Author Topic: "...Tresspassers...Will Be Shot, Survivors..." signs - how old?  (Read 14308 times)

Offline nakymaton

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Re: "...Tresspassers...Will Be Shot, Survivors..." signs - how old?
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2006, 04:09:48 pm »
Is there a sense in which Ennis, a trespasser who survived, is shot again?

He just looks so heart-shot (to steal Annie's phrase) at the end, first in the closet when he discovers the shirts, and then when he says "Jack, I swear..." That's all I meant. Like losing Jack hurt enough, and in some ways the shirts are comfort because they symbolize the love that they had, but at the same time, they're a tangible memory of what's gone.

It's like... I know at the end that Jack's the one who is dead, but Ennis is the one I really keep aching for even after all this time. If that makes any sense.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: "...Tresspassers...Will Be Shot, Survivors..." signs - how old?
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2006, 04:28:50 pm »
and if the added significance of the message didn't hit you THE FIRST TIME YOU SAW THE MOVIE, you must have been asleep...

In that case, I must have been in a coma. I'm not sure I even noticed the sign at all, let alone appreciated its added significance. That first time, I noticed exactly two things that I thought might possibly have additional significance, though I didn't know what it was, and neither one of them was that sign.

But how could anyone understand the sign's significance if they didn't know how the movie ends? Or do you mean they'd get to the end and say to themselves, "Oh, so THAT'S what the sign outside Aguirre's office really meant!"

I know at the end that Jack's the one who is dead, but Ennis is the one I really keep aching for even after all this time. If that makes any sense.

Yeah, me too, and that's what I mean, too. At the end, Ennis has "survived" only by the most literal definition of the term.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2006, 05:18:23 pm by latjoreme »

Offline David In Indy

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Re: "...Tresspassers...Will Be Shot, Survivors..." signs - how old?
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2006, 05:26:20 pm »
In that case, I must have been in a coma. I'm not sure I even noticed the sign at all, let alone appreciated its added significance. That first time, I noticed exactly two things that I thought might possibly have additional significance, though I didn't know what it was, and neither one of them was that sign.


I never figured out the significance of the sign either.

Kudos to Shuggy for noticing it and bringing it to our attention!  :D

You all may have been asleep or in comas, but I have watched Brokeback Mountain more than 100 times.

Hell, I must be DEAD.   ???


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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: "...Tresspassers...Will Be Shot, Survivors..." signs - how old?
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2006, 06:02:54 pm »
Wow, I never stopped to consider how that sign applies to the story and Jack and Ennis particularly.  But, it's very good.  It does seem to echo the situation with Jack and Ennis being "trespassers" and bearing the "consequences" in two different ways.

The sign seems very appropriate to an "old West" type atmosphere for the film.  It reminds me of the old signs such as "please don't shoot the piano player" etc. that you see sometimes in saloons and other similar venues in movies and plays about the old West.
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mvansand76

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Re: "...Tresspassers...Will Be Shot, Survivors..." signs - how old?
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2006, 07:07:29 am »
What in the world does a bucking bronco on a license plate have to do with a trespassing sign?   ???

I have to admit I am as confused as you are!

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: "...Tresspassers...Will Be Shot, Survivors..." signs - how old?
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2006, 09:16:25 am »
The first time I saw the movie, I noticed the sign and found it freakin' hilarious. But I was the only person in the theatre who laughed, because it was not translated/read out loud to the audience. Got me some strange looks  ::)

Quote
From Katherine:
While also describing more or less what happens to Jack and Ennis, who "trepass" against society's rules.

This occurred to me the first time I saw the movie in English. Not at the beginning, when the sign is to be seen at Aguirre's trailer, but at the end of their summer. When Ennis crouches in the alley and one split-second before the scene cuts to his and Alma's wedding, the minister is already heard "And forgive our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us".

When I heard the word "trespasses" I thought immediately of the sign at the trailer. And suddenly it wasn't too funny anymore.
The fact that the love between Ennis and Jack, and living that love, was regarded as trespassing rules is sad, not funny.

Jack's the trespasser who is shot, Ennis is the survivor who is shot again:
  • receiving the postcard stamped deceased (the first shot)
  • then at the Twist farm, when OMT talks about "one other fella" (look at him in this very moment: heart-shot is the fitting descrption)
  • the denial of Jack's ashes
  • then when he finds the shirts (although finding the shirts is both: heartbreaking, but a blessing nonetheless)
  • and finally in the end, when he is all alone in his trailer, swearing to empty, old shirts - and they are all which he has left.

