Author Topic: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity  (Read 25834 times)

Offline serious crayons

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Re: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity
« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2010, 01:25:18 pm »
apparently, he has received journalism awards and is a member of a professional journalism society.

Oh, now you're just hair-splitting. The Pulitzer Prize also has categories for fiction, drama, poetry and music. Does that make novelists, playwrights, poets and composers also journalists? And yes, Pitts apparently wrote some straight journalism years ago -- mostly, it seems from his bio, musicians' profiles.

But he's not writing musicians' profiles now. Now he is a commentator. Writing opinion pieces. That's his current job.

Criticizing opinion pieces for failing to be straight journalism, then pointing to the fact that the writer was a journalist at some earlier point in his career as evidence that he should still be doing that, is a lame stretch. You might as well hold up Tina Fey's SNL impersonation as an example of journalism's distortions of Sarah Palin. Oh wait, you did that, too.

For someone who is constantly denigrating the so-called "dinosaur media" you sure come up short on examples of its actual failings.


Offline brokeplex

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Re: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity
« Reply #41 on: August 11, 2010, 01:43:52 pm »
How about naming some of his specific statements that you'd object to?  


For people who'd rather go straight to the source, here's a source for Mr. Pitts' columns:  
http://www.leonardpittsjr.com/recent_columns.html

and

http://www.leonardpittsjr.com/everything-else.html
I did above, but here it is again.

"The word "Republican" does not appear in the book(Gospels?).
Not once.
Yet somehow in the last 30 years, people of
faith were hustled and hoodwinked into
regarding the GOP platform as a lost gospel.
Somehow, low taxes for the wealthy and
deregulation of industry became the very
message of Christ. Somehow, hostility to
science, gays, Muslims and immigrants
became the very meaning of faith. And
somehow Christianity became -- or at least,
came to seem -- a wholly owned subsidiary
of the Republican Party.
Consider that, after the election of 2004, a
church in North Carolina made news for
kicking out nine congregants because they
committed the un-Christian act of ... voting
for Democrat John Kerry.
Who can blame people for saying, "If that's
faith, count me out?" Has atheism
ever had a better salesman than Jerry Falwell, who
blamed the Sept. 11 attacks on the ACLU --
or Pat Robertson, who laid Haiti's earthquake
off on an ancient curse?
a shriveled faith that marginalizes and
demeans?"



Offline brokeplex

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Re: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity
« Reply #42 on: August 11, 2010, 01:51:37 pm »
You might as well hold up Tina Fey's SNL impersonation as an example of journalism's distortions of Sarah Palin. Oh wait, you did that, too.

For someone who is constantly denigrating the so-called "dinosaur media" you sure come up short on examples of its actual failings.


no, no, no, no - I said at the time, and later, that the "Fey"  ;D episode was an example of popular culture in lockstep with the Dinosaur Media.

why, I have written reams about the bias and actual partisanship of the Dinosaurs.

If you choose to think of Pitts as a non journalist commentator - like Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and Ann Coulter, OK fine by me, I will join you in judging him by a different standard.

but, if he is no longer a journalist, then he needs to leave all those Professional Journalist societies he belongs to.

Pitts is not a journalist - so let it be written , so let it be done!  :)

Offline serious crayons

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Re: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity
« Reply #43 on: August 11, 2010, 02:11:29 pm »
I did above, but here it is again.

I think she's asking you to name actual objections, because the passage you have twice quoted contains nothing that all that objectionable.  No lies. No name-calling. Partisan, sure, but as we've established ad nauseum, that's his job. The worst I see here are a couple of bits of writerly exaggeration that aren't factual but aren't really unusual in an op-ed piece. Please don't make me start mining Glenn, Rush and Ann for far, far more egregious examples. There are whole websites devoted to the verbal atrocities of those guys, and I really don't feel like wading into that ... muck ... right now.

To annotate:

Quote
"The word "Republican" does not appear in the book(Gospels?).
Not once.

Fact, AFAIK.

Quote
Yet somehow in the last 30 years, people of
faith were hustled and hoodwinked into
regarding the GOP platform as a lost gospel.

Arguably exaggerated but valid opinion, based on large overlap between religious and political conservatives, and use of one as basis for the other.

Quote
Somehow, low taxes for the wealthy and
deregulation of industry became the very
message of Christ.

Hyperbole.

Quote
Somehow, hostility to
science, gays, Muslims and immigrants
became the very meaning of faith.

The first three, simple fact. Christianity has been used as a basis for arguments against teaching science in schools, gay rights and Islam. The fourth is possibly less defensible unless he's thinking of something I'm not.

Quote
And somehow Christianity became -- or at least,
came to seem -- a wholly owned subsidiary
of the Republican Party.

Hyperbole, but the "came to seem" qualifies it.

Quote
Consider that, after the election of 2004, a
church in North Carolina made news for
kicking out nine congregants because they
committed the un-Christian act of ... voting
for Democrat John Kerry.

Not familiar with this incident, but it sounds verifiable.

Quote
Who can blame people for saying, "If that's
faith, count me out?"

Valid opinion.

Quote
Has atheism
ever had a better salesman than Jerry Falwell, who
blamed the Sept. 11 attacks on the ACLU --
or Pat Robertson, who laid Haiti's earthquake
off on an ancient curse?

Valid opinion based on simple facts.

Quote
a shriveled faith that marginalizes and
demeans?"

Valid opinion.


Offline serious crayons

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Re: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity
« Reply #44 on: August 11, 2010, 02:17:21 pm »
no, no, no, no - I said at the time, and later, that the "Fey"  ;D episode was an example of popular culture in lockstep with the Dinosaur Media.

