Author Topic: Annie Proulx's memoir.  (Read 56756 times)

Offline chowhound

  • Brokeback Mountain Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 172
Annie Proulx's memoir.
« on: September 05, 2010, 06:14:17 pm »
I have just found out that early next year Annie Proulx's memoir is to be published. It will be called "Bird Cloud: A Memoir" and deals with Brokeback Mountain amongst other things. It is scheduled to be released on January 4, 2011. Something to look forward to in the New Year.

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2010, 06:28:26 pm »
You bet! Thanks for the information, friend!
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Meryl

  • BetterMost Supporter
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,205
  • There's no reins on this one....
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2010, 08:25:07 pm »
I have just found out that early next year Annie Proulx's memoir is to be published. It will be called "Bird Cloud: A Memoir" and deals with Brokeback Mountain amongst other things. It is scheduled to be released on January 4, 2011. Something to look forward to in the New Year.

Cool!  8)
Ich bin ein Brokie...

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,566
  • Those were the days, Alberta 2007.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2010, 08:38:07 pm »
Oh this should be inneresting.
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Offline Penthesilea

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,745
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2010, 12:37:43 am »
I have just found out that early next year Annie Proulx's memoir is to be published. It will be called "Bird Cloud: A Memoir" and deals with Brokeback Mountain amongst other things. It is scheduled to be released on January 4, 2011. Something to look forward to in the New Year.


What Meryl said : cool 8).

But I can't help but wonder a little bit: this shy woman, who puts so much emphasis on her privacy, living at far out places, rarely giving interviews, suddenly wants to share her life?

Offline Monika

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,587
  • We are all the same. Women, men, gay, straight
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2010, 03:13:27 am »
I have just found out that early next year Annie Proulx's memoir is to be published. It will be called "Bird Cloud: A Memoir" and deals with Brokeback Mountain amongst other things. It is scheduled to be released on January 4, 2011. Something to look forward to in the New Year.
my curiosity is peaked!

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2010, 10:27:11 am »
I have just found out that early next year Annie Proulx's memoir is to be published. It will be called "Bird Cloud: A Memoir" and deals with Brokeback Mountain amongst other things. It is scheduled to be released on January 4, 2011. Something to look forward to in the New Year.

Yeehaw!  :D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2010, 10:30:18 am »

What Meryl said : cool 8).

But I can't help but wonder a little bit: this shy woman, who puts so much emphasis on her privacy, living at far out places, rarely giving interviews, suddenly wants to share her life?

Good point. We'll just have to wait and see. Perhaps it will deal more with her life as a writer than with her personal life. Also, in a memoir she gets to "talk" about what she wants to "talk" about, not what some interviewer wants to ask her about.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2010, 10:40:19 am »
At various talks and appearances Annie Proulx HAS shared a lot about her life. She didn't strike me as an especially private person which unfortunately made it terribly easy for crackpots and extremists to descend on her Centennial, Wy, home and torment her mercilessly. She also made it too easy for people to contact her and there are so many crazies out there. Only after fame became oppressive did she retreat from the public scene.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Berit

  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 843
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2010, 04:35:07 am »
Yes, sertanly something to look forward to!!
Ennis.....always Ennis.....

Marge_Innavera

  • Guest
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2010, 10:00:30 am »
I have just found out that early next year Annie Proulx's memoir is to be published. It will be called "Bird Cloud: A Memoir" and deals with Brokeback Mountain amongst other things. It is scheduled to be released on January 4, 2011. Something to look forward to in the New Year.

Tell you what, it might be a good thing that Brokeback wasn't the first thing she wrote.  I recently read an article about Harper Lee that suggested her not writing another book was due to To Kill a Mockingbird being such an impossible act to follow.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2010, 11:09:23 am »
Tell you what, it might be a good thing that Brokeback wasn't the first thing she wrote.  I recently read an article about Harper Lee that suggested her not writing another book was due to To Kill a Mockingbird being such an impossible act to follow.

Interesting thought. But I wonder what role the films may have had in making both works of literature tough acts to follow? Annie certainly hasn't had any trouble writing more short stories after "Brokeback."
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2010, 03:58:06 pm »
Very good point, Jeff. It seems like her recent work is rather pale next to Close Range and its magnificent final story.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2010, 07:03:09 pm »
Very good point, Jeff. It seems like her recent work is rather pale next to Close Range and its magnificent final story.

Sure enough, but unlike Harper Lee, she has continued to write, and her writings have been published.  :)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Monika

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,587
  • We are all the same. Women, men, gay, straight
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2010, 01:33:35 am »

I think it´s the case for many writers/musicians/actors that they find it a hard act to follow when their first work is hughly successfull. In Annie´s case she was pretty seasoned by the time she debuted so I doubt that would have been the case even if Close Range would have been her first published piece of fiction.
Personally, I found both "Bad Dirt" and "Fine Just the Way It Is" pretty brilliant. Especially in the latter it´s obvious she is still growing and still experimenting with her style. Pretty impressive for someone in their 70`s.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2010, 12:51:10 pm »
I just noticed today, reading the Sept. 13 New Yorker at lunch, that Annie is again participating in a panel as part of The New Yorker Festival. On Oct. 1 she's participating in a panel called "Living History," which includes E.L. Doctorow (I thought he was dead!  :o ) and is moderated by Simon Schama.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Lynne

  • BetterMost Supporter
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,291
  • "The world's always ending." --Ianto Jones
    • Elizabeth Warren for Massachusetts
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2010, 01:51:52 pm »
For some reason, the software won't let me link this to the calendar as an event.  It won't let me enter anything past 2010.  I am not going to become alarmed (yet).

 :)
"Laß sein. Laß sein."

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2010, 06:45:47 am »
But it's on October 1, 2010 is it not?  ???
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Lynne

  • BetterMost Supporter
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,291
  • "The world's always ending." --Ianto Jones
    • Elizabeth Warren for Massachusetts
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2010, 07:17:57 am »
Chowhound'S original post says

Quote
It is scheduled to be released on January 4, 2011.

Did the date change?  That is a Tuesday, and new book releases are almost always Tuesdays.
"Laß sein. Laß sein."

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2010, 08:48:07 am »
For some reason, the software won't let me link this to the calendar as an event.  It won't let me enter anything past 2010.  I am not going to become alarmed (yet).

 :)

But it's on October 1, 2010 is it not?  ???

Chowhound'S original post says

Did the date change?  That is a Tuesday, and new book releases are almost always Tuesdays.

Friends, you're talking about two different things here. I tossed into this thread, because it's current, that Annie will be participating in a panel as part of The New Yorker Festival. This will take place on Oct. 1 of this year. Apparently Lynne is trying to link the release date for Annie's memoirs. I don't know anything about that.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 02:42:50 pm by Jeff Wrangler »
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Lynne

  • BetterMost Supporter
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,291
  • "The world's always ending." --Ianto Jones
    • Elizabeth Warren for Massachusetts
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2010, 09:14:49 am »
I see, crossed wires. I'd like to put both events on the calendar, but the book release was what I was aiming for.
"Laß sein. Laß sein."

