Ennis or Jack? Which one did you identify with more?

[Becky]

I think the audience are supposed to identify with Ennis more, and I did but there is something about Jack that appeals to the viewer; be it that cheeky grin, the dreamer in him or those bitchy off-hand remarks. I identify with Ennis, but Jack appeals more to me as a character cause I think there is a little bit of Jack in me, and in every one. That little bit of them that never looses hope and is always dreaming of a better life for themselves and their loved ones.

[TheStudDuck]

I'm definitely a Jack.  No question about it.  From the first time I saw the film, I knew I was a Jack.

It's this young-at-heart, excited romantic who just wants peace in his life... he just wants to live life his own way and he doesn't care what others think of it.  He knows what he wants and he'll do just about anything to get it... except he won't push those that he loves towards something that they are not ready for.

He looks as if he's fragile, but he's actually very tough... he seems to have been through it all and more, despite his outward appearance.

He gives more than he takes... he's the one that will drive all the way to Wyoming to see someone and not require that they drive to Texas.  He's the one that keeps giving and giving and giving and although he feels like he should be taking, he never does out of his fear that he'll lose out in the end.

He's a tender and gentle soul who simply wants to be held next to a campfire by the person he cares most about in the world and the greatest sadness he knows is hearing those words "gotta go" and then watching them ride away -- and to make matters worse, he experiences that sadness more than anyone else he knows in the world.

Oh, yeah.  I'm definitely a Jack.

[Kea]

Hey Stud Duck

..that was a beautiful description of Jack........

sending you a hug....

from one Jack to another....

Do you think will we ever hold the stars in our hands ...rather than just gaze at them in the sky?? I sure hope so.

hugs
Kea

[j.U.d.E.]

I am more like Ennis in personality--somewhat reserved, a bit shy, and can tend to be a loner, having always felt comfortable being by myself (in fact, I crave solitude sometimes).

On the other hand, I identify with Jack a lot in how I love--gentle, tender, and devoted. Also, like Jack, I can't cook worth a darn (or so Jack claims of himself).

Scott M.

I'm sharing this with you! All - the loner bit and the cooking bit! 

Though Jake can cook apparently, so maybe it will rub off on us.. 

~ j U d E

[monimm18]

I think the audience are supposed to identify with Ennis more, and I did but there is something about Jack that appeals to the viewer; be it that cheeky grin, the dreamer in him or those bitchy off-hand remarks. I identify with Ennis, but Jack appeals more to me as a character cause I think there is a little bit of Jack in me, and in every one. That little bit of them that never looses hope and is always dreaming of a better life for themselves and their loved ones.

Becky, I think you are totally right. This is why, when I asked whom people identifyed with and whom they empathised with, I insisted on making the distinction between the two. We can empathise with people we don't identify with, and many times we confuse the two. Whether people identified with Ennis or Jack, everybody felt deeply for Jack. I think Ang Lee did that on purpose. I think one of the best way to "sell" a story is by getting the public to fall for the characters - once that is achieved, wahtever those characters do, however flawed they are considered as human beings, the public would find it hard to judge and condemn them; instead, they focus on understanding and justifying them. Ang Lee has specified in several interviews that he wanted Jack's character to be "sexy" - I think, because he knows that sexyness is something that appeals to us subconsciously, regardless of sexual orientation and mentality. Hence, the reason why homophobes resented this film so much, IMO. Combine that sexyness with his nurturing, hopefulness and that "man child" qualities he has and he becomes the irresistible Jack we all fall in love with, I think.

LOL, I remember that scene from the "LOGO" special, where Jake is sitting in Ang's directorial chair and mocks him: "Eh, it's OK, not very sexy. Can we do it again?"  I wonder how many times Ang Lee said those words during filming, tee-hee!

[Becky]

Becky, I think you are totally right. This is why, when I asked whom people identifyed with and whom they empathised with, I insisted on making the distinction between the two. We can empathise with people we don't identify with, and many times we confuse the two. Whether people identified with Ennis or Jack, everybody felt deeply for Jack. I think Ang Lee did that on purpose. I think one of the best way to "sell" a story is by getting the public to fall for the characters - once that is achieved, wahtever those characters do, however flawed they are considered as human beings, the public would find it hard to judge and condemn them; instead, they focus on understanding and justifying them. Ang Lee has specified in several interviews that he wanted Jack's character to be "sexy" - I think, because he knows that sexyness is something that appeals to us subconsciously, regardless of sexual orientation and mentality. Hence, the reason why homophobes resented this film so much, IMO. Combine that sexyness with his nurturing, hopefulness and that "man child" qualities he has and he becomes the irresistible Jack we all fall in love with, I think.

