Ennis or Jack? Which one did you identify with more?

[monimm18]

I think one of the reasons why some films go beyond our minds and enter our hearts is the fact that we identify with one or more of the characters, or the situations. Since my first days on the BBM board at IMDB I heard (well, read...) some people mentioning that they identified with Ennis or Jack. We have all dissected and analyzed this beautiful film and his characters enough to realize the difference between Jack and Ennis.

So, here's my question again:

With which one have you identified more, Jack or Ennis; and why? Mind you, I don't mean which one have you empathised with/felt for, although I would like to hear about that too. I mean which one of them reminded you more of yourself today, or at siome point(s) in your life?

As for myself, I realized I have identified with Ennis for one period in my life, and with Jack for another. Like Ennis I once was afraid to take that leap of faith and defy my circumstances. Then, later I played Jack to an Ennis, daring to give everything for someone who was afraid of losing before he even tried playing.  Nothing new, you'll say, and I agree. We all have our hardhsips, but do they they affect us differently?

Funny, even though the second period was the one that hurt the most, it's the first one, when I was like Ennis, that I regret the most. I wonder if it's  human nature - do we have more regrets for lost opportunities than for the consequences of the things we did?

So, I guess, in my case, I identified more with Ennis.

Now, empathy wise, my heart went to Jack, maybe because he was, like Annie Proulx put it (paraphrasing a bit), "quicksilver, beautiful, hungry, bitterly disappointed over and over, and still able to give so much love and electricity". Who could not love that? Jack's soul is what I wanted mine to be.

moni

[montferrat]

I most emphatically would have to say:  Ennis.

Not for any romantic similarities, but because I saw him as very very lonely and "an island unto himself"
and I could relate very strongly to that.

This movie was the impetus for me to change many things that had me heading for a life all by myself and I thank God I have been able to use the sorrow and empathy I felt for Ennis to redirect my own life.

[Kea]

This is a great question..

I have been thinking alot about it.

I always saw myself as an Ennis. Simply cos I was cautious, shy and more afraid. BUt after the movie ,I discovered that I am realy truly deep inside a Jack...I have always been that way...

I just pushed him down deep,  quite like the way Ennis pushed away Jack with his hopes , his dreaming....

except my Ennis's were people and circumstances that made me somehow feel it was wrong to be a Jack ...to be starry eyed...to be a romantic .... that I had to grow up...

so I changed and became a very poor impression of Ennis....it is not then surprising how miserable I have become..

There would be times when "jack" would slip to the surface...when I would be really me.....but it saced me ..Being Jack means being very vulnerable and open to being hurt......

it was hard to decide what or who to be....

I think over the last couple of weeks I have come to realize that I need to be Jack.......even if I risk the tire iron..( sorry for the analogy bashing ) ....cos there is not other way to live......for me at least.

I know I wont be silly about my choices cos I still have my Ennis lurking about ...saying .." it aint gonna be like this " ..

It is a hard thing to say sorry to your own spirit that you have shoved away and devalued.....and let other devalue...

...When I see Jack on the screen..I want to hug him and say sorry too...for not accepting him as part of who I am.....of not giving him a place in my life...

maybe I have had my "Jack ,I swear ......" moment too

hoping this makes sense to someone else..

hugs
Kea

[monimm18]

This movie was the impetus for me to change many things that had me heading for a life all by myself and I thank God I have been able to use the sorrow and empathy I felt for Ennis to redirect my own life.

Many people say that, and for a while I didn't realize what they meant. For a long time I was paralyzed by the grief this film caused me, almost emotionally unavailable for people I love, and uncapable of doing more than examine my life and mourn its little failures. LOL, now that everything has been churned and rearranged, I think the butter is beginning to separate from the whey.

[starboardlight]

I've post many time, I was Ennis, in my younger years. I understood him so completely. I understood the way he would look, or wouldn't look at Jack. In the " that's more word than you've spoken in the past two weeks" scene, the way he'd look at Jack, see Jack staring back with those doe eyes, avert his gaze down, then decide to take it head on and look back at Jack, "wha?" is exactly something I've done. I related so much to his fears and paralysis. And like Paul, it's Ennis's fate that is forcing me to confront my demons now.