Offline Monika

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,587
  • We are all the same. Women, men, gay, straight
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2010, 12:34:12 pm »
I gotta say this is a must-buy

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,566
  • Those were the days, Alberta 2007.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2011, 12:00:20 am »
Sent to me by Oregondoggie, not sure where it was published:

January 4, 2011
A Novelist Wills Her Dream Home Into Being
By DWIGHT GARNER

BIRD CLOUD

By Annie Proulx

Illustrated. 234 pages. Scribner. $26.

There are two ways to describe Annie Proulx’s memoir, “Bird Cloud,” an account of her Sisyphean struggle to build her dream house on a remote and striking 640-acre stretch of land in Wyoming.

The angel on my right shoulder suggests something like this: “Bird Cloud” is a mildly animated and knotty book about displacement and loss, about a late-life longing to carve out a place that’s truly one’s own. Ms. Proulx, who is in her mid-70s, finds that longing frustrated at almost every turn. Admirers of her fiction will find much of this memoir to be not uninteresting.

The devil on my left shoulder whispers this: “Bird Cloud” is an especially off-putting book about a wealthy and imperious writer who annoys the local residents (she runs off their cows), overwrites about nature and believes people will sympathize with her about the bummers involved in getting her Japanese soaking tub, tatami-mat exercise area, Mexican talavera sink and Brazilian floor tiles installed just so. “Bird Cloud” is shelter porn with a side of highbrow salsa. When Ms. Proulx’s house turns out to be a bit of a folly, its roads impassable in winter, you feel that a bell somewhere has been struck, and justice served.

My sympathies are with the devil.

Ms. Proulx (pronounced prew) is best known for her second novel, “The Shipping News” (1993), which won a Pulitzer Prize and a National Book Award (it was turned into a bad movie by Lasse Hallstrom), as well as for her 1997 short story “Brokeback Mountain,” about forbidden cowboy love (it was turned into a good movie by Ang Lee). I’m partial to her early work, including the story collection “Heart Songs and Other Stories” (1988) and the novel “Postcards” (1992), written before her signature style had begun to calcify and cloy.

What is that signature style? Reading Ms. Proulx’s prose is like bouncing along rutted country roads in a pickup truck with no shock absorbers. Her books are packed with arcane flora and fauna and eccentrically named towns and characters. Many writers employ unusual verbs and adjectives; Ms. Proulx likes weird nouns. Her cluttered style is, in a kind of reverse way, as jewel-encrusted as Gustav Klimt’s.

In “Bird Cloud” these qualities turn against her. She visually absorbs Wyoming’s long vistas and spits out data like a seed catalog. It’s agreeable, on some level, that someone notices, and speaks up for, stranger and lesser-known plants (greasewood, rabbitbrush, biscuit-root, sego lily root) and animals (snowshoe hare, 13-striped chipmunks, pygmy rabbits). But Ms. Proulx’s piles of names feel like lists, not descriptions; they push you out rather than pull you in.

Rarely content with referring to the builders and other people who walk though this book by their given names alone, she concocts nicknames for them: Uphill Bob, Mr. Busybody, the James Gang, Mr. Floorfix, Catfish, Mr. Solar. By the end she’s got an entire Monkey Wrench Gang, primed for high jinks that never arrive. These people don’t warm on the page or become recognizably human.

Few writers can talk about the perks of their success without sounding either defensive or deplorable. Ms. Proulx is not among those few. “Bird Cloud” has too many precious lines like, “I wanted interesting pieces of light,” and: “Books are very important to me. I wish I could think of them as some publishers do — as ‘product’ — but I can’t.”

Some of Ms. Proulx’s tangled sentences made me put her book down and pace around for a while, vigorously rubbing my forehead. Here is one, and its little coda. Together they distill and parody this memoir’s tone and content: “I like a colorful, handily cluttered kitchen and Bird Cloud’s cabinets and drawers in red, violet, aquamarine, burnt orange, cobalt, lime, brick, John Deere green and skipjack blue inspires stir-fries, osso buco, grilled prawns, Argentinean salads of butterhead lettuce, tomato, sweet onion, roast lamb with Greek cucumber and dill sauce, frittatas, rhubarb sauce with glasses of dry Riesling for the cook. You bet.”

I’m sure I’ve read worse sentences from a National Book Award-winning writer, but I can’t recall them offhand.

The angel on my right shoulder tells me I’m being hard on “Bird Cloud.” But I haven’t yet gotten into this book’s dry, meandering potted histories of this subject or that. Or the way it flatlines, in its final chapters, into long descriptions of bird watching.

Why is it not a surprise when Ms. Proulx tells us she is a nobler observer of birds than the rest of us? “I am more interested in birds of particular places,” she says, “how they behave over longer periods of time and how they use their chosen habitats — a more holistic view than a list of ‘I-saw-them.’ ”

I did like things about “Bird Cloud.” Ms. Proulx writes exceedingly well about her own family’s dark history; she finds that words and phrases like “imbecile,” “mulatto,” “habitual intemperance” and “her mark” often appear in old documents. She is just as good on the experience of people of “Franco American” background in this country, quoting Jack Kerouac about “that horrible homelessness of all French Canadians abroad in America.”

I like her abiding fondness — I share it — for an under-sung band out of Austin, Tex., called the Gourds. Ms. Proulx nails the lead singer Kevin Russell’s voice — it’s an original American instrument, in the moonshine-soaked vein of Levon Helms’s — as “like a graft of a carny hustler onto a Missouri River flatboat man, roaring about putting down his brown cow.” (Here’s one thing to do today: download the Gourds’ songs “Last Letter” and “Dying of the Pines.”)

I admired the quickening sense, which hovers over this book, that Ms. Proulx has not just a financial budget but a time budget as well. “I was not,” she writes, “getting any younger.”

The stalwart Ms. Proulx is also, to her credit, no fan of happy endings. About her land and her sprawling new house, she writes: “Years later I still wonder if I should have cut my losses.”
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2011, 09:56:39 am »
Quote
“Books are very important to me. I wish I could think of them as some publishers do — as ‘product’ — but I can’t.”

Having worked in publishing, I sympathize with Annie completely here.

Quote
“Years later I still wonder if I should have cut my losses.”

I guess she finally did. Hasn't she left Wyoming for Arizona? Or is it New Mexico?

While I admit I never gave it a thought until I read the above review, I can well imagine that working as a contractor for Annie Proulx would be a thankless, even "Sisyphean," task. I can well imagine that someone as particular about her writing as Annie is would drive a contractor crazy.


"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Online southendmd

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,061
  • well, I won't
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2011, 10:01:08 am »
"...shelter porn with a side of highbrow salsa"--ouch!

I can't wait to read it.  Thanks for the reminder, Tru.  And thanks to Larry for the, um, interesting review.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2011, 10:09:10 am »
I like this characterization of Annie's style:

Quote
Reading Ms. Proulx’s prose is like bouncing along rutted country roads in a pickup truck with no shock absorbers.

