Author Topic: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?  (Read 16481 times)

Offline serious crayons

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This essay mentions Brokeback Mountain only in passing, unfortunately, but it explores some fascinating issues.

The Curious Case of Gayface
Should straight actors play gay roles?

By J. Bryan Lowder|Posted Thursday, June 6, 2013, at 10:26 AM



A few weeks ago, I found myself in the strange position of seeing both The Hangover Part III and HBO’s Behind the Candelabra over the course of the same evening. Talk about tonal whiplash: The first film is a study in bro humor that almost hypnotizes with its minimalist development of the twin themes “holy shit, man!” and “aw, crap,” while the latter is a delightfully light-loafered jaunt through Liberace’s kitschy glass closet. But looking back, the couple actually doesn’t seem so odd—each depends heavily on gayness for its appeal and, more specifically, on straight actors playing gay or crypto-gay men to produce it.

Before I’m accused of comparing vertical stripes to rhinestones, let me be clear that these versions of gay-for-pay are not identical. Indeed, very little has been made of the gay role-playing in The Hangover, for reasons I’ll get to shortly. On the other hand, the Liberace biopic inspired a CNN/BuzzFeed list of the 20 best  straight-to-gay drag numbers of all time and, more to the point, a fair amount of pushback to the praise that straight actors regularly get for taking on such “brave” and “challenging” roles. The most cogent rebuttal was Tyler Coates’ Flavorwire post, in which he used the listicle’s premise to perform a thought experiment:

“How would the tone of this listicle change if, say, it were called, ‘20 of our favorite white actors who played non-white characters’? After all, Robert Downey, Jr., Ben Affleck, and Angelina Jolie are all hugely popular, and each played a character of a different race in the last six years. To use the same language — ‘Whether it’s for television or a feature film, it’s not easy pull off [a non-white] role as a [ white] actor. Many have tried, but it takes a great actor to make the role three dimensional and believable’ — would be at least as problematic and, I’m guessing, much more incendiary.”


It’s true that such a race-based list would at least raise eyebrows, if not inspire outright anger, due to the ever-present specter of blackface. But does this provocative comparison really hold up? Does “gayface” really deserve to be placed in the same awful category as racial impersonation, and if not, what makes it different?

Let’s look at the movies in question. In The Hangover Part III, Zach Galifianakis reprises his usual effete-man-child persona, but this time surpasses vague swishiness with a handful of clear come-ons to his more manly co-stars (in particular a depressed-behind-the-aviators Bradley Cooper). And then there is the conniving Chinaman caricature Leslie Chow (Ken Jeong), who uses homosex as both a weapon of disgust and a bargaining chip, like when he tries to negotiate his way out a tight spot by asking Ed Helms, “Want Chow to blow your dick?”

Given that both characters are eventually seen gesturing toward something like desire for female humans, I think we’re supposed to conclude that they’re not actually gay, but let’s ignore that cognitive tap dance and take them the way they’re clearly meant to be understood: the familiar gay figure whose performance of masculinity and icky sexual desires are presented as items comedic in and of themselves, or at least congruent to comedy. This trope is so very tired (not really even worth a call to the PC police), and worse, represents a whimper of an ending to a series of films that initially held a thimble’s worth more promise.

In Behind the Candelabra, we again have straights gaying it up, this time two A-list actors—Michael Douglas as the piano man and Matt Damon as his young lover Scott Thorson—enacting the exchange of various goods that that has gone on between old queens and spring chickens since the beginning of time. Distinct from the milquetoast gay minstrelsy lazily tossed off in Hangover, this kind of casting choice is not an entirely new phenomenon: Some discussion of gayface has flared up in the past around films like Brokeback Mountain and Milk, with critics wondering why straight men and women were being given important gay/lesbian parts that underrepresented and underemployed openly gay actors both need and would, so the argument goes, be better at performing. But compared with black- or yellowface (which regularly and rightly bring out angry mobs whenever they appear), gayface has inspired relatively little backlash.

Part of the gay community’s patience with gayface has to do with a kind of representational pragmatism: Many gays are so happy to see a story like Harvey Milk’s told at all that they’re willing to cede the role to Sean Penn, especially considering that without a big name like his attached, the project would almost certainly have never happened. (Big names, so far, are always straight.) But that on its own cannot account for how gayface is a treated differently from other touchy identity-based performances. What makes gayface a special case?

I recently posed the question to a group of gay friends in one of the gayest places I could think of—Central Park on Memorial Day. After we’d clarified that I wasn’t talking about gayface as a physical trait (that, incidentally, we all agreed is real), it became clear that straight dudes snatching gay roles didn’t really bother any of us. But why? As I gazed out at the diversity of gay male subspecies before me—gym bunnies, eyebrow sculptors, schlumpy comedians, screaming exhibitionists and more—I realized that the answer has something to do with what we mean when we say “gay” in the first place.

If we define the term as the Chelsea public health clinic does, it simply means you’re a person who has sex with (and perhaps loves) someone of the same sex. But, in terms of acting, we’re really talking about a set of behavioral traits, interests, or “mannerisms”—the stuff that’s meant to set off a well-tuned gaydar. But that’s not a great definition either, because there are plenty of gay people who pass for straight, could pass for straight if they wanted to, and/or reject the so-called stereotype. And then there’s the somewhat controversial argument (which I espouse) that “gay” is really a specific cultural attitude that one must study and ultimately choose to wear atop one’s innate homosexuality. So that’s three definitions of gay, and there are plenty of others—I do not envy the straight actor who is asked to sort them out for himself. 

The nature of the competing definitions, however, makes the difference between gayface and, say, blackface quite clear. You cannot simply paint your face gay. It is impossible to play gay without resorting to some kind of special performance, whether sexual or cultural. Of course, blackface depends on stereotypical tics as well, but even if a white person could somehow pull off an “accurate” or nuanced performance of a black person in terms of looks and behavior, the unavoidable appeal to racist physical stereotypes makes it unconscionable. But gayface is pure performance—strictly speaking, no physical parody required—so if done well enough and for nobler reasons than Hangover-style boorish humor, could it be justifiable?

