Author Topic: symbols that are different in the story vs the movie  (Read 14305 times)

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: symbols that are different in the story vs the movie
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2007, 12:29:21 am »
Well, I think the harmonica is an interesting topic to consider.  I think it functions in both the story and the film in at least one capacity.  In both, it reinforces Jack's wind symbol (as you bring up).  And, you're right that the harmonica is a touch of comic relief in the movie.  There really aren't a lot of moments of "comic relief" that I can think of in the story of the top of my head.  But, I think in the film the harmonica also becomes a source of great nostalgia for both Ennis and Jack.  In the prayer of thanks scene, Ennis brings up the harmonica (1) to lighten the mood (2) to avoid having to say what he's really feeling about Jack explicitly and (3) to bring up a subject that could be something for them to bond over.  I think the meaning of the harmonica shifts during the scene on horseback following the mixed-up sheep episode.  That sweet moment of gentle teasing and flirting (after they're already lovers) seems to bring the harmonica one step beyond just being comic relief.

Now, this gets me wondering.  Are there moments of comic relief in the story?  It doesn't really seem much like Proulx to worry about that kind of gesture.  But, comic relief can sometimes be important.  Actually... now that I think about it.  The one moment that always sort of makes me chuckle in the story is in the motel when Jack says he thinks that other people like them probably move to Denver.  I don't really know if that's meant to be funny... but I think it sort of is.  How would that line have sounded in the film?
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: symbols that are different in the story vs the movie
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2007, 03:17:52 am »
Oh, I think there's quite a bit of humor in the story. One instance that really comes to mind is the saying "No instruction manual needed."

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Offline brokebackjack

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Re: symbols that are different in the story vs the movie
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2007, 10:25:16 am »
Incompetent Jack trying to be a cowboy?
"I couldn't stand it no more so i fixed it"

Offline serious crayons

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Re: symbols that are different in the story vs the movie
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2007, 04:13:12 pm »
The harmonica is expanded on in the movie, it's used for comic relief. But, is that all it is? Is there more??

Well, there's the theory that the bent harmonica foreshadows Jack's death. In fact, I've heard it suggested that every time Jack even PLAYS the harmonica, it is about death. Which makes sense, given all the references connecting death and wind, or lack thereof: Jack's "drowning," Jenny's asthma, Uncle Harold's pneumonia.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: symbols that are different in the story vs the movie
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2007, 04:41:49 pm »
So, if the bent harmonica foreshadows Jack's death, then what does the harmonica itself stand for? Jack's life?? His breath? His spirit??

"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline serious crayons

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Re: symbols that are different in the story vs the movie
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2007, 01:10:15 am »
So, if the bent harmonica foreshadows Jack's death, then what does the harmonica itself stand for? Jack's life?? His breath? His spirit??

Must be! And that's why Ennis is so charmed by it. And maybe it's why his harmonica playing would scare the "sheep" off ... his spirit would scare off the social conformists??  ???  Just thinking out loud.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: symbols that are different in the story vs the movie
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2007, 06:39:47 pm »
Incompetent Jack trying to be a cowboy?

For a guy who has Jack as his avatar (and moniker) you are awfully hard on Jack sometimes!!

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Offline brokebackjack

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Re: symbols that are different in the story vs the movie
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2007, 09:42:39 am »
Am I???

I think I just accept him as he is. He's marginally skilled by his own creator's description; can't use an ax, spills water, explodes bean cans, took 12 years to tell LD to FO, smashes his harmonica, takes 20 years to yell at Ennis.

And I love his incompetent arse, just the way he is.
"I couldn't stand it no more so i fixed it"

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: symbols that are different in the story vs the movie
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2008, 10:17:36 pm »
I think "incompetent" is a somewhat-harsh word to describe something that I think is really there in Jack...  It reminds me of what Jake says in one of the interviews in the bonus features on the DVD, where he interprets Jack as "trying" all the time.  I think this is very perceptive... I think Jack is desperately trying to be a model cowboy and really is striving to do his best even in things he's not so good at.  We see Jack make mistakes (like missing the coyote and spilling the beans, etc.), but I don't really think these "flaws" indicated "incompetence" (although Old Man Twist probably saw it that way)... I think these things are expressive of Jack's personality in some way.  Perhaps missing the coyote is a sign that Jack is too high-spirited or impatient to do something like shoot an animal.  Or maybe it means it's not really "in" Jack to kill or hurt something (even an animal) very easily.  OR maybe it's foreshadowing about his death (supposing that he was murdered)... Jack is unsuccessful here at dealing with a predator (perhaps that can be stretched to his inability to escape predators in the murder scenario).  Anyway, I also think we are shown moments when Jack is actually very successful and "competent".  He's the one with more herding experience, so he's the one who leads the flock.  We see him win a rodeo.  Lureen tells us that Jack is a good combine salesman.  He's also good at being a caring father (worrying about Bobby's tutor, etc.). And, we see how good he is at drawing Ennis out and bringing genuine happiness to Ennis, etc.

LOL, I went searching for a pre-existing thread about Proulx's use of symbolism in her writing (still thinking a lot about the "is a cigar just a cigar" topic).  And, I landed on this one.

The first post in this tread brings up the part of the BBM story that's been on my mind all day regarding Proulx and a really blatant and complicated deployment of a symbol in her language.  Right at the very end of BBM she describes how a spoon can also come to be seen as a tire iron.

"...the can of beans with the spoon handle jutting out and balanced on the log was there as well, in a cartoon shape and lurid colors that gave the dreams a flavor of cosmic obscenity.  The spoon handle was the kind that could be used as a tire iron."

I feel like this description is like a key to understanding Proulx's careful use of symbols and is like a key into understanding (perhaps) other and more nuanced symbols in her writing.  I feel like this is equivalent to the moment in the film when Aguirre says "look what the wind blew in", which acts like a key to becoming aware of this and other symbols.

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Sandy

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Re: symbols that are different in the story vs the movie
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2008, 04:45:09 am »
I am so incredibly interested in everyone’s comments on the symbolism in the movie.  I wholeheartedly agree that this is a story with so many layers and I’m enjoying reading everyone’s comments and thinking through those symbols that I missed (to be fair, that would be most of them!).

I just have a brief comment relating to the recent discussion of Jack’s incompetence.  My take on this is that, in every relationship, each partner has their own skills, i.e. one partner may be a more skilled cook whereas the physically stronger partner may take the garbage outside.  Here, we have Ennis shooting the elk (because of Jack’s “dumbass missing!”) and yet Jack brings his usual enthusiasm to make Ennis laugh with his “yee haw!” comment.  They quickly learned to live with one another and we can only assume that this easy comfort would have grown had it had the chance.