the big request for HELP from Russia!

[JackFromMoscow]

Hey everybody!

UPD: Guys, with all these twitters and his 140-simbols messages, maybe these are very big posts. so saving your time, I need help with translation into russian. There are quotes in the second post below, so you could go straight there. Write down the number of quote/quotes you've chosen; short Yes or No would help! Thank you.
P.S. In this very post I'm explaining this unsatisfactory situation about russian varian of BB.

First I want to say how I feel about Brokeback Mountain. Well, in fact, my first time I watched it just turned my whole life upside down! This movie has split my life to before and after it. I just couldn't imagine there is a movie like Brokeback Mountain. I'm serious, I never used to cry watching any movies. But this one... I can't exlain my reaction even to myself!Well, I'm sure there are loads of good words about the movie, so I think I wouldn't say anything new. The fact is, I'm going to record my own version of russian dialogues of the Brokeback Mountain, you know — the voiceover. (By the way, my English is not perfect, sorry for that) I'll explain, why I need this. My opinion is that the russian dubbing is really awful. I'm not saying about its quality or how had the voice actors done, it is pretty good. There's another problem there. It is the translation into Russian.
Of course, any transation just can NOT be really identical to the original. Such things as wordplay, some jokes, and the meanings of somewhat that doesn't exist in other cultures are often just impossible to transalte into other language. And that's a movie we are talking about! If one translates a book, for example, he's got all the pages and words to explain something that doesn't exist in his country, but when translating movie dialogues, there another problem appears: necessity of all the phrases to be the same lenght as they are in original language. Besides, first, russian speech is pretty slower than english's, and second, our words are commonly contain more letters in them.
For example, when Jack is going to ride a bull on the rodeo, Announcer says: "Jack's onboard Sleepy today! Let's hope he's not!" — This nice joke is pretty funny but very hard to translate, 'cause word-to-word translation seems not to sound very good in russian.
So of course Russian version of Brokeback Mountain should be a little different to the original one because of language differences. But there's no forgiveness for those who changes the sence (meaning) of the phrases without any necessity! When I compared russian and english variants of the dialogues, I was just shocked! Our translators just turned almost every word upside down!
I won't write all the disparities down here, believe me, there are loads of them. I'll write down just the one which made me shocked mostly. The last words of the movie:
"Jack... I swear...".
What do you think the russians hear?
Russian variant (translated into English) is: "Jack... I remember you...".
So... Look. Here's "I swear" in Russian: "Я клянусь". When speaking, it sounds just as long as english phrase. Even Я клянусь тебе (I swear to you), which sounds a bit better here, has not the inadmissible lenght for dubbing.
So why, WHY have they done this?! Annie Proulx once said in an interview: "This movie has no ending, in fact: every watcher should end it in his own head for himself" (It's not an accurate quote, of course, and sorry for my poor English again). What does that mean? It means that everyone should find out what exactly does Ennis swears about... just on his own! (I mean, for example, he swears he loves him, or he swears that he's going to spare more time with the darling people (for the moment, I s'pose the last one is quite right)). So those dubbers didn't give an opportunity to the watchers just understand what is this movie really about. And this is really sad. Because it's not the only mistake in russian version.
There are loads of such little missings of sencess such as next one (The last one I'm going to write down, as an example). When Jack and Ennis are doing those preparings to move to Brokeback Mountian, Jack rides a hores which starts to spin and jump. Ennis is telling Jack that he should be more careful riding this horse, and Jack's answer: "Doubt there's a one that could throw me". It means he is sure of his abilyties, he knows he's a good rider. In Russian version Ennis is saying to be careful as well as in english version, but Jack's answer is different: "C'mon, do your preparings faster, or the horse'll throw me". It means, Jack is worried that the horse could really throw him. I don't know, why did they translate this phrase wrong.
That is why I'm going to voice this movie over. And share the recording via torrent trackers, of course.
And I want really good translation. I need help with this.
As you could notice, my English is not as good as I want it to be. So there are many phrases I can't understand without rephrasing.
So I'm just going to write all the phrases I'm not able to understand and you, guys, please, just write it in other words.
Of course, a single person shouldn't help with all the phrases I've written below. I'll be happy if someone would write the number of a phrase and say short "yes" or "no".

[JackFromMoscow]

1) - DONE

Jack: Your folks run you off?
Ennis: No, they run themselves off. There was one curve in the road in 43 miles, and they miss it. So the bank took the ranch and my brother and sister, they raised me, mostly.
Well, guys, I cannot understand just one thing. What on earth could this mean -- "They run themselves off". You know, speaking about Ennis, it sounds like "his parents made him leave the home". But speaking about parents?? I just hope it means they just HAD to leave for some reason. Or, maybe, Ennis talking about their death here? I'm sorry, guys,  I've just been looking for russian translation of this idiom and it seems, ahem, a bit strange, you know. I hope I just misunderstandig this. And I am also not sure about the meaning of "curve" - what exactly is it?. And they missed it - because of bank, isn't it? Isn't it kind of being bankrupt?

2)

Ennis: Well, I don't eat soup. ** You wanna watch it there. That horse has a low startle point.
low startle point - there are two meanings in the dictionary, first is that horse is fearful and second - that she's wild or agressive a bit. Which meaning is the best?

3)

Jack: Let's git, unless you wanna sit around tying knots all day
let's git - in fact, I saw "git" is a kind of bad guy or something, so for sure it's not what I need here. maybe it is dialect form of "get"? Can I translate it as "Be hurry" or "let's do it faster"?

4)

Jack: Shit, that stay with the sheep, no fire bullshit, Aguirre got no right making us do something against the rules.
it means, that all this rules are impossible to follow, doesn't it?

5)

Basque: Too early in the summer to be sick of beans.
I suppose that this phrase (or at least its first part - too early in the summer) is an idiom. Right? Because Basque is kind of sneering there, you know. In Russian version he says, "O-oh, how soft (or, better, delicate) we are." (It's Russian "sneering" thing -- sayings like "Oh how [adjective] we are" and it means "You" instaed We, "We" in such situations adds more sarcasm)

6)

[Ennis shots an elk] Ennis: Getting tired of your dumb-ass missing.
Jack: What? Let's get a move on. Don't want the Game and Fish to catch us with no elk.
I saw that Game and Fish is kind of organisation of Wyoming that controls underlaw hunting. Is that right? so can i translate it like this: organisation controls underlaw hunting? of course, I got a much better russian wording than the one I have quoted, I just need you to understad me. And the second one right here: with no elk. I s'pose that's the dialect form and in fact it means "with this dead elk", right?

7)

Ennis: I mean, what's the point of riding some piece of stock for eight seconds?
 piece of stock. Can I change it into just "a bull"?

Ennis: They did the best they could after my folks was gone
according to the first item, "to be gone" means to be dead in this context, right? Ennis's parents haven't just left their place to somewhere else, have they?

9)

Ennis: Speak for yourself. You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity.
"hadn't had the opportunity". It's not quite clear for me. How would you say it (in) the other way? In Russian version he says "Maybe you're a sinner, but I, being compared to you, am as innocent as a little child".

10)

Ennis: This is a one-shot thing we got going on here.
one-shot thing — may I translate this phrase as a thing that shouldn't happen again?

11)

Jack: (Saying goodbye to Ennis before their 4-iear separation) I might be back. If the Army don't get me.
So that's a good question for sitizens of US. How was it going with army and all at sixties? It was honor to join the army, wasn't it? I mean, here in Russia it is quite okay to avoid employment. And, what is important, we can avoid it only having kind of decease. And, you know, it is quite dangerous to join our army these days. There's big likelyhood of being killed there (not being sent to war but because of dedovshchina here (physical and psychological abuse of new recruits in the army -- term from the dictionary).

12)

Alma: There's a cheap place in Riverton, over the Laundromat. I bet I could fix it up real nice.
Fix up, as I see, means to repair or something; but it's quite strange for a woman to repair broken stuff or even repair the whole house, I mean something like having new furniture, or other maintenance works at one's place. I s'pose Alma talks about making house more comfortable and cosy, you know.

13)

Barman: You ever try calf roping?
Jack: Do I look like I can afford a f*cking roping horse?
I've read something about rodeo, and I found out what exactly is calf roping. But what is Jack talking about? Can't afford? He means, such horses are expensive? If yes, it means that a rider should have his own horse, yeah?

14)

Ennis: Alma, I can't afford not to be there when the heifers calve. Right, it'd be my job if I lose any of them.
"It would be my job if I lose any of them". It's not quite clear for me; in russian version he just says, "I would lose my job if I'm not there now". May I leave it as it is in russian dubbing?

15)

Alma: Hey, Ennis, you know somebody, name of Jack?
Ennis: Maybe around. Why?
"Maybe around". Ennis says this Jack could be someone around their place they live, right?

16)

Postcard: Friend, this letter is long over due. Coming through on the 24th...
Long over due. It means this postcard should have been (or being -- I'm not sure how to use Perfect Passive tenses) written really long ago and in fact it's not very good that it has come in very long four years after their last meeting, right?

17)

Jack: Right next summer, I drove back up to Brokeback...  Went down to Texas for rodeoing. That's how I met Lureen. Made $2,000 that year, bull riding. Nearly starved.
I don't understand this. If Jack had got 2000 dollars that year, why was he starving?

18)

Ennis: And the Army didn't get you?
Jack: No, too busted up. And rodeoing ain't what it was in my daddy's day. Got out while l could still walk.
There are two questions appears. First, as I asked, it seems that employment was obligatory, right? So Jack, having no problems with health, coudn't avoid army. And, second, what exactly does he mean saying that rodeo is not what it was earlier?

19)

Lureen: I thought you were gonna call.
Jack: I complain too much. That teacher don't like me.
Jack complains??? I hope there are different meanings of this word, because the dictionary's one is... well, strange a bit for Jack. Look, for example, children complain often when the other child takes their toys; or adults complain of having bad life not trying to change it. What exactly  is happening between Jack and Bobby's teacher?