I think so. Particularly because, strange as it may sound, the notion of gayness as performance applies to actual gay people as much as it applies to actors and actresses who may play them. You really don’t know that someone is gay (in terms of biological response) until you’re in bed with him, which is probably why gay people are virtuosic taxonomists, classifying each other into easily legible, performance-based categories like butch and femme, bear and twink, camp and gaybro, lipstick and AG. A sort of cultural elaboration on biological same-sex desire, gayness is really a full-time acting gig, and we are all professional critics of ourselves and each other. If you’re a straight actor getting paid to do it, you’re simply subjecting yourself to the same critical gaze.

This is why gayface doesn’t faze me all that much: If Matt Damon wants to try to do me better than me, I wish him luck—just so long as he does me justice. In his review of Behind the Candelabra, Washington Post critic Hank Stuever lamented the film’s use of straight actors and argued that it needed “a gay sensibility and probably a gayer cast. Start with Nathan Lane or David Hyde Pierce; call Neil Patrick Harris; audition Lance Bass for one of the bit parts; ask Andrew Rannells if he’s game. This list is long in 2013.” In other words, for Stuever, the inclusion of openly gay actors would have somehow imparted Candelabra with the gay spark that he found it lacking.

I don’t buy it. Leaving aside the important issue of homophobia at the level of casting, there is nothing essential about a gay actor that would necessarily make him better at a particular gay role, or, as has been debated elsewhere, worse at playing a straight one.  More interesting than the question of whether straight actors should play gay roles is the issue of what kinds of gay roles are being written for anyone to play in the first place. Gay representations on mainstream screens are still so limited, mainly a series of variations  on “the nance” (which, don’t get me wrong, I do enjoy), the (often AIDS) tragedy case, or the “post-gay” type  who is boringly histrionic in his own “I’m conflicted about gay culture” way. And this dearth is all the more problematic because it encourages the sense that each gay character must serve as a Commentary on the Entire LGBT Community. Though I’m not the type to need to see myself reflected perfectly back at me in the media, it would be nice to see more complex gay roles, if only to lower the stakes and allow for gay characters—including wonderfully awful ones like Douglas’ Liberace—who can be more individual than symbol.

Indeed, as Emily Nussbaum noted in her New Yorker review, part of what made Candelabra great is that it wasn’t concerned with presenting a GLADD-approved “good role model” or an apologia for all of gaydom. Though I did chafe a bit when Nussbaum addressed the gayface issue by observing how fun it was for her to see Douglas “freed from his trademark macho sulk” in the role of a swish—as if playing gay is some kind of stress-releasing spa treatment—she’s right overall that the actor did well by Liberace. In Douglas’ performance, we have a ridiculous, serious queen who is both hot mess and skilled entertainer, creepy letch and consummate charmer, ruthless businessman and bossy bottom. In other words, a real gay man. Who are we to judge if the actor playing him happens to be straight?



Offline milomorris

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2013, 02:48:06 pm »
Thank you for posting this.

Lowder's review echoes a concept that I brought to Bettermost years ago. Specifically the idea that sexual orientation and cultural affinity are two separate things. One can be homosexual, and not assimilate gay culture. Likewise, one can assimilate gay culture regardless of one's sexual orientation.

But beyond that, I think that Lowder correctly understands the issues surrounding race when it comes to swapping roles. In the opera world, there is a perennial debate about white singers singing roles in Porgy & Bess. I am firmly on the side of "no." The reason is that race, ethnicity, culture, and racism are all essential to the plot of the opera. In other words, the opera is about being both black and African-American, and how white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestants in the South treat them. Therefore, a white man playing Porgy, or a black man playing the Policeman would not work on stage.

Yet in our society, we have seen a great deal of cultural cross-assimilation. African-Americans assimilate elements of WASP culture, and WASPs assimilate elements of African-American culture. To me--whether I like the specific assimilations or not--this is true diversity. It is an organic sharing of each others' cultural elements, and understanding those elements that makes diversity real.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2013, 03:44:21 pm »
Well put.

I look forward to the day, perhaps not in our lifetimes, when actors crisscrossing racial or sexuality categories is as non-monumental a topic as, say, authors writing from the POV of a character of another race or sexual orientation. The latter, while still occasionally talked about, isn't really controversial at this point -- black authors write white characters and vise versa. Also, women authors write men and vise versa, gay authors write straight and vise versa, etc. The right of authors to do that is usually strongly and sensibly defended. If writers weren't allowed to cross any demographic lines, every novel would become a memoir.

The ugly history of blackface, and of white actors playing Asian, Latino or Native-American roles makes the race/actor issue far touchier.

But of course there are some demo lines that get crossed all the time: rich actors play poor characters, young actors play old. Yes, straight play gay and vice versa. Every now and then (The Year of Living Dangerously, Mindy Kaling's play Matt and Ben) actors even cross gender lines. If it works, or if there's a good reason for it (I saw Matt and Ben in Boston, and found the casting both annoyingly distracting and one  of the most interesting aspects of the play -- a way to keep people from focusing too much on the actors' resemblance or lack thereof to their well-known real-life subjects), why not?



Offline delalluvia

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2013, 01:29:29 am »
Good article. But for Candleabra the gay co-worker who saw it on HBO, said it was brilliant the acting great.  He had no complaint that the straight actors didn't give off a 'gay' vibe, whatever that might mean.

Offline Luvlylittlewing

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2013, 11:54:19 am »
Good article. But for Candleabra the gay co-worker who saw it on HBO, said it was brilliant the acting great.  He had no complaint that the straight actors didn't give off a 'gay' vibe, whatever that might mean.

I saw it and agree with your co-worker.  Actually I saw half of it -- I keep forgetting to tune in, even though I have 4 HBO channels and it is being shown all the time.  But from what I did see, the performances were more than brilliant.  I'll reserve comment until I've watched all of it.   :)

Offline CellarDweller

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2013, 03:18:41 pm »
I personally am not upset by straight actors playing gay.  What should it matter?  It's the performance that is applauded, the the sexual orientation of the actor portraying the character.

Reading this article made me think of a reverse question.  Are straight people angry when a gay actor plays straight?

Were they upset wtih Rock Hudson for all the roles he took?   Are they angry at Neil Patrick Harris for his role on "How I Met Your Mother?"


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2013, 10:41:29 pm »
I personally am not upset by straight actors playing gay.  What should it matter?  It's the performance that is applauded, the the sexual orientation of the actor portraying the character.