So the sign sums it up, it's like a warning, a foreshadowing

This list reminds me of my very first impression of BBM. After seeing it, my friend and me could not talk about it. The only thing which was said was: this movie is completely different from any other movie I've ever seen (then we talked about Linda Cardellinni and ER).
When I came home, I said very few to my husband. But what I said was, that it is the saddest movie I've ever seen, because the pain finds no end. It goes on and on: after Jack's death, Ennis is as devasteted as one can be, he is simply finished. But the torture is not over yet. There comes another punch, and another, and another. This is so painful to watch.
I feel the same as Mel and Katherine: Jack is the one who ends up dead, but it's Ennis my heart aches for to no end  :'(


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« Last Edit: September 25, 2006, 11:26:27 am by Penthesilea »

Offline serious crayons

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Re: "...Tresspassers...Will Be Shot, Survivors..." signs - how old?
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2006, 01:45:20 pm »
I feel the same as Mel and Katherine: Jack is the one who ends up dead, but it's Ennis my heart aches for to no end  :'(

I know this sounds stupid, but when I first got to imdb and saw all those posts from people who felt particularly sorry for Jack, I was surprised and confused. Sorry for Jack? Why?

And then I thought -- duh! -- oh yeah, he died. After spending at least half his life frustrated and lonely. I had been so focused on my sadness for Ennis, I'd hardly even thought about Jack's sad fate.

Full disclosure: This may have been slightly connected to my similar surprise at finding out how many people seemed to consider Jack the more attractive of the two.  ::)  But not entirely! Given that there's a nine-page thread on this forum considering whether Ennis would commit suicide, it seems reasonable to think of Ennis' fate as almost as bad as Jack's.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: "...Tresspassers...Will Be Shot, Survivors..." signs - how old?
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2006, 11:53:28 pm »
Penthesilea, that was one excellent post.  I love the parallel between the trespassing sign and the lines we hear the minister saying over the image of Ennis crying in the alley.  It adds tremendous weight to that sign, which does seem like something funny in the beginning.  It's one of those props/ elements in the film that gain meaning in hindsight.  It's the kind of detail and nuance that would be hard to understand fully with only one viewing.

Katherine, I understand what you mean about feeling more sorry for Ennis in some ways. Living with the tremendous pain and  extreme loneliness are obviously huge burdens. So, if he's the one who gets "shot again" according to the sign... what is the second shot?  He survives and "will be shot again."  Do we see the second shot in the film?  Or is that left outside the narrative of the fim?
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: "...Tresspassers...Will Be Shot, Survivors..." signs - how old?
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2006, 01:40:18 am »
So, if he's the one who gets "shot again" according to the sign... what is the second shot?  He survives and "will be shot again."  Do we see the second shot in the film?  Or is that left outside the narrative of the fim?

I interpret the second shot in a kind of vague, generalized way, as encompassing Ennis' whole experience of Jack's death: the shock of the postcard, OMT's revelation, the ashes, the shirts, the huge sadness of the northern plains, the endless grief and loneliness and regret. It's funny, even the sign leaves his fate kind of open-ended. In warning that "survivors will be shot again," it suggests they'll meet a fate almost as bad as the non-survivors -- a blast of pain and injury -- but it might not necessarily involve death.

Offline dly64

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Re: "...Tresspassers...Will Be Shot, Survivors..." signs - how old?
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2006, 08:09:36 pm »
For all the times I have watched BBM, I have never noticed the darn sign! I think I focus so intently on Jack and Ennis that I tend not to look at the things around them (when they meet for the first time and are in Aguirre's trailer). I know I have missed other things as well. Someone said (was it Mel??) they saw sheepskins in Aguirre's trailer? I haven't found them. I don't know if I am looking in the right place. If anyone knows, give me a clue. Has anyone seen something else that has not been that obvious?

.... I have seen these same signs here in Indiana for years... ever since I was a child. Indiana can have a real "red neck" mentality sometimes. Yes, I have seen those very same signs posted all across my state for as long as I can remember.

David - you are cracking me up! You really think there is a redneck mentality in some areas of good ol' Indiana?? Hmmmmm ..... Being a Hoosier myself I can definitely answer ... YES!!!!!  ;D
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