20)

Jack: (To L.D., Lureen's father) ...and you are my guest. Now you sit down before I knock your ignorant ass into next week.
May I translate it just like "...before I throw you out of my house"?

21)

Alma: I'm going to yell for Monroe.
Ennis: You do it and I'll make you eat the f*cking floor.
Alma: Get out!
Ennis: And you, too!
It's not clear for me. Maybe my Subtitles are uncorrect, and Ennis says "I'll make HIM eat the f*cking floor" (and, then, "And you, too!", what is more logical)?

22)

Jack: So what we got now is Brokeback Mountain! Everything's built on that! That's all we got, boy. F*cking all. So I hope you know that, if you don't never know the rest!
The last sentence is not understandable for me. It seems for me like that: Jack hopes Ennis realises that they have nothing but BrokebackMountain, but all his Mexico deals are not important, anyway.

23)

Lureen: Well, he said it was his favorite place. I thought he meant to get drunk. He drank a lot.
What exactly does Lureen mean? That she thought Brokeback Mountain was the favourite place of Jack to get drunk?

24)

Jack’s father: ...He had some half-baked notion the two of you was gonna move up here, build a cabin, help run the place.
What exactly is half-baked notion? Some kind of idea, that you want to turn into life, but without proper planning, right?

25)

Jack’s mother: I kept his room * like it was when he was a boy. * I think he appreciated that. * You are welcome to go up to his room, if you want.
Well, guys. I have no any translation difficulties here. But I don't understand, what exactly Jack's mom means. "Like it was, when he was a boy"?? But wait a minute, Jack has visited them a couple months ago, and anyway, he's got their shirts there in his room -- and he wasn't BOY already, when he came down from Brokeback -- I mean, maybe she means that she never changed anything in his room ever?

26)

Alma Jr: Daddy, you need more furniture.
Ennis: Yeah, well, if you got nothing, you don't need nothing.
In Russian version Ennis says: "If you got nothing, you have nothing to lose". May I leave it like it is in dubbing? It sounds even better, for my opinion.

Oh, Jeez, guys. It takes really much time. I'm having really big work here. Tired very much. And speaking English is hard a bit for my brains =)
I hope that's it, but if there appears more questions, I'll write 'em down.
I really appreciate your help!

[Front-Ranger]

Dear Jack from Moscow,
Awesome! that you're working to get a real translation of the movie!! Of course, we're glad to help! Ask away!

But first, want a cup of coffee, don't ya? Piece a cherry cake? 

[JackFromMoscow]

But first, want a cup of coffee, don't ya? Piece a cherry cake? 

Oh, you know. A coffee would be great, but cake... I can't eat it just right now.
I would have a piece but only after ending my translation work 

[Front-Ranger]

Excellent, JfM!

So, regarding your first question:

Jack: Your folks run you off?
Ennis: No, they run themselves off. There was one curve in the road in 43 miles, and they miss it. So the bank took the ranch and my brother and sister, they raised me, mostly.
Well, guys, I cannot understand just one thing. What on earth could this mean -- "They run themselves off". You know, speaking about Ennis, it sounds like "his parents made him leave the home". But speaking about parents?? I just hope it means they just HAD to leave for some reason. Or, maybe, Ennis talking about their death here? I'm sorry, guys,  I've just been looking for russian translation of this idiom and it seems, ahem, a bit strange, you know. I hope I just misunderstandig this. And I am also not sure about the meaning of "curve" - what exactly is it?. And they missed it - because of bank, isn't it? Isn't it kind of being bankrupt?

It was common for poor rural people to make their children leave home as soon as they were grown enough to make their own way in the world. This was sometimes called "to run you off" as if to chase a child off the property. But, in the case of Ennis's parents, they "ran themselves off" by killing themselves in a car accident, presumably by missing a "curve" or bend in the road. With the breadwinners/mortgage-holders gone, the "bank took the ranch"--repossessed it.

[JackFromMoscow]

Excellent, JfM!

So, regarding your first question:
It was common for poor rural people to make their children leave home as soon as they were grown enough to make their own way in the world. This was sometimes called "to run you off" as if to chase a child off the property. But, in the case of Ennis's parents, they "ran themselves off" by killing themselves in a car accident, presumably by missing a "curve" or bend in the road. With the breadwinners/mortgage-holders gone, the "bank took the ranch"--repossessed it.

Oh thank you very much. Now I understood the meaning of "to miss the curve". There's no a single word about it in Russian dubbing. Ennis is just saying that the place he and his parents lived in, was empty and there was no soul on the nearest 40 miles.

[southendmd]

Howdy, Jack!  (Nice name, by the way.) Ambitious project you got goin' here.  

I'm sure many of us would be happy to help out.  Be careful, we may not all agree!

1)

Jack: Your folks run you off?
Ennis: No, they run themselves off. There was one curve in the road in 43 miles, and they miss it. So the bank took the ranch and my brother and sister, they raised me, mostly.
Well, guys, I cannot understand just one thing. What on earth could this mean -- "They run themselves off". You know, speaking about Ennis, it sounds like "his parents made him leave the home". But speaking about parents?? I just hope it means they just HAD to leave for some reason. Or, maybe, Ennis talking about their death here? I'm sorry, guys,  I've just been looking for russian translation of this idiom and it seems, ahem, a bit strange, you know. I hope I just misunderstandig this. And I am also not sure about the meaning of "curve" - what exactly is it?. And they missed it - because of bank, isn't it? Isn't it kind of being bankrupt?

Ennis is using a play on words.  "They run themselves off" means both 1) they left home; and 2)they literally ran off the road, missed the literal curve in the road, and died. It implies that the road was very straight, except for one bend.  

More to come,
southendmd/Paul

[southendmd]

2)

Ennis: Well, I don't eat soup. ** You wanna watch it there. That horse has a low startle point.
low startle point - there are two meanings in the dictionary, first is that horse is fearful and second - that she's wild or agressive a bit. Which meaning is the best?

I would say "low startle point" means a bit of both: it wouldn't take much to frighten her, and she could easily become aggressive (throw Jack).

3)

Jack: Let's git, unless you wanna sit around tying knots all day
let's git - in fact, I saw "git" is a kind of bad guy or something, so for sure it's not what I need here. maybe it is dialect form of "get"? Can I translate it as "Be hurry" or "let's do it faster"?

Yes, "git" is dialect for "get". So, you could say, "let's hurry".  

4)

Jack: Shit, that stay with the sheep, no fire bullshit, Aguirre got no right making us do something against the rules.
it means, that all this rules are impossible to follow, doesn't it?

It means that Aguirre's orders (pitching a tent up with the sheep) are technically illegal.  Not impossible, but maybe uncomfortable (sleeping without a fire so he doesn't get caught).

5)

Basque: Too early in the summer to be sick of beans.
I suppose that this phrase (or at least its first part - too early in the summer) is an idiom. Right? Because Basque is kind of sneering there, you know. In Russian version he says, "O-oh, how soft (or, better, delicate) we are." (It's Russian "sneering" thing -- sayings like "Oh how [adjective] we are" and it means "You" instaed We, "We" in such situations adds more sarcasm)

Yes, it's sarcastic, but the Basque is referring to "them/you".  Too early in the summer FOR YOU to be sick of beans.
The Basque is responding to Ennis's request for soup; he says to Ennis, "I thought you didn't like soup".  Ennis then makes an excuse: "I'm sick of beans"; (of course it's Jack who is sick of beans).  "Too early in the summer" is I think also literal:  he's saying that beans are cheap and you'll likely get more, because I'm not bringing you beefsteak!
There is also the "sneer" of don't be so fussy. 

6)

[Ennis shots an elk] Ennis: Getting tired of your dumb-ass missing.
Jack: What? Let's get a move on. Don't want the Game and Fish to catch us with no elk.
I saw that Game and Fish is kind of organisation of Wyoming that controls underlaw hunting. Is that right? so can i translate it like this: organisation controls underlaw hunting? of course, I got a much better russian wording than the one I have quoted, I just need you to understad me. And the second one right here: with no elk. I s'pose that's the dialect form and in fact it means "with this dead elk", right?

Yes, Game and Fish is the authority controlling hunting.  Underlaw?  Do you mean outlaw, illegal?
Yes, "with no elk" is dialect for "we don't want G&F to catch us with an elk", meaning this, dead, illegally hunted elk.

7)

Ennis: I mean, what's the point of riding some piece of stock for eight seconds?
 piece of stock. Can I change it into just "a bull"?

Yes.

[southendmd]

8 )  Haha.  8 plus ) comes out

Ennis: They did the best they could after my folks was gone
according to the first item, "to be gone" means to be dead in this context, right? Ennis's parents haven't just left their place to somewhere else, have they?

Yes, "was gone" here means "after my folks were dead".  

9)

Ennis: Speak for yourself. You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity.
"hadn't had the opportunity". It's not quite clear for me. How would you say it (in) the other way? In Russian version he says "Maybe you're a sinner, but I, being compared to you, am as innocent as a little child".

"as innocent as a little child" sounds very funny to me!  "Ain't yet had the opportunity" means "I have not had the chance to sin like you have".  Presumably they're talking about sex and Ennis is telling Jack he is a virgin.

10)

Ennis: This is a one-shot thing we got going on here.
one-shot thing — may I translate this phrase as a thing that shouldn't happen again?

This one is a bit controversial.  "One-shot thing" means "once only", "one time only".  
However, it's not clear that he is saying "it shouldn't happen again".  The rest of the sentence, "we got going on here" implies that it might keep on happening. He's using the present tense.  (Not "a one-shot thing we did".)  To me, the "one-shot thing" refers to the whole arrangement this summer.

11)

Jack: (Saying goodbye to Ennis before their 4-iear separation) I might be back. If the Army don't get me.
So that's a good question for sitizens of US. How was it going with army and all at sixties? It was honor to join the army, wasn't it? I mean, here in Russia it is quite okay to avoid employment. And, what is important, we can avoid it only having kind of decease. And, you know, it is quite dangerous to join our army these days. There's big likelyhood of being killed there (not being sent to war but because of dedovshchina here (physical and psychological abuse of new recruits in the army -- term from the dictionary).