However, I like the style. The reviewer clearly does not:

Quote
I’m partial to her early work, including the story collection “Heart Songs and Other Stories” (1988) and the novel “Postcards” (1992), written before her signature style had begun to calcify and cloy.

"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2011, 10:48:06 am »
I guess she finally did. Hasn't she left Wyoming for Arizona? Or is it New Mexico?


My understanding is that she lives in New Mexico during the winter. She still owns the house in Wyoming and may come back to it in the summer.

Great review! Please thank Larry for us and tell him we miss him. I am even more interested in reading the book now that I know that it's not just about the real estate. I'm more interested in reading Annie's "lists" of wildflowers and animals, as well as her characterizations about people, than I am in hearing about contractor and construction snafus.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Marge_Innavera

  • Guest
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2011, 11:59:41 am »
While I admit I never gave it a thought until I read the above review, I can well imagine that working as a contractor for Annie Proulx would be a thankless, even "Sisyphean," task. I can well imagine that someone as particular about her writing as Annie is would drive a contractor crazy.

Don't know about contractors, but....

As a person whose work history includes waitressing, I can about guess what it would be like to wait on a person who's regularly described as "cantankerous."  Or even "feisty."   ;)

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2011, 01:20:07 pm »
Don't know about contractors, but....

As a person whose work history includes waitressing, I can about guess what it would be like to wait on a person who's regularly described as "cantankerous."  Or even "feisty."   ;)

Behind her back, her contractors probably said "pain in the ass."  ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Meryl

  • BetterMost Supporter
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,205
  • There's no reins on this one....
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2011, 08:34:39 pm »
Admirers of her fiction will find much of this memoir to be not uninteresting.

I'm sure of that.

Quote
Few writers can talk about the perks of their success without sounding either defensive or deplorable. Ms. Proulx is not among those few. “Bird Cloud” has too many precious lines like, “I wanted interesting pieces of light,” and: “Books are very important to me. I wish I could think of them as some publishers do — as ‘product’ — but I can’t.”

I'm sure these lines are precious--to Annie--rather than in the way the reviewer notes.

Quote
The angel on my right shoulder tells me I’m being hard on “Bird Cloud.”

I think my Dad the angel was right.   ;)
Ich bin ein Brokie...

Offline Wayne

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,207
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2011, 07:40:58 pm »
Her cluttered style is, in a kind of reverse way, as jewel-encrusted as Gustav Klimt’s.
:o :)



We saw this Gustav Klimt piece in person at the German-Type Art Museum in NYC in September. That was right before we saw the German-Type American People's parade as we walked out onto Fifth Avenue.

As always Truman, you were there with us in spirit  :)   (btw be sure to take my spirit along next trip I can't make)

Miz Lynne has the Japanese translation of this painting as her userpic on fb now.

Great article. It sounds like Annie Proulx writing about her now jewel-encluttered self  :laugh:
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline Lynne

  • BetterMost Supporter
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,291
  • "The world's always ending." --Ianto Jones
    • Elizabeth Warren for Massachusetts
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2011, 09:01:53 pm »
:o :)



We saw this Gustav Klimt piece in person at the German-Type Art Museum in NYC in September. That was right before we saw the German-Type American People's parade as we walked out onto Fifth Avenue.

As always Truman, you were there with us in spirit  :)   (btw be sure to take my spirit along next trip I can't make)

Miz Lynne has the Japanese translation of this painting as her userpic on fb now.

Great article. It sounds like Annie Proulx writing about her now jewel-encluttered self  :laugh:

I do...I was going for the Goddess of Prosperity for the new year...I wonder if Annie Proulx has her share of that, with the understanding that I doubt it means the same thing to me as to her as to the next person.

 ???
"Laß sein. Laß sein."

Offline ifyoucantfixit

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,049
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2011, 01:48:07 am »


    I will probably be ran out of this forum on a rail, and tarred and feathered.  But
as for me, I think she is just too self important anymore.  When she said that she
wished that the airplane she saw flying around her place, would crash..I gave up
all the respect for her. Other people are more important than she obviously thinks they are.  She seems to think that she is the only person of value in this country.  ....go ahead  do your worst.  I still think I can take it.  That is my opinion.;  Privacy is wonderful, but she is obviously a grizzled cranky old superior acting and feeling wench.



     Beautiful mind

Offline Monika

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,587
  • We are all the same. Women, men, gay, straight
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2011, 03:05:45 am »

    I will probably be ran out of this forum on a rail, and tarred and feathered.  But
as for me, I think she is just too self important anymore.  When she said that she
wished that the airplane she saw flying around her place, would crash..I gave up
all the respect for her. Other people are more important than she obviously thinks they are.  She seems to think that she is the only person of value in this country.  ....go ahead  do your worst.  I still think I can take it.  That is my opinion.;  Privacy is wonderful, but she is obviously a grizzled cranky old superior acting and feeling wench.
Don´t hold back now ;)
A for the plane, I don´t think she actually WANTS the plane to crash.  ;)
She is without a doubt a tough old bird, though, living by herself in Wyoming. I wonder if it is the solitude, the land itself or the people, that attracts her to the area.


I haven´t gotten my copy yet, but am looking forward to reading it, especially the parts about Wyoming´s fauna and history.

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,566
  • Those were the days, Alberta 2007.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2011, 09:28:03 am »
What I would love to read, and probably won't in her life time, is a biography about her. From what I understand she has not had an easy time of it, well who does I know.....

I remember the time I went to see her speak and someones cell phone rang and she stopped midsentance and said "Do you want to get that?"
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2011, 11:21:45 am »
What I would love to read, and probably won't in her life time, is a biography about her. From what I understand she has not had an easy time of it, well who does I know.....

IIRC, she mentions in one of her essays that she's been married more than once. For someone as cranky as she is, now there's a triumph of hope over experience.  8)

Quote
I remember the time I went to see her speak and someones cell phone rang and she stopped midsentance and said "Do you want to get that?"

 :laugh:
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2011, 02:31:38 pm »
Yes, she's been married three times and has three sons and a daughter. She's lived closely with quite a few men and must have picked up some insight over the years!

I think at least one of her sons is living in the Wyoming house. I don't think of her as much of a hermit.

I've put a hold on the memoir in the library and hope to be reading it soon.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2011, 02:28:27 pm »
At lunch today, I noticed that Bird Cloud was featured in the "Briefly Noted" section of capsule book reviews in the Feb. 7 issue of The New Yorker. Whoever wrote the capsule review concludes by speculating that at certain times, AP's Wyoming neighbors must be as contemptuous of her as she so clearly is of them. That led me to wonder--seriously--why on earth would you write a memoir that makes you look like such a bad-tempered, mean-spirited, snobbish old crank?  ??? I mean, seriously, why would anyone do that?  ???

