Working for Aguirre

[saucycobblers]

I've just been pondering on the scene with the Chilean sheep, where Ennis says to Jack "Oh yeah, f**k Aguirre. And what if we have to work for him again, hunh?" (or words to that effect).

I can't make up my mind if at this point Ennis sees a possibility of an ongoing companionship (if not relationship) at this point? Has he 'forgotten' about Alma? Or does he think it's possible he can get married and still come to work on Brokeback with Jack the next summer. Has he at this point not yet accepted that he and Jack will part at summer's end? Or is he thinking already of them as separate entities, who might work for Aguirre again but not together?

Hmmm... I can't quite decide. What do you think?

[serious crayons]

Good question! I think that's an interesting line, too.

Maybe Ennis is so caught up in their relationship at that point that he isn't thinking that clearly about the future, or is not facing up to it. I especially like how he says "what if we want to work for him" rather than "what if one of us wants to work for him." As if he and Jack would be seeking work as a team.

[saucycobblers]

I especially like how he says "what if we want to work for him" rather than "what if one of us wants to work for him." As if he and Jack would be seeking work as a team.

Yeah, exactly. I think maybe Ennis is in deep denial at this point. Sometimes it's remarkable how one can kid oneself when the truth seems too hard. Especially with a first love, it can seem incomprehensible that it will ever end.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Writing from work without the screenplay in front of me, but are you sure it's "what if we want to work for" Aguirre, or is it "what if we have to work for" Aguirre?

I don't think this line has anything to do with their relationship. It's just Ennis, the poor ranch kid "desperate for any job," not wanting to screw up--or wanting to unscrew the mess of the mingled flocks--in case he needs to go begging to Joe Aguirre for a job again in the future. That's a very working-class attitude and it doesn't have anything to do with being in love with Jack.

[serious crayons]

Writing from work without the screenplay in front of me, but are you sure it's "what if we want to work for" Aguirre, or is it "what if we have to work for" Aguirre?

I don't think this line has anything to do with their relationship. It's just Ennis, the poor ranch kid "desperate for any job," not wanting to screw up--or wanting to unscrew the mess of the mingled flocks--in case he needs to go begging to Joe Aguirre for a job again in the future. That's a very working-class attitude and it doesn't have anything to do with being in love with Jack.

I looked up the line. It's "what if we need to work for him." So you are close, Jeff.

And I think your reading of the line and scene is one perfectly sensible way to interpret it! 

[nakymaton]

That's a very working-class attitude and it doesn't have anything to do with being in love with Jack.

It is. And yet...

Can I play the movie-vs-story game here, too, since I've been playing it all over the place?

I think this is another scene where the events are similar in both places, but where the dynamics are different.

In the story, the scene is the first indication that paradise is about to end:

Even when the numbers were right Ennis knew the sheep were mixed. In a disquieting way everything seemed mixed.

And in the movie... well, Jack's bitching about Aguirre, and Ennis is being responsible, and aren't they just sooooooo cute together when they're like that? And then when they're done sorting out the sheep, there's nothing disquieting or mixed about the emotions on Ennis's face. He teases Jack about the harmonica, he gives that lovely smile of his, and the sun sets over a mountain landscape that is even more beautiful than the two men. (Hey, indulge me in my scenery-swooning for a bit. I've been really restrained about it lately. )

So even though, yeah, it's a pretty typical working-class kind of attitude, there's something about the whole dynamic of the sheep-sorting that seems... comfortable. Or domestic. Or idyllic, despite mixed-up sheep and f***ing Aguirre (or not). It's one of those artless, charmed happiness moments for me, at least.

(Though maybe it's just because I am in love with that landscape.)

[saucycobblers]

I don't think this line has anything to do with their relationship. It's just Ennis, the poor ranch kid "desperate for any job," not wanting to screw up--or wanting to unscrew the mess of the mingled flocks--in case he needs to go begging to Joe Aguirre for a job again in the future.

Hehe. Yeah, I can be prone to reading way too much into the smallest of things, but I can't help feeling there's more to it than that. Just my opinion. Or maybe just my wishful thinking 

Even when the numbers were right Ennis knew the sheep were mixed. In a disquieting way everything seemed mixed.

Thanks for brining that quote from the book up Mel. I'd forgotten about that one. Brings even more possible interpretations to the line. Everything in the film is so imbued with hidden and multiple and symbolic meanings that I can't quite believe it merely belies a working-class attitude...

[opinionista]

Maybe Ennis is so caught up in their relationship at that point that he isn't thinking that clearly about the future, or is not facing up to it. I especially like how he says "what if we want to work for him" rather than "what if one of us wants to work for him." As if he and Jack would be seeking work as a team.

I agree with Katherine here. However, I think he might also be worrying about lack of work. Job opportinities were scarce in Wyoming, especially for ranch hands like Ennis, so I guess he was trying to hold onto that job by leaving a good impression of his performance, in case he needed it in the future.