Jack, I could only relate to in so much as that's who I'd like to be. I'd love to possess his openness, his charm and his daring to dream for a life beyond his own situation.

[monimm18]

Kea,

Wow... Your post has examplified this film's introspective power and its ability to change us.

Thank you.

[starboardlight]

I think over the last couple of weeks I have come to realize that I need to be Jack.......even if I risk the tire iron..( sorry for the analogy bashing ) ....cos there is not other way to live......for me at least.

...When I see Jack on the screen..I want to hug him and say sorry too...for not accepting him as part of who I am.....of not giving him a place in my life...

that's is beautiful. That is one of the reasons I love Jack so much. I love what he inspires in me to be. I want to be able to take that risk. And you're exactly right, I grieve for him because I've shut him out of me.

[j.U.d.E.]

I can't really 'identify' as such, but if I need to choose then I'd say I am an Ennis. Though once in a while my Jack peaks through.. if you know what I mean.

~ j U d E

[vkm91941]

I most emphatically would have to say:  Ennis.

Not for any romantic similarities, but because I saw him as very very lonely and "an island unto himself"
and I could relate very strongly to that.

This movie was the impetus for me to change many things that had me heading for a life all by myself and I thank God I have been able to use the sorrow and empathy I felt for Ennis to redirect my own life.

Now that's beautiful Paul and very well said.  Thats how I feel too, this film opened my eyes to the passage of time and how I was going to be old and alone if I didn't get my act together.  I'm still alive and I need to live!

[delalluvia]

I indentified more with Jack. 

Sadly for me, I seem to have a habit of choosing quiet, introspective men as lovers, only to find out, like Jack, that the reasons for their quietness and 'shyness' and introspection is because of some trauma or issues they have in life.  Like Jack, I've spent more years than I care to remember, being with these high maintenance men, helping where I could, dealing with their issues on a daily basis at times or their restricted schedules, gladly taking whatever they could give me because we did share good times only to find out in the end that, like Ennis, they were not going to change - or at least they weren't going to change for me.

It really hurts.

Like Jack, I can remember the good times, how this person 'really' was because I did fall in love with something of them, something no one else could see because the man was private, but in the end, all you have are the ashes of your relationship, their issues and the years spent getting nowhere.

I can cry for the Ennis' I've loved, because I know where fear and insecurity can drive a man, but in the end, I'm crying for Jack.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Ennis, unquestionablly I identify with Ennis.

Seeing Ennis on the screen is like having a mirror held up to myself and my life--and not for good or vain reasons. This film has been a very sobering experience. Statistically, my life is probably about two-thirds over, and how much have I lost out on because I let my life be constrained by fear--like Ennis?

[monimm18]

It really hurts.

Like Jack, I can remember the good times, how this person 'really' was because I did fall in love with something of them, something no one else could see because the man was private, but in the end, all you have are the ashes of your relationship, their issues and the years spent getting nowhere.

I can cry for the Ennis' I've loved, because I know where fear and insecurity can drive a man, but in the end, I'm crying for Jack.

God, del...

*wipes tears*

[dmmb_Mandy]

Wow, delalluvia 

I know what you mean, though. I'm definitely a Jack. I can be needy, sensitive, emotional, a real 'thinker'..etc. I've definitely had my Ennis'. I'm with a bit of an Ennis right now. Sometimes I feel like screaming: "Just tell me how you feel!!! I write you poems, songs, draw you pictures, tell you 'I love you' in the most elegant & beautiful words than I can, and what do I get? A look?!? A peck on the cheek?!" It's hard to always keep in mind that people feel and express things differently.
One of my first thoughts after seeing that movie was "Man, I hope Jack knew how much Ennis really loved him. Man, will I ever have/share that kind of love?" It really made me reflect myself, my emotions & my relationship.

[EnnisDelMar]

Ennis.

[serious crayons]

I am an Ennis in the sense of being afraid to take a big scary leap. I tend to take the path of least resistance, to eat the beans rather than risk getting in trouble for a missing sheep. But I'm having to make a big life decision now, and keeping Ennis' fate in mind has really helped me put things in perspective.