I seriously doubt that I will ever get around to reading Bird Cloud, but I suppose if I ever do, I will get a good laugh--at AP's expense--at such experiences as her driving into a five-foot snowdrift and having to be shoveled out (an incident mentioned in the capsule review). It sounds to me like there is comedy here of the Green Acres/city slicker in the country variety.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline louisev

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,107
  • "My guns and amo!! Over my cold dead hands!!"
    • Fiction by Louise Van Hine
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2011, 08:09:23 pm »
At lunch today, I noticed that Bird Cloud was featured in the "Briefly Noted" section of capsule book reviews in the Feb. 7 issue of The New Yorker. Whoever wrote the capsule review concludes by speculating that at certain times, AP's Wyoming neighbors must be as contemptuous of her as she so clearly is of them. That led me to wonder--seriously--why on earth would you write a memoir that makes you look like such a bad-tempered, mean-spirited, snobbish old crank?  ??? I mean, seriously, why would anyone do that?  ???


Lack of personal insight?  

I remember having a similar species of reaction when I was hired to do extensive edits on a memoir of a survivor of Sobibor death camp, who was barely out of his youth at the time he was sent there.  Sobibor, for those who don't know, is the camp where the Nazis disastrously mixed Jewish civilian prisoners with Soviet prisoners of war, and the Soviet officers (there were a handful of them) organized a spectacular escape over the barbed wire under towers with snipers posted.  This man, Toivi Blatt, escaped with the Soviets and 70 other inmates, and hid in the countryside, some of them eventually making the way to permanent freedom.  Most were shot in the back going over the barbed wire.

Now part of the reason why it was so dangerous for Jews on the run in Poland is because there WAS a significant discrepancy, socioeconomically, between shtetl Jewish families who were moneylenders and shopkeepers (lacking access to most other occupations) and their far poorer Catholic countrymen, so there was a certain initial enthusiasm in the local Catholic population in turning over Jews who they felt were unfairly benefitting from the bad economy.  It was a horrific cliche that Jews always had gold coins buried somewhere to bribe their way out of prosecution or other minor lawbreaking; and of course it defied the reality that there were poor Jews as well as rich Jews in Poland.

However, in this manuscript, the protagonist portrayed himself as having gold coins sewn into his clothes and bribing himself out of tight spots, paying gold for food, and hiring rides from people he thought he could trust, and exchanging precious gems (once again sewn into his clothes) for a night's hiding place.  He was describing the rich Jewish stereotype to a nicety.

I was completely baffled, and I didn't know how to tell him his own narrative was reinforcing the Polish Catholic stereotypes of Jews and he might want to play that down.  And of course, he didn't see any issue there.  Everybody travels with precious gems and gold sewn into their clothes, don't they?

“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Marge_Innavera

  • Guest
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2011, 09:10:45 pm »
At lunch today, I noticed that Bird Cloud was featured in the "Briefly Noted" section of capsule book reviews in the Feb. 7 issue of The New Yorker. Whoever wrote the capsule review concludes by speculating that at certain times, AP's Wyoming neighbors must be as contemptuous of her as she so clearly is of them. That led me to wonder--seriously--why on earth would you write a memoir that makes you look like such a bad-tempered, mean-spirited, snobbish old crank?  ??? I mean, seriously, why would anyone do that?  ???

Maybe she really is a bad-tempered, mean-spirited, snobbish old crank.  Being brilliant at what you do and being a wonderful person aren't necessarily the same thing.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2011, 10:46:11 pm »
Maybe she really is a bad-tempered, mean-spirited, snobbish old crank.  Being brilliant at what you do and being a wonderful person aren't necessarily the same thing.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Why would I shoot the messenger? Likely she is exactly that. But that still begs the question, Why write a memoir to show yourself to the world in that way?  ???
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Monika

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,587
  • We are all the same. Women, men, gay, straight
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2011, 04:38:08 am »
Why would I shoot the messenger? Likely she is exactly that. But that still begs the question, Why write a memoir to show yourself to the world in that way?  ???
I haven´t read it, so I don´t know that what extent this is the case, but Annie Proulx to me is someone who never make things more glamorous than they are - this goes for both her writing and her personal life. She says what she really thinks and writes what she really thinks. Might not always be pretty, but I admire her for it.

Marge_Innavera

  • Guest
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2011, 11:56:40 am »
Why would I shoot the messenger? Likely she is exactly that. But that still begs the question, Why write a memoir to show yourself to the world in that way?  ???

Well, that's where the "cantankerous" and "outspoken" schtick comes in.   ::)  

As far as shooting the messenger goes, anyone criticizing AP is justified in expecting a hostile reception. Doesn't happen consistently but the "OMG how can you say that!" reaction isn't unknown.  I assume that's why an earlier poster in this thread expected brickbats.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 02:52:41 pm by Marge_Innavera »

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2011, 05:29:46 pm »
I can think of several reasons why AP might want to portray herself in a poor light in her new book Bird Cloud. For one, it makes for a better book. Think of Frances Mayes' book about the house she renovated in Tuscany: Under the Tuscan Sun. The eccentricities, culture clashes and ineptness made for a better book. Another reason is that it is awkward writing one's memoirs and AP might feel more comfortable with a self-deprecating approach. She is often like that in her interviews referring to herself as "elderly", "set in her ways", and a person who has botched the marriage and/or mothering roles. But the reason I think is most likely is that AP thinks of herself somewhat as a character in her story, and we know her characters typically have more than their share of flaws!!

BTW, I was travelling in Wyoming one winter with Offline Chuck, EDelMar, and Rodney and whomever was driving (can't remember  ::)) got distracted by the view and drove straight into a snowbank! It took us about an hour to get unstuck, and if OCD hadn't been with us, we'd probably be stuck still!!

"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline louisev

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,107
  • "My guns and amo!! Over my cold dead hands!!"
    • Fiction by Louise Van Hine
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2011, 06:23:52 pm »
Well, that's where the "cantankerous" and "outspoken" schtick comes in.   ::)  

As far as shooting the messenger goes, anyone criticizing AP is justified in expecting a hostile reception. Doesn't happen consistently but the "OMG how can you say that!" reaction isn't unknown.  I assume that's why an earlier poster in this thread expected brickbats.

i'm with you there, Marcia... god forbid anyone would criticize the helpless old lady with the multi-billion dollar company's intellectual property lawyers chasing down fanfic writers who only wished to pay tribute to 'Brokeback' - those orders came from 'Bird Cloud' herself.  But she's a saint nonetheless, huh!
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Marge_Innavera

  • Guest
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2011, 09:19:30 pm »
I can think of several reasons why AP might want to portray herself in a poor light in her new book Bird Cloud. For one, it makes for a better book. Think of Frances Mayes' book about the house she renovated in Tuscany: Under the Tuscan Sun. The eccentricities, culture clashes and ineptness made for a better book. Another reason is that it is awkward writing one's memoirs and AP might feel more comfortable with a self-deprecating approach. She is often like that in her interviews referring to herself as "elderly", "set in her ways", and a person who has botched the marriage and/or mothering roles. But the reason I think is most likely is that AP thinks of herself somewhat as a character in her story, and we know her characters typically have more than their share of flaws!!

You know, that brought up to the front of my mind something I hadn't thought of in years.

