Author Topic: Horse is falling off the menu in France  (Read 21873 times)

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Horse is falling off the menu in France
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2009, 12:27:27 pm »
"Dogs are wonderful, and in many ways unique. But they are remarkably unremarkable in their intellectual and experiential capacities. Pigs are every bit as intelligent and feeling, by any sensible definition of the words. They can't hop into the back of a Volvo, but they can fetch, run and play, be mischievous, and reciprocate affection. So why don't they get to curl up by the fire? Why can't they at least be spared being tossed on the fire?

"Our taboo against dog eating says something about dogs and a great deal about us.

"The French, who love their dogs, sometimes eat their horses.

"The Spanish, who love their horses, sometimes eat their cows.

"The Indians, who love their cows, sometimes eat their dogs.

"While written in a much different context, George Orwell's words (from Animal Farm) apply here: 'All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.' The protective emphasis is not a law of nature; it comes from the stories we tell about nature."

-- Jonathan Safran Foer, Eating Animals.

Well, the problem is, sometimes people love their horses and then eat them, too.

As Roland points out, humans are omnivores.  We succeed in life because like bears, we're capable of eating anything in front of us.  We were not designed primarily as vegetarians as our digestive system design shows, and we digest proteins the easiest.  Pound for pound, meat gives the most bang for the buck (so to speak).  Giving a tough trial in the wilderness, we would not only eat our dogs, cats, rats and horses - any creature within reach, we'd also eat any other creature we'd be able to catch.  Though given a lack of a gun or any modern aids, that would be quite difficult.

I've mentioned on BetterMost before that, for a little over a year now, I've been eating a mainly vegetarian diet.  I cheat once in a while and on special occasions (like Thanksgiving) I'll still eat meat... I mean I don't consider it an absolute prohibition.  But, for instance, I don't think I've purchased meat at the grocery store once this whole year.

A variety of things caused me to do this, but the main thing / motivating factor (in addition to news about animal abuse against stock reported from time to time)  that sticks out in my mind was walking through a cow pasture with Lee on the side of Brokenback Mountain during the summer of 08.  Seeing those cows and their calves and being so close to them has impacted me more than I can describe or rationalize (I know it's not a logical thing).  And, it's not like that was the first time I ever encountered cows before... but this image always stops me in my tracks especially when it comes to consuming beef.  I didn't stop eating meat right away after that... but by the fall of 08 I'd stopped.  

It seems very hard to me to judge what animals are worthy of not being eaten.

I hear you, atz.  But as you said it's a personal decision.  While backpacking in the mountains in Wyoming, my group ran across some cows as well.  A friend of mine - a country girl used to cattle - was disgusted.  The presence of them ruined the trip over the pass for her.  The pass was full of cow pats and cow ticks and she called them stupid...let's just say the sight of them didn't move her to want to eat steaks any less.

Like Ennis and Jack, livestock was just meat on the hoof to her.

However, that being said, I find myself dismayed at the cruelty at which our livestock is killed.  I thought for the most part there were laws reinforcing the humaneness of the kill.  A man who worked as a cattle butcher told me about the techniques they used.  But apparently the laws are not as strict as I thought.  Stuff I read from PETA on chickens is horrifying and on another board I went to, when describing the worst jobs we ever had, one guy wrote about his job pig killing.  How he had to go into the stockyards and kill all the sick pigs by beating them to death.  He talked about the blood and the screams of the pigs and it was just sickening to read.  Yet vegetables don't appeal to me that much and a great many of the sweet and starchy ones I shouldn't eat, so a diet heavy in meat suits me a lot better.

To live, something else must die.  Plants are just a lesser evil since we can't hear them scream, but botanists can tell you that when you do cut plants, they recoil, so they are experiencing some sort of reflex to being damaged.  If we could survive on air and water, we would.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Horse is falling off the menu in France
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2009, 02:16:34 pm »
So, anybody know what "cut" of horse is considered best? And how to cook it?
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Horse is falling off the menu in France
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2009, 02:25:15 pm »
The loin, I would imagine.

Why is it a problem that people love their horses and also eat them? That's what the Mongolians did, and they were quite successful in Genghis Khan's day. (This exhibit is at the Denver Museum of Nature and Science, and I want to see it very badly!) Horses provided not only transportation but also food, clothing, shelter, roping, and liquid sustenance (milk).

As for pigs, I loved the pigs that made the journey from Lonesome Dove to Montana in the book Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry. They were smart animals and their owner wouldn't think of killing them for food!! (unless he needed to.)

I love the chickens I have now and they are producing tasty eggs, but when the time comes, they'll be making their final appearance on the family dining table.

I also love my plants, and think of them as sentient beings just as much as animals are. They don't talk much, but they get their point across!
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Offline delalluvia

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Re: Horse is falling off the menu in France
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2009, 02:41:23 pm »
Why is it a problem that people love their horses and also eat them? That's what the Mongolians did, and they were quite successful in Genghis Khan's day. (This exhibit is at the Denver Museum of Nature and Science, and I want to see it very badly!) Horses provided not only transportation but also food, clothing, shelter, roping, and liquid sustenance (milk).