Meanwhile I also have, like others here, been involved with my share of Ennises in the sense of men with issues. For some reason, that's who I often find attractive (in the same way that I identify with Ennis, regret his mistakes and ALSO think he's adorable). But I have played Jack to these guys enough times to know what that feels like, too. It sucks, of course. I'm hoping that as I grow up I will grow out of this. (I'm 48.)

[bbm_stitchbuffyfan]

I think I identify more with Ennis, not to parrot everyone's posts or anything. Maybe that's why we all love this movie so much. (kidding...)

Just because Ennis cuts himself off from other people, unfortunately, I tend to do that. And Ennis has a hard time just connecting with the people around him. Yeah, uh, me again. I really felt for Ennis but I also did feel extreme empathy for Jack.

I relate to Jack in that I, like him, am a hopeless dreamer. He seems to be quite a romantic, what with all his hopes of a 'cow-and-calf operation,' and Christ knows when it comes to Brokeback, I am a pathetic romantic. That's why I think, to an extent, I relate to Jack.

I love them both; extremely well-written characters.

www.jlodown.com

[JCinNYC2006]

More Ennis, but both a little.

Ennis:  too emotionally closed off, guarded, take time to open up to new situations/people, too focused on past regrets.

Jack: optimistic, impulsive, affectionate, restless.

That makes it sound like Ennis has all the crummy qualities and Jack all the nice ones, but I see good things in both of them. 

What a cool question.

Juan

[serious crayons]

That makes it sound like Ennis has all the crummy qualities and Jack all the nice ones, but I see good things in both of them. 

I know, sometimes we do make it sound like that! I have been tempted at times to start a thread "in defense of Ennis." I think if Ennis had all crummy qualities, Jack probably wouldn't have loved him and we wouldn't either. He's got great qualities, but they're harder to pin down than Jack's.

[JCinNYC2006]

That might be a cool thread.  Obviously he does have good qualities.  But for each one I think of, it's kind of mixed.  Like I think loyalty is important to him, but obviously he wasn't totally loyal to Alma.  He's strong in that he can endure a lot, but his strength is also tinged with his stubborness and fear.  I have to think more about what I would consider to be his best qualities. 

I think I'm like Jack in being attracted to that kind of guy as well (especially the non-communicativeness), and boy can that be difficult. 

Juan

[Rayn]

...Jack, maybe because he was, like Annie Proulx put it (paraphrasing a bit), "quicksilver, beautiful, hungry, bitterly disappointed over and over, and still able to give so much love and electricity".

      I am very much like Jack who is kind, out-going, tender but also tough enough for the hardness of life, hearty, tenacious and caring.  He also dwells in possibility, has a vision of the good life even if he never realizes it entirely.  He keeps trying, he keeps loving, he keeps hoping, he has faith.  That is how I am, accessible and mostly open to good people and good experiences in life.  The odd, even interesting thing is that I find myself in an "Ennis Del Mar Like Land" of my own making. 

     What I mean by that is that Ennis is remote, removed, often emotionally rocky.   One of the best image of Ennis' internal life early on is after his first night with Jack when he rides off in the morning.  He rides along a rocky ridge, high up, windy, seemingly near the sky, just Ennis on his horse.  This is, at least in the first part of the movie, truly Ennis.  I understand Ennis, but am not Ennis.  I empathize with Ennis, but cannot live as he lives, but have myself in a remote country, living a very solitary life without much contact, until recently, with anyone I can actually be myself with, and no partner at all.   I am Jack lost in an Ennis Del Mar Like Land and trying to make my way out because, like Jack, I believe there is a way.  I must say though, that while I identify strongly with Jack, I have a bit of Ennis in me too, his anger, his stubbornness, his pain from past trauma and loss.  I am these too.

     In a symbolic way, I see Ennis as hard, stark reality and Jack as gentle visions and ideals.  They understand each other, but are opposites, they complete each other too.  Each needs the other to make life bearable, and while they may seem in conflict at times, they are more like the Yin and Yang of The Tao.  For me, when they are together they symbolically balance each other and form "the big picture".

Peace,
Rayn

[Becky]

I think the audience are supposed to identify with Ennis more, and I did but there is something about Jack that appeals to the viewer; be it that cheeky grin, the dreamer in him or those bitchy off-hand remarks. I identify with Ennis, but Jack appeals more to me as a character cause I think there is a little bit of Jack in me, and in every one. That little bit of them that never looses hope and is always dreaming of a better life for themselves and their loved ones.