Wow someone who agrees with me! This never happens, I am shocked!
I think that it was briliant how Ang made Jack so human, I mean he is the one who always gets things wrong and says things that normal people would say.(AKA bitching) Also the thing about the sexyness I completely agree and the "man child" quality that Jake has I think made this more believable, cause when you are young everything is about sex and when you see Jack grow older you see how it gets more about love and being with the person he loves.
You are getting to smart for me, so I will shut up now!

LOL, I remember that scene from the "LOGO" special, where Jake is sitting in Ang's directorial chair and mocks him: "Eh, it's OK, not very sexy. Can we do it again?"  I wonder how many times Ang Lee said those words during filming, tee-hee!

I love the LOGO special! Especially that bit! But I have to say I completely agree with Ang; make it sexier Jake, do whatever it takes, take your shirt off whatever, just make it sexier! LOL

[luigival]

Though I found many commonalities with both characters, I believe I'm more Ennis than Jack.
There have been a considerable number of times in my life when, fronted with people who were "Ennisier" than me I would dare to be a Jack, but in the end it's often been the Ennis spirit to dominate my life.
Maybe that's why I love more Jack: he's the dreamer (which I've always been), who dares to front society for the sake of love and ideals (which I seldom dared to do).
Luigi

[Kd5000]

In my youth, (early 20's), I was more like Jack, with still too much Ennis. Now I'm worried I've become like Ennis, just gotta work myself out from ending up in the same situation.

I used to be impulsive sometimes, take chances. Maybe it goes with youth. I find myself more conservative and inward looking. I know I need to change. 

Maybe the film will be carthardic for me aka  Ebeneezer Scrooge visited by the 3 Ghosts on X-mas eve as example.   You never know what suprises life has in store for you...

[Rayn]

I have been tempted at times to start a thread "in defense of Ennis." I think if Ennis had all crummy qualities, Jack probably wouldn't have loved him and we wouldn't either. He's got great qualities, but they're harder to pin down than Jack's.

     Yes, in defense of Ennis, though I don't think he needs much defense, he has very good qualities: his loyalty to and love for Jack in strong, his tender care of his children is deep, his willingness to defend those he loves is impressive and sometimes even forceful, his sense of humor shines through clearly, but all of his good qualities glow through a heavy layer of sorrow, hurt, fear and anger. 

     Ennis is a fine man, but he really needs help with the trauma of his boyhood, issues of abandonment and his fear of intimacy.  I mention again that Ennis is one of the "walking wounded" and point to the horrible experience of his father exposing him to the murder of Earl, Rich's lover, when Ennis was just nine years old.  That, and then the early death of his parents, really hurt Ennis. 

     The poverty he was born into doesn't help either.  We all struggle , but some, like Ennis, have more to contend with in life.  Still he is tenacious and determined to make a way even if it's meager and humble.  Ennis also has a great love of nature and the wilderness that I can relate to myself and I identify with Ennis's trauma having had a great deal of it in youth, I know what if feels like and how hard it is to overcome.   I identify with Jack more, but there are very good qualities in Ennis that, as mentioned below, are reasons for loving him.  They're not that hard to see, but you do need to spend time with Ennis to see them.   Jack sees them.  I think the more time spent with Ennis, the more one would grow to love him. 

     Part of the dynamics of the drama of BBM is the tension of Jack seeing and loving Ennis and wanting more time with him against Ennis's inability to give that time and satisfy that need in Jack, but that is a whole different topic... for another thread maybe?  I must say, to end this, that both men are good people, likeable, lovable and decent and Annie P. sure created believable human characters, didn't she!


Peace,
Rayn

[Meryl]

This is a great thread, and well worth a bump.  Our BetterMostians are really insightful and eloquent in their descriptions of both Ennis and Jack. 

Me, I'm like Jack a little bit in that I'm friendly and a romantic, but I'm more like Ennis in that I tend to keep emotionally aloof from all but my closest friends and am far more likely to castrate calves than ride bulls.