[serious crayons]

I think it's another one of those situations in which everybody's right. I don't think Ennis is consciously thinking, "Hmm, now that Jack and I have become life partners we'll both need jobs, so ..." Yet it could actually have some deeper meaning.

If you see the characters as autonomous individuals with their own private thoughts, it's possible Ennis is unconsciously choosing words that suggest he's been thinking of them as a couple -- even though, if he spent two seconds thinking directly about it, he would know it ain't gonna be that way.

If you see the characters as fictional figures controlled by an author and/or filmmakers (in this case maybe more of the latter, as Mel points out) it could be a deliberate sly way of suggesting that coupledom very subtly, almost under the radar, which I believe they do a lot. Or even their simply recognizing that if they had Ennis say, "what if one of us needs to work for him" it would prematurely introduce the topic of their inevitable future parting, at a point in the plot when they'd rather focus on their togetherness.

Or it could be none of the above, just a random choice of words that show, as Natali points out, Ennis is concerned about future employment! I rarely think anything in the movie is random, but admittedly this is a very small detail.

[opinionista]

I think it's another one of those situations in which everybody's right. I don't think Ennis is consciously thinking, "Hmm, now that Jack and I have become life partners we'll both need jobs, so ..." Yet it could actually have some deeper meaning.

If you see the characters as autonomous individuals with their own private thoughts, it's possible Ennis is unconsciously choosing words that suggest he's been thinking of them as a couple -- even though, if he spent two seconds thinking directly about it, he would know it ain't gonna be that way.

If you see the characters as fictional figures controlled by an author and/or filmmakers (in this case maybe more of the latter, as Mel points out) it could be a deliberate sly way of suggesting that coupledom very subtly, almost under the radar, which I believe they do a lot. Or even their simply recognizing that if they had Ennis say, "what if one of us needs to work for him" it would prematurely introduce the topic of their inevitable future parting, at a point in the plot when they'd rather focus on their togetherness.

Or it could be none of the above, just a random choice of words that show, as Natali points out, Ennis is concerned about future employment! I rarely think anything in the movie is random, but admittedly this is a very small detail.

Well, this isn't the first time, in the movie at least, Ennis expresses his concern for the job. When he rans into the bear and the mules ran away, scared, dropping all the food, Jack proposes to kill a sheep. And Ennis says "We're supposed to guard them not eat them". I don't think he was being ethical or anything, since he had no problem killing an elk on a preserved forest land. I think he was a bit afraid Aguirre might find out about it.

[ranchgal]

I agree with those who think Ennis is just keeping his options open for employment---because I got the feeling that JA is into more than just running sheep on BBM--and if he has several endeavors working at once, later there could well be another job doing something different.

[mvansand76]

I can't make up my mind if at this point Ennis sees a possibility of an ongoing companionship (if not relationship) at this point?

Yes!!! Yes! I always think he does. It's on his mind, and this is almost an automatic response based on what he would like to happen, but something that will not happen because of his fear!

[nakymaton]

Well, this isn't the first time, in the movie at least, Ennis expresses his concern for the job. When he rans into the bear and the mules ran away, scared, dropping all the food, Jack proposes to kill a sheep. And Ennis says "We're supposed to guard them not eat them". I don't think he was being ethical or anything, since he had no problem killing an elk on a preserved forest land. I think he was a bit afraid Aguirre might find out about it.

Just a note on cultural attitudes, in general: to a ranch kid, there's a huge, huge difference between killing a wild animal and killing a domesticated one. National Forest land isn't really "preserved" in the US -- it's officially run by the Department of Agriculture, and it's supposed to be the "Land of Many Uses." It's land that wasn't successfully homesteaded, for some reason or another. (And I still don't have a clue why the Bureau of Land Management ends up in charge of some land, and the National Forest Service runs others. And there's BLM land right beside my house, too.) Anyway, I think that urban and suburban Americans are beginning to see National Forest land as something that exists for environmental preservation and/or for recreation, but the longterm residents of the rural West (and the current government) see National Forests as land that exists to be used, whether for hunting or grazing or mining or extracting oil and gas.

Anyway, hunting on Forest Service land isn't a big deal. Odds are that Jack and Ennis have both gone hunting for something or another many times before. The only issues with hunting the elk are that 1) they didn't have a hunting license, and 2) they were shooting it out of season. (Elk season would be in the fall, right around now, around when the snow starts falling.) So legally they were poaching (thus the comment about Game & Fish catching them), but in terms of perceived violations of the local ethical code? It's not a big deal, not in the way that shooting a sheep would be.

Edit: And to get back on track, I agree with Katherine here -- that this is a case where the line is both very in character for Ennis, poor and wanting to be able to keep working, and also serves to make the audience forget that the relationship on the mountain is only a temporary thing. And the choice of the word "we" is important there.