[TheStudDuck]

I'm definitely a Jack.  No question about it.  From the first time I saw the film, I knew I was a Jack.

It's this young-at-heart, excited romantic who just wants peace in his life... he just wants to live life his own way and he doesn't care what others think of it.  He knows what he wants and he'll do just about anything to get it... except he won't push those that he loves towards something that they are not ready for.

He looks as if he's fragile, but he's actually very tough... he seems to have been through it all and more, despite his outward appearance.

He gives more than he takes... he's the one that will drive all the way to Wyoming to see someone and not require that they drive to Texas.  He's the one that keeps giving and giving and giving and although he feels like he should be taking, he never does out of his fear that he'll lose out in the end.

He's a tender and gentle soul who simply wants to be held next to a campfire by the person he cares most about in the world and the greatest sadness he knows is hearing those words "gotta go" and then watching them ride away -- and to make matters worse, he experiences that sadness more than anyone else he knows in the world.

Oh, yeah.  I'm definitely a Jack.

[Kea]

Hey Stud Duck

..that was a beautiful description of Jack........

sending you a hug....

from one Jack to another....

Do you think will we ever hold the stars in our hands ...rather than just gaze at them in the sky?? I sure hope so.

hugs
Kea

[j.U.d.E.]

I am more like Ennis in personality--somewhat reserved, a bit shy, and can tend to be a loner, having always felt comfortable being by myself (in fact, I crave solitude sometimes).

On the other hand, I identify with Jack a lot in how I love--gentle, tender, and devoted. Also, like Jack, I can't cook worth a darn (or so Jack claims of himself).

Scott M.

I'm sharing this with you! All - the loner bit and the cooking bit! 

Though Jake can cook apparently, so maybe it will rub off on us.. 

~ j U d E

[monimm18]

I think the audience are supposed to identify with Ennis more, and I did but there is something about Jack that appeals to the viewer; be it that cheeky grin, the dreamer in him or those bitchy off-hand remarks. I identify with Ennis, but Jack appeals more to me as a character cause I think there is a little bit of Jack in me, and in every one. That little bit of them that never looses hope and is always dreaming of a better life for themselves and their loved ones.

Becky, I think you are totally right. This is why, when I asked whom people identifyed with and whom they empathised with, I insisted on making the distinction between the two. We can empathise with people we don't identify with, and many times we confuse the two. Whether people identified with Ennis or Jack, everybody felt deeply for Jack. I think Ang Lee did that on purpose. I think one of the best way to "sell" a story is by getting the public to fall for the characters - once that is achieved, wahtever those characters do, however flawed they are considered as human beings, the public would find it hard to judge and condemn them; instead, they focus on understanding and justifying them. Ang Lee has specified in several interviews that he wanted Jack's character to be "sexy" - I think, because he knows that sexyness is something that appeals to us subconsciously, regardless of sexual orientation and mentality. Hence, the reason why homophobes resented this film so much, IMO. Combine that sexyness with his nurturing, hopefulness and that "man child" qualities he has and he becomes the irresistible Jack we all fall in love with, I think.

LOL, I remember that scene from the "LOGO" special, where Jake is sitting in Ang's directorial chair and mocks him: "Eh, it's OK, not very sexy. Can we do it again?"  I wonder how many times Ang Lee said those words during filming, tee-hee!

[Becky]

Becky, I think you are totally right. This is why, when I asked whom people identifyed with and whom they empathised with, I insisted on making the distinction between the two. We can empathise with people we don't identify with, and many times we confuse the two. Whether people identified with Ennis or Jack, everybody felt deeply for Jack. I think Ang Lee did that on purpose. I think one of the best way to "sell" a story is by getting the public to fall for the characters - once that is achieved, wahtever those characters do, however flawed they are considered as human beings, the public would find it hard to judge and condemn them; instead, they focus on understanding and justifying them. Ang Lee has specified in several interviews that he wanted Jack's character to be "sexy" - I think, because he knows that sexyness is something that appeals to us subconsciously, regardless of sexual orientation and mentality. Hence, the reason why homophobes resented this film so much, IMO. Combine that sexyness with his nurturing, hopefulness and that "man child" qualities he has and he becomes the irresistible Jack we all fall in love with, I think.