This was a long time ago, and it was a TV talk show interview with Kirk Douglas. Somehow the subject of John Wayne came up, and Douglas didn't say anything hostile about him, but he said essentially that JW saw pretty much whatever he wanted to see; and concluded with:

"He really believed that he was 'John Wayne.' "

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2011, 12:28:00 pm »
I can think of several reasons why AP might want to portray herself in a poor light in her new book Bird Cloud. For one, it makes for a better book. Think of Frances Mayes' book about the house she renovated in Tuscany: Under the Tuscan Sun. The eccentricities, culture clashes and ineptness made for a better book. Another reason is that it is awkward writing one's memoirs and AP might feel more comfortable with a self-deprecating approach. She is often like that in her interviews referring to herself as "elderly", "set in her ways", and a person who has botched the marriage and/or mothering roles. But the reason I think is most likely is that AP thinks of herself somewhat as a character in her story, and we know her characters typically have more than their share of flaws!!

Sure enough, but portraying your neighbors as ignorant hicks and rubes is not "self-deprecating." It just makes you look like a mean-spirited, horrible person.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2011, 12:32:11 pm »
As far as shooting the messenger goes, anyone criticizing AP is justified in expecting a hostile reception. Doesn't happen consistently but the "OMG how can you say that!" reaction isn't unknown.  I assume that's why an earlier poster in this thread expected brickbats.

Sure enough, but since I'm the one who called AP a bad-tempered, mean-spirited, snobbish old crank, I'm not likely to shoot you for agreeing with me!  ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Online southendmd

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,061
  • well, I won't
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2011, 10:21:13 am »
I finished BirdCloud and enjoyed it.

To me, it didn't resemble the review posted above.  Hardly "shelter porn", the description of building the house is a recurring motif, set among fascinating and deep accounts of both her ancestors and the land itself.  I kept thinking of Michener:  extensive geology, geneology, surveys of flora and fauna--but with footnotes!

In fact, she reveals little of herself in any direct manner.  She doesn't really discuss her writing or her living family.  Rather we see her through her interactions in the building of the house, and in her attitudes toward the land, and her understanding of time slipping away.  The book seems more about the land than about her.  She has said that place and climate determine one's destiny.  The land, like her long and curious lineage, is both eternal and ephemeral, brutal and brilliant. 

One example is a tall, narrow window she built to frame the view of the tree favored by a pair of bald eagles.  In a passage right out of one of her stories, the tree is soon felled by weather, and the eagle window is now useless, an excellent metaphor for her house endeavor, and the futility of trying to wrangle nature.

She does seem reluctantly reliant on her crew for survival, and they are merely two-dimensional.  That she loves birds more than people is not surprising in one so reclusive. 

Of course it's easy to take phrases or sentences out of context and pronounce them to be precious.  However, in context, they sounded perfectly natural.  In fact, I found this nonfiction to be more readable than much of her fiction prose. 

Offline Meryl

  • BetterMost Supporter
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,205
  • There's no reins on this one....
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2011, 01:28:19 pm »
Thanks for an excellent review, Paul.  You're a real thinker there.   Might have a look at Bird Cloud:)
Ich bin ein Brokie...

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #50 on: February 27, 2011, 03:23:22 pm »
Thanks for an excellent review, Paul.  You're a real thinker there.   Might have a look at Bird Cloud:)

Ditto.

Jeepers, it almost seems like you read an entirely different book than the original reviewer!  ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Marge_Innavera

  • Guest
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #51 on: February 27, 2011, 04:43:26 pm »
Ditto.

Jeepers, it almost seems like you read an entirely different book than the original reviewer!  ;D

Well, maybe the original reviewer was an "unreal thinker."    ;)

Online southendmd

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,061
  • well, I won't
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #52 on: February 27, 2011, 06:10:37 pm »
Thanks, guys.  As with films, I like to read reviews after reading the book.  

A quick google search showed many reviews; the above one that Truman posted (via Larry) is from the New York Times, and is by far the most negative one.  The others are more mixed or positive, understandably expressing confusion over the lack of narrative cohesion, but generally appreciating Annie's language.  

*spoiler (of sorts) below*






















The "real" epilogue:  Bird Cloud Ranch is now for sale and can be yours for a mere $3.7M!

Online southendmd

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,061
  • well, I won't
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #53 on: February 27, 2011, 06:17:26 pm »

The book cover shows a gorgeous photo of the land, and inside she has a few charming line drawings of the property, and of birds, but nowhere in sight was an image of the house.  Until now!  I found these below, not exactly what I had imagined the house to look like, but close:







Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #54 on: February 27, 2011, 06:21:14 pm »
I can see where it'd be a problem if that road wasn't plowed in winter.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Meryl

  • BetterMost Supporter
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,205
  • There's no reins on this one....
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #55 on: February 27, 2011, 06:23:19 pm »
I can see where it'd be a problem if that road wasn't plowed in winter.

Or if the river decided to flood.  :P

Looks really isolated.  I think I'd be afraid to live so far out from other neighbors.
Ich bin ein Brokie...

Offline louisev

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,107
  • "My guns and amo!! Over my cold dead hands!!"
    • Fiction by Louise Van Hine
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #56 on: February 27, 2011, 06:30:35 pm »
Well, it isn't what I thought her house would look like either, and I have to say, it looks like an industrial sheet metal plant.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Online southendmd

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,061
  • well, I won't
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #57 on: February 27, 2011, 07:25:35 pm »
I'm not sure if her interview with the Paris Review has been posted, but there's an interesting bit about this book, and her next book:

I’m all done with writing Wyoming stories at this point. I don’t know what I’ll write about next. I’ve already got two other books under contract that I’ve got to finish. One is a history of putting this property together—part autobiography and part survey of the land that Bird Cloud is on. And there’s a novel about logging and lumbering from Prince Edward Island to New Zealand that I’ve got to get to. I’ve been collecting materials for years, trying to figure out where I want to hit. It started about twenty-five years ago when I was driving through Michigan’s Upper Peninsula and I came up to a sign that said on this site stood the greatest pine forest the world has ever known and now there’s absolutely nothing left of it. So that got me thinking. The story will span from the northeast corner of North America down to the Pacific. But Wyoming won’t be included in the book. Even if I keep living here I won’t want to write about Wyoming. I want to write about something else. I have a short attention span.



http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/5901/the-art-of-fiction-no-199-annie-proulx

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #58 on: February 27, 2011, 11:22:46 pm »
Well, it isn't what I thought her house would look like either, and I have to say, it looks like an industrial sheet metal plant.

I don't think very much of it, either.

When I move out West I want a log cabin.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline ifyoucantfixit

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,049
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #59 on: February 28, 2011, 04:45:10 am »


  I for one knowing that I had plenty of money, and time.  Would never come up with
that monstrosity.  It is the most boring, and uninteresting looking building to live in
I think I have ever seen.  It must be a reflection of the person herself.  Self obsorbed,
self involved and cold of heart. 
  Sorry for those of you that adore her.  I just happen to not be one of those.