Oh boy.  The Vietnam war was very controversial, even as early as 1963.  I'm sure some men thought it was an honor to join the military, but not to "avoid employment".  However, Jack is talking about the draft/conscription, when he refers to the army "getting" him.  Many men of the time wanted to avoid getting drafted; the fear of getting killed in Vietnam was high.  And many people were strongly against the war. 

[southendmd]

12)

Alma: There's a cheap place in Riverton, over the Laundromat. I bet I could fix it up real nice.
Fix up, as I see, means to repair or something; but it's quite strange for a woman to repair broken stuff or even repair the whole house, I mean something like having new furniture, or other maintenance works at one's place. I s'pose Alma talks about making house more comfortable and cosy, you know.

Yes.  "Fix it up" here means to decorate the house to make it comfortable and cozy, as you say.  

13)

Barman: You ever try calf roping?
Jack: Do I look like I can afford a f*cking roping horse?
I've read something about rodeo, and I found out what exactly is calf roping. But what is Jack talking about? Can't afford? He means, such horses are expensive? If yes, it means that a rider should have his own horse, yeah?

I think you're right.  (I don't know that much about rodeo-ing.)  I suppose calf roping requires a lot of training and bonding between the rider and his horse.  

14)

Ennis: Alma, I can't afford not to be there when the heifers calve. Right, it'd be my job if I lose any of them.
"It would be my job if I lose any of them". It's not quite clear for me; in russian version he just says, "I would lose my job if I'm not there now". May I leave it as it is in russian dubbing?

Sounds good.  "It would be my job" means "I would lose my job".  "If I lose any of them" refers to losing the heifers and/or calves, if he were not there now.

15)

Alma: Hey, Ennis, you know somebody, name of Jack?
Ennis: Maybe around. Why?
"Maybe around". Ennis says this Jack could be someone around their place they live, right?

First of all, Story to Screenplay has Ennis's line as: "I might.  Why?"  Not sure where "maybe around" came from?
However, "maybe around" is a vague answer that also means "I might" know someone named Jack, from around somewhere in his life, not necessarily around their place.  

More later.  This is fun!

[southendmd]

16)

Postcard: Friend, this letter is long over due. Coming through on the 24th...
Long over due. It means this postcard should have been (or being -- I'm not sure how to use Perfect Passive tenses) written really long ago and in fact it's not very good that it has come in very long four years after their last meeting, right?

Yes.  

17)

Jack: Right next summer, I drove back up to Brokeback...  Went down to Texas for rodeoing. That's how I met Lureen. Made $2,000 that year, bull riding. Nearly starved.
I don't understand this. If Jack had got 2000 dollars that year, why was he starving?

$2000 per year in 1963 was not a lot of money.  Google tells me that is equivalent to about $15000 a year today, not quite poverty level, but still pretty low.  (In the story, Jack says he had to borrow everything from other guys except a toothbrush.)

18)

Ennis: And the Army didn't get you?
Jack: No, too busted up. And rodeoing ain't what it was in my daddy's day. Got out while l could still walk.
There are two questions appears. First, as I asked, it seems that employment was obligatory, right? So Jack, having no problems with health, coudn't avoid army. And, second, what exactly does he mean saying that rodeo is not what it was earlier?

1) Conscription into the army has nothing to do with employment.  Employment was never "obligatory"; you work to eat.  You don't work, you don't eat.  The army certainly conscripted men with jobs.  (Some jobs may have allowed one to avoid the army, such as clergy, I believe.) However, here Jack is saying that he didn't get drafted/conscripted by the army because he DID have heatlh problems, that is, injuries from the rodeo, "too busted up".  

2) Here, I think Jack refers to rodeoing becoming more challenging physically.  In the story, Jack mentions that "now" there are trained athletes competing in the rodeo, when back in his daddy's day probably anyone could rodeo.

19)

Lureen: I thought you were gonna call.
Jack: I complain too much. That teacher don't like me.
Jack complains??? I hope there are different meanings of this word, because the dictionary's one is... well, strange a bit for Jack. Look, for example, children complain often when the other child takes their toys; or adults complain of having bad life not trying to change it. What exactly  is happening between Jack and Bobby's teacher?

To complain is to argue that something is wrong or to express displeasure.  Jack had probably expressed his displeasure to the teacher that Bobby was having a lot of trouble learning in school.  In the story, Jack says Bobby couldn't get anything right, must be dyslexic or something.

20)

Jack: (To L.D., Lureen's father) ...and you are my guest. Now you sit down before I knock your ignorant ass into next week.
May I translate it just like "...before I throw you out of my house"?

Good translation!

21)

Alma: I'm going to yell for Monroe.
Ennis: You do it and I'll make you eat the f*cking floor.
Alma: Get out!
Ennis: And you, too!
It's not clear for me. Maybe my Subtitles are uncorrect, and Ennis says "I'll make HIM eat the f*cking floor" (and, then, "And you, too!", what is more logical)?

My screenplay reads this way:
Alma: I'm goin' to yell for Monroe.
Ennis:  Go on and f*ckin' yell.  I'll make him eat the f*ckin' floor and you, too.

[southendmd]

22)

Jack: So what we got now is Brokeback Mountain! Everything's built on that! That's all we got, boy. F*cking all. So I hope you know that, if you don't never know the rest!
The last sentence is not understandable for me. It seems for me like that: Jack hopes Ennis realises that they have nothing but BrokebackMountain, but all his Mexico deals are not important, anyway.

That's a tough one.  In context, Jack had just said that they could have had a good life together, but Ennis didn't want it.  Then he says, so all we got now is BBM, etc.  "So I hope you know that, if you don't never know the rest" is a bit vague, but I think "the rest" doesn't refer just to Mexico, but maybe all of Jack's hopes for the two of them. 
Other people may have different thoughts about this sentence.

23)

Lureen: Well, he said it was his favorite place. I thought he meant to get drunk. He drank a lot.
What exactly does Lureen mean? That she thought Brokeback Mountain was the favourite place of Jack to get drunk?

Yes.  "I thought he meant (his favorite place) to get drunk (was there)."

24)

Jack’s father: ...He had some half-baked notion the two of you was gonna move up here, build a cabin, help run the place.
What exactly is half-baked notion? Some kind of idea, that you want to turn into life, but without proper planning, right?

Yes.  A partly processed idea. 

25)

Jack’s mother: I kept his room * like it was when he was a boy. * I think he appreciated that. * You are welcome to go up to his room, if you want.
Well, guys. I have no any translation difficulties here. But I don't understand, what exactly Jack's mom means. "Like it was, when he was a boy"?? But wait a minute, Jack has visited them a couple months ago, and anyway, he's got their shirts there in his room -- and he wasn't BOY already, when he came down from Brokeback -- I mean, maybe she means that she never changed anything in his room ever?

Yes, she never changed anything in his room.  Never moved his childhood things, etc.

26)

Alma Jr: Daddy, you need more furniture.
Ennis: Yeah, well, if you got nothing, you don't need nothing.
In Russian version Ennis says: "If you got nothing, you have nothing to lose". May I leave it like it is in dubbing? It sounds even better, for my opinion.

It's maybe not exactly the same, but it sounds good to me.

[southendmd]

Sorry, Jack, I gave more than just a Yes/No response to your questions.  But, I love talking about our beloved film. 

I have a question for you:  How is "Jack Nasty" translated in Russian?  In French, the subtitles say "Jack contre la nature (Jack against nature)" and in German, they say "Jack das Schwein (Jack the pig)".  It seems translators have taken a lot of liberty with this one. 

[JackFromMoscow]

Sorry, Jack, I gave more than just a Yes/No response to your questions.  But, I love talking about our beloved film.  

I have a question for you:  How is "Jack Nasty" translated in Russian?  In French, the subtitles say "Jack contre la nature (Jack against nature)" and in German, they say "Jack das Schwein (Jack the pig)".  It seems translators have taken a lot of liberty with this one.  

Oh - my - God. I can't just find any words to thank you! I mean, THANK YOU SO MUCH!
Now I understand all those moments. And, lol, I dunno what to start with.
Anyway, I finally can finish up my work with dialogues. And translate 'em properly.
There are some extra moments I would like to talk about, but I'll write them later.
And I meant that just short Yes or No would help me and I would be glad of it. But you have done really big job! THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH!

Sure I'll explain our variant of "Jack Nasty".
There's a russian word Урод [ur'od]. And saying shortly, its translation is freak. This russian word has meaning (in the first place) of kind of ugly person, with some deviations of his appearance. But we here in Russia use this word so often when want to offend someone, so we almost never think about any deviations of appearance. So it just means "a really bad guy". It is really offensive.
But freak is the most adecvate translation back to English!

So there's one more moment. Here in Russia such names as "Jack F*cking Twist" are understandable only for those who learn English. I mean, word-to-word translation cannot sound properly good. We never say like that; we use such constructions: "F*cking Jack Twist". I mean, if we want to characterize someone, we never place an adjective between First and Last names; only before both of them. F*cking Jack Twist is only variant that sounds good in Russia.
So I s'pose Alma's full phrase was: Jack Nasty Twist, wasn't it? I mean, if she wanted to say it some other way, she had to use verb "to be": Jack IS nasty.
Anyway, that is why russian dubbing sounds like insulting: Alma says, Jack is a freak.
Here she says: "Джек (Jack) — Урод (Freak)". These TWO words actually mean english THREE words — but we have no verb "to be". So the meaning is equal.

If there are any more questions about Russian BB, I would be glad to answer to you! =)

[JackFromMoscow]

Here's some extra information:

Just right now it is already Monday here, and time is about 1:50 after midnight.
And I gotta work tomorrow (in fact, today already). so thank you very much again!

I really like that our -- yes! -- beloved Brokeback Mountain connect people all around the world! =)

[southendmd]

You're very welcome, Jack.  It's been a nice way to spend a Sunday afternoon.  

Like I said, other BetterMostians may have different opinions on some of your questions.  