I don't know if Ennis is actually thinking that the relationship will go on forever, but I think that Ang Lee and Diana Ossana and Larry McMurtry are deliberately trying to lull us into believing that it will.

[David]

"what if we want to work for him again?"

......y'all are missing the obvious.

Ennis at this point is in love with Jack.    He also is carrying the mental baggage of the homophobia brought on by his father.    Even at this point Ennis sees the only possibilty of getting together with Jack is to be isolated up on Brokeback.   

    You really need to fast forward to the post reunion weekend.   Ennis tells Jack only then that no matter how much they enjoy each others company that it can only be on these get aways.     

   Working again for Aguirre would have put Ennis back on the mountain with Jack, thus Paradise to him again.   That was his concern in my opinion.

[Brown Eyes]

I think that there are at least two levels (of course, knowing BBM, probably more) of meaning at work in the mixed sheep scene and Ennis's choice of words.  The clearest level of meaning is, yes, that he's being practical and responsible as usual and worrying about future job prospects.  But, then as a subtext he uses the word "we" (as others have pointed out.  It's almost like a Freudian-slip (I hate to use that term, but I guess it gets my point across).  Ennis is subtly exposing how much he is thinking of them as a couple at this stage.  In the movie I think this scene is meant to be something like "comic relief" (the implications are more serious in the story I think, based on the way thes scene it written).  Like some have pointed out, we're supposed to see this as a moment of happiness in working together, highlighted by the end of the scene when Jack plays the harmonica.  Ennis's pleasure, evident in his facial expression, at just gazing at Jack drives home the point that these are still the "good days" on Brokeback where they can enjoy each other's company (no matter how annoying the job itself is). 

I guess maybe a third meaning of this scene as it plays out in the movei is related to the elk topic.  Jack demonstrates that he's willing to rebel against an authority figure (in the f*** Aguirre remark) and Ennis again is worried about breaking the rules.  I get the feeling that neither character is thinking coherently about what will really happen at the end of the summer.  I think they're both still too wrapped up in the moment to ponder the implications for the future.  In a way, this seems realistic to me since they're both still teenagers.

[David In Indy]

Can you even imagine working for somebody like Aguirre?

I'd rather stick hot needles in my eyes. 

[Kelda]

never thought of this - interesting interesting.

After 9 months we still have questions to pose - I love BBM for that!

[moremojo]

"what if we want to work for him again?"

......y'all are missing the obvious.

Ennis at this point is in love with Jack.    He also is carrying the mental baggage of the homophobia brought on by his father.    Even at this point Ennis sees the only possibilty of getting together with Jack is to be isolated up on Brokeback.   

    You really need to fast forward to the post reunion weekend.   Ennis tells Jack only then that no matter how much they enjoy each others company that it can only be on these get aways.     

   Working again for Aguirre would have put Ennis back on the mountain with Jack, thus Paradise to him again.   That was his concern in my opinion.

But then what do we make of Ennis rebuffing Jack's coded suggestion that they return to the mountain to work together in the future, right after they have been called back down from Brokeback and are saying goodbye in Signal? Jack is eager to keep this option open, but Ennis strongly implies that he is unlikely to return. Did Ennis see Brokeback as a haven while actually there, but saw it as an impossibility when he has been brought down to earth, so to speak?

I'ts also interesting to remember that in the story it is specifically stated that the two men never return to Brokeback, even in nearly twenty years of furtive high-altitude get-aways. This further emphasizes the mountain's resonance as a lost paradise.

Edit: Meryl's bump gave me the opportunity to correct a small typo.

[Meryl]

bump

[Brown Eyes]

I just re-discovered this really interesting old thread because I noticed a Guest looking at it.  This actually happens to me quite frequently... I'll see a Guest listed as viewing a thread that's buried somewhere and either discover it for the first time or re-discover it... like now.

I have a few further thought I have about this really interesting little statement from Ennis about maybe needing to work for Aguirre again next summer.  I wonder if this is a moment where Jack may get his hopes up (already in this early stage of their relationship).  I mean, Jack brings up the subject of "are you going to do this again next summer" during their parting scene after they come down from the mountain.  To me this implies that he may be remembering Ennis's suggestion during the Chilean sheep scene.  And, then he actually goes so far as to come back the next summer hoping that Ennis would be there.  So, I think even this passing comment by Ennis was taken very seriously by Jack.

And, in another way, I wonder if this statement by Ennis relates somehow to the "people on the pavement" question he poses much later in their relationship... when he's worried that random people might look at himself and Jack and "know".  Maybe in this suggestion of working for Aguirre again and in his later worry about people perceiving that he's gay... Ennis is letting slip bits of information or hints about his desires that he himself isn't fully aware of.  Maybe in wondering about working for Aguirre again, he's betraying a deeper desire to do so.  And, in asking whether people can tell he's gay... he's admitting to the audience and to Jack, that yes he understands he's "queer."  Even if he might still deny both those things if asked directly.