never thought he'd not see Jack again.

[Cameron]

As wrote in the other thread, that is the line that got me the most, "What if we need to work for Aquirre again..." That line stood out for me the first couple of times I have seen it and even more ever since,,,( i think I am at about 25 in a month}.  I think it truly does mean that Ennis was sure there was a future together at that point. I mean it just couln't be sort of a throwaway line.  The next scene when they were riding the horses he gives Jack an incredible look of affection and love....

Thats why I am so convinced that for Ennis it was Jacks reaction to leaving and the fight and its aftermath that changed everythig for Ennis.

He wasn't going to try to contact Jack over the next four years, because he waited for and needed Jack to take the lead.  just mho.

[serious crayons]

He wasn't going to try to contact Jack over the next four years, because he waited for and needed Jack to take the lead.  just mho.

I agree, marlb42. Clearly Ennis would have loved to see Jack at anytime during those four years: we see him pining, we see him overjoyed by the postcard and by Jack's appearance. But there's no way he could have taken the initiative, at that point, to look up Jack's parents in Lightning Flat. It just isn't in his personality. His homophobia wouldn't let him, and he would be terrified of rejection.

At the end of the movie, when he finally visits LF and tacitly acknowledges his relationship with Jack, it's a huge step for him. Sort of a mini coming out.

As for how he acts at their parting in Signal, to me his behavior and body language scream, "Do something, Jack! Say something to keep this from happening!" But he doesn't know how to say that out loud.

[Cameron]

As for how he acts at their parting in Signal, to me his behavior and body language scream, "Do something, Jack! Say something to keep this from happening!" But he doesn't know how to say that out loud.

[/quote]

Wow, you put that so, so well, I agree so totally!!!!!!

To me to he was screaming at Jack, the only way he knew how, or could , but Jack didn't hear him..

If only he had..

[nakymaton]

Lately another sentece in the short story hit me (motel scene):

"I didn't know where the hell you was," said Ennis. "Four years. I about give up on you. I figured you was sore about that punch."

That line in the story made two points to me. First, it's a surprise indication that we haven't been told everything going on in Ennis's mind during those four years. If you took the description of Ennis's domestic life at face value, you might assume that the relationship on the mountain was some kind of anomaly. But it wasn't.

And the other thing that struck me in this section, again, was that Jack wasn't blameless in the separation... or at least that Ennis blamed Jack, at least in part. (There's another part where Ennis pointedly doesn't ask Jack whose fault the four-year separation was, as if it was Jack's fault, at least as far as Ennis sees it.) And that adds to the sense that Jack had tried to move on, a sense that is reinforced by the comment that Jack had been "riding more than bulls"... which is one reason why the discovery at the shirts at the end is such a surprise emotional blow.

I don't know what story-Ennis did. Somehow I can't picture Ennis asking people about Jack. And it makes me wonder exactly what he expected Jack to do -- Ennis didn't go back to Aguirre that next summer, he had married, his folks were dead -- how hard did Ennis expect Jack to look?

[Penthesilea]

Story Ennis had a perfectly good source of information about Jack, namely that he knew Jack's parents lived in Lightning Flat.  If he'd really wanted to find him, he could have asked them to tell Jack to get in touch.

You're right about LF. That's why I inserted the 'half-heartedly' in my post. If he had been determined to find Jack, he could have done so.
The thought of story!Ennis maybe looking for Jack never occurred to me before. And I don't know if you even could call it this. What I thought of were situations maybe on a local rodeo or stock market, where he might have gone to, talked a little business with a guy, then potentially might have asked for a guy name a Jack Twist... These kind of things.
But Ennis, even story!Ennis, doing such kind of talk, presenting himself socially to strangers...I don't know.
Seems it is a too far streched interpretation of the sentence.

While typing Mel's reply came in, saying something similar about storyEnmnis asking people about Jack. I'll post this anyway.

[Penthesilea]

And the movie reinforced that with Ennis's parting words to Jack, "Well, I guess I'll see you around, huh."