And, I'd be glad to answer others that you may have.

Thanks for the Jack Nasty/Jack (is a) Freak response.  It's very interesting to me how different languages handle this one.  When Alma says it in English, she really is changing his last name from Twist to Nasty.  "Jack Twist?  Jack Nasty!"

As for JFT, it's not really a typical construction in English, either.  It sounds as if "F*cking" is Jack's middle name.  There is another sort of common phrase:  "Jesus H. Christ" that people use as an exclamation (is the H. for Holy?  I don't know).  Maybe that's where Annie got it from.  

[southendmd]

Here's some extra information:

Just right now it is already Monday here, and time is about 1:50 after midnight.
And I gotta work tomorrow (in fact, today already). so thank you very much again!

I really like that our -- yes! -- beloved Brokeback Mountain connect people all around the world! =)

You bet, Jack!

Spokoynoy Nochi!

[southendmd]

[dontinterrupt]

18)
(JackfromMoscow wrote:
Ennis: And the Army didn't get you?
Jack: No, too busted up. And rodeoing ain't what it was in my daddy's day. Got out while l could still walk.
There are two questions appears. First, as I asked, it seems that employment was obligatory, right? So Jack, having no problems with health, coudn't avoid army. And, second, what exactly does he mean saying that rodeo is not what it was earlier?)


1) Conscription into the army has nothing to do with employment.  Employment was never "obligatory"; you work to eat.  You don't work, you don't eat.  The army certainly conscripted men with jobs.  (Some jobs may have allowed one to avoid the army, such as clergy, I believe.) However, here Jack is saying that he didn't get drafted/conscripted by the army because he DID have heatlh problems, that is, injuries from the rodeo, "too busted up".  

2) Here, I think Jack refers to rodeoing becoming more challenging physically.  In the story, Jack mentions that "now" there are trained athletes competing in the rodeo, when back in his daddy's day probably anyone could rodeo.

Southendmd, I can't fully agree with this one. First off, I think JFM when he says 'employment' means 'conscription/ being drafted', as in signing up for army. And frankly, I don't know if it was obligatory in the US at that time, I can suppose it was seeing as Jack said "if the army don't get me" back in '63, meaning they were probably recruiting everyone of age at that time. And also, JFM, you said " So Jack, having no problems with health, coudn't avoid army" - that's exactly what he means by "No, too busted up" - that he was not physically fit to join the army, because of rodeoing. In the original story, Jack then goes on to describe his injuries. Hope that cleared that one up for you.
As to your second question, by "rodeo ain't what it was in my daddy's day", Jack means (it's my own interpretation) that now it is all about money and athletic training. I think that's what he means because, to quote the original story: "See, it ain’t like it was in my daddy’s time. It’s guys with money go to college, trained athaletes. You got a have some money to rodeo now" (copyright: Annie Proulx).

I'm gonna look through all these again and I'll try to come up with some more answers for your translation project queries. I hope I can be of some help for you, because I'm a brit-polish and I think Polish is much more similar to Russian so I get exactly why you would be confused with some of the idioms etc etc

[JackFromMoscow]

I really appreciate that my topic has made the whole discussion!
And I'm very sorry, as I said, my English is poor and I need some words from your messages to translate. It takes much time.
So this topic is another big job for me. Because I want to understand every word of BB.

Speaking of army, it seems I've chosen not a good word -- employment. Look, what I wanted to say.

How is it in Russia. When you become 18 years old, you have to join our army. It is just one year you should be there. You can avoid it (not join) only having problems with health. So, as I said earlier, it's quite dangerous here to join the Army these days -- I'm not about being sent to war, but danger is all what happening there. So there are a lot of guys who just afraid to join it; and a lot of mothers who don't want their sons join it. We have very widespreaded corruption here, so you can just pay some money (about 3000$ as I know) to "get" a decease.
So I just want to know, how was it in US in 1963. In fact, I just need Ennis's phrase to say in Russian:

Are you going to join the army, Jack, voluntarily/of one's own accord/of one's own free will (these are from dictionary for better understanding)
OR
What about army? Won't it get you?

So the point is, does Jack want to join or he has to join.
I hope I make it clear.
It's terrible having such — maybe, not really bad, — but slooooooooow English.

P.S. For you to know, this post took 25 minutes.

[dontinterrupt]

JFM, I think you are doing much better than you think! And your dedication to the movie is really admirable, because it is an extremely challenging task to translate something so culturally-defined to another language with a whole different culture and for it to still make sense and retain its meaning and powerfulness! Any questions you got, you keem 'em coming, it's really interesting to see how people of different nationalities interpret the same phrases differently.

Btw, I watched BBM with Polish subs once and I gotta say the poles did a very good job oh, and in Polish ver Jack Nasty = Jack Zboczeniec (zboczeniec= pervert, it's a very strong word), I liked this one more than the original even 

[dontinterrupt]

Oh, and just a thought, with regards to conscription in the US in 1963. If I recall correctly, the US Army had the 'Conscientious objector' programme at that time, meaning that one could refuse being drafted on the basis that he is sincerely against war in any form. But I think being openly a conscientious objector then was just as infamous as being queer. Food for thought I guess

[Monika]

I really appreciate that my topic has made the whole discussion!
And I'm very sorry, as I said, my English is poor and I need some words from your messages to translate. It takes much time.
So this topic is another big job for me. Because I want to understand every word of BB.

Speaking of army, it seems I've chosen not a good word -- employment. Look, what I wanted to say.

How is it in Russia. When you become 18 years old, you have to join our army. It is just one year you should be there. You can avoid it (not join) only having problems with health. So, as I said earlier, it's quite dangerous here to join the Army these days -- I'm not about being sent to war, but danger is all what happening there. So there are a lot of guys who just afraid to join it; and a lot of mothers who don't want their sons join it. We have very widespreaded corruption here, so you can just pay some money (about 3000$ as I know) to "get" a decease.
So I just want to know, how was it in US in 1963. In fact, I just need Ennis's phrase to say in Russian:

Are you going to join the army, Jack, voluntarily/of one's own accord/of one's own free will (these are from dictionary for better understanding)
OR
What about army? Won't it get you?

So the point is, does Jack want to join or he has to join.
I hope I make it clear.
It's terrible having such — maybe, not really bad, — but slooooooooow English.

P.S. For you to know, this post took 25 minutes.

It's good to have you here, thanks for taking the time and effort to communicate with us!
I'm Swedish, don't speak a word of Russian I'm afraid.

[southendmd]

Thanks for clarifying, dontinterrupt.  I see the confusion with the word 'employment.'

There is no obligatory military service in the US, like in Russia, Israel and other countries. Military service is voluntary, but in the Vietnam era, there was the draft.  However, the draft was random, as there was a lottery that "ranked" people by random birthdays.  If your birthday was high on the list, you'd likely be drafted.  But, if your birthday was low on the list, you might never be drafted. 

So, Ennis is asking "And the army didn't get you?" to mean "So you weren't drafted?"  And then Jack explains his rodeo injuries that would have prevented him from getting drafted.  (As an aside, I miss Ennis saying "sure seem in one piece to me".)

[southendmd]

Btw, I watched BBM with Polish subs once and I gotta say the poles did a very good job oh, and in Polish ver Jack Nasty = Jack Zboczeniec (zboczeniec= pervert, it's a very strong word), I liked this one more than the original even 

Thanks, dontinterrupt!  I'll add Jack Zboczeniec to my collection.

[Front-Ranger]

Great translation help, southendmd!! I'm learning, and remembering a lot, too!

[JackFromMoscow]

Hey everybody again! Hope the past days were nice for you.
I gotta some more moments I don't understand. Here they are.

4)

Jack: Shit, that stay with the sheep, no fire bullshit, Aguirre got no right making us do something against the rules.

Right here I can't understand this very part of the phrase: "Aguirre got no right making us do something against the rules".
I suppose that he uses doble negation here, and it makes more difficult for me. Well, I could understand, if he'd say something like "He got no right to make us follow all these rules". If my variant is equal to the original, it would be very good.
P.S. By the way, speaking Russian language, you pretty often need to to use doble negation: such phrases as Lureen's "Husbands don't never seem to wanna dance with their wives" — well, there's no other way to say it without "don't never". So it seemed difficult for me to get used to English's single negation, and now what I see? I see double negation here so it often confused me.

10)

Ennis: This is a one-shot thing we got going on here.

This one is a bit controversial.  "One-shot thing" means "once only", "one time only".  
However, it's not clear that he is saying "it shouldn't happen again".  The rest of the sentence, "we got going on here" implies that it might keep on happening. He's using the present tense.  (Not "a one-shot thing we did".)  To me, the "one-shot thing" refers to the whole arrangement this summer.

Oh boy. This is a theme for another topic here It became even more unclear now, but for sure I understood the phrase, — I'll have to conversate about it on Russian forum of BB, how to translate this.

10a)

Aquirre: There's not much you can do about it down there, neither. Unless you can cure pneumonia.

Well, his tone and face expression make it seem that the reason why he says such strange phrase is what he have seen that day. What does he really imply (has in his mind)? Is it related somehow to the fact he've seen their "stem the rose" stuff? Russian version doesn't make it clear at all: "There's nothing you can do down there, if you're not a wizard". When I saw this first time, I thought: "wtf is he talking about?? a wizard??" it's quite weird in Russian.

13a) There's a Biker in the scene of the Independence day, saying: "There are so many pussies here ready to be humped like a frog". Oh Jeez, I hate translating their speech (of these Bikers), but I can't solve the problem avoiding it. So guys, would you please tell me if I may translate the last part of the upper phrase like this: "...pussies ready to be f*cked"?

21a)

Lashawn: Our husbands aren't interested in dancing. They ain't got a smidgen of rhythm between 'em

I've written it with bold type, the part I cannot understand. What exactly does Lashawn mean here?
P.S. Her name is a nightmare for Russian translators I mean, we know there are such American names like Jack, Kate or Alex. They are quite easy to pronounce. But Lashawn... This name doesn't sound good here, 'cause we have no diphthongs in Russian language and combination of letters such as "Lash" is pretty extraordinary for russian pronunsiation.

