Author Topic: Another viewing, and a revelation  (Read 18839 times)

Offline Lynne

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Re: Another viewing, and a revelation
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2006, 01:04:23 pm »
Barb,

I wish you were here because first I would give you the biggest hug ever!  I read this when you first posted, but needed some time to gather my thoughts and write a thoughtful reply.

Quote
Like Eric has said, what you get out of this movie is what you bring to it.  And part of that is one's willingness to face what one brings to it.

Eric is so wise, isn't he?

There are not words for how sorry I am that you were a victim of sexual abuse.  I've seen how devastating that can be for a woman.  (One of my best friends was also abused by her brother when she was a child.)  I am so proud of you - that you were finally able to be honest with your husband about that awful time.  That took an incredible amount of courage and trust.  Secrets like that can eat away at your heart and sabotage everything good around you.  It is fabulous that you feel like you two are getting a chance to start over.  Your husband sounds like a good caring and loving person; from what you said, his response was 100% right.  It sounds simplistic, but to my mind, one of the most beautiful things in life is that each day brings us a chance for a fresh start when we need it.

I also think it's wonderful that you feel safe enough here to share something so intensely personal.  I don't think there could be any finer testament to the strength of our connections.

Love,
Lynne
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Offline ednbarby

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Re: Another viewing, and a revelation
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2006, 06:41:58 pm »
Thanks, Lynne and Mel and everyone else again for your very kind thoughts.

On an aside - and this is nothing that stems from anything anyone has said here - you've all been lovely, as always - but just some random thoughts I've had about it - I don't want or intend to use this revelation as a sort of crutch.  Yes, I was victimized.  But I'm not a victim.  Only we can decide to consider ourselves that.  My only mistake was in pushing it all down inside of me for so long to the detriment of my marriage and other important relationships I've had, and to the detriment of my own mental health.  But it was an honest and understandable mistake, and I forgive myself for it.
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Another viewing, and a revelation
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2006, 07:48:26 pm »
Barb, sent ya a PM.  Hug, Elle

Offline j.U.d.E.

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Re: Another viewing, and a revelation
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2006, 05:59:42 am »
WOW! Thank you Barb for sharing this! You are a lucky woman to have met Ed!

Until two weeks ago, when we finally had "The Talk" - the one that would determine whether we would separate or not.  Yes, it had gotten that bad.  Two weeks ago I told him the truth - that in fact it was one of my brothers.  And it was for at least three years, when I was between the ages of 6 and 9.  All this time, I had rationalized that I should never tell him because I didn't want him to hate my brother.  I have a decent relationship with him now - he's even visited us, with his wife at the time, a couple of times here in Florida and he and my husband get along quite well.  But I realize it was really because I was ashamed and I worried that he'd think less of me. 
What I'm about to say/ask is probably silly, but HOW ON EARTH can you have a decent relationship with your brother now?! Have you two ever talked? What does he say about his acts? Pardon me, I hope I'm not digging too deep.. ehm.. gosh..

When you say you don't understand why you did nothing, said nothing to anybody while it was happening, I have always asked myself that question, why abused children or teenagers don't say anything. I'm not trying to accuse you of anything!!, I just wonder sometimes, because children do seem to know that it's wrong and that that person is doing something bad to them. I know a lot of fear and pressure and angst is involved. Often the abuser is threatening the child with horrible things and I guess when you are a kid, you don't know how to get 'out of' that situation, but damn it! sometimes even the own mother (or other family members) who know, are willingly 'blind' just for the sake of their marriage or of what others might say.. I'm getting angry at this, although I've never experience anything like it, nor have I (consciously) known anyone to whom it happened.. A deep bow to your other brother who found out (how did he find out?) and stopped it all!

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And again you are so right - being a pedophile has nothing to do with one's sexual orientation (straight or gay) they are simply sexually attracted to children.
Exactly! I hate it when people don't understand that!

As for Ennis, as much as I hate the idea, but I think too, that closing that cupboard at the end of the film, he does seem to acknowledge his deep deep love for Jack, but I don't think he will have moved on from there. He's probably ending up his life in some trailer or other, isolated and alone, with visits from his children and grandchildren from time to time. .. (I'm using present tence, because I think Ennis is still out there somewhere..  :-* )

Big hug to you Barb and David!

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Offline ednbarby

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Re: Another viewing, and a revelation
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2006, 01:10:35 pm »
It's not silly - I'm sure it's hard for many people who've not experienced it themselves to understand why we say nothing.  First, he was a father figure to me.  He was the only one I trusted (before it started happening) - he taught me to ride a two-wheel bike, tie my shoes, cook, and other things my parents should have done.  But my Dad was gone and my Mom was drunk - she started drinking heavily around the time I was five and in kindegarten, and it started happening not long after she became mentally and emotionally unavailable.  Second, he threatened me.  "If you tell anyone, I'll tell Mom you've been stealing from her."  In fact it was he who was stealing from her, but somehow he had me believing he could make her believe it was me and that she would be very angry with me for it.

My other brother caught him in the act.  He seemed to do nothing about it at the time, but I learned only in recent years that in fact he beat the hell out of him and told him if he ever even thought about touching me again, he'd kill him.  I had always just figured it ended because my brother knew the other one knew.

