Author Topic: What is your take on the BBM phenomenon  (Read 22535 times)

Offline Mandy21

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Re: What is your take on the BBM phenomenon
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2013, 08:33:26 am »
Mandy....I thought you knew my story, I have talked about it frequently on here....

Nope, I was unaware.  We must have become good friends AFTER you talked about that stuff.  Glad I know it now, though.  :)
Dawn is coming,
Open your eyes...

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: What is your take on the BBM phenomenon
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2013, 01:44:15 pm »
This topic got a bit off-track so I've split off the tangential discussion so we can return to discussing the original topic.
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Offline x-man

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Re: What is your take on the BBM phenomenon
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2014, 03:02:18 pm »
I have been away from BetterMost for a while.  I want to tell you why I left and why I am, tentatively, returning.  I also would like to point out something about the BBM phenomenon that others have probably noticed, but so far I have not seen anyone formulate.  This is why I am putting this posting here.

I first came to BetterMost several months ago.  Until then I had never posted to a website, and was quite naive regarding the ways of the cyberworld.  Those of you familiar with my postings know what I mean.  I would go too far, backtrack, and apologize profusely when I realized I was behaving like a bull in a china shop.  Gradually I at least partially caught on.  I distinguish between 2 kinds of postings--those about BBM and related matters where the cut and thrust of the debate capture the spirit of the thing, and those that are very personal and difficult to write.  I have read many of these on BetterMost, and I feel for those writing them because I know how difficult it is.  As for my own postings I may have stumbled and trodden on toes, but I never lied or tried to deceive.  I have led a rather unconventional life, but at my age I take that as a plus rather than something to be reticent about.  Some of this shows in many of my postings.  This did not concern me until I was confronted by someone criticizing me using phrases like "sceptical," "unbelievable," "a teller of tales" etc., seeming to lump me with some previous inhabitants of BetterMost who had lied, and tried to take advantage, some financially, of other BetterMostians.  I could not understand why I would be put into this category.  The best answer I could get was that it was better to be wary than be thought a fool.  I didn't really care about postings about literary analysis or human behaviour--those are open to as much argument as they will bear.  But when I was led to believe that my personal postings drawing from deep wells of memory and regret--like those of so many people I read here--were being greeted, especially by BM old-timers with scoffing, I was deeply discouraged, even more so because it was pointed out to me, that gay men were especially likely to be the villains trying to take advantage of other BetterMostians.  I tried to find out if this was one person's opinion or was widespread across BM, but I could get no answer.  I didn't feel much like posting after that.  I was especially discouraged because, as Alma sings in Meet Me on the Mountain, "It wouldn't be bitter if it wasn't so sweet."  And being in BetterMost was sweet; I felt at home, even if a bit awkward about it.  Now that all seemed to be gone.  But now the call of the mountain is hard to resist.  So I thought I would try again.  I would like to think I have grossly misunderstood, but in my heart I still have doubts.  I take BetterMost very seriously, perhaps too seriously, but I can do no other.  Now, to BBM:

Has everyone noticed that we seem to be in a post-short story, post-movie phase of the BBM phenomenon?  Minute parsing of the story or screenplay for yet new hidden meanings seems increasingly beside the point as BBM moves on.  We now have Shawn Kirchner's Meet Me On the Mountain, Steven Robinson's song Jack I Swear, many YouTube videos of acting classes filming scenes of "BBM Continued," the playlist on BBMRadio, which is shrewdly done, and lots of things I am leaving out--now including the opera.

What they all have in common is the unwillingness to leave BBM where Proulx and Lee left it, and to extend it into areas we all wanted it to go, but were frustrated by the (purposeful) ambiguity and missed opportunities of the story and movie.  I doubt that any brokie can read or watch BBM as pieces of text, external to our being, to be examined objectively; instead we weld them to the deepest parts of our psyche.  For us BBM is a rich compound of story, movie, and our selves.  There is little point in trying to establish what something in the movie or story really means, because that leaves out the equally important question of our own individual experience, so the "real" BBM is different for each of us.  The further explorations of BBM I mentioned before serve to bring our own insights of the "real" meaning into focus.  For example, I noticed in postings in several places that some people still wonder what Ennis meant by "Jack I wear"--even the story leaves that unclear.  But when I first heard Robinson's "Jack I Swear" I recognized exactly what Ennis meant--or rather I felt what it meant when I said it, substituting another name for Jack, with all the anguish the rest of the song so eloquently tells--I knew all too well.  The song is a meditation on the scene in the trailer, a further legitimate elaboration  We can all do that unrestrained by fidelity to story or screenplay.  In Meet Me On the Mountain we have Kirchner's  reflections on what followed, or what might have been.  "Lookin' All Right To Me" is what we want Ennis to be thinking the morning after the 1st night in the tent.  To say that it violates the meaning of the story just won't do. BBM has picked up steam, and is moving on to where we want it to go.  In "I'm On My Way" we have Jack, now dead, saying goodbye with no regrets to the final argument or the dozy embrace.  There are more examples, but this is enough.  No one can stop BBM now.  We need not fear that the stars over the tent will dim any time soon.
Happiness is the lasting pleasure of the mind grasping the intelligible order of reality.      --Leibniz

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: What is your take on the BBM phenomenon
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2014, 04:52:21 pm »
Hi x-man, I'm glad you're back. Thanks for your thoughtful post. The author Annie Proulx herself said that we have to "finish the story in our own minds." I look forward to discussing the wonderful story of Brokeback Mountain often with you.