21c)

Jack: ...as far as our marriage goes, we could do it over the phone.

What exactly does he mean here? May I rephrase it into "Recently we could speak by the phone only" so that would mean that they are getting far from each other, their meetings became rare, etc?

21f)

Ennis: It was hard enough getting this time. The trade-off was August.

What is the trade-off Ennis is talking about? Maybe, he's saying here, the August of theprevious year was trade-off?

Oh.

But first, want a cup of coffee, don't ya? Piece a cherry cake?

Oh, you know. A coffee would be great, but cake... I can't eat it just right now.
I would have a piece but only after ending my translation work  

My cherry cake is going to be covered with mold.

[Front-Ranger]

Right here I can't understand this very part of the phrase: "Aguirre got no right making us do something against the rules".
I suppose that he uses doble negation here, and it makes more difficult for me. Well, I could understand, if he'd say something like "He got no right to make us follow all these rules". If my variant is equal to the original, it would be very good.

Jack is saying that Aguirre should not make them go against the rules. The forestry service makes shepherds camp in allotted places, but Aguirre wants Jack to set up an additional tent (just a pup tent, but a tent nevertheless) near where the sheep are grazing in order to protect them at night. He wants them to roll up the tent every morning and be on the "QT" (quiet time) so Forestry doesn't figure out that there's an extra tent site.

[JackFromMoscow]

Thank you very much, Front-Ranger, for the explanations. Now I understand Jack is just talking about the Forestry rules, not Aquirre's ones. But I can understand Aguirre in this situation pretty good; he just doesn't want his sheep to be eaten by coyotes, so it is pretty logical to send a herder up there. So why would Forestry forbid any extra tents in such situations? Maybe Aguirre had to pay more for extra tent?

[southendmd]

Hi Jack!  Let's have at it!

10a
Aquirre: There's not much you can do about it down there, neither. Unless you can cure pneumonia.

Well, his tone and face expression make it seem that the reason why he says such strange phrase is what he have seen that day. What does he really imply (has in his mind)? Is it related somehow to the fact he've seen their "stem the rose" stuff? Russian version doesn't make it clear at all: "There's nothing you can do down there, if you're not a wizard". When I saw this first time, I thought: "wtf is he talking about?? a wizard??" it's quite weird in Russian.

I have to agree that it's a weird exchange. Certainly it's about the futility of being far away from everyday life.  But, the "unless you can cure pneumonia" sounds strange.  It's also about being helpless:  your uncle is dying, there's nothing you can do here or down there. Of course Jack cannot cure pneumonia (only a wizard can???), meaning he has to stay on the mountain, he is no use to Uncle Harold.  I'm not sure it has to do with the "stem the rose" at all.  

 But also how strange that Ma Twist contacted Aguirre to tell Jack.  While it's nice that Aguirre went to the trouble to tell Jack about Uncle Harold's illness, Aguirre never dismounts from his horse, which is considered very disrespectful.  

So, JackFromMoscow, I am also puzzled by this scene.  Anybody else have thoughts?

(Not to even mention the famous "disappearing log".)

[southendmd]

13a) There's a Biker in the scene of the Independence day, saying: "There are so many pussies here ready to be humped like a frog". Oh Jeez, I hate translating their speech (of these Bikers), but I can't solve the problem avoiding it. So guys, would you please tell me if I may translate the last part of the upper phrase like this: "...pussies ready to be f*cked"?

Yes. 

[southendmd]

21a)

Lashawn: Our husbands aren't interested in dancing. They ain't got a smidgen of rhythm between 'em
I've written it with bold type, the part I cannot understand. What exactly does Lashawn mean here?
P.S. Her name is a nightmare for Russian translators Cheesy I mean, we know there are such American names like Jack, Kate or Alex. They are quite easy to pronounce. But Lashawn... This name doesn't sound good here, 'cause we have no diphthongs in Russian language and combination of letters such as "Lash" is pretty extraordinary for russian pronunsiation.

It's another double negative.  She's saying:  our husbands have no sense of rhythm.  Meaning,  they cannot dance.  "Smidgen" means a little bit. 

Lashawn sounds funny in English too.  Like it's a made-up name. 

[southendmd]

21c)

Jack: ...as far as our marriage goes, we could do it over the phone.
What exactly does he mean here? May I rephrase it into "Recently we could speak by the phone only" so that would mean that they are getting far from each other, their meetings became rare, etc?

It's an idiom that means:  our marriage has become boring and predictable.  "To do it over the phone" doesn't literally mean to speak on the phone, rather it means that we have become boring and predictable, such that we could act out our marriage remotely, we don't even have to be together, it's automatic. 

[southendmd]

21f)

Ennis: It was hard enough getting this time. The trade-off was August.
What is the trade-off Ennis is talking about? Maybe, he's saying here, the August of theprevious year was trade-off?

No, Ennis is saying that it was difficult enough to get time off now (probably May).  He's saying he can't see Jack in August, because he has already taken too much time off from work, and cannot see Jack until November. 

So, the "trade-off" means he has traded time off now (May), and August cannot happen.  (I don't think it means the previous year at all.)

[JackFromMoscow]

Jack: ...as far as our marriage goes, we could do it over the phone.

It's an idiom... <...>

Oh boy! Thank you so much for making it clear for me. I would never know it's an idiom, because even Russian dubbers translated it in the word-to-word way. Russian official dubbing is not just turning the whole phrases upside down, it contains even idiom mistakes as well. In our version Jack says in the scene that he and his wife talked to each other by the phone recently. Great.

Ennis: It was hard enough getting this time. The trade-off was August.

...the "trade-off" means he has traded time off now (May), and August cannot happen.

So my variant of his phrase would be like this:
It was hard enough getting this time. (probably May) So there's nothing to say about August. (Nothing to say about something — in Russian language it means that the something is certainly not going to happen in any case — just want you to feel the sense I put in the phrase)
I suppose it would sound good.

By the way, Paul, it seems for me that when we were talking about our variant of Jack Nasty, I didn't make it pretty clear.
so there's what exactly Alma says:

Джек — урод.

we got funny letters here, I know the dash is nesessary.
Thank you very-very much for help!

My translation seems to be the most exact one. But it wouldn't ever be without your help, guys. I really cannot find any words to thank you properly.



P.S. I haven't found a way to preset the image's size... but I pretty like that Ennis's smile takes the whole screen to be viewed.

[southendmd]

P.S. I haven't wound a way to preset the image's size... but I pretty like that Ennis's smile takes the whole screen to be viewed.

I also like an endless Ennis smile. However, if you want to make it smaller, simply add [img width= whatever number you want] and this will limit the photo size.

As I have said, I am very happy to discuss our great film in detail.  So, ask away! 

[southendmd]

Джек — урод.

Jack Nasty! 

[southendmd]

^^^^^^^^^^That's my friend Lisa.  We're going to New York next weekend to see Jake in his Broadway play "Constellations". 
Lisa has met him SEVERAL times, but I have only met him once.  He was lovely.  And his eyes are REALLY BLUE. 

[JackFromMoscow]

Hey everybody again! I hope that's my last translation ride.

Paul, have you seen Jake's Broadway play? How was it?

There's not much I don't understand for now, and the text is almost completed.

1) Jack: No more beans.
Shortly speaking, it is Jack asking Ennis not to cook those beans on the supper this evening, right? He asks and then he rides back to the sheep.

2) Ennis: I wouldn't mind sleeping out there.
Jack: That ain't the point. The point is, we both ought to be in this camp.
This camp -- he's talking about the legal main camp where Ennis is, is that right? Why, they're not ought to be there both, one of them should be up there with the sheep, right? And I still can't figure out, why Aguirre makes Jack sleep with the sheep illegally. I mean, why is it illegal? Had Aguirre had to pay more for extra tents, or something? I repeat once more, it's pretty logical to send a herder up there to watch the sheep not to be eaten by coyotes.

3) About the pneumonia again -- I have no translation problems, but is there anyone who could explain why does Aguirre using such strange phrase? Is it sure enough he doesn't imply anything hidden? What exactly has he got in his mind?

4) Jack: [Aguirre] says there's a storm coming, moving in from the Pacific. Worse than this one.
Ennis: That snow barely stuck an hour. Huh?

It sounds like Ennis make his phrase an counter-evidence. But what on Earth could be the correlation between snow and a storm? I mean, it seems like Ennis's saying that if the snow disappear, the storm wouldn't come. We seldom have storms with snow in Moscow here, so maybe I just don't know there IS a correlation

5) There is a moment that seems interesting to me.
Ennis: Is Alma here?
Monroe: Yeah, she's in the condiments aisle.
Ennis: The what?
Monroe: Ketchup.

Well, I think that condiments is pretty tricky word with lots of letters — "species" would sound and spell more easily. So when Monroe says "In the condiments aisle", is that right that Ennis didn't't understand (or maybe had just misheard) this word and that is why he re-asks: The what?
You know, that could be a little detail for Ennis's portrait of a "roughneck" man.

6) Ennis: I'll be half the night. Bring home some ground steaks if you think of it.
Why would Alma think of ground steaks? May I translate it like "If you want to", or "I'll try to bring them"?

7) Alma: Okay, we take one more bite, and then you're finished with dinner. There, that's a good bite. All right, you're excused. Please. Thank you.
To be excused means here "You may leave to whereever you want, finally, after finishing dinner, right? And the last three words (Please. Thank you), what do they mean? In russian dubbing it sounds like "Where's your "Thanks [for food]"?" I mean, saying Thanks to the person who cooked after having dinner is a sign of good manners, but Alma Jr, being a child, doesn't care of any manners

-- Oh, this cowboy with glasses, again =) Eight) Ennis: We might not get back tonight when we get to drinking and talking and all.
May I translate it like this: "We might not get back, 'cause we are going to drink and talk all the night"? Is that a correct sence?

9) There's some questions about their motel dialogue.