     Beautiful mind

Offline Monika

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,587
  • We are all the same. Women, men, gay, straight
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #60 on: February 28, 2011, 05:23:15 am »

  I for one knowing that I had plenty of money, and time.  Would never come up with
that monstrosity.  It is the most boring, and uninteresting looking building to live in
I think I have ever seen.  It must be a reflection of the person herself.  Self obsorbed,
self involved and cold of heart. 

You got all that from looking at the exterior of her house?

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,566
  • Those were the days, Alberta 2007.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #61 on: February 28, 2011, 01:08:22 pm »
Well I got done reading the book yesterday and can say it was an over all pleasant experience, but somewhat of a chore.

I can certainly relate to what Janice says, the only way this story ever made it into the world is because of Proulx's celebrity. In a strange way this very private person opens up and talks a lot about her family and about herself and about some of the places she has lived and then we are treated to her conspicious consumption. And for the record, the plat she drew for the book is orented toward the east. You can find the place easy enough on Google Earth on the North Platt, NW  of Saratoga, Wyoming.

As a Realtor, one of the things that gets under my skin is the pickiness of people who have to have things "just so", it grates upon my status of being the first generation of my family to have indoor plumbing. I want to shake these people and tell them that just a few miles from here there are people living in cardboard boxes who would be grateful to live in that ugly took shed. The more I read my heart went out to the James Gang, they sound like the are on permanent retainer to come and rescue her when she is trapped.

And then she diverges into great Annie Dillard-esque prose about the natives who have lived there, the bird chapter at the end I got caught up in to my surprise. She truly enjoys the place she created, where none was before and for apparently a good reason. 

I found myself looking for things I recognized. She never once mentioned Brokeback, I doubt she does much. She did mention That Old Act In The Hole and Accordion Crimes and maybe The Shipping News. What I did find is the time line, laid out against the expierence we have had that she created. When I saw her at Davidson College in 2006, she was having the insulation installed. When we had just returned from Alberta in 2007, the day that Mouk reported the first snowfall in August, she and a friend were watching the mice pop out of the sprinkler system.

And as with all things Proulx, the more you scratch, the more you will find. Like these photos from the website of the architect, Harry Teague:



More photos are available here:

http://www.harryteaguearchitects.com/birdcloud.htm#

I was looking at those when I was part of the way through and was like "There is the deck and the chinking and the table from Newfoundland!"

So in a way, Bird Cloud answers some very defiantly sexless hunger to get a peek inside of the mind and world of the woman who created Jack and Ennis. She is as complex as any of the rest of us, just loaded up with money and ready to leave her footprint on as much of the world as possible.

People with bad teeth can still dance.
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Offline louisev

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,107
  • "My guns and amo!! Over my cold dead hands!!"
    • Fiction by Louise Van Hine
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #62 on: February 28, 2011, 03:11:57 pm »
so Truman, what's your aesthetic opinion of the Bird Cloud Industrial Sheet Metal Fabrication plant?
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline Shakesthecoffecan

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,566
  • Those were the days, Alberta 2007.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #63 on: February 28, 2011, 03:16:52 pm »
so Truman, what's your aesthetic opinion of the Bird Cloud Industrial Sheet Metal Fabrication plant?

I think it is aesthetically pleasing in the short run but hard to maintain in the long run.
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #64 on: February 28, 2011, 03:38:01 pm »
I think it is aesthetically pleasing in the short run but hard to maintain in the long run.

I think it looks like a hardware store.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline louisev

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,107
  • "My guns and amo!! Over my cold dead hands!!"
    • Fiction by Louise Van Hine
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #65 on: February 28, 2011, 03:45:55 pm »
I think it looks like a hardware store.

Considering that every other ranch on sale in Wyoming is actually picturesque, the only thing Bird Cloud Ranch has got going for it is the view, I wonder if it has any chance of selling?
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Online southendmd

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,061
  • well, I won't
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #66 on: February 28, 2011, 04:07:08 pm »
I wonder if the work of her architect, Harry Teague, is in demand.  The description of the roofline echoing the curve of the cliff sounded cool.  Not sure about the execution of that. 

It's quite possible that the house looks better from the inside looking out. 

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #67 on: February 28, 2011, 04:20:10 pm »
It's quite possible that the house looks better from the inside looking out. 

That thought crossed my mind, too. I was thinking of the window that was placed specifically to view a tree that then died.

But I still think it looks like a hardware store.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,566
  • Those were the days, Alberta 2007.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #68 on: February 28, 2011, 04:55:50 pm »
Considering that every other ranch on sale in Wyoming is actually picturesque, the only thing Bird Cloud Ranch has got going for it is the view, I wonder if it has any chance of selling?

Well that is a good question, considering she herself has publicly stated she cannot got out of the property during the winter, it is like shooting oneself in the foot.
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Online southendmd

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,061
  • well, I won't
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #69 on: February 28, 2011, 04:58:11 pm »
Well that is a good question, considering she herself has publicly stated she cannot got out of the property during the winter, it is like shooting oneself in the foot.

Either someone out there might be looking for a little $3.7M Wyoming summer cottage, or she expects no one will read her book!

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,566
  • Those were the days, Alberta 2007.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #70 on: March 01, 2011, 12:03:24 pm »
Last night I decided Annie Proulx wrote Bird Cloud because she wants people to take care of their teeth.
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #71 on: March 01, 2011, 12:07:46 pm »
Either someone out there might be looking for a little $3.7M Wyoming summer cottage, or she expects no one will read her book!

Anybody know how many bathrooms the place has got? Might make a nice home for a Brokeback institute.  ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Marge_Innavera

  • Guest
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #72 on: March 01, 2011, 12:15:19 pm »
I think it looks like a hardware store.

I was thinking of an upscale feed store  --- one that caters to people who buy $3.7 million houses.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #73 on: March 01, 2011, 12:23:26 pm »
I was thinking of an upscale feed store  --- one that caters to people who buy $3.7 million houses.

Yup, that too!  Hardware, hay, and feed. ...  ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,566
  • Those were the days, Alberta 2007.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #74 on: March 01, 2011, 01:10:41 pm »
Yup, that too!  Hardware, hay, and feed. ...  ;D

...and Birdseed.
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #75 on: March 01, 2011, 01:19:11 pm »
I saw a store yesterday with a banner on the side that said "Hardware for Women." I briefly thought I'd send my mother there for her hardware needs; then I saw the sign on the front that said "Jewelry Store."
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline trekfan

  • Sr. Ranch Hand
  • ***
  • Posts: 149
  • Their Love Will Live Forever!
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #76 on: March 05, 2011, 11:58:37 am »

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #77 on: March 05, 2011, 03:13:11 pm »
I saw a store yesterday with a banner on the side that said "Hardware for Women." I briefly thought I'd send my mother there for her hardware needs; then I saw the sign on the front that said "Jewelry Store."

I wonder what they would sell in a store with a sign that said "Power Tools for Women"?  ???  8)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #78 on: March 07, 2011, 12:25:23 pm »
There's a store in San Francisco that fits this description, it's called "Good Vibrations."