Reading this article made me think of a reverse question.  Are straight people angry when a gay actor plays straight?

Were they upset wtih Rock Hudson for all the roles he took?   Are they angry at Neil Patrick Harris for his role on "How I Met Your Mother?"

It's a different situation, I think. Straight people don't get angry (there's enough straight roles that they don't have to worry that gay people are taking all the good ones). But I do think there's a legitimate fear that if a star who plays a lot of straight romantic roles came out, s/he would no longer be seen as romantic to straight audiences (to be clear: I don't mean the straight bias is legitimate, I mean the fear of the bias may be well-founded). With I guess the exception of Zachary Quinto, I can't think of any actors who are out now who do a lot of those kinds of roles.

Rock Hudson was a romantic star, but he was no longer playing those sorts of roles by the time he was fully out, as opposed to rumored-about. And NPH isn't the equivalent of a matinee idol like, say, George Clooney or Tom Cruise or Megan Fox or whoever.

When Sean Hayes played a straight character on Broadway, one critic wrote a negative review saying he was too aware of Sean Hayes being gay to accept him in a straight role. I don't have time to google for the controversy right now, but it's probably easy to find. I actually think I read that the critic himself was gay.



Offline Katie77

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2013, 01:16:34 am »
What an interesting article and topic, with a question that I really had never heard before.

It really does bring us to the wonderful art of "acting", and whether an actor can make the audience believe the performance.

A straight actor playing a gay role, would be just as challenging as an actor playing the role of serial killer. Both are playing a role that  is not the "real them", but for that couple of hours we watch the movie, we are completely lost in the concept that they are real. If they have a good script, can transfer the right emotions and looks and expressions, we dont question the credibility of their character.

If nothing else, it also shows that gay or straight, the only distinguishable difference is their sexual orientation....it really is an unnecessary tag that the media and critics throw around too frequently. Hopefully the word "gay" will one day not be used as an adjective to describe certain people or movies as in "the gay cowboy movie" or "gay actor so and so"...after all we dont say "straight cowboy movie" or "straight actor so and so". They probably used to say "black actor so and so", but dont say that any more.

If an actor is chosen to play any role, it would be that they have been suggested as the best one to play that role, whether it be a hated killer, a sick child or a musician. The script will be written about the lifestyle of the character, and the best actor to play that character and give meaning to the role, will be chosen. If we as an audience accept the credibility of the actor and his ability to take us with him into that role, then he has done his craft well.
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Offline x-man

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2013, 08:50:10 am »
Reading over the responses to this forum, I am left with one question:  Why should we even expect Hollywood to make gay-theme movies for general release, whether or not the characters are played by straight or gay actors?  If you live in San Francisco, Toronto, Boston, etc.,you may be fooled,  but let's face it--the world is overwhelmingly straight, by some 95%.  Straight people have no interest in gay love or gay sex because it has nothing to do with their lives.  They are of interest only to us.

Sometimes something unusual comes along like Queer as Folk or BBM, but not often.  Should that surprise us?  We have niche film makers and distributors like Here!, TLA, Regent, Wolfe, and others.  Some of their films are bad, but lots of major Hollywood releases are bad too.  Some of them, however, are very good indeed--easily the equal of straight Hollywood fare.

We should look to the gay specialty film makers and distributors, rather than worry about what the straight movie industry is doing and thinking about us.  Perhaps we could even do with less straight handling of our lives in straight-made movies, given the gay stereotyping and barely disguised homophobia often to be found there. 

I suspect that at the heart of this preoccupation with how gay people and gay life are portrayed in the movies is the desire to convince the straight world that we are just like them.  Well, we aren't.  Even the savage send-up of the straight world and gays who try to assimilate into that world which we saw in Queer as Folk should have made that clear to everyone.  All we can and should try for is to stop them from bullying, bashing, ostracizing, jailing, and killing us.They are never going to love us.  Remember the old saying: There are basically two kinds of straight people--those who hate you to your face, and those who hate you behind your back.  It may not be true 100% of the time, but it is true enough to be a good way to proceed.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2013, 05:01:18 pm »
That seems very harsh to me.

Are gay-theme movies of interest only to gay people? I'd say this site suggests otherwise, given that Brokeback Mountain is a gay-theme movie and plenty of Brokies are straight. But also, do moviegoers only want to see characters exactly like themselves? I realize audiences do have prejudices -- which is why far fewer than 5 percent of movies have gay protagonists and movies about major events in African-American history often have on a white protagonist -- but I don't think they're quite as self-centered as you suggest.

Quote
Remember the old saying: There are basically two kinds of straight people--those who hate you to your face, and those who hate you behind your back.  It may not be true 100% of the time, but it is true enough to be a good way to proceed.

The old saying seems like outright bigotry to me. As a straight person, I've been involved in countless conversations that touched on homosexuality where no gay person was present. Yes, I have heard people say hateful things. But not even remotely close to 100 percent of the time. The vast majority of straight people I know (admittedly, not necessarily a cross-section of the population, but a fairly mainstream bunch) do not hate gay people behind their backs.




Offline milomorris

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2013, 06:45:48 pm »
They are never going to love us.  Remember the old saying: There are basically two kinds of straight people--those who hate you to your face, and those who hate you behind your back.  It may not be true 100% of the time, but it is true enough to be a good way to proceed.

That is a patent falsehood that is just as debilitating as the myth I was taught about white people always secretly hating and distrusting us black folk. Its thinking like this that leads to self-segregation, mistrust, disunity, and a whole host of other social ills.

The truth is that there will be people who hate me simply because I am an ethnic or sexual minority. But there are far more people who are going to love me because I'm me. Most people with who I have come in contact judge me by the content of my character, and not by the color of my skin, or who I love.

  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

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Offline CellarDweller

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2013, 07:09:17 pm »
I have to agree with Katherine and Milo.  I've had great support from straight people, and I don't believe that we would have gotten as far as we have without our straight supporters.



Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline x-man

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2013, 07:25:23 pm »
I hope I am wrong.  I hope you are right, I really do.
Happiness is the lasting pleasure of the mind grasping the intelligible order of reality.      --Leibniz

Offline southendmd

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2013, 07:35:29 pm »
x-man, I'm sorry you feel that way.  When it comes to film, of course we gay folk like to see our lives on the big screen.  But, I don't think it matters who makes them.  They're either good or they're not.  Films like Latter Days, Shelter and Undertow, made by gay filmmakers, are our modern masterpieces.  Yet, straight filmmakers, notably Ang Lee, brought us both The Wedding Banquet and Our Beloved Film.  Certainly, there are a lot of abysmally bad gay-made films too.