Because we all feel very passionately about this story and the issues it raises, things can get a little sticky sometimes. I personally will endeavor to be more sensitive in my posts, as I sometimes rub people the wrong way. I am not aware of some of the accusations that you say were made. They must have been made in a personal message, which nobody has access to except the corresponding parties.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Rosestem

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Re: What is your take on the BBM phenomenon
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2014, 12:28:13 am »
Excerpts from libretto for the opera here:
http://brokebackstory.blogspot.com/p/brokeback-mountain-opera-libretto.html

Annie Proulx expands on Alma, eliminates Cassie and Randall, makes clear Jack and Ennis did not embrace face-to-face on Brokeback, and adds a beautiful expansion of "Jack, I swear."

Offline milomorris

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Re: What is your take on the BBM phenomenon
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2014, 02:26:14 pm »
Excerpts from libretto for the opera here:
http://brokebackstory.blogspot.com/p/brokeback-mountain-opera-libretto.html

Annie Proulx expands on Alma, eliminates Cassie and Randall, makes clear Jack and Ennis did not embrace face-to-face on Brokeback, and adds a beautiful expansion of "Jack, I swear."

...and LD appears as a ghost.
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Offline CellarDweller

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Re: What is your take on the BBM phenomenon
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2014, 09:17:05 am »
Has everyone noticed that we seem to be in a post-short story, post-movie phase of the BBM phenomenon?  Minute parsing of the story or screenplay for yet new hidden meanings seems increasingly beside the point as BBM moves on.  We now have Shawn Kirchner's Meet Me On the Mountain, Steven Robinson's song Jack I Swear, many YouTube videos of acting classes filming scenes of "BBM Continued," the playlist on BBMRadio, which is shrewdly done, and lots of things I am leaving out--now including the opera.

Each person fated to become a Brokie comes to Brokeback at their own time, for their own reasons.  Each Brokie goes through their own phases at their own time as well, and stay for their own reasons.

I was never really one who needed to review every meaning of every shot/phrase/movement in the short story or movie.  I'm a viewer who lets himself go where my emotions pull me.  They pulled me to the movie countless times.

After the first BBQ in Texas, I heard a quote from my friend Jimmy that it was no longer about "Brokeback -the movie" it is now "Brokeback - The People", meaning all the movie-goers so affected by the movie, they had to see it multiple times, read/create fan fiction to retell the story, read the short story over and over, watch/make videos with the movie's footage, seek out internet sites and forums.   We had reached out to each other, and for me, built strong friendships.

I can't remember the last time I saw Brokeback in full, and to be honest, I wouldn't be upset if I never saw it again.  It's not about the movie anymore.  It's about the friends I met through it, and their stories that are of utmost imprints to me.   The only time going forward that I anticipate seeing the movie again is if it is showed with brokies.  Some Brokies didn't get the opportunity to see it on the big screen, or see it with other Brokies, so for them, I go to screenings at the gatherings to help them have the experiences I had when I saw it with Brokies.


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline x-man

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Re: What is your take on the BBM phenomenon
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2014, 05:22:08 pm »
 The only time going forward that I anticipate seeing the movie again is if it is showed with brokies.  Some Brokies didn't get the opportunity to see it on the big screen, or see it with other Brokies, so for them, I go to screenings at the gatherings to help them have the experiences I had when I saw it with Brokies.

I am one of the people who only have seen BBM  on my television screen, alone.  My emotional reaction to seeing it for the first time--and for subsequent  viewings as well--was so strong I was weeping almost uncontrollably.  And I do not cry in movies, in fact besides with BBM I have only cried once in my life. (Oh, I did get teary in Undertow, but those tears were coming from the same place as the ones for BBM. )   What is it like with lots of people around you, and  specifically, what is it like seeing it with brokies?  The emotion in the theatre must be overwhelming.
Happiness is the lasting pleasure of the mind grasping the intelligible order of reality.      --Leibniz

Offline CellarDweller

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Re: What is your take on the BBM phenomenon
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2014, 07:28:23 pm »
It's kind of hard to explain, I'm sure each person has their own explanation of what they're feeling.

I felt a sense of belonging, a sense of like-mindedness, that we all were having this experience.


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline Peter John Shields

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Re: What is your take on the BBM phenomenon
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2014, 11:53:02 am »
It is a very powerful movie that resonates with me today and I only saw it the once in the cinema way back when.  For me it is about eternal love.  When Jack died it felt like half of Ennis died too and he was literally torn in two.  Ennis was emotionally crippled for much of his life but despite being broken apart by the loss he was full of love for his soul mate.  And despite Jack's physical death they were as one.
Cheerio,
PJ