Wow someone who agrees with me! This never happens, I am shocked!
I think that it was briliant how Ang made Jack so human, I mean he is the one who always gets things wrong and says things that normal people would say.(AKA bitching) Also the thing about the sexyness I completely agree and the "man child" quality that Jake has I think made this more believable, cause when you are young everything is about sex and when you see Jack grow older you see how it gets more about love and being with the person he loves.
You are getting to smart for me, so I will shut up now!

LOL, I remember that scene from the "LOGO" special, where Jake is sitting in Ang's directorial chair and mocks him: "Eh, it's OK, not very sexy. Can we do it again?"  I wonder how many times Ang Lee said those words during filming, tee-hee!

I love the LOGO special! Especially that bit! But I have to say I completely agree with Ang; make it sexier Jake, do whatever it takes, take your shirt off whatever, just make it sexier! LOL

[luigival]

Though I found many commonalities with both characters, I believe I'm more Ennis than Jack.
There have been a considerable number of times in my life when, fronted with people who were "Ennisier" than me I would dare to be a Jack, but in the end it's often been the Ennis spirit to dominate my life.
Maybe that's why I love more Jack: he's the dreamer (which I've always been), who dares to front society for the sake of love and ideals (which I seldom dared to do).
Luigi

[Kd5000]

In my youth, (early 20's), I was more like Jack, with still too much Ennis. Now I'm worried I've become like Ennis, just gotta work myself out from ending up in the same situation.

I used to be impulsive sometimes, take chances. Maybe it goes with youth. I find myself more conservative and inward looking. I know I need to change. 

Maybe the film will be carthardic for me aka  Ebeneezer Scrooge visited by the 3 Ghosts on X-mas eve as example.   You never know what suprises life has in store for you...

[Rayn]

I have been tempted at times to start a thread "in defense of Ennis." I think if Ennis had all crummy qualities, Jack probably wouldn't have loved him and we wouldn't either. He's got great qualities, but they're harder to pin down than Jack's.

     Yes, in defense of Ennis, though I don't think he needs much defense, he has very good qualities: his loyalty to and love for Jack in strong, his tender care of his children is deep, his willingness to defend those he loves is impressive and sometimes even forceful, his sense of humor shines through clearly, but all of his good qualities glow through a heavy layer of sorrow, hurt, fear and anger. 

     Ennis is a fine man, but he really needs help with the trauma of his boyhood, issues of abandonment and his fear of intimacy.  I mention again that Ennis is one of the "walking wounded" and point to the horrible experience of his father exposing him to the murder of Earl, Rich's lover, when Ennis was just nine years old.  That, and then the early death of his parents, really hurt Ennis. 

     The poverty he was born into doesn't help either.  We all struggle , but some, like Ennis, have more to contend with in life.  Still he is tenacious and determined to make a way even if it's meager and humble.  Ennis also has a great love of nature and the wilderness that I can relate to myself and I identify with Ennis's trauma having had a great deal of it in youth, I know what if feels like and how hard it is to overcome.   I identify with Jack more, but there are very good qualities in Ennis that, as mentioned below, are reasons for loving him.  They're not that hard to see, but you do need to spend time with Ennis to see them.   Jack sees them.  I think the more time spent with Ennis, the more one would grow to love him. 

     Part of the dynamics of the drama of BBM is the tension of Jack seeing and loving Ennis and wanting more time with him against Ennis's inability to give that time and satisfy that need in Jack, but that is a whole different topic... for another thread maybe?  I must say, to end this, that both men are good people, likeable, lovable and decent and Annie P. sure created believable human characters, didn't she!


Peace,
Rayn

[Meryl]

This is a great thread, and well worth a bump.  Our BetterMostians are really insightful and eloquent in their descriptions of both Ennis and Jack. 

Me, I'm like Jack a little bit in that I'm friendly and a romantic, but I'm more like Ennis in that I tend to keep emotionally aloof from all but my closest friends and am far more likely to castrate calves than ride bulls. 

[loneleeb3]

This is a great question..

I have been thinking alot about it.

I always saw myself as an Ennis. Simply cos I was cautious, shy and more afraid. BUt after the movie ,I discovered that I am realy truly deep inside a Jack...I have always been that way...