However, I don't need exclusively to see gay films.  I can be moved by all kinds of films.  The kind of love in Casablanca has "nothing to do with my life", but it never fails to stir great feeling in me.

As has been pointed out, roughly half of our membership is straight women.  BBM doesn't have anything to do with their lives, on the surface, either.  Yet they are just as moved as us gay guys.  

Queer as Folk is a bad example; I found much of it objectionable myself.  

As for me, I don't need straight people to love us.  I expect respect, and yes, equal rights.  

And as for a good way to proceed, expecting straight people will hate us whether in front, or behind our backs, I think that's a sad way to approach the world.  I'm sorry if that's been your experience.  You said you're 75.  I'm 50.  We must have had different experiences.  

Offline serious crayons

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2013, 01:40:48 am »
 You said you're 75.  I'm 50.  We must have had different experiences.  

Oh, x-man, I missed seeing your age earlier. I wonder if that influences your outlook. I'm 55, don't know many people my age who are homophobic, and I think people younger than me are even less so on average.

My state recently legalized same-sex marriage. There had been, admittedly, a close call on an anti-marriage-equality amendment last fall -- but still, less than a year later, marriage equality. When the law first passed, everybody I know on FB, most of them straight, posted some kind of celebratory post. A huge crowd of couples got married in the capital when the law took effect, starting at midnight and going until about 6 or 7 a.m. Our mayor performed the ceremonies. It was a happy, thrilling moment for both gay and straight people who witnessed it or heard about it.



Offline x-man

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2013, 01:56:57 pm »
Responses to my original posting regarding why we should even expect Hollywood to make gay-friendly movies have ranged from "very harsh" to " bigoted" and "a patent falsehood."  I'll accept "harsh," but bad news often is.

I think we BetterMost members live on islands of toleration that are not general, not worldwide, and not as solid as we might like to believe.  I live in Toronto, which is to gay Canadians what San Francisco is to gay Americans.  We have had same-sex marriage since 2003, and federally across Canada since 2005.  Yet even today in Toronto high schools the major cause of bullying is perceived sexual orientation.  And we continue to have gay-bashings, although not often.  What is it like where you are?  Now think of the rest of the world--Russia and its anti-gay law so much in the news, countries where being gay subjects you to long imprisonment or death.  And these are just the worst examples.

Gay film makers are now making movies with happy endings and abandoning the gay-as-tortured-victim motif so common to movies of the past.  I applaud this, but still I wonder.  Perhaps BBM had it right all along.  Joe Aguirre threw Jack out of his office when he came looking for a job that second summer.  Alma told Ennis, "Jack Twist, Jack nasty."  Ennis' father forced 9-year old Ennis to look at the battered, old, dead cowboy in order to teach him a lesson.  And, of course, Jack was beaten to death in the same way, leaving Ennis to face a meaningless future.  Are things now really so different on the larger scale than they were in BBM days?
Happiness is the lasting pleasure of the mind grasping the intelligible order of reality.      --Leibniz

Offline CellarDweller

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2013, 08:45:39 pm »
Responses to my original posting regarding why we should even expect Hollywood to make gay-friendly movies have ranged from "very harsh" to " bigoted" and "a patent falsehood."  I'll accept "harsh," but bad news often is.

With all due respect, it wasn't your post about Hollywood that got those responses, but rather your comment that "there are basically two kinds of straight people--those who hate you to your face, and those who hate you behind your back."  I can't comment on your experiences, I didn't live them, and I didn't live in those times.   All I can say is from my experiences, I have a great circle of straight friends who not only support me, but watch out for me.  Two of them are a married couple I've known since the 90s, their three kids call me "Uncle Chuck", and they frequently ask me to join them at their church, which is open and affirming with a large gay membership, in the hopes that I'll meet someone.


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline x-man

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2013, 11:37:24 pm »
You're right.  I'm very sorry, everyone.  I'll back off.  I just realized I have been bleeding all over the computer screen, and this is not the place for that.  Please forgive me.  BetterMost and the world do not need this kind of negativity.

x-man
Happiness is the lasting pleasure of the mind grasping the intelligible order of reality.      --Leibniz

Offline Monika

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2013, 02:20:39 am »
You're right.  I'm very sorry, everyone.  I'll back off.  I just realized I have been bleeding all over the computer screen, and this is not the place for that.  Please forgive me.  BetterMost and the world do not need this kind of negativity.

x-man

That´s quite alright, X-man. It´s just that a large part of the Bettermostians are indeed straight. And as a straight Brokie it felt very strange to read what you wrote.
But please do hang around, will you?

Offline serious crayons

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2013, 10:48:36 am »
That´s quite alright, X-man. It´s just that a large part of the Bettermostians are indeed straight. And as a straight Brokie it felt very strange to read what you wrote.
But please do hang around, will you?

I second that. As a straight Brokie, with lots of straight non-homophobe friends, I was pretty taken aback. But no apologies necessary, x-man!

If there's one thing we're used to around here it's debate. You spoke what, to you, is the truth. Others have different opinions, and expressed them. We don't mind doing that; that's how minds get changed, and it's a healthy process. (The only rule at BetterMost is no personal attacks, so you can say "most straight people are homophobic," but you can't say "serious crayons,, you are homophobic," which I don't think you would anyway.)

As for the bigger-picture stuff you described a couple of posts ago, I agree there's still a lot of horrible homophobia in the world, and some in our own countries as well, so there's plenty of reason for despair. But I also see plenty of reason for optimism, at least in North America and Western Europe. Attitudes about sexual orientation have changed so dramatically just in my own lifetime!

I guess it's kind of a glass half-empty half-full situation. But to answer your question, yes, I think things are pretty different than they were back in the BBM days. Everywhere? No. But lots of places, yes.

As a woman, I see a parallel in women's rights. Are there still millions of women in the world suffering horribly because of sexism and misogyny? Yes. Do women in my own country have full equality in business, politics, filmmaking, etc.? No. But have things changed since 1963, when a woman couldn't open a bank account without her husband's permission? You bet.



Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2013, 11:59:40 am »

Rock Hudson was a romantic star, but he was no longer playing those sorts of roles by the time he was fully out, as opposed to rumored-about. And NPH isn't the equivalent of a matinee idol like, say, George Clooney or Tom Cruise or Megan Fox or whoever.


Rock Hudson never came out in his lifetime. He did admit contracting AIDs but said he must have gotten it from a blood transfusion.
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Offline milomorris

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2013, 02:22:03 pm »
Two of them are a married couple I've known since the 90s, their three kids call me "Uncle Chuck", and they frequently ask me to join them at their church, which is open and affirming with a large gay membership, in the hopes that I'll meet someone.

This is off-topic, but I just wanted to encourage you to go to church with your friends. Church is a great place to make new friends and establish relationships whether they be romantic or platonic. I have known several people who fell in love with someone they met at church. Just go, and let things fall into place.
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

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Offline milomorris

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2013, 02:51:08 pm »
Responses to my original posting regarding why we should even expect Hollywood to make gay-friendly movies have ranged from "very harsh" to " bigoted" and "a patent falsehood."  I'll accept "harsh," but bad news often is.

I think we BetterMost members live on islands of toleration that are not general, not worldwide, and not as solid as we might like to believe.  I live in Toronto, which is to gay Canadians what San Francisco is to gay Americans.  We have had same-sex marriage since 2003, and federally across Canada since 2005.  Yet even today in Toronto high schools the major cause of bullying is perceived sexual orientation.  And we continue to have gay-bashings, although not often.  What is it like where you are?  Now think of the rest of the world--Russia and its anti-gay law so much in the news, countries where being gay subjects you to long imprisonment or death.  And these are just the worst examples.

Gay film makers are now making movies with happy endings and abandoning the gay-as-tortured-victim motif so common to movies of the past.  I applaud this, but still I wonder.  Perhaps BBM had it right all along.  Joe Aguirre threw Jack out of his office when he came looking for a job that second summer.  Alma told Ennis, "Jack Twist, Jack nasty."  Ennis' father forced 9-year old Ennis to look at the battered, old, dead cowboy in order to teach him a lesson.  And, of course, Jack was beaten to death in the same way, leaving Ennis to face a meaningless future.  Are things now really so different on the larger scale than they were in BBM days?

You're right. Bad news is often harsh.

But I have had a lifetime of other blacks telling me the world is more harsh than it actually is. And while I cannot deny or refute the fact that bigotry against minorities--sexual or ethnic--exists, there is some considerable distance between being aware of such bigotry, and living one's life as if everyone in the "other" group is automatically going to hate you.

My parents and grandparents grew up in South Carolina under Jim Crow. My head is full of stories of racist experiences and behaviors. But my folks never taught me to be afraid of white people. They DID teach me to keep both eyes open, and because I took that advice, I was able to see that there are many wonderful white folks out there--people whom I respect and care for deeply. The same can be said for many of the heterosexuals in my sphere.

You ask if things are different now than they were in BBM days. I'd say that the answer is yes. Black men still make up the largest number of hate-crime victims, and sexual minorities still get abused. But things are a far cry better now for both groups than they were in 1963. And I can say that as someone who does not live on an island of tolerance. About three years ago, my partner and I moved from Philadelphia to a rural town in Pennsylvania--a state with a reputation for having a large number of "hate groups." The people I've met out here can plainly see that I'm black, and most of them know that I'm in love with a man. So far, so good.
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Offline CellarDweller

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2013, 07:03:22 pm »
This is off-topic, but I just wanted to encourage you to go to church with your friends. Church is a great place to make new friends and establish relationships whether they be romantic or platonic. I have known several people who fell in love with someone they met at church. Just go, and let things fall into place.

I'm a little hesitant, but not for the reasons one may suspect.

I was raised in the Catholic church, so I'm no stranger to a Sunday mass.  I have a personal relationship with God even though I don't go to church on a regular basis.  That being said (and I don't mean this to sound cocky) I have enough friends.  It's getting to the point that I'm always getting calls for dinner, to hang out, go dancing, and other functions, and I'm very happy to be asked.  To me, it seems "wrong" to join any church with the thought "I'll find a man there!"  :D  I think most people go to church to develop bonds with like-minded people, and to develop a relationship with God.  I already have both.  It may seem stupid, but I'd feel like I'm using religion to find a man, and that doesn't feel right to me.  I could be wrong....but that's how I feel.  I have been thinking about it more lately.

Sorry for going off-topic, but I didn't want Milo's post to go unanswered.


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline serious crayons

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2013, 02:33:11 am »
One big reason people join churches, though, is for the community and social support. My aunt, a single woman in her 70s, advised me to consider joining one for that reason. And I may take her advice.

tt would be Unitarian, in my case. I'm not Christian, and I'm agnostic. But Unitarians are OK with both of those.

My mom was involved in the Unitarian church, and when she started showing signs of Alzhemer's, her pastor stepped up and got ahold of me to try to help her. When she died, years on years later, having not been involved in the church for years on years (she had moved out of state), the new pastor, who had never even met her, delivered an amazing eulogy, and the church ladies helped put together a really nice memorial service for her.

That's how I realized that churches, even relatively heathen ones like the Unitarians, serve a really important social function.

Sometimes I feel like I have enough friends. But as an aging single person, I also feel like never enough friends, never enough.



Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2013, 01:22:28 pm »
One big reason people join churches, though, is for the community and social support. My aunt, a single woman in her 70s, advised me to consider joining one for that reason. And I may take her advice.

Once upon a time, I gave that advice, too. ;)  Churches can be gateways to all sorts of social services, and they often have "social ministry" committees that can even provide some of the services (e.g., picking up groceries for you if you are home recovering from surgery). For someone like Chuck, from a close family with siblings nearby, that may not be an important consideration. For an aging single person like myself, with no siblings and no children, it may become very important.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Luvlylittlewing

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2013, 05:28:09 pm »
One big reason people join churches, though, is for the community and social support. My aunt, a single woman in her 70s, advised me to consider joining one for that reason. And I may take her advice.

tt would be Unitarian, in my case. I'm not Christian, and I'm agnostic. But Unitarians are OK with both of those.