Jack: ...Swear to God, I didn't know we was going to get into this again. No, I guess I did. I red-lined it all the way. I couldn't get here fast enough. What about you?
Ennis: Me? Mmm. I don't know.
Jack: Old Brokeback got us good, don't it? What are we gonna do now?
Ennis: I doubt there's nothing we can do. So now I'm stuck with what I got here. Making a living is about all I got time for now.

So the first and the main question that makes me really anxious: how exactly do they regard (or what do they thing about) their relationship (connection)?
To get into THIS?? Well, I'l explain. It seems to me that they don't take it seriously, I mean, they think it is just something uncontrollable that happens sometimes. Maybe I don't need your explanations; this forum is quite big and maybe I just need to read some topics to understand. (P.S. I mean, there are some posts about it, but I couldn't read some of topics here with thousands of posts =) So it would be great if someone write the link to those posts.)

I red-lined it all the way. -- What exactly did he red-line, their meeting after four years, or them living together (being GOT into THIS)?

Further question. Brokeback got us good -- It seems the best sence I could figure out, is: "We met each other on Brokeback and the time we spent was amazing. Without Brokeback, we would never met".

The third one. Making a living -- what exactly does that mean? I think Ennis talks about he works much and he needs earning money for his family, so he has extremely little time to spend with Jack.

And fourth. Ennis: The bottom line is, we're around each other and this thing grabs hold of us again...
And again, this thing?! Why does Ennis use word... "THING"? It sounds for me like his relations with Jack is something that he isn't happy about. Or, maybe, the something, that he wants so much but can't keep himself off of.

I would be really happy to understand these questions, they are the most important for me. For me to understand and, of course, for the translation to be exact.
P.S. Yeah, Russian language is quite difficult, but English is  difficult as well, sometimes. This goddamn verb "got" could be translated in 500 different ways

10) Here are some interesting moments I've found, either.

Alma: Ennis. As far behind as we are on the bills, it makes me nervous not to take no precaution.
Ennis: If you don't want no more of my kids, I'll be happy to leave you alone.
Alma: I'd have them, if you'd support them.

As far behind as we are on the bills -- What exactly does it mean? a) They just have a lot of bills that should be paid out; b) they just have a lot of bills (I mean, the fact they have got them is the mainest here); or c) there's no money to pay those bills out, no matter how much bills they got, they couldn't pay out any of them.
Those nuances are quite important for translating, 'cause I can't translate this part of the phrase (as far behind as we are) in word-to-word way.
The next one here: I'd have them, if you'd support them. I can fugure out two sences here, which make this scene quite different. First: Is Alma talking about that in fact she wants more children, but as Ennis doesn't earn much money, they just can't afford them? And second: Maybe those words are expressing their extremely quick decision to devorce? «-- I'd be happy to leave you alone -- Sure, I'll take our girls (Alma Jr. and Jenny) if you would pay monthly child support.» -- And then they turn themselves back to each other, that means they accept their decision and there's no way back?

11) Alma: So, one night, I got your creel case open night before you went on one of your little trips.
Oh this verb again. Was it accidentally, that she had found his case opened, or she had opened it on purpose?

12) Ennis: That don't mean nothing, Alma.
"This is not what you're thinking about, Alma [you're wrong about it, you misunderstand it]" -- is that a good sence? I would really like to translate this phrase like that underlined part.

13) Ennis: Well, you got a better idea?
Jack: I did, once.
Please, say, Jack means that he several times (not once) proposed to Ennis to live together, "ranch somewhere", move to Texas... right? If he talks about Mexico (We ought to go to Mexico -- That's the idea), it would just break my heart.

14) You have no idea how bad it gets.
Would be this phrase: "You have no idea how bad I felt! [without you/or with other men, by the way?]" good equivalent to the original one? (Again! this verb "got" :-/)

15) Ennis: I was probably no fun anyways, was l?
Cassie: Ennis, girls don't fall in love with fun.
This scene is quite confusing for me. "I was no fun" -- it means, that he's not as funny and happy as she was, so she doesn't [deserve -- dunno how to say] living with such depressed person, or something (That she's too young and he's old already)? And what does she mean by her answer? "Fun is NOT what girls do love; I fell in love with you because of some other reasons?" -- does she mean exactly that?

Oh. This all is very difficult. Very, very difficult project. But I enjoy it.
I'd be happy to see your explanations here. Thanks!

[Front-Ranger]

1) Jack: No more beans.
Shortly speaking, it is Jack asking Ennis not to cook those beans on the supper this evening, right? He asks and then he rides back to the sheep.

This is a tricky one. The way I interpreted it was that Jack preferred meat but Ennis was content with beans. But Ennis wanted to please Jack, so he shot an elk for him and they enjoyed the meat. In the same way, Jack wanted Ennis to continue the intimacy with him and not just be content with the status quo. So, I think he was speaking metaphorically here.

2) Ennis: I wouldn't mind sleeping out there.
Jack: That ain't the point. The point is, we both ought to be in this camp.
This camp -- he's talking about the legal main camp where Ennis is, is that right? Why, they're not ought to be there both, one of them should be up there with the sheep, right? And I still can't figure out, why Aguirre makes Jack sleep with the sheep illegally. I mean, why is it illegal? Had Aguirre had to pay more for extra tents, or something? I repeat once more, it's pretty logical to send a herder up there to watch the sheep not to be eaten by coyotes.

The forest service owns the land and they want to keep it as wild as possible. Having little tents all over the place despoils the land so they just allowed tents on allotments.

3) About the pneumonia again -- I have no translation problems, but is there anyone who could explain why does Aguirre using such strange phrase? Is it sure enough he doesn't imply anything hidden? What exactly has he got in his mind?

I'm assuming you mean "Not unless you can cure pneumonia". Aguirre means to say that even though Jack's mom made Aguirre ride up and tell Jack that his uncle had pneumonia, it didn't mean that Aguirre was going to allow Jack to leave the mountain to see his uncle. To Aguirre, it wouldn't make any difference to the uncle's health whether Jack was with him or not, since Jack couldn't cure pneumonia. When Aguirre said this, it was the second reference to Jack supposedly working miracles. The previous summer, Aguirre got mad at Jack about sheep being struck by lightning, as if, Jack said "I could control the weather". This was an element of the parallels to Christ that are present in the movie and book.

4) Jack: [Aguirre] says there's a storm coming, moving in from the Pacific. Worse than this one.
Ennis: That snow barely stuck an hour. Huh?

It sounds like Ennis make his phrase an counter-evidence. But what on Earth could be the correlation between snow and a storm? I mean, it seems like Ennis's saying that if the snow disappear, the storm wouldn't come. We seldom have storms with snow in Moscow here, so maybe I just don't know there IS a correlation

They use the words snow and storm synonymously.

5) There is a moment that seems interesting to me.
Ennis: Is Alma here?
Monroe: Yeah, she's in the condiments aisle.
Ennis: The what?
Monroe: Ketchup.

Well, I think that condiments is pretty tricky word with lots of letters — "species" would sound and spell more easily. So when Monroe says "In the condiments aisle", is that right that Ennis didn't understand (or maybe had just misheard) this word and that is why he re-asks: The what?
You know, that could be a little detail for Ennis's portrait of a "roughneck" man.

Yes, I think this exchange shows that Ennis is a roughneck, while Monroe is more cultured. There's also a sly play on words, since Ennis seems to jump to the conclusion that Monroe is talking about the "condoms" aisle. 

6) Ennis: I'll be half the night. Bring home some ground steaks if you think of it.
Why would Alma think of ground steaks? May I translate it like "If you want to", or "I'll try to bring them"?

I think this is just something he tacks on at the end so his statement wouldn't sound so harsh. Also, refer to the meat/beans discussion above

7) Alma: Okay, we take one more bite, and then you're finished with dinner. There, that's a good bite. All right, you're excused. Please. Thank you.
To be excused means here "You may leave to whereever you want, finally, after finishing dinner, right? And the last three words (Please. Thank you), what do they mean? In russian dubbing it sounds like "Where's your "Thanks [for food]"?" I mean, saying Thanks to the person who cooked after having dinner is a sign of good manners, but Alma Jr, being a child, doesn't care of any manners

I agree with you on this translation.

-- Oh, this cowboy with glasses, again =) Eight) Ennis: We might not get back tonight when we get to drinking and talking and all.
May I translate it like this: "We might not get back, 'cause we are going to drink and talk all the night"? Is that a correct sence?

There is something missing in your translation in that Ennis is being disingenuous. He's saying "drinkin' and talkin' and all" because he is already thinking about getting "into this again" with Jack (see next question)

9) There's some questions about their motel dialogue.

Jack: ...Swear to God, I didn't know we was going to get into this again. No, I guess I did. I red-lined it all the way. I couldn't get here fast enough. What about you?
Ennis: Me? Mmm. I don't know.
Jack: Old Brokeback got us good, don't it? What are we gonna do now?
Ennis: I doubt there's nothing we can do. So now I'm stuck with what I got here. Making a living is about all I got time for now.

So the first and the main question that makes me really anxious: how exactly do they regard (or what do they thing about) their relationship (connection)?
To get into THIS?? Well, I'l explain. It seems to me that they don't take it seriously, I mean, they think it is just something uncontrollable that happens sometimes. Maybe I don't need your explanations; this forum is quite big and maybe I just need to read some topics to understand. (P.S. I mean, there are some posts about it, but I couldn't read some of topics here with thousands of posts =) So it would be great if someone write the link to those posts.)

I'll have to research that and get back to you!

I red-lined it all the way. -- What exactly did he red-line, their meeting after four years, or them living together (being GOT into THIS)?

To "red-line" means to go so fast that the speedometer needle goes all the way to the end where there is a red line. On my dad's old Cadillac, that was at 140 miles per hour.

Further question. Brokeback got us good -- It seems the best sence I could figure out, is: "We met each other on Brokeback and the time we spent was amazing. Without Brokeback, we would never met".

I think Jack was saying that the "spell" or enchantment of Brokeback had great power over them, so that the subsequent years paled by comparison.