And the "what if we have to work for Aguirre agin

He never thought he'd not see Jack again.

Yes, I got the same feeling from the movie. We also see Ennis yearn for Jack these four years, we are shown his lonliness despite Alma+daughters.
But like Mel already said, we have nothing of this in the story. Proulx describes Ennis' domestic life within those four years without a thought of Jack (but maybe another small hint with her choice of words: Ennis favoured the little appartment "because it could be left at any time.").

[Penthesilea]

Thats why I am so convinced that for Ennis it was Jacks reaction to leaving and the fight and its aftermath that changed everythig for Ennis.

He wasn't going to try to contact Jack over the next four years, because he waited for and needed Jack to take the lead.  just mho.

I agree, marlb42. Clearly Ennis would have loved to see Jack at anytime during those four years: we see him pining, we see him overjoyed by the postcard and by Jack's appearance. But there's no way he could have taken the initiative, at that point, to look up Jack's parents in Lightning Flat. It just isn't in his personality. His homophobia wouldn't let him, and he would be terrified of rejection.

At the end of the movie, when he finally visits LF and tacitly acknowledges his relationship with Jack, it's a huge step for him. Sort of a mini coming out.

As for how he acts at their parting in Signal, to me his behavior and body language scream, "Do something, Jack! Say something to keep this from happening!" But he doesn't know how to say that out loud.

I absolutely agree with both of you. No way movieEnnis would dare to ask, even in the most casual way, for Jack.
I thought/think the same for storyEnnis. Until today the above mentioned thought about Ennis' sentence on the motel occurred to me.


And as you know, I also agree about the parting day and Ennis lingering and waiting at Jack's truck. If only...

[Penthesilea]

That line in the story made two points to me. First, it's a surprise indication that we haven't been told everything going on in Ennis's mind during those four years. If you took the description of Ennis's domestic life at face value, you might assume that the relationship on the mountain was some kind of anomaly. But it wasn't.

Yes. With just one short, unimposing (at first sight) sentence she contradicts the impression she had given the reader in describing Ennis's life during the four years. But she doesn't say it bluntly, you have to think what the reverse of what Ennis said means.
I had missed this example and just discovered it lately. God knows what else I have missed in the story. I think I have to re-read the whole story. It's months ago that I read it in a row. Since then I only looked up certain scenes. She's effin ingenious.

And the other thing that struck me in this section, again, was that Jack wasn't blameless in the separation... or at least that Ennis blamed Jack, at least in part. (There's another part where Ennis pointedly doesn't ask Jack whose fault the four-year separation was, as if it was Jack's fault, at least as far as Ennis sees it.) And that adds to the sense that Jack had tried to move on, a sense that is reinforced by the comment that Jack had been "riding more than bulls"... which is one reason why the discovery at the shirts at the end is such a surprise emotional blow.

I think Ennis was right here: Jack wasn't blameless in the seperation. For the reasons you stated.

I don't know what story-Ennis did. Somehow I can't picture Ennis asking people about Jack. And it makes me wonder exactly what he expected Jack to do -- Ennis didn't go back to Aguirre that next summer, he had married, his folks were dead -- how hard did Ennis expect Jack to look?

(emphasis mine)

Guess you all are right about this. Most likely Ennis did not ask for Jack.

[fernly]

Yes, I got the same feeling from the movie. We also see Ennis yearn for Jack these four years, we are shown his lonliness despite Alma+daughters.
But like Mel already said, we have nothing of this in the story. Proulx describes Ennis' domestic life within those four years without a thought of Jack (but maybe another small hint with her choice of words: Ennis favoured the little appartment "because it could be left at any time.").

Good points.
A couple other indications in the story:
When right after the separation Ennis felt "like someone was pulling his guts out hand over hand a yard at at time" and "He felt about as bad as he ever had and it took a long time for the feeling to wear off." That "long time" makes it sound, to me, like he was feeling that bad well into his married life.

And then, "he rolled her over. Did quickly what she hated."