My mom was involved in the Unitarian church, and when she started showing signs of Alzhemer's, her pastor stepped up and got ahold of me to try to help her. When she died, years on years later, having not been involved in the church for years on years (she had moved out of state), the new pastor, who had never even met her, delivered an amazing eulogy, and the church ladies helped put together a really nice memorial service for her.

That's how I realized that churches, even relatively heathen ones like the Unitarians, serve a really important social function.

Sometimes I feel like I have enough friends. But as an aging single person, I also feel like never enough friends, never enough.




I've been involved with one of Oakland's Unitarian churches for a few months now.  My daughter and I attended sort of an a whim and we fell in love.  We enjoyed how all faiths, races and cultures are accepted and welcomed.  The first time we stepped through the doors we we delighted with the racial diversity.  After service we had coffee and baked goods with some of the members and were treated with such acceptance and warmth.  I was touched to see an unusually beautiful gay couple whose adopted children were being cuddled and cooed by the pastors and parishioners alike.  I still attend the Church of God in Christ where I was raised, but I make it a point to visit the Unitarian Church several times a month.

I'm not exactly close to my church families, but I don't know what I would do without them.  When I'm in need I know I can go to my church(es) to get help.  The support churches offer is almost unparalleled. 


 

Offline brianr

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2013, 12:59:13 am »
I have found this conversation interesting but I am travelling and dependent on motel wifi.
I understand where X-man is coming from (someone on here actually older than me ;D)
When we were young to have gay sex was illegal and although things were becoming easier for me, being a teacher, any arrest would have meant instant dismissal. Therefore we learnt to hide our sexuality.
However it is now so much better. I was open as a teacher in a senior Catholic boys school in the 1980's. With a sympathetic Principal (a religious brother) it was possible though I sometimes look back and cannot believe how I survived.  Actually the advent of AIDS made it more difficult and I had difficulty with some students. Now I occasionally get emails from ex-students, sometimes anonymous, thanking me as it helped them deal with their sexuality.
I moved in the 90's to a junior school and kept quiet though some students have since told me my sexuality was common gossip.

A year ago I met a guy in his 20's and said "I do not walk into a room and say Hi I'm gay" His reply was "I do"
Perhaps I do not have to. I was talking to a lady who has just joined our movie group last week as we were sitting together at coffee afterwards. I discovered she is involved in my church but a different parish. In discussion I said "I'm gay" and she patted my arm and said "I realise that dearie"  Oh!!!

My adopted country has just had the first same-sex marriages last Monday and the news was full showing celebrations with just one negative interview.
There is a new guy in my walking group. Jim there are not many guys so he has linked up with me. Married, 3 children and several grandchildren. Again at coffee I overheard him talking to one of the women (who would know I was gay) His comment to her was something like. "Why shouldn't it happen it has been going on all of history."
I generally find it harder to come out to men than women.

The leader of the opposition has just resigned and his deputy is gay. he is in the running to succeed but probably not. I heard one commentator say "of course he woud be the first gay leader of the opposition (thus potential prime minister) but that should not be a problem.

Church is very important to me. Where I lived in Australia is one of the most homophobic Anglican dioceses in the world. I realised early on that the proesthood would be a disaster. Several freinds committed suicide including one priest (many years ago now)
I travelled 2 hours each way by train on Sundays to attend one of the few inclusive churches in the Diocese. It was a major (but not only) reason for moving 3000 km to live. The Dunedin Diocese has several gay priests and one openly partnered priest. His ordination caused a stir and the bishop went against the rules. The new bishop, who is a friend, is supportive of gay acceptance but will not go against the church rules. While I have heard him preach in favour of gay acceptance before he became bishop he is more careful now. He is afraid of antagonising the conservatives.
The Anglican church of New Zeland is to decide whether to support same sex marriage and to officially ordain gay priests next May. I am afraid the conservatives are making too much noise. I plan to tell my vicar and bishop that if the vote goes against us I may leave the church, take my financial support away and change my will. However it is important for me to partake of the Eucharist every Sunday, so that would be very difficult.  However I think we must begin to fight fire with fire.

Offline x-man

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2013, 09:20:40 am »
Brian, Besides being older, we share more--involvement in the church, teaching, and having experienced the oppression  of times past.  In my case I don't know if that makes me an eminence grise or a bitter old man.  Some replies to my postings above would suggest the latter; I hope not.  I promised to back off, but here I may again have to set the cat amongst the pigeons.

I am an ex-Catholic and ex-seminarian.  (I left seminary at the beginning of my final year.)  I put up with years of guilt and denial--but with frequent fallings from grace--in the confessional.  I eventually understood that there was nothing wrong with jerking off, gay sex, or any sex that was consensual and non-exploitative, but I wondered how I would deal with my own understandings and my penitents' feelings of sin and guilt as a priest.  Friends, have no doubt:  for the Catholic and Orthodox Churches and a large part of the Protestant world, such behaviour is mortal sin.  For Catholics and Orthodox at least, this will not change.  It is dogma.  When Pope Francis says that gays should not be marginalized he means IF they give up actually having sex.  No thanks.

One day I woke up and asked myself, "Why do I want to belong to an organization that believes I am sick and sinful for something that goes to the core of my being."  So I just left, and I don't look back.  I do shake my head to wonder why I put up with it for so long.  I am bitter about so many missed opportunities for love and sex that will never come again.  My advice to you younger folks is get as much love and sex as you can NOW.  Don't let anyone try to stop you.

Happiness is the lasting pleasure of the mind grasping the intelligible order of reality.      --Leibniz

Offline x-man

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2013, 11:00:50 pm »
When I said "...but here I may have to set the cat amongst the pigeons" I misspoke.  What I meant to say was that "I am afraid I might set the cat..."  Sorry.
Happiness is the lasting pleasure of the mind grasping the intelligible order of reality.      --Leibniz

Offline oilgun

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2013, 11:20:23 pm »
One big reason people join churches, though, is for the community and social support. My aunt, a single woman in her 70s, advised me to consider joining one for that reason. And I may take her advice.

tt would be Unitarian, in my case. I'm not Christian, and I'm agnostic. But Unitarians are OK with both of those.

My mom was involved in the Unitarian church, and when she started showing signs of Alzhemer's, her pastor stepped up and got ahold of me to try to help her. When she died, years on years later, having not been involved in the church for years on years (she had moved out of state), the new pastor, who had never even met her, delivered an amazing eulogy, and the church ladies helped put together a really nice memorial service for her.