Meanwhile, back to the topic. The sound recording of this book is ready for me to pick up at my local library!! And it looks like AP herself might be the narrator!! That in itself will help shed some light on this book and its motives, I think. There is another contributor mentioned...Joan Allen. I don't know anything about her. Stay tuned...
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #79 on: March 07, 2011, 01:01:05 pm »
Meanwhile, back to the topic. The sound recording of this book is ready for me to pick up at my local library!! And it looks like AP herself might be the narrator!! That in itself will help shed some light on this book and its motives, I think. There is another contributor mentioned...Joan Allen. I don't know anything about her. Stay tuned...

If she's a reader of the audio book, it's probably Joan Allen, who is a highly respected actress.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000260/
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,764
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #80 on: March 09, 2011, 11:09:27 am »
A pretty good review from Slate:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/browbeat/archive/2011/02/15/hulu-and-criterion-team-up-to-send-you-to-film-school.aspx

Book of the Week: Bird Cloud
By Julia Felsenthal


The basic structure of Annie Proulx’s new memoir, Bird Cloud, is simple. Proulx is a woman who comes from nomadic forebears and has lived a peripatetic life. As she enters old age, she longs to finally build her dream home.  After one false start, she acquires what she believes to be the perfect piece of Wyoming land and undertakes the monumental task of designing and building her vision—only to be disappointed by the realization that Bird Cloud (both the name of the house and the cliff near which it sits) is riddled with unforeseen complications and, ultimately, fatal flaws.

In theory, it’s perfect memoir stock. Proulx’s book seems to fit neatly into a hot new genre that Sandra Tsing-Loh described in the Atlantic last summer: books written by middle-aged women about finding happiness not through love, but through real estate. Tsing-Loh writes that in home ownership, as opposed to relationships, “whatever the problem, we can engineer the solution—we just need to roll up our sleeves, invoke a panel of experts, troll for the best prices online, rearrange, rehydrate, tinker, fix, hammer.” And frankly, who doesn’t like to live vicariously through someone else’s housing drama? (If you disagree, I dare you to watch just one episode of HGTV’s House Hunters.)

Bird Cloud may seem to be an ideal example of Tsing-Loh’s formula, but really, it’s a far stranger book than most in its class. In a genre characterized by often painful oversharing, Proulx—both refreshingly and exasperatingly—offers up virtually nothing of her personal or emotional life.  We learn little of the events that landed her in this particular circumstance. As she builds her fantasy home in the Wyoming wilderness, her only companions are the people she employs and a shadowy set of adult children who float in and out of the narrative with nary a biographical detail to set one apart from another.  Nor do we learn much of Proulx’s own feelings: Her emotional range, if this memoir is to be believed, flows between peaceful (sometimes smug) satisfaction and mild, good-humored aggravation.  What we do learn about, in four distinct sections, are less interior matters: the genealogy of the Proulx family, the history of the land on which the author builds, the intricate details of the process of constructing her house, and the almost human dramas of the birds whose daily activities can be observed from its many windows.

Proulx’s writing—sometimes stilted and corny, sometimes wonderfully illustrative—lurches through several distinct registers.  The chapters on house-building feel like they’re taken from an enthusiastic first-time homeowner’s blog.  The bird-watching section reads like it was lifted directly from the journal of a rather verbose naturalist.  But Proulx shines when she explores the intersection of history and her own experience, and when she brings to life the rarefied culture of Wyoming and the West.  Bird Cloud is an homage to the West—its particular inhabitants, customs, nature and history.  But it’s also an exercise in excavating the foundations of things. The history of the Proulx family is the foundation of Annie Proulx, just as the history of the land is the foundation of her dream house.  These themes are fertile and fascinating, but it’s the house itself, imbued with so much expectation and attention, that turns out to be tricky—for both author and reader. After a long hard winter, Proulx admits that “no matter how much I loved the place it was not, and never could be, the final home of which I had dreamed.”  The pathos is evident, but Proulx never allows us in to explore.  The house, as a result, is as challenging a literary device as it is a practical dwelling place: a spacious metaphor, but ultimately an empty one.




Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #81 on: March 09, 2011, 02:29:50 pm »
Very perceptive review.

I don't think I could allow real estate to stand in for love.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #82 on: March 09, 2011, 02:37:53 pm »
I don't think I could allow real estate to stand in for love.

"Land is the only thing worth working for, worth fighting for, worth dying for, because it's the only thing that lasts."
--Gerald O'Hara

 ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Online southendmd

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,061
  • well, I won't
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #83 on: March 09, 2011, 02:38:47 pm »
Having read the book, I think this is a good review.

However, if Annie is a "middle-aged woman", then I'm a spring chicken!

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #84 on: March 09, 2011, 02:42:16 pm »
However, if Annie is a "middle-aged woman", then I'm a spring chicken!

Well, remember, 50 is the new 40, or something like that.  ;D

And you're just a young whippersnapper anyway. ...  ;D  :-*
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Online southendmd

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,061
  • well, I won't
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #85 on: March 09, 2011, 02:53:10 pm »
Well, remember, 50 is the new 40, or something like that.  ;D

And you're just a young whippersnapper anyway. ...  ;D  :-*

Apparently 75 is the new 40! 

Yeah, I'm just an adolescent.

Offline serious crayons

  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,764
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #86 on: March 09, 2011, 03:06:25 pm »
"Land is the only thing worth working for, worth fighting for, worth dying for, because it's the only thing that lasts."
--Gerald O'Hara

Always ready with a relevant GWTW quote!  :laugh:


Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #87 on: March 09, 2011, 03:17:47 pm »
Apparently 75 is the new 40!

Well, that's good news for me!  :laugh: 

Quote
Yeah, I'm just an adolescent.

Still wet behind the ears. ...  ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #88 on: March 09, 2011, 03:19:01 pm »
Always ready with a relevant GWTW quote!  :laugh:

Well, when you're handed the cue line on a silver platter, whaddaya gonna do?  ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,566
  • Those were the days, Alberta 2007.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #89 on: March 09, 2011, 03:34:59 pm »


I don't think I could allow real estate to stand in for love.


You would be surpised how many people approach it from that direction. They have to fall in love with the house, and if you can't get them married off before they fall out of love, then you got a mess on your hands.
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #90 on: March 09, 2011, 08:14:13 pm »
I'm about to find out...I picked up the sound recording at the library today and listened to half of Chapter One on the way home. It's too early to say, but the book starts out wonderfully with an insightful description of the Bird Cloud rock formation and its environs, comparing it to some of the revered monoliths of Central Australia. And then Annie (for it is she meme reading the first chapter only) segues into a remembrance of houses past which morphs into her family history.

I'll try not to give away too many spoilers, but here's a little tidbit that struck me personally. Her mother's favorite book was Stratton's Girl of the Limberlost. I own and have read that book recently!!
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #91 on: March 10, 2011, 01:26:31 pm »
Listened to more of the memoirs on the way to work. Joan Allen takes over the narration duties from Annie after the first chapter. I liked Annie's reading but Joan's is much better. It's like having Judy Collins sing a song by Joni Mitchell. Much smoother. You don't focus on the reader, you focus on the story. Chapter 2 talks about Annie's early life. It really IS like a memoir so far. It's very interesting to hear about early experiences and connect the dots to some of the things in her stories. Her recollections, even of things that happened fifty or more years ago are very vivid. I wish I had that talent.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #92 on: March 10, 2011, 02:06:32 pm »
Chapter 2 talks about Annie's early life. It really IS like a memoir so far. It's very interesting to hear about early experiences and connect the dots to some of the things in her stories. Her recollections, even of things that happened fifty or more years ago are very vivid. I wish I had that talent.