How can we have a decent relationship now?  Well, denial is a very powerful thing.  I'm sure if anyone (even I) confronted him about it, he'd call us liars.  He's also a raging alcoholic and has a lot of trouble with relationships.  His life has always been shite (self-inflicted mostly).  I don't give him any allowances for what he did because of that, but it's not like he's living the life of Riley having been a sexual predator as a kid, either.  As the song goes, I think he takes his pension in loneliness and alcohol.  And there's been my denial as well.  It kept me from telling my husband for 18 years, even though he's the one I trust most in the world and the one who is in fact worthy of that trust.  It made me hate my other brother for years for not actively doing anything about it when in fact he did, but because we never talked about it until two years ago, I didn't know that.

And when I say "decent," I don't mean we're the best of friends.  We're civil to one another and keep each other apprised of events in our family, and he's visited a couple of times with his second wife (hey, I do live in Florida, and it's awfully nice here in February) but that's it.  And the reason that much of a relationship came to be is because he was the one who had to find my mother when she had died of a heart attack alone in her apartment in 1992.  He had quit drinking for a year and was seemingly finally getting his life together, and then that.  He's never recovered from it.  Started drinking again later that same day.  Still won't talk about it.  Has been through two wives since it and is on Number Three.  I hadn't spoken to him at all in about two years when he called me to tell me she had died.  What can I say?  I felt bad for him.  I hate him for what he did, but I love him because he's my brother.  And like it or not, he and my other brother and I know each other as well as anyone can.  I could tell you more stories about our childhood that would make your toenails curl, but I won't inflict any more ugliness on the general populace here.

Sorry if I sound defensive - I don't mean to be.  But I do want people who wonder "Why didn't you do something/tell somebody?" and "How can you get along with him now?" to understand the reasons, and to understand how complicated it becomes when you're talking about a member of your immediate family being the abuser.
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Offline Kelda

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Re: Another viewing, and a revelation
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2006, 05:41:58 pm »
Barb, you couldn't have explained it better if you tried.
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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Another viewing, and a revelation
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2006, 09:18:44 pm »
I am in awe when kids/people DO tell.  It may suck, but if it's the only life the kid knows, they can't help but wonder - what if telling makes life worse? 

And usually, as Barb is describing, that kind of abuse isn't usually an isolated incident in an otherwise Leave it to Beaver life.  Usually there's chaos, fear, distrust, unpredictability that is also going on.  Who ya gonna tell, in that kind of situation?

Offline ednbarby

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Re: Another viewing, and a revelation
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2006, 07:56:13 am »
I am in awe when kids/people DO tell.  It may suck, but if it's the only life the kid knows, they can't help but wonder - what if telling makes life worse? 

And usually, as Barb is describing, that kind of abuse isn't usually an isolated incident in an otherwise Leave it to Beaver life.  Usually there's chaos, fear, distrust, unpredictability that is also going on.  Who ya gonna tell, in that kind of situation?

I do believe you hit the proverbial nail on the head, there.

One time, some good friends and I were having some drinks at a party at their house, and we got talking about our dysfunctional childhoods.  He says, "Let's see which of us had the most dysfunctional childhood - I bet I've got you both beat."  They both come from households where the parents stayed together not because they had to but because they actually loved each other and where money was never a problem.  There was some minor chaos, to my mind, for both of them mostly because they both had several siblings growing up.  So I said, "Well, let's see, now..."  I gave them a little synopsis of A Day in the Life from when I was about seven, not even including my brother's role in it in the least little bit.  Their mouths dropped open and he says, "O-KAY.  You win."
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Offline David

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Re: Another viewing, and a revelation
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2006, 09:24:30 am »
Right back atcha.  Yes, his closing of that closet troubles me greatly, and on this last viewing I had my moment of revelation at that precise point because it is so troubling.  When the screenwriters themselves say that they don't see Ennis getting any further in terms of accepting himself, and in fact see him actually becoming more isolated and more homophobic, and when the creator ends the story with the line, from Ennis' point of view, "But if you can't fix it, you've got to stand it," there's no way to me he would have ever gotten past it.  Everyone is free, of course, to interpret it as they may and wish and hope the best for him, but I don't see him as getting any further as far as accepting himself goes.  I do like to think of him being a doting grandfather, but that is already in his nature, and of trying harder not to let Alma Jr. and Jenny/Francine down, but that's as far as it goes.


Oh I definately think Ennis will make more of an attempt to see the girls.   But I am sure Ennis would never go near another guy like Jack again.    Jacks death only confirmed the fears he has carried all along.   And if it means he must live alone the rest of his life he will.     

Offline isabelle

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Re: Another viewing, and a revelation
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2006, 03:34:41 pm »
Hello Barbara,

I have only just read this thread; I must say that I was on the brink of tears when I read your OP, Barb. Not because I see you as a "poor victim" (although you were a victim), but because I know the weight of things untold, and I got the feeling I could just touch on the depth of pain you must have gone through.
I too know the problem of having an alcoholic parent, and the utter helplessness and fear as a child when you are alone with that parent. At the age you were then, and knowing the situation (somewhat), I am NOT surprised you said nothing. BUT I am so happy for you that you could finally tell your husband.

To continue on the closing shot of BBM, Ennis closing the door of that closet was what started the immense upheaval in me. I do believe he opens up to more "visible" love with his daughter(s), but in no way does he open up to the world about the feelings is once had for an other man. He definitely remains in the closet. I see Ennis as trapped for the rest of his life.

Unlike you, Barb. (I am still grappling with the Ennis within me).

I am so far from Florida... But this big hug will surely reach you over the big pond.  :-*
 
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