The third one. Making a living -- what exactly does that mean? I think Ennis talks about he works much and he needs earning money for his family, so he has extremely little time to spend with Jack.

Correct, and also Ennis was reiterating that he felt he needed to keep to the status quo and not do anything risky or out of the ordinary.

And fourth. Ennis: The bottom line is, we're around each other and this thing grabs hold of us again...
And again, this thing?! Why does Ennis use word... "THING"? It sounds for me like his relations with Jack is something that he isn't happy about. Or, maybe, the something, that he wants so much but can't keep himself off of.

Yes, and (sigh) yes.

Alma: Ennis. As far behind as we are on the bills, it makes me nervous not to take no precaution.
Ennis: If you don't want no more of my kids, I'll be happy to leave you alone.
Alma: I'd have them, if you'd support them.

As far behind as we are on the bills -- What exactly does it mean? a) They just have a lot of bills that should be paid out; b) they just have a lot of bills (I mean, the fact they have got them is the mainest here); or c) there's no money to pay those bills out, no matter how much bills they got, they couldn't pay out any of them.
Those nuances are quite important for translating, 'cause I can't translate this part of the phrase (as far behind as we are) in word-to-word way.

It sounds to me like they have some past-due bills.

The next one here: I'd have them, if you'd support them. I can fugure out two sences here, which make this scene quite different. First: Is Alma talking about that in fact she wants more children, but as Ennis doesn't earn much money, they just can't afford them? And second: Maybe those words are expressing their extremely quick decision to devorce? «-- I'd be happy to leave you alone -- Sure, I'll take our girls (Alma Jr. and Jenny) if you would pay monthly child support.» -- And then they turn themselves back to each other, that means they accept their decision and there's no way back?

Yes, I think Alma is complaining about the low-paying jobs that Ennis takes on ranches instead of working in town. We don't really know how much time passed in between the bedtime conversation and the divorce. It looked like Jenny was in maybe fourth or fifth grade, so several years could have passed

11) Alma: So, one night, I got your creel case open night before you went on one of your little trips.
Oh this verb again. Was it accidentally, that she had found his case opened, or she had opened it on purpose?

I would say she opened it herself but by using the word "got" she made it passive voice so it wouldn't sound so blatant.

12) Ennis: That don't mean nothing, Alma.
"This is not what you're thinking about, Alma [you're wrong about it, you misunderstand it]" -- is that a good sence? I would really like to translate this phrase like that underlined part.

The underlined words come close but they don't include the implication of meaninglessness and that Alma's words and thoughts don't count for anything, which Ennis manages to convey.

13) Ennis: Well, you got a better idea?
Jack: I did, once.
Please, say, Jack means that he several times (not once) proposed to Ennis to live together, "ranch somewhere", move to Texas... right? If he talks about Mexico (We ought to go to Mexico -- That's the idea), it would just break my heart.

I agree with your translation. I think Jack is saying "I did, once (upon a time)"

14) You have no idea how bad it gets.
Would be this phrase: "You have no idea how bad I felt! [without you/or with other men, by the way?]" good equivalent to the original one? (Again! this verb "got" :-/)

Correct. Jack is saying "I'm not like you. I can't be content with no intimacy."

15) Ennis: I was probably no fun anyways, was l?
Cassie: Ennis, girls don't fall in love with fun.
This scene is quite confusing for me. "I was no fun" -- it means, that he's not as funny and happy as she was, so she doesn't [deserve -- dunno how to say] living with such depressed person, or something (That she's too young and he's old already)? And what does she mean by her answer? "Fun is NOT what girls do love; I fell in love with you because of some other reasons?" -- does she mean exactly that?

Yes, that's what she means. Maybe there are some people who "fall in love with fun" but they're not the kind of people you want to watch epic movies about!

[Front-Ranger]

JfM, here are a few places where "this thing" or "one-shot thing" are discussed:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,49952.msg632341.html#msg632341

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,10512.msg205702.html#msg205702

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,11158.msg219963.html#msg219963

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,4253.0.html

[JackFromMoscow]

Front-Ranger, thank you very very much for information! Your explanations really do help me, now I should change my translations a bit, to be them very exact. I've got some extra questions, but first I'll read everything you've sent and re-read my whole topic again for better understanding. I really appreciate your help!

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

[JackFromMoscow]

Well, reading this forum, I feel like I am as dummy as a child who asks such questions as why there's a rainbow appears in the sky or why it rains, etc. I feel awful bad about my English level, many questions I ask are not what is the story about, but how should I translate or understand this or that phrase. These are the problems that native English speaker would barely have.
We got here Russian-laguage forum about BBM as well, but its main difference to BetterMost is its content. You have more opportunities to discuss both book and movie moments, but the first thing ever WE should do here, is translating into Russian. So our forum here contains pretty big topic of how would we translate different phrases and moments, so the moments we are talking about could have totally different meanings.

The problem is, there are so many languages BBM could be translated into, that there's no BetterMostian who could help everybody out to translate the text into their own language. So here, Front-Ranger and Southendmd, I really appreciate your help you give me, 'cuz there could be hundreds of people like me from different countries, who need help with translations (considering that help like you've been given me (oh these tenses; I mean, you started to help me the time I created topic and you are still helping me, I s'pose I should use Perfect Progressive tense here ) could take 5 pages as it have already taken for now, and more pages, having further discussions and explanations).

So, well. There is a topic on our forum, where a sentence is discussed... The sentence is: And maybe, he thought, they'd never got much farther than that. Let be, let be.

The conclusion we have come to, analyzing this sentence, is that their dozy embrace happened before (!) their first tent scene. Because Ennis didn't want to look at Jack's face - that's why he hugged him from his back; and a little extra detail, that they felt some kind of unsexual (!) hunger for each other. These aren't accurate quotes, but I hope it is understandable.

That's what we have to discuss here. Translations and all, instead of what BetterMostians discuss here.

[JackFromMoscow]

and there's another moment I want to notice: this forum is really amazing, because I often read the post that have been written in 2006 by several members (yeh, Front-Ranger, for example)... and after all this time, after NINE years these members are still here and discussing BBM!

[Front-Ranger]

You're very welcome, JfM. Our pleasure. Speaking for myself, I love discussing this movie as well as the book and I haven't found anything in the last 9 years that comes close!

[coffeedrinkintexan]

I have loved reading this whole discussion. Language is such a fascinating thing to me....how it affects and is affected by the culture around it.

And, I have massive admiration for you, JfM, for working so hard on getting all nuances so perfectly correct. Much of this movie is country-people English. Both sides of my family are country people, so it was fine for me, but this doesn't always translate well into other languages - or sometimes not even into proper English!

Anyway, I just kind of wanted to touch on this statement to add to what's already been said.:

13)
Quote
Barman: You ever try calf roping?
Jack: Do I look like I can afford a f*cking roping horse?
I've read something about rodeo, and I found out what exactly is calf roping. But what is Jack talking about? Can't afford? He means, such horses are expensive? If yes, it means that a rider should have his own horse, yeah?

When Jack says he 'can't afford a f*cking ropin' horse', it literally means he does not have enough money for it. You're right in saying a calf roper would have to have his own horse. He'd also have to be able to feed it, keep it in shoes, keep it healthy, have a reliable truck and trailer to carry it between events, and pay for it to be stabled when not rodeoing. For someone like Jack not earning a lot of cash and barely feeding himself, it's going to be near impossible to maintain a horse.

I think that whole exchange between Jack and the barman is symbolic as well as literal, but there are probably a thousand other symbolism threads for that conversation.

[JackFromMoscow]

thx a lot, coffeedrinkintexan, for your explanations!

dear Brokie fellas, the more I work on the translations, the more questions appears! in this respect I won't write such big messages as the upper ones, ok? it takes much time, but I want to be more productive.

But the herder, he's gonna pitch a pup tent on the QT with the sheep and he's gonna sleep there.

so,
pup tent maens little tent, not big one;
on the QT = at night (or on the space of time when forestry stops checking the territory snooping around)
Everything I've written above is correct, isn't it?

[coffeedrinkintexan]

But the herder, he's gonna pitch a pup tent on the QT with the sheep and he's gonna sleep there.

pup tent maens little tent, not big one;

Generally a pup tent is a small tent, yes. Specifically, one that's easily put up/taken down. It's meant to be a very temporary shelter (and not usually even a very good one) unlike the big tent the boys slept in at the base camp. Not a place I'd want to spend many nights, let alone EVERY night.

on the QT = at night (or on the space of time when forestry stops checking the territory snooping around)

On the QT = on the quiet. Don't tell anyone, don't be obvious about it, don't leave any sign you did it.
Aguirre knew he was asking them to do something illegal so he didn't want them (or himself) to be found out.

[JackFromMoscow]

...the "trade-off" means he has traded time off now (May), and August cannot happen.

So my variant of his phrase would be like this:
It was hard enough getting this time. (probably May) So there's nothing to say about August. (Nothing to say about something — in Russian language it means that the something is certainly not going to happen in any case — just want you to feel the sense I put in the phrase)
I suppose it would sound good.

So guys, trade-off was August -- it means here, that Ennis could get August time, BUT ONLY instead of their presumable May, right? Would my quoted translation sound good? Are there any missings of sence?

It was hard to get time off this time [May], so there's nothing to say about August!

P.S. Writing this very post, I have found sence missing. But it's very little, I s'pose, yea?
Instead of saying Ennis could get May time OR August time (but he already HAS got May time as we see), I will say in my translation: as they already HAD had their May meeting, the next one can not be in August. It was in the first place: Ennis had had to choose between May and August.
It seems that he was asking his boss about May and August, but boss said he could only choose between those months. Not to take both times.

... Oh boy, it is so hard for me. Please, if everything above seems to be a piece of unintelligible, incomprehensible, strange, odd, obscure sh*t (I got those word from the dictionary), ask me to rewrite it.

[JackFromMoscow]

On the QT = on the quiet. Don't tell anyone, don't be obvious about it, don't leave any sign you did it.

Yes! Now I know my translation is good. I mean, It implies everything you've listed. But I needed to know, 'cuz if QT was kind of quiet time, I would have had to rewrite translations.

