Author Topic: Jack's adolescence is a blank page...  (Read 14164 times)

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Jack's adolescence is a blank page...
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2006, 02:16:05 pm »
I've been figuring Jack got "initiated" in the summer of '62. I doubt he was up there on Brokeback by himself, even if Joe Aguirre did blame him when the lightning killed those 42 sheep. Too dangerous--to the herder and the sheep--to have one man up there by himself. (If he falls off his horse and breaks his leg, he could die before anyone finds him, and coyotes would get the sheep.)

True. And if that initiation did take place, Jack would have more than one reason, in talking to Ennis, to say "I" instead of "we." Whereas if he and the other guy were just ordinary coworkers, why not use the plural?

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Jack's adolescence is a blank page...
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2006, 02:37:58 pm »
Yes, and if Aguirre got wind of what happened in '62, all the more reason for him to "snoop around" (takes one to know one) by going up to "give Jack the information" about Uncle Harold, which he would not ordinarily bother to do.

Having a big blank space in Jack's biography of his youth fits in with the Christ imagery (I hesitate to bring this up too much, but it certainly is there). Also, circumcision=little crucifixion?
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Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: Jack's adolescence is a blank page...
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2006, 02:44:36 pm »
Yes, and if Aguirre got wind of what happened in '62, all the more reason for him to "snoop around" (takes one to know one) by going up to "give Jack the information" about Uncle Harold, which he would not ordinarily bother to do.

Having a big blank space in Jack's biography of his youth fits in with the Christ imagery (I hesitate to bring this up too much, but it certainly is there). Also, circumcision=little crucifixion?
Most white American born males were circumsized at least until recently.
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

moremojo

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Re: Jack's adolescence is a blank page...
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2006, 03:21:58 pm »
Most white American born males were circumsized at least until recently.
It would be interesting to read some statistics on this matter. I was born in 1967, and was circumcised very soon after birth, and my father, born in 1941, was likewise circumcised. My mother chose to have the procedure done on me precisely to avoid any discrepancy between father and son, to preempt the kind of issue that seems to trouble Jack. Both my father and I are white American males, and I would describe my family background as upper middle-class. I suspect that class might sometimes have played an issue on whether the decision was made. Perhaps I'm digging myself into a hole here...

Some folks are probably thinking...TOO MUCH INFORMATION! But it's an interesting question that pertinently bears on Annie's story, and our possible interpretations of it.

Offline jpwagoneer1964

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Re: Jack's adolescence is a blank page...
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2006, 03:29:31 pm »
It  I suspect that class might sometimes have played an issue on whether the decision was made. Perhaps I'm digging myself into a hole here...

Some folks are probably thinking...TOO MUCH INFORMATION! But it's an interesting question that pertinently bears on Annie's story, and our possible interpretations of it.
I would certianly agree that economic circimstances would play a role. (no pun intended).
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Jack's adolescence is a blank page...
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2006, 04:00:21 pm »
My mother chose to have the procedure done on me precisely to avoid any discrepancy between father and son,

That's a pretty common rationale. Maybe Annie Proulx thought of that, and realized it would be a good way of introducing a distinction between father and son. (Where she got the abusive peeing from, though, I can't imagine.)

moremojo

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Re: Jack's adolescence is a blank page...
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2006, 05:04:14 pm »
That's a pretty common rationale.
And a rather silly one, to my mind (sorry, Mom).
(Where she got the abusive peeing from, though, I can't imagine.)
This incident seems tinged, to my mind, with an element of sexual sadism. This kind of behavior goes far beyond even the kind of corporal discipline that one associates with older generations ("spare the rod and spoil the child"). It might hint at an incestuous dynamic, possibly sublimated, within the Twist household, that might raise further questions as to the formation of Jack's sexual identity, not to mention his character as a whole.

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Jack's adolescence is a blank page...
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2006, 05:33:30 pm »
As to why Jack is circumcised, I wondered about this, too. But then shrugged this topic off with the knowledge that it is not as unsusual in the US as it is here. Here boys are only circumcised due to religious or medical reasons.

This incident seems tinged, to my mind, with an element of sexual sadism. This kind of behavior goes far beyond even the kind of corporal discipline that one associates with older generations ("spare the rod and spoil the child").

I'm with you here. This goes beyond the "usual" child abuse/maltreatment (like birching, bullying, beating) and tinges to child molestation (abuse with a sexual content).

Quote
It might hint at an incestuous dynamic, possibly sublimated, within the Twist household, that might raise further questions as to the formation of Jack's sexual identity, not to mention his character as a whole.
Sometimes I'm wondering where Jack got his spiritednes and his optimism from. And how he was able to conserve it through his childhood.
Maybe not despite, but  because of the situation at home? Daydreaming and always hoping for a better future as his only way of escape?


moremojo

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Re: Jack's adolescence is a blank page...
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2006, 05:49:11 pm »

Sometimes I'm wondering where Jack got his spiritednes and his optimism from. And how he was able to conserve it through his childhood.
This has become one of life's Great Questions for me, especially in regard to Movie Jack. Where did that bright, sensitive, and loving person come from? These kinds of beautiful exemplars of humanity are relatively rare even in more accommodating environments, but seem especially extraordinary given the harsh world delineated by this story and film.
Maybe not despite, but  because of the situation at home? Daydreaming and always hoping for a better future as his only way of escape?
Insofar as the film goes, I felt that Ma Twist probably had a lot to do with shaping her son's character. In the story, where Mrs. Twist remains an even more shadowy character than her husband, this is not so readily apparent.

But I think you raise an interesting point that Jack's loving nature could have been the product of an environment in which love was absent. He had a dream of what love was, or might be, and cultivated that within himself and his relations with others, even if he didn't have such modeled for him. It's an intriguing line of speculation. Moreover, it's illuminating to remember that Ennis and Jack came from very similar backgrounds (this is emphasized in the story), and Ennis became the pragmatic "stander", while Jack metamorphosed into the optimistic, dreamy "fixer". Two men of very different temperaments that complemented one another.

Offline Daniel

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Re: Jack's adolescence is a blank page...
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2006, 06:09:57 pm »
Ya know, playin' Jack on the Performance Thread ( I know its not the same as the book Jack or the movie Jack, but its as close as I can make it), I kind of have a little insight into his adolescence, not much, but the main point is like Scott said. He is bright, sensitive, and loving; he's also witty and has an upbeat view on life, for the most part. I would also have to say he has an innocent heart, and I'm not certain if you will know what I mean by that. He was more worldly than Ennis but somehow Ennis lived his life as though he could never have anything he wanted, and that was something that Jack could never do. He continued to live with hope and optimism except for those few moments when Ennis stripped it away from him, driving him slowly insane.

Jack tried to offer what he could to Ennis. He gave of himself fully and completely and had practically from the beginning. Ennis seemed to be just the opposite, and the few times when Ennis brings himself to give back as fully as Jack are those moments in the film which we audience members continually fall in love with: those few moments of perfect happiness and bliss in a world which says that we're wrong, as the song goes.

In one way, that is why I find it so sad to leave the Performance Thread as Jack. Jack still has so much to give and offer of himself in the course of events yet to follow, and a few perfect moments yet to live, when the drive toward them cannot be stopped by any pain or death.  It is easy to fall in love with Jack, while channeling him, I will say that much, and I would not be surprised if there was some aspect of this falling in love in the writing of fan-fictions regarding him.
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