As I said at the time and later, blaming journalism for an SNL skit is just plain silly.

Quote
If you choose to think of Pitts as a non journalist commentator - like Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and Ann Coulter, OK fine by me, I will join you in judging him by a different standard.

Didn't I say almost this very thing in my first post on this subject?
 
Of course Leonard Pitts is biased, just as Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and Rachel Maddow are biased.


Quote
but, if he is no longer a journalist, then he needs to leave all those Professional Journalist societies he belongs to.

OK, I'll be sure to tell him to do that.  :)

Quote
Pitts is not a journalist - so let it be written , so let it be done!  :)

Whew! Finally we can agree that the sky is blue.


Offline brokeplex

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Re: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity
« Reply #45 on: August 11, 2010, 04:39:50 pm »
- As I said at the time and later, blaming journalism for an SNL skit is just plain silly.

- Whew! Finally we can agree that the sky is blue.
I never "blamed" anyone, I merely noted the interesting convergence of Leftist elitist thinking in popular entertainment and the Dinosaur Media.
Right now the sky outside looks white hot to me here in TX, 103 degrees and a withering sun! I am happy to help you cast Pitts into the pit that the Left throws Rush et al.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity
« Reply #46 on: August 11, 2010, 04:46:45 pm »
Valid opinion based on simple facts.
"valid opinion", well there you go again seeking to redefine the debate on the terms you wish to use!  :laugh:

I don't see Pitt's "opinions" as either valid or invalid - just partisan and name calling and inappropriate in a discussion of Rice's objections to the RC church.

If you wish to see Pitt's opinions as valid or wish to validate them yourself, that is fine with me. But I feel that Pitts used Rice's declarations as an opportunity to make a partisan point, and that is all I have ever said. I can't see that you really disagree with me on this.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity
« Reply #47 on: August 11, 2010, 05:01:33 pm »
"valid opinion", well there you go again seeking to redefine the debate on the terms you wish to use!  :laugh:

I don't see Pitt's "opinions" as either valid or invalid - just partisan and name calling and inappropriate in a discussion of Rice's objections to the RC church.

Not name-calling at all (examples of name-calling: "dinosaur media," "Rachel Madcow"). Nor inappropriate. Partisan, sure.

By "valid" I mean that he has every right to hold and express this opinion. Again, as a columnist, he is paid to do that sort of thing.

Quote
But I feel that Pitts used Rice's declarations as an opportunity to make a partisan point, and that is all I have ever said. I can't see that you really disagree with me on this.

I don't disagree at all that Pitts is using Rice's declarations as an opportunity to make a partisan point. What I disagree with is your assertion that this is inappropriate or lacking in "integrity."


Offline serious crayons

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Re: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2010, 12:29:40 am »
The link offers a video interview, plus a photo of Anne embracing Elton John.

Quote
Anne Rice Explains Why She Left The Church

In interviews, Anne Rice has expanded on what led her to "quit" the Catholic Church after her very public return to religion.

While Rice has not been shy about her views, in her interview with ABC she made her reasons for leaving the church explicit. She also limits her criticisms — although reading between the lines, they have larger application — to the Catholic Church she left, and specifically, her own parish. As she says,

    I think there were several last straws. The pope going to Africa and saying that condoms were not a good idea in the fight against AIDS. I found that outrageous, embarrassing, humiliating, frightening. The bishop of Phoenix, Ariz., Thomas Olmsted, publicly condemning a nun Sister Margaret McBride because she OK'd a life-saving abortion for a dying mother in a Catholic hospital...The fact that my church, which I had supported over the years as — you know, private — how shall I put it — I know. I supported it. Let's say that. I put my money where my mouth was. And that church then spent millions to come in to the state of California and deprive gay citizens of their civil rights to same-sex marriage? That was shocking. That was humiliating. That was the last straw. The Archdiocese of Los Angeles paying $660 million to the victims of clergy abuse? What does that say about organized religion? And finally, the pressure built up, the toxic anger built up, the confusion built up and I thought, 'I have to get out this. I want God to be the center of my life and somehow I'm in bed with the devil.'

In answer to whether she will miss Catholicism, Rice addresses that too:

    I will probably miss the ritual, the liturgy, going to Mass, going to holy communion, but I really couldn't go anymore...I was too angry. I was too confused. That clergy abuse scandal, the defensiveness of Catholics about that scandal, their anger at not wanting to hear about it, not wanting to know what had happened with priests abusing people sexually and then being transferred to parish — from parish to parish, I mean all of that was too much. I was — I was sitting in church in a beautiful environment with beautiful music wanting to pray and I was too angry and too confused to be there. I had to leave. It was coming between me and God to be in that church. And the church should be the place that helps you get close to God.

Even at the time of her re-commitment to Catholicism, Rice was forthright about her support for the gay community, a cause she embraced even prior to the time her son, Christopher, became a gay activist. As is clear from this video, made around the time Christ the Lord was released, at that time she felt - or at any rate hopes - that she had found a like-minded sanctuary in her parish. But however striking the contrast between that serene commitment and today's disillusionment, there's one thing about which we hope Rice's views haven't changed. Asked whom she'd considered for a possible adaptation of her "Christ" series, she replied, "I think Johnny Depp would be absolutely fantastic in the role of Jesus Christ." Amen.



http://jezebel.com/5610445/anne-rice-explains-why-she-left-the-church?skyline=true&s=i#ixzz0wMWmIFXb




Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: AP: Novelist Anne Rice says she's leaving Christianity
« Reply #49 on: August 12, 2010, 11:49:12 am »

Wow, those are some pretty powerful comments.

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie