Author Topic: Jane Austen had a lot of help from her editor  (Read 11830 times)

Offline delalluvia

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Jane Austen had a lot of help from her editor
« on: October 23, 2010, 03:55:08 pm »
LONDON – She's renowned for her precise, exquisite prose, but new research shows Jane Austen was a poor speller and erratic grammarian who got a big helping hand from her editor.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101023/ap_en_ot/eu_britain_jane_austen

Offline Aloysius J. Gleek

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Re: Jane Austen had a lot of help from her editor
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2010, 10:43:40 am »



Hmmph. There is a difference between 'grammatical misdemeanours' and SPELLING. Punctuation and the separation of paragraphs aren't grammar either, although these conventions make (grammatical) meaning more clear to the reader.

Maxwell Perkins was the editor for Ernest Hemingway, F. Scott Fitzgerald and Thomas Wolfe.

So?

If Austen had never lived, would we even have heard about William Gifford today?

I think not.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturenews/8080832/Jane-Austens-famous-prose-may-not-be-hers-after-all.html


Jane Austen's famous prose
may not be hers after all

She is the great English novelist renowned for her polished prose,
of whom it was once remarked: "Everything came finished from her pen."


By Anita Singh, Arts Correspondent
Published: 10:00PM BST 22 Oct 2010



Amongst Austen's grammatical misdemeanours was an inability to master
the 'i before e' rule



Yet Jane Austen couldn't spell, had no grasp of punctuation and her writing betrayed an accent straight out of The Archers, according to an Oxford University academic.

Prof Kathryn Sutherland said analysis of Austen's handwritten letters and manuscripts reveal that her finished novels owed as much to the intervention of her editor as to the genius of the author.

Page after page was written without paragraphs, including the sparkling dialogue for which Austen is known. The manuscript for Persuasion,  the only one of her novels to survive in its unedited form, looks very different from the finished product.

"The reputation of no other English novelist rests so firmly on the issue of style, on the poise and emphasis of sentence and phrase, captured in precisely weighed punctuation. But in reading the manuscripts it quickly becomes clear that this delicate precision is missing.

"This suggests somebody else was heavily involved in the editing process between manuscript and printed book," Prof Sutherland said.

The editor in question is believed to have been William Gifford, a poet and critic who worked for Austen's second publisher, John Murray.

"Gifford was a classical scholar known for being quite a pedant. He took Austen's English and turned it into something different - an almost Johnsonian, formal style," Prof Sutherland said.

"Austen broke many of the rules for writing 'good' English. Her words were jumbled together and there was a level of eccentricity in her spelling - what we would call wrong.

"She has this reputation for clear and elegant English but her writing was actually more interesting than that. She was a more experimental writer than we give her credit for. Her exchanges between characters don't separate out one speaker from another, but that can heighten the drama of a scene.

"It was closer to the style of Virginia Woolf. She was very much ahead of her time."

Amongst Austen's grammatical misdemeanours was an inability to master the 'i before e' rule. Her manuscripts are littered with distant 'veiws' and characters who 'recieve' guests.

Elsewhere, she wrote "tomatoes" as "tomatas" and "arraroot" for "arrowroot" - peculiarities of spelling that reflect Austen's regional accent, Prof Sutherland explained. "In some of her writing, her Hampshire accent is very strong. She had an Archers-like voice with a definite Hampshire burr."

Over 1,000 of these handwritten pages will be placed online from Monday as the culmination of a three-year project led by Prof Sutherland in collaboration with the Bodleian Libraries, King's College London and the British Library. The collection reunites the letters and manuscripts for the first time since 1845, when they were scattered by the terms of her sister Cassandra's will.

They range from fiction written in early childhood to the manuscript for Sanditon,  the novel that Austen was writing when she died in 1817. Sadly, the manuscripts for Pride and Prejudice, Sense and Sensibility  and Emma,  her most famous novels, were destroyed after being set in print.
"Tu doives entendre je t'aime."
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and Pee-wee in the 1990 episode
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Offline Andrew

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Re: Jane Austen had a lot of help from her editor
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2010, 11:44:04 am »
This kind of article usually makes me a little grumpy.  Once again a journalist, or yes an editor, has decided that the subject itself it not sexy enough for the general public so they inflate the topic.   Slight variations in spelling or punctuation are not interesting enough, but if you imply that Jane Austen's novels had a Secret Co-Author (without giving a single example of changed text), you have a shot at making that article one of the 'most emailed'.  It sounds sensational, so pass it on!!!  even if the person has no real interest in the subject.  If you go to the Telegraph link and look at the first comment, you see how such irresponsible writing invites some people to run off with the subject into the next county.