The betrayal, I imagine.  Once they outlived their usefulness in other ways to us, after we developed a bond of trust with them, we didn't wait for them to die, we killed them.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Horse is falling off the menu in France
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2009, 03:02:53 pm »
Giving a tough trial in the wilderness, we would not only eat our dogs, cats, rats and horses - any creature within reach, we'd also eat any other creature we'd be able to catch.

And sometimes even each other.

Hey, it's been known to happen. ...
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Horse is falling off the menu in France
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2009, 03:06:03 pm »
And sometimes even each other.

Hey, it's been known to happen. ...

Ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Horse is falling off the menu in France
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2009, 04:01:27 pm »
Ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

And I love children. Especially with stuffing and gravy. ...
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Horse is falling off the menu in France
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2009, 04:32:51 pm »
Giving a tough trial in the wilderness, we would not only eat our dogs, cats, rats and horses - any creature within reach, we'd also eat any other creature we'd be able to catch.

Including humans, according to the movie (and, I assume, the book) The Road.


Quote
However, that being said, I find myself dismayed at the cruelty at which our livestock is killed.  I thought for the most part there were laws reinforcing the humaneness of the kill.  A man who worked as a cattle butcher told me about the techniques they used.  But apparently the laws are not as strict as I thought.  Stuff I read from PETA on chickens is horrifying and on another board I went to, when describing the worst jobs we ever had, one guy wrote about his job pig killing.  How he had to go into the stockyards and kill all the sick pigs by beating them to death.  He talked about the blood and the screams of the pigs and it was just sickening to read.

The book that I quoted above (Eating Meat, by Jonathan Safran Foer) brought home some things that I already knew at some level but tried to suppress, and put them in vivid, awful detail. For example, 1) Not only do meat animals die horrifying deaths -- what's worse, factory-farmed animals live horrifying lives, spending their entire existence in cramped, dark, airless compartments -- in the case of chickens, cages the size of a sheet of printer paper -- bred or drugged or mutilated in ways that maximize meat production but cause discomfort, deformity and disease for the animals themselves 2) Almost all of the meat in this country comes from factory farms 3) Chickens that provide eggs and cows that provide milk don't have it much, if any, better, so anybody who isn't a vegan isn't entirely absolved of complicity in this process.

On the other hand, eating meat makes us human in a very literal sense. There's archeological evidence that eating meat -- both consuming the additional protein plus the demands of trying to outsmart larger, fiercer animals -- caused our ancestors' brains to grow bigger.

Quote
To live, something else must die.  Plants are just a lesser evil since we can't hear them scream, but botanists can tell you that when you do cut plants, they recoil, so they are experiencing some sort of reflex to being damaged.  If we could survive on air and water, we would.

If you are really concerned about killing plants, you can try to live off things you don't need to kill. For instance, if you eat an apple, you're not killing an apple tree -- the apple is designed to be eaten. If you ate the whole thing, seeds and all, then pooped the seeds out in a place where another tree could grow, you would be performing the exact service for the apple population that nature intended.



Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Horse is falling off the menu in France
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2009, 05:17:22 pm »

It seems true that there's little way out of the dilemma of harming animals one way or another when it comes to the food supply (somehow I'm simply not as concerned with plants as food).  Even the harvesting of vegetable crops often results in the death of animals living in the various fields, etc.

I still, on a personal level, can't eat meat anymore without feeling guilty.  It's definitely tasty, but I never feel particularly good about myself when I do eat it these days (and I'm not talking about calorie count here).  It doesn't seem at all necessary to me to eat meat on a regular basis (especially for a casual meal or quick/careless lunch or something), so I choose to do it very sparringly, or as I mentioned earlier... on special occasions.


LOL, there are also some sexual benefits to being a vegetarian (at least when it comes to women) that are pretty interesting... which is not at all why I've decided to go with a vegetarian diet.  But, I think that's one reason why a lot of lesbians are vegetarians.



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Offline milomorris

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Re: Horse is falling off the menu in France
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2009, 05:18:31 pm »
The book that I quoted above (Eating Meat, by Jonathan Safran Foer) brought home some things that I already knew at some level but tried to suppress, and put them in vivid, awful detail. For example, 1) Not only do meat animals die horrifying deaths -- what's worse, factory-farmed animals live horrifying lives, spending their entire existence in cramped, dark, airless compartments -- in the case of chickens, cages the size of a sheet of printer paper -- bred or drugged or mutilated in ways that maximize meat production but cause discomfort, deformity and disease for the animals themselves 2) Almost all of the meat in this country comes from factory farms 3) Chickens that provide eggs and cows that provide milk don't have it much, if any, better, so anybody who isn't a vegan isn't entirely absolved of complicity in this process.

Two thoughts:

1. I'm sure this stuff happens, but I have to wonder how widespread it really is. I have seen dairy farms here in the rural counties outside the Philadelphia area, and their cows spend all day grazing in the fields rather than stuck in airless stalls. So apparently there are people out there that do treat their animals humanely. At the same time, we know that there are those that do not.

2. Considering the way carnivores kill their prey in the wild, I'm not sure how much more horrifying the deaths of livestock are at the hands of humans.
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