I just pushed him down deep,  quite like the way Ennis pushed away Jack with his hopes , his dreaming....

except my Ennis's were people and circumstances that made me somehow feel it was wrong to be a Jack ...to be starry eyed...to be a romantic .... that I had to grow up...

so I changed and became a very poor impression of Ennis....it is not then surprising how miserable I have become..

There would be times when "jack" would slip to the surface...when I would be really me.....but it saced me ..Being Jack means being very vulnerable and open to being hurt......

it was hard to decide what or who to be....

I think over the last couple of weeks I have come to realize that I need to be Jack.......even if I risk the tire iron..( sorry for the analogy bashing ) ....cos there is not other way to live......for me at least.

I know I wont be silly about my choices cos I still have my Ennis lurking about ...saying .." it aint gonna be like this " ..

It is a hard thing to say sorry to your own spirit that you have shoved away and devalued.....and let other devalue...

...When I see Jack on the screen..I want to hug him and say sorry too...for not accepting him as part of who I am.....of not giving him a place in my life...

maybe I have had my "Jack ,I swear ......" moment too

hoping this makes sense to someone else..

hugs
Kea

Wow! It sure makes sense to me.
I never thought about myself being like Jack until I read your post.
Right now I am Ennis however I used to be Jack before life beat it out of me.
Hopefully one day I can join the two and be a whole person.
Jack and Ennis are like that Chinese symbol (Yin and Yang I think) they are  a part and parcel of each other . You really couldn't have one without the other in any meaningful way.

[moremojo]

Jack and Ennis are like that Chinese symbol (Yin and Yang I think) they are  a part and parcel of each other . You really couldn't have one without the other in any meaningful way.

Annie Proulx wrote as much herself, in describing her inspiration for the characters and their story on that fateful visit to Sheridan's Mint Bar. When Ennis came to her mind, Jack soon appeared, "for you can't have Ennis without Jack."

[loneleeb3]

Annie Proulx wrote as much herself, in describing her inspiration for the characters and their story on that fateful visit to Sheridan's Mint Bar. When Ennis came to her mind, Jack soon appeared, "for you can't have Ennis without Jack."

Wow. I can't believe I was thinking like Annie!
Maybe I'm smarter than I thought!

[Brown Eyes]

I am much more of an Ennis-type in terms of my own personality.  I say this mostly because in my "real life" I'm often sort of a loner.  But, I'm attracted to Jack-types.  And, I think that's how it should be... or at least it's not surprising.

[Front-Ranger]

Okay there are a lot of Ennises and very few Jacks. Why is that anyway? I am a Jack and I would like another Jack to keep me company. (Is that possible or recommended?) But I keep running into Ennises and getting entangled with them. Where are all the Jacks hiding??

 

[loneleeb3]

Okay there are a lot of Ennises and very few Jacks. Why is that anyway? I am a Jack and I would like another Jack to keep me company. (Is that possible or recommended?) But I keep running into Ennises and getting entangled with them. Where are all the Jacks hiding??

 

Well, Jack needed Ennis just as much as Ennis needed Jack.
I don't think another Jack would make you feel whole.
Actually, you are lucky to be surrounded by all us Ennis'! 

[Front-Ranger]

Well, Jack needed Ennis just as much as Ennis needed Jack.
I don't think another Jack would make you feel whole.
Actually, you are lucky to be surrounded by all us Ennis'! 

I suspect you're right, dang it. But it sure would be nice to try if I ever ran into a Jack once in a while way out in the middle of nowhere!

[Rayn]

All the writing on this site can be for more than fun and chat.  It's become like journaling for me, see, I read back over what others wrote, and what I wrote too and realized how revealing our entries are.  What recently is helping me, in my actual life, is to see what I wrote a while back and look at where I am now.  I wrote that I was like Jack mostly, but living in an "Ennis Del Mar Like Land"... ( several entries ago).... well, I feel I am almost turning into Ennis, not like going mad, but I have become much more isolated and remote in the last year because of where I live.  I know it's not good, but at least I see that now, clearly.  And I will have to make changes. In fact it could be major changes.