That's how I realized that churches, even relatively heathen ones like the Unitarians, serve a really important social function.

Sometimes I feel like I have enough friends. But as an aging single person, I also feel like never enough friends, never enough.




I was raised as a catholic but became an atheist in my late teens. I was actually a militant anti-theist for a long time. But then a a pansexual queer friend of mine joined a fucking Baptist church which really freaked me out but it turned out that this particular Baptist Church was incredibly inclusive, there was even a transgender member in the choir.  That made me much more accepting of churches.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2013, 04:25:28 pm »
When Pope Francis says that gays should not be marginalized he means IF they give up actually having sex.

That is certainly what I understood him to mean, and I'm a practicing Protestant with one foot in the Lutheran camp and one foot in the Anglican/Episcopalian.

Quote
One day I woke up and asked myself, "Why do I want to belong to an organization that believes I am sick and sinful for something that goes to the core of my being."  So I just left, and I don't look back.  I do shake my head to wonder why I put up with it for so long.  I am bitter about so many missed opportunities for love and sex that will never come again.  My advice to you younger folks is get as much love and sex as you can NOW.  Don't let anyone try to stop you.

"Get as much ... sex as you can. ..." Interesting. I won't disagree with that, but at age 55 I find myself becoming increasingly bitter that I've wasted my life in the pursuit of sex. I am not saying the sex is wrong, only that I'm growing increasingly bitter because I'm feeling that spending so much time in pursuit of same was a waste of my life, that I could have been doing other, more productive, things with my time.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 09:17:19 am by Jeff Wrangler »
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Offline brianr

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2013, 01:04:47 am »
I regret that as a teenager and young adult I spent so much time dating girls, dreading the farewell kiss and seeing psychaitrists to cure me. It was only after I broke an engagement to a lovely girl (the psychiatrists had told me to find one) that I had my first sexual encounter at age 27 and discovered how wonderful a kiss could be. Then I went berserk until I was terrified by AIDS in the early 80's.
I wrote on my blog in 2008 about being depressed after watching a video of 2 young men at school being open about their sexuality.


My blogpost  is at
http://brianaralph.blogspot.co.nz/2008/09/personal-feelings.html

I ended my post:
The next day at church the sermon was about the labourers in the field and the preacher at one stage said we should not hold regrets about the past. I am often amazed at how God speaks to me.

I get depressed but from observation of friends who suffer from depression, I know I do not. None of them would find a cure by playing a Broadway musical CD.
And this is the reason I become so angry with the fundamentalists today who would turn us back to those times of repression.

Offline CellarDweller

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2013, 08:00:06 am »
This conversation has definitely taken a turn, and made for very interesting reading.


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2013, 09:25:33 am »
This conversation has definitely taken a turn, and made for very interesting reading.

It sure has, hasn't it?

I was raised as a catholic but became an atheist in my late teens. I was actually a militant anti-theist for a long time. But then a a pansexual queer friend of mine joined a fucking Baptist church which really freaked me out but it turned out that this particular Baptist Church was incredibly inclusive, there was even a transgender member in the choir.  That made me much more accepting of churches.

Your experience with this Baptist congregation is a very good illustration of why I tend to get angry at people who want to lump all Christians together. Some are, indeed, downright horrible--Pharisees, I call 'em--and others are like this Baptist congregation.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2013, 10:31:13 am »
Your experience with this Baptist congregation is a very good illustration of why I tend to get angry at people who want to lump all Christians together. Some are, indeed, downright horrible--Pharisees, I call 'em--and others are like this Baptist congregation.

I get angry at this, too, and I'm not even a Christian. Progressives/lefties/liberals sometimes use "Christian" as almost synonymous with "conservative' or "right wing."

Obviously there are plenty of progressive and/or open-minded, enlightened, inclusive Christians. To me, social liberalism seems more in line with what Jesus himself would think (as liberals are fond of pointing out).

I have this friend -- he's very leftist and very outspoken to the point of being obnoxious and annoying even if you happen to agree with him. At a party recently, he started going off on Christians, how they're all this, or they're all that, they're all close-minded blah blah blah. It particularly upset me because I knew there was a couple in earshot who attend a Christian church. I said, "Oh really R-----, is that because you feel Christians aren't ... tolerant of other people's beliefs?" I think he got my point but of course I didn't change his mind about anything.

What I wish, though, is that those open-minded, enlightened, inclusive Christians would make themselves a bit more visible and audible to try to combat that stereotype. Every now and then I'll run across a newspaper column or late-night-show appearance by a liberal clergymember, or meet people like you guys who are happy in their Christian churches. But those voices are so overwhelmed by the ... well, the Westboro Baptists are freakish by anybody's measure -- by protesting at soldiers' funerals they even turn off plenty of conservative Christians -- but they get their point across. And then there are all those less outright crazy but still homophobic, intolerant, close-minded Christians -- name just about any famous minister short of Martin Luther King, or any famous self-proclaimed-Christian right-wing political figure -- and they seem to dominate the public conversation.


Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2013, 10:52:58 am »
Obviously there are plenty of progressive and/or open-minded, enlightened, inclusive Christians. To me, social liberalism seems more in line with what Jesus himself would think (as liberals are fond of pointing out).

I think that's part of the answer to your "wish" right there, even if it's a tad stereotypical: The rest of us are too busy trying to emulate what we believe Jesus would want us to do to get involved in pissing contests with social conservatives masquerading as "real Christians."

That and we are the ones who really believe in the separation of Church and State and practice what we believe.

I think perhaps also, with some exceptions such as the Baptist congregation Oilgun writes about, we tend to belong to the older "Mainline"--even WASPy--Protestant denominations, and my observation, with, as I said, feet in two of those "camps," is that maybe we don't get taught to be vocal about our beliefs as well as conservative denominations do.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2013, 10:58:09 am »
Sex is interesting. When you're doing it, you just want more of it. But when you stop doing it, you find that you really didn't need it that much after all and you're just fine without it.