Offline Aloysius J. Gleek

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Re: Jane Austen had a lot of help from her editor
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2010, 11:50:43 am »


This kind of article usually makes me a little grumpy.  Once again a journalist, or yes an editor, has decided that the subject itself it not sexy enough for the general public so they inflate the topic.   Slight variations in spelling or punctuation are not interesting enough, but if you imply that Jane Austen's novels had a Secret Co-Author (without giving a single example of changed text), you have a shot at making that article one of the 'most emailed'.  It sounds sensational, so pass it on!!!  even if the person has no real interest in the subject.  If you go to the Telegraph link and look at the first comment, you see how such irresponsible writing invites some people to run off with the subject into the next county.


Exactly.

Me, I'm usually grumpy anyway; this article made me grumpier.  (I doubt this is my grumpiest --that will come after the week after next, I'm thinking.)

 :laugh:
"Tu doives entendre je t'aime."
(and you know who I am...)


Cowboy Curtis (Laurence Fishburne)
and Pee-wee in the 1990 episode
"Camping Out"

Offline Andrew

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Re: Jane Austen had a lot of help from her editor
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2010, 12:05:17 pm »

Offline Aloysius J. Gleek

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Re: Jane Austen had a lot of help from her editor
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2010, 12:32:44 pm »


Oh, let's be utterly Jane  and anglophilic and say--

We are feeling quite cross  today.

 ;D
"Tu doives entendre je t'aime."
(and you know who I am...)


Cowboy Curtis (Laurence Fishburne)
and Pee-wee in the 1990 episode
"Camping Out"

Offline Meryl

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Re: Jane Austen had a lot of help from her editor
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2010, 12:40:06 pm »

Oh, let's be utterly Jane  and anglophilic and say--

We are feeling quite cross  today.

 ;D

 ;D
Ich bin ein Brokie...

Offline Andrew

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Re: Jane Austen had a lot of help from her editor
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2010, 12:53:24 pm »
From Mansfield Park:

"Do not urge her, madam," said Edmund. "It is not fair to urge her in this manner. You see she does not like to act. Let her chuse for herself, as well as the rest of us. Her judgment may be quite as safely trusted. Do not urge her any more."

"I am not going to urge her," replied Mrs. Norris sharply; "but I shall think her a very obstinate, ungrateful girl, if she does not do what her aunt and cousins wish her—very ungrateful, indeed, considering who and what she is."

Edmund was too angry to speak; but Miss Crawford, looking for a moment with astonished eyes at Mrs. Norris, and then at Fanny, whose tears were beginning to shew themselves, immediately said, with some keenness, "I do not like my situation: this place is too hot for me," and moved away her chair to the opposite side of the table, close to Fanny, saying to her, in a kind, low whisper, as she placed herself, "Never mind, my dear Miss Price, this is a cross evening: everybody is cross and teasing, but do not let us mind them"; and with pointed attention continued to talk to her and endeavour to raise her spirits, in spite of being out of spirits herself. "

Offline Monika

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Re: Jane Austen had a lot of help from her editor
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2010, 01:01:47 pm »
Mr Darcy isn´t taking this piece of "news" very well...

Offline Aloysius J. Gleek

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Re: Jane Austen had a lot of help from her editor
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2010, 02:34:32 pm »




From Mansfield Park:

"Do not urge her, madam," said Edmund. "It is not fair to urge her in this manner. You see she does not like to act. Let her chuse for herself, as well as the rest of us. Her judgment may be quite as safely trusted. Do not urge her any more."

"I am not going to urge her," replied Mrs. Norris sharply; "but I shall think her a very obstinate, ungrateful girl, if she does not do what her aunt and cousins wish her—very ungrateful, indeed, considering who and what she is."

Edmund was too angry to speak; but Miss Crawford, looking for a moment with astonished eyes at Mrs. Norris, and then at Fanny, whose tears were beginning to shew themselves, immediately said, with some keenness, "I do not like my situation: this place is too hot for me," and moved away her chair to the opposite side of the table, close to Fanny, saying to her, in a kind, low whisper, as she placed herself, "Never mind, my dear Miss Price, this is a cross evening: everybody is cross and teasing, but do not let us mind them"; and with pointed attention continued to talk to her and endeavour to raise her spirits, in spite of being out of spirits herself. "





Oh, no! Miss Fanny Price, look out! Those Crawfords  are dangerous.


[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNFjv28bO8I[/youtube]


Well, whew! That's all right, then!


[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgitQ9KOFOE&feature[/youtube]
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ayKvA419lY&feature[/youtube]




(I'm a weird contrarian; I usually loathe and detest Austen in the movies. But. I love this seductive bonbon, this oddity:  the 1999 version of 'Mansfield Park' written and directed by Patricia Rozema. I especially adore the casting: Frances O'Connor as Fanny Price, Jonny Lee Miller (!) as Edmund Bertram, Embeth Davidtz as Mary Crawford, Alessandro Nivola (the very Southern husband in 'Junebug'!) as Henry Crawford, James Purefoy as Tom Bertram, and Harold Pinter (!!!) as Sir Thomas Bertram.)
"Tu doives entendre je t'aime."
(and you know who I am...)


Cowboy Curtis (Laurence Fishburne)
and Pee-wee in the 1990 episode
"Camping Out"