I'm still like Jack, but I don't want the gentle, sensitive side of me to die like Jack because then all I'd have would be Ennis qualities, and the balance of the two would be missing.   I say all this, knowing I'm much more and largely different from the two characters, but it's a good exercise to focus on them and see parts of one's self more clearly for doing so.   I guess this entry will be a bit cerebral, even weird, perhaps, for some, but hey, I understand it perfectly!   LOL

(My sense of humor is all mine!)   RR

[Brown Eyes]

This is still a very interesting question. 

Rayn, you're absolutely right that looking back on old posts can be very revealing... especially for those of us who have posted for over a year here now!
   It would be an interesting project to go back and read each and everyone of my posts (someday... if there were ever enough time to do such a thing...).  I always find it funny when I come across an old post of mine that I completely disagree with now (or at least an old post of mine that I feel like arguing with).  I'm sure many of us have grown and changed a lot over the last year or so.

Anyway,  I'm still like Ennis in my status of being a loner quite a lot these days.  This is mostly my state of being since moving to Pittsburgh two years ago and starting a job that consumes tons of my energy.  I think I probably come across a lot like Jack because I think I have a pretty optimistic personality.  I'm not as fearless as Jack... and I wish I could be more that way. 

[serious crayons]

It would be an interesting project to go back and read each and everyone of my posts (someday... if there were ever enough time to do such a thing...).

Never enough time, never enough.

I always find it funny when I come across an old post of mine that I completely disagree with now (or at least an old post of mine that I feel like arguing with).  I'm sure many of us have grown and changed a lot over the last year or so.

When I read through old threads, I often fail at first to recognize posts of mine. I'll just read the words and think, "Hmm, that's an interesting idea," or "What?! No way!" Then I'll look closer and see that I wrote it!

[Front-Ranger]

Never enough time, never enough.

When I read through old threads, I often fail at first to recognize posts of mine. I'll just read the words and think, "Hmm, that's an interesting idea," or "What?! No way!" Then I'll look closer and see that I wrote it!

he,he I do that too! I used to be quite a scholar, and then I got into this social thing, and my brain has turned into mush but, hey, I'm happy!!

[moremojo]

...Annie P. sure created believable human characters, didn't she!

Aye, that she did, friend. Ennis and Jack feel as real to me as the flesh-and-blood people in my own life.

[JCinNYC2006]

The trip to Calgary was always overshadowed by a dual sense of the realness of the characters as well as the reality of the movie being a movie.  Talking to some of the folks on the trip reminded me that Ennis and Jack are made more real by what we project onto them, the parts that we identify with and the balance of optimism and stoicism that they represent, to me anyway.  Definitely been thinking about how I don't want to be like Ennis and how I've moved away from that, little by little.

Juan

[moremojo]

And yet, isn't it strange at how much we love Ennis (well, I do anyway), even though we don't want to end up like him, or even be like him (even though so many of us claim the resemblance)? That has been part of the paradox for me, for even though I strive to have a happier life than Ennis, he will always be stuck in his fictional universe with the same broken heart...and I'll be loving him and hurting for him, no matter what.

And welcome back, Juan (and I love your avatar, notre petit prince)!

[JCinNYC2006]

Merci for that, I hope to be back more often!

I hear what you're saying about this love/hate thing, or at least love/repulsion for Ennis.  It's easy to simultaneously identify with certain qualities (the brooding, the sturdiness, the poignancy in his inexpressiveness) and romanticize them as well.  After all, he is a fictional character...the reader fills in the gaps and gives meaning to the words, the same way the actors flesh them out on film.  But yeah, at least each of us has the opportunity to be different.  At least, that's what I want.  J

[Rayn]

I ID with both, cause I'm like Ennis on the outside sometimes, but like Jack in the center of me all the time.  I understand the feelings of both men and love them equally.   

Hey the Pilgrimage was fantastics... I loved every minutes of it.

Rayn

[loneleeb3]

And yet, isn't it strange at how much we love Ennis (well, I do anyway), even though we don't want to end up like him, or even be like him (even though so many of us claim the resemblance)? That has been part of the paradox for me, for even though I strive to have a happier life than Ennis, he will always be stuck in his fictional universe with the same broken heart...and I'll be loving him and hurting for him, no matter what.

And welcome back, Juan (and I love your avatar, notre petit prince)!