As for the "Pharisees", I have been studying the parable of the prodigal son all summer long with a small study group. The audience for the parable was both the flock of ordinary sinners and the Pharisees who looked on in criticism of Jesus and his disciples eating with the common people. The real prime character in the parable is not the younger son but the older son, who was just as lost to God as his younger brother. He dooms himself by refusing to go into the feast as his father bids him to do.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline x-man

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Re: The Curious Case of Gayface: Should straight actors play gay roles?
« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2013, 09:06:22 am »
This essay mentions Brokeback Mountain only in passing, unfortunately, but it explores some fascinating issues.

The Curious Case of Gayface
Should straight actors play gay roles?

By J. Bryan Lowder|Posted Thursday, June 6, 2013, at 10:26 AM

This topic site began with an interesting article posted by serious crayons for people to use as a jumping off place to explore the issues it raised.  This might have happened if I had not thrown a bomb into the room (for which I have profusely apologized) and diverted people.  The dust has settled; perhaps we can start again.

The main issues the article raises are partly obscured by its confusing structure and the campy rhetoric which is fun to read, but ultimately not helpful.  Also, he limits his treatment to Hangover III and Behind the Candelabra, which many people have not seen, and thus cannot bring to the topic.

Lowder wonders about what "gay" actually means in the context of who plays a gay character..  He tries and rejects two definitions: 1. a person sleeping with and perhaps loving another person of the same sex, and 2. a set of behavioural traits that will set off gaydar.  Lowder finally does accept 3. that ""gay' is really a specific cultural attitude that one must study and ultimately choose to wear atop ones innate homosexuality."  He says that it shouldn't matter one way or the other who plays gay roles since, as "A sort of cultural elaboration on biological same-sex desire, gayness is really a full-time acting gig, and...if you're a straight actor getting paid to do it, you're simply subjecting yourself to the same critical gaze."  Lowder concludes that it doesn't matter who does it as long as they do a creditable job.

He then moves on to what he sees as the more interesting question of "what kinds of gay roles are being written for anyone to play in the first place."  Gay characters heretofore have been limited to cultural stereotypes, and "it would be nice to see more complex gay roles...if only to allow the gay characters...(to be)...more individual than symbol (i.e. "to serve as a Commentary on the Entire LGBT Community")."

What I have written is by no means a complete summary of Lowder's article and it bears rereading more than once.  I only tried to isolate the two main points of his answer to his own question.

Lowder has little to say about his second question--the kinds of roles being written for LGBT characterrs.  I believe this is the crux of the matter.  I think to answer it, it would be useful to distinguish three kinds of films and TV: first straight ones that do not touch on the gay world at all.  These are by far the majority of cases.  I don't care whether the actors are gay or straight in real life; the erotic/love elements do not speak to me at all.  (I know I am in small company here, but I am writing this about my take on the issue at hand.)  Second are "gay-theme" movies and TV.  These are the ones that seem to generate all the reaction.  These are the ones, although talking about gay subjects, are written, produced starring, aimed at straights and at that portion of the gay 5% of the population that will go to see them hoping against hope that they will portray gay life as it really is.  They are usually disappointed.  Occasionally a good one will pop up (Maurice is my favourite example), but usually they are, as Lowder writes, "mainly a series of variations on 'the nance'...the tragedy case or the 'post-gay' type who is boringly histrionic in his own 'I'm conflicted about gay culture' way."  The vast majority of the straight world has no idea of what being gay is all about.  They think that when they see these "gay-theme" movies they are actually seeing something about real gay life.  Well, they aren't,  I say further that this is the place where  homophobic stereotyping is reinforced.  In my more paranoid moments I even wonder if this is not an intentional move on the part of the straight movie making industry to warn of the perils of being gay.  Don't bother telling me I am being adversarial.  The question is not my attitude, but that "res ipsa loquitur"--the thing speaks for itself.  Most gay people do not walk away from these films feeling good about themselves, and I suspect most straights walk out thinking "Tsk, tsk.  Being gay must really be tough.  I hope my children never have to go through it."--And this is the more enlightened part of the straight world.  Amongst the right-wing crazies these movies are "suspicions confirmed."

Finally we come to the category of  "gay movies."  These are films made by gay movie makers, and aimed at the gay world.  They range in subject matter across a wide spectrum from mysteries, to comedies, to vampire movies, to love stories, etc., like general release films do.  It is the gay romance films that catch my eye because they treat of gay relationships more than do, say, gay vampire movies.  I did not say that gay films have gay actors--many are, but many are straight.  These films seem to have a lot of actors just starting out, and coming out of stage work in the legitimate theatre, and thus very good actors.  When watching films like these you do not notice whether your gaydar is set off, but how good a job they are doing as actors.  And the parts themselves, as concerns Lowder, are not cultural stereotype, tortured victims, or gays trying to deny their gayness and melt into the straight background.  Nor do the characters try to be symbols of the entire LGBT community; they can be individuals with goodguys and badguys amongst them.

Most, if not all, gay BetterMostian men are acquainted with gay movies, as distinct from gay-theme movies.  Where I probably differ from most of them is my unwillingness to look kindly on gay-theme movies that are covered by Lowder's criticism of them.  I can only think of three others, besides Maurice, that I will watch: Christopher and His Kind, Milk, and I Love You Philip Morris.  (Perhaps you can suggest more?)  These do treat gay characters as individuals.  Keep away from me Cruising, Boys in the Band, and that old chestnut Tea and Sympathy (young man just needs a real woman to show him he's straight).

I'll end by pointing out two straight actors playing gay characters that endorse Lowder's comments about the issue being acting quality not the gaydar or who they sleep with in real life.  The first is Gale Harold playing Brian in QAF.  The most noteable part of his performance is when Brian is playing off of Justin, his younger lover (played by Randy Harrison who is gay in real life).  Watching them together it is difficult to believe Harrison who said in an interview that the love scenes were in reality not erotic as they were being filmed.  Gale Harold can make love, gay love, with just the expression on his face.  The second is Hale Appleman playing Josh (Mercutio and Juliet's father) in Private Romeo.  Appleman takes a "best friend" role and transforms it into that of an at first jealous, then increasingly embittered, enraged and rejected would-be lover, who goes out of control when he realizes Romeo will never be his.  The homoerotic, white-hot energy he brings to the part is astonishing.  You certainly do not ask, "Wouldn't it be better if he were really gay?"
Happiness is the lasting pleasure of the mind grasping the intelligible order of reality.      --Leibniz