That would fascinate me, that and reading about her family background. This sort of thing always does--why I love Who Do You Think You Are on TV.  :)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #93 on: March 10, 2011, 02:31:13 pm »
It IS fascinating, friend. In fact, I'm thinking of just driving around during my lunch hour so I can listen to it!!

Later: On the way home, I listened to tales of the planning of the new house and its site. I started wondering if Annie Proulx would like to buy my house! It does not have the North Platte River running by it, but it does have nice views and abundant wildlife. There are interesting pieces of light because it has several round and half-round windows, more than a dozen French doors with mullions, skylights, etc. and a large central room for books, a dining room with a large table, a pantry, a laundry room with room for fishing rods, and a large walk-in closet (actually a separate room off the master bath for clothing). It's dead quiet at night. It doesn't have a room with tatami mats but I could rip out some carpeting and install some. And it would be a lot less than $3.7 million!!
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 11:40:11 pm by Front-Ranger »
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #94 on: March 15, 2011, 11:24:46 am »
I finished listening to this yesterday. What a wonderful way to spend time if you have to commute four a couple of hours a day...listening to Annie Proulx's account of her year and the summers of other years at her home "Bird Cloud" on the banks of the North Platte River in Central Wyoming. After a chapter or two devoted to the actual building of the house, she writes about the history of the area, Michenor-style, and then a chapter on birds, especially birds of prey. It was a very interesting book and much different than the accounts and reviews of it. Methinks some of those reviewers must have had hidden agendas (agendae?)

Even the parts about the various contractors that worked on the house. I haven't ever built a house from scratch but I've renovated, including a major gutting of a kitchen. I'm familiar with the hassles she had about contractor no-shows and things that don't turn out the way they were promised. In my opinion, she was very patient with the two-year construction schedule and heaped praise and respect on nearly all of the contractors. "The James Gang" in particular, a group of four brothers who built and landscaped the house, were portrayed as near saints in the book. There are a few times when she comes across as a bit naive, but I want that in a novelist...and a person!
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #95 on: March 15, 2011, 12:20:01 pm »
Jesus H., it sounds like all those spiteful reviewers read an entirely different book.  :-\
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,764
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #96 on: March 15, 2011, 01:17:47 pm »
Jesus H., it sounds like all those spiteful reviewers read an entirely different book.  :-\

Spiteful? I wonder why several different reviewers would feel spite toward AP.

I'm thinking it's probably just that different people hold different opinions. Though I would say that Lee, completely understandably, probably went into the book with the opposite of spite toward AP.


Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #97 on: March 15, 2011, 01:29:37 pm »
Spiteful? I wonder why several different reviewers would feel spite toward AP.

Professional jealousy, maybe.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,764
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #98 on: March 15, 2011, 01:49:35 pm »
Professional jealousy, maybe.

If reviewers gave bad reviews to writers they felt was better than them, then no good book would ever get a good review. Only bad writing would get good reviews.


Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #99 on: March 15, 2011, 04:09:33 pm »
Jesus H., it sounds like all those spiteful reviewers read an entirely different book.  :-\

Well, I kept thinking, okay, when is it going to get nasty? I was actually looking forward to it!!

As Paul clarified earlier, the Garner review from the New York Times was the most negative of all the reviews he saw. I also noticed that The New Yorker review was kind of meh. Most other reviews have been neutral or positive.

The fact that I llistened to it on CD might have also been a factor. When you hear the author's voice, you have a more positive reaction than when you just read black words on white paper.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline serious crayons

  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,764
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #100 on: March 15, 2011, 09:19:40 pm »
If reviewers gave bad reviews to writers they felt was better than them,

In fact, I'm a book reviewer, myself, and I give bad reviews to all writers whose subjects and verbs agree.


Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #101 on: March 15, 2011, 10:51:39 pm »
In fact, I'm a book reviewer, myself, and I give bad reviews to all writers whose subjects and verbs agree.

Yes, subject/verb agreement are SO twentieth century!!
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,187
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #102 on: March 16, 2011, 08:26:39 pm »
If reviewers gave bad reviews to writers they felt was better than them,

I noticed that yesterday. I just tactfully averted my eyes, as from another's nakedness. ...
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #103 on: March 17, 2011, 12:15:41 am »
You reminded me of that scene in Little Big Man where Faye Dunaway is "washing" the "boy" Dustin Hoffman and says "I shall avert my eyes".  :laugh:
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline serious crayons

  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,764
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #104 on: March 17, 2011, 08:59:13 am »
I noticed that yesterday. I just tactfully averted my eyes, as from another's nakedness. ...

 :laugh:  It's funny how I've managed to make a (semi) living as a writer without ever learning basic rules of grammar!


Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #105 on: March 17, 2011, 10:00:20 am »
Becoming a Brokie wreaks havoc on one's grammar, as well!!
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline serious crayons

  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,764
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #106 on: March 17, 2011, 10:40:55 am »
Becoming a Brokie wreaks havoc on one's grammar, as well!!

I thought of that, too.

"If reviewers gave bad reviews to writers they thought was better than theme" is simply Brokese, like "We was good friends."


Marge_Innavera

  • Guest
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #107 on: March 19, 2011, 04:51:05 pm »
Spiteful? I wonder why several different reviewers would feel spite toward AP.

I'm thinking it's probably just that different people hold different opinions. Though I would say that Lee, completely understandably, probably went into the book with the opposite of spite toward AP.

Right.  It might, just might have been that the reviewer just plain didn't like the book. There's all kinds of reasons for that; spite would be only one of them.

IMO most of us tend to enthusiastically agree with reviews of things we like or that had a special meaning for us; when the reviews are negative then it's "what was this person thinking?" 

Marge_Innavera

  • Guest
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #108 on: March 19, 2011, 04:52:25 pm »
I thought of that, too.

"If reviewers gave bad reviews to writers they thought was better than theme" is simply Brokese, like "We was good friends."



Imagine Ennis saying "yes, we were on very friendly terms"!   :laugh:

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #109 on: March 31, 2011, 05:13:57 pm »
I was hoping some other people would read and comment on this. Bearing the March wind here in the Rocky Mountains and imagining how the eagles are soaring above Bird Cloud, delighting in it.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Jeff Benson

  • Jr. Ranch Hand
  • **
  • Posts: 11
Re: Annie Proulx's memoir.
« Reply #110 on: April 30, 2011, 05:24:20 am »
I can see where it'd be a problem if that road wasn't plowed in winter.
Or if the river decided to flood
Looks really isolated.  I think I'd be afraid to live so far out from other neighbors. 8)
Hello everyone