I agree Scott.
Sometimes, as I am starting on this journey, I feel like i am bound to follow in his footsteps. His divorce happened not because of his sexuality but because of a slow diswntergration of his marriage much like mine. So, he wound up divorced and seperated from his daughters and now I am soon to be divorced and seperted from mine. There is no guarantee that i will find hapiness with another. I guess the difference is that i am opened to the possibility and cling to the hope of a better more fulfilled life.
Only time will tell if that comes to fruition!

[moremojo]

With your openness to the truth of your heart, Lee, you are well beyond Ennis at the comparable junctures in his life. Ennis didn't realize what he had until he had lost it; you know what you want, and are arranging to make that possibility come to life. I think you are well on your way to a happier, more fulfilled existence, and unlike Ennis, it won't be too late for you.

Best wishes as always,
Scott

[Rayn]

... the parts that we identify with and the balance of optimism and stoicism that they represent, to me anyway.  Definitely been thinking about how I don't want to be like Ennis and how I've moved away from that, little by little.

Hey, a Stoic is a good way to see Ennis.  I had balanced them as Idealism and Realism, but Stoicism adds the factor of  pain ( "...just gotta stand it") to the pic. 

Thanks, Juan.

Where are you now?  You back home or still on the road?   I'm visiting my folks in Washington State... which takes a fair amount of Stoicism too, and a large amount of patience and understanding.   (smile)

Rayn

[JCinNYC2006]

Yeah I'm home, mustering up all my patience just to be back at work.  I need another vacation.   And yeah, stoicisim, patience, and a lil bit of humor always works well at home!  Hope you're having a good time Rayn...

[loneleeb3]

With your openness to the truth of your heart, Lee, you are well beyond Ennis at the comparable junctures in his life. Ennis didn't realize what he had until he had lost it; you know what you want, and are arranging to make that possibility come to life. I think you are well on your way to a happier, more fulfilled existence, and unlike Ennis, it won't be too late for you.

Best wishes as always,
Scott

Thanks Scott!
I sure hope so!
I think your right but only time will tell.

[Artiste]

I suppose that this question will never end... we all seem to identitfy to either Ennis or Jack, and at times, change from one to the other, it seems.

Is that so?

It seems so in my life. In yours too, it changes?

Hugs!

[BlissC]

Well I'm a contradiction in just about everything, Brokie and RL - lol!

I'm very much a Jack in a lot of ways - I can talk the hind leg off a donkey, and I have a tendency to be a bit of a dreamer. I'd like to believe in a "sweet life", but I never can quite get it to come off. I tend to be an optimist, and I usually jump into things feet first without thinking, and to hell with the consequences, and say things on the spur of the moment - I'm very impulsive. I guess I'm a romantic at heart, and I like to think that anything's possible if you want it enough.

At the same time though I can relate to Ennis also. I don't always find it easy to say what I really feel, particularly when it's something big. I have a tendency at times to panic if I'm put on the spot and made to confront my feelings. In the past in relationships I've panicked when I've felt I was being boxed in and forced to make a commitment when I didn't feel comfortable with it and being public.

I guess most of the time I'm a Jack-girl, but I'm still looking for my "Ennis" 

[myprivatejack]

In a test whose tittle is the same than this thread,I ended being an Ennis,because -according to the result-:-" You are Ennis Del Mar. Fair, strong, and willful, you take time to consider your decisions and you stand by what you believe in." And it's fairly true¡.Some people say that I'm an Ennis too  in these qualities,but I'm like Jack in being quick in reactions,funnier and dreamer.And this is how I feel in general:more a Jack,whom I also feel more identified with,for his way of seeing and living life,for his reactions,for his way of fighting for getting what he wanted...
Moreover,there was a time in my life in which I was like Jack; I was pleading for a "sweet life together"until the last moment,but the other person-a woman-was very Ennis in this situation.Her existential phrase was really"If you can't fix it,you've got to stand it",she had a lot of fears about other people's reactions, about changing her life,about her duties...At the end,I knew how to quite her and I did.And I became a little more Ennis to protect me.
So,as I'm a mess as a person,it's not strange that I'm part of both of them:60 % Jack and 40% Ennis would be the fairest quantity...even if I emphatize and feel more identified with Jack,doubtless