[JackFromMoscow]

Oh, I've just remembered another ones.


1) I didn't know we was going to get into this again. No, I guess I did. I red-lined it all the way.

So you sure to red-line here means only that Jack was riding very fast? Tell you what, to red-line means to ride as fast as possible. But to red-line something? (I red-lined it...). You sure I can't translate I red-lined it like I couldn't think about anything but this [getting into this]?

2) I'd like to buy Jimbo a beer here.

Jimbo is clown's name, right?

[coffeedrinkintexan]

Oh, I've just remembered another ones.


1) I didn't know we was going to get into this again. No, I guess I did. I red-lined it all the way.

So you sure to red-line here means only that Jack was riding very fast? Tell you what, to red-line means to ride as fast as possible. But to red-line something? (I red-lined it...). You sure I can't translate I red-lined it like I couldn't think about anything but this [getting into this]?

2) I'd like to buy Jimbo a beer here.

Jimbo is clown's name, right?

Yes, Jimbo is the clown's name. Probably his name is just 'Jim', but 'Jimbo' is a way of - I don't know the right word here - "countrifying" it. Making it sound more rodeo-ish.

You are right in assuming that "red-lining" means to drive fast. Red-lining it just means he had the speedometer (or the tachometer/RPMs in a manual transmission) as high as it would go, in the 'red zone', pushing his truck to its limits in order to get to Ennis as fast as possible. 

This is obviously not exactly what Jack had, but it's close enough to give you an idea since I'm no good at explaining car things.

So maybe you could say "I pushed this truck to her limit, couldn't get here fast enough." Or something.

[coffeedrinkintexan]

So my variant of his phrase would be like this:
It was hard enough getting this time. (probably May) So there's nothing to say about August. (Nothing to say about something — in Russian language it means that the something is certainly not going to happen in any case — just want you to feel the sense I put in the phrase)
I suppose it would sound good.


So guys, trade-off was August -- it means here, that Ennis could get August time, BUT ONLY instead of their presumable May, right? Would my quoted translation sound good? Are there any missings of sence?

It was hard to get time off this time [May], so there's nothing to say about August!

P.S. Writing this very post, I have found sence missing. But it's very little, I s'pose, yea?
Instead of saying Ennis could get May time OR August time (but he already HAS got May time as we see), I will say in my translation: as they already HAD had their May meeting, the next one can not be in August. It was in the first place: Ennis had had to choose between May and August.
It seems that he was asking his boss about May and August, but boss said he could only choose between those months. Not to take both times.

... Oh boy, it is so hard for me. Please, if everything above seems to be a piece of unintelligible, incomprehensible, strange, odd, obscure sh*t (I got those word from the dictionary), ask me to rewrite it.

That's a hard verbal exchange and I think you've done a pretty accurate job at representing the feeling behind it. The words may not translate accurately from English - Russian, but the point is that one week is hard enough for Ennis to get. Two weeks will not happen.

I admire your desire to get it all right!

My husband is from Latin America and I'm Spanish-English bilingual. Trying to translate BBM from English to Spanish would be an absolute nightmare!

[JackFromMoscow]

You are right in assuming that "red-lining" means to drive fast. Red-lining it just means he had the speedometer (or the tachometer/RPMs in a manual transmission) as high as it would go, in the 'red zone', pushing his truck to its limits in order to get to Ennis as fast as possible.  

Yup, I understand — thanks!
The person who have written those word-to-word translations I got here, when asked about it, told me: "NO, it doesn't mean "to drive fast". First, because of the word it (to red-line it). In this case it means that it stayed in his mind, he could think of nothing except getting into this again. And second, there's the following phrase which dublicates the first one: "...I red-lined it all the way. I couldn't get here fast enough."

So considering what coffeedrinkintexan has said, Jack, saying I red-lined it, doesn't mean anything special, there's no any reason of adding this word (it). It just means he drove very fast, as fast as possible.

So closing this question up, here's my rephrasing and understanding of what Jack is saying:

"I didn't know we was going to get into this again. No, I guess, [in fact] I did [know]. I drove as fast as possible. And I couldn't wait till I finally come to you; waiting was excruciating; poignant; anguished (from the dictionary) /=waiting was terrible for me/

If everything's right, I'll be just happy!

I admire your desire to get it all right!

Thank you very much! But I always feel I'm too meticulous (hope that's a proper word — or, maybe, captious?); I feel awkward a bit, asking one question two or even three times. That is why I really appreciate your help! You spend your time helping me.

[JackFromMoscow]

coffeedrinkintexan:

Trying to translate BBM from English to Spanish would be an absolute nightmore!

So you just imagine translating into Russian! =) And we got here millions of variants of translating. I wrote it above: verb "get" in different situations has 500 ways to be translated.
Now the biggest problem for me is how to translate the next phrases:
I didn't think we're going to get into this again...
Old Brokeback got us good...
This thing grabs hold on us again...
This is a one-shot thing we got goin' here...
I understand 'em pretty good. But now with making them all clear, I think of how to translate it properly, without any missings of sence.
I want russian fans to have an opportunity of discussing BBM as BetterMostians do without necessary of knowing English. 'Cuz having russian dubbing, we'll discuss their dim-witted translations and make-ups, not what have been said in the original. Therefore, there's nothing to discuss in Russian.

[coffeedrinkintexan]

"I didn't know we was going to get into this again. No, I guess, [in fact] I did [know]. I drove as fast as possible. And I couldn't wait till I finally come to you; waiting was excruciating; poignant; anguished (from the dictionary) /=waiting was terrible for me/

If you have a choice in which word to use at the last of your sentence, I'd use excruciating. That's probably the most accurate description of how Jack must've been feeling.

Thank you very much! But I always feel I'm too meticulous (hope that's a proper word — or, maybe, captious?); I feel awkward a bit, asking one question two or even three times. That is why I really appreciate your help! You spend your time helping me.

It is a pleasure! In college I hung out a lot with international students and one of our favorite things to do together was have 'slang sessions.' We'd get together and they'd ask us what certain phrases meant, or we'd come up with a few phrases to teach them. They'd return the favor and teach us a few slang phrases in their own languages. SO much fun. I love languages. (PS - it's ok to be meticulous. It has a positive meaning!)

[coffeedrinkintexan]

coffeedrinkintexan:So you just imagine translating into Russian! =) And we got here millions of variants of translating. I wrote it above: verb "get" in different situations has 500 ways to be translated.
Now the biggest problem for me is how to translate the next phrases:
I didn't think we're going to get into this again...
Old Brokeback got us good...
This thing grabs hold on us again...
This is a one-shot thing we got goin' here...
I understand 'em pretty good. But now with making them all clear, I think of how to translate it properly, without any missings of sence.
I want russian fans to have an opportunity of discussing BBM as BetterMostians do without necessary of knowing English. 'Cuz having russian dubbing, we'll discuss their dim-witted translations and make-ups, not what have been said in the original. Therefore, there's nothing to discuss in Russian.

I can imagine. I wouldn't begin to know how to translate that into Spanish, either. Translators try to make up stuff either because they don't get it themselves, or they try to translate word-for-word which you can't do sometimes, or sometimes the phrases just don't lend themselves to translation. I see it all the time in Spanish/English dubbing so I get it. Grrr.

[JackFromMoscow]

Here's another ones. In fact I just need to be sure of them.

1) You ever rodeo?
What exactly is here? Have you ever tried to rodeo/Did you rodeo/Do you rodeo? (I think the last one is the best. It seems that rodeo was a real way of earning money, kind of a job, I would say. So Jack asks if Ennis earns money by rodeoing/or maybe if he just likes rodeo and money is not the point for him. It doesn't matter, anyway: it's /Present Simple Tense / here, isn't it?)

2) You know, I mean, once in a while.
What'd be better: sometimes or rarely? I'd take rarely.
UPD: rarely isn't proper word expressing what I got here in Russian. The point is, sometimes implies a bit more often then rarely, right?

3) Can't wait till I get my own spread...
Spread = ranch, right?

[coffeedrinkintexan]

Here's another ones. In fact I just need to be sure of them.

1) You ever rodeo?
What exactly is here? Have you ever tried to rodeo/Did you rodeo/Do you rodeo? (I think the last one is the best. It seems that rodeo was a real way of earning money, kind of a job, I would say. So Jack asks if Ennis earns money by rodeoing/or maybe if he just likes rodeo and money is not the point for him. It doesn't matter, anyway: it's /Present Simple Tense / here, isn't it?)

"Do you rodeo?" is probably closest to meaning. Jack's trying to find some common ground between them - he's already asked Ennis if he's from "ranch people" like himself.

2) You know, I mean, once in a while.
What'd be better: sometimes or rarely? I'd take rarely.
UPD: rarely isn't proper word expressing what I got here in Russian. The point is, sometimes implies a bit more often then rarely, right?

Thing is, it's debatable here whether Ennis really even rodeos at all. You've got the Thanksgiving scene after he and Alma divorce when he talks about all three seconds of riding broncs, and that's the story of his rodeo career. Personally, I think Ennis is trying to impress his new friend and say he rodeos a lot more than he actually has. For a literal translation, I think you're right that the answer is "rarely." But for the impression he's trying to give, "sometimes" might be the right choice....whether it's actually true or not.

3) Can't wait till I get my own spread...
Spread = ranch, right?

Exactly.

[JackFromMoscow]

Personally, I think Ennis is trying to impress his new friend and say he rodeos a lot more than he actually has.

Oh, cofeedrinkintexan, now I understood this one, thanks! Yeah, now I'm pretty sure as well that Ennis do tries to impress Jack. 'Cuz writing that question about "once in a while" I was thinking that Ennis told his girls his career was no more then just three-seconds-long on a bronc. I saw a disparity there. But now if consider that Ennis, maybe, tries to impress Jack and overstates his rodeoing a bit. Of course, 'sometimes' in this case is the best.

[JackFromMoscow]

So, coffeedrinkintexan, I got both a very tricky and important phrase here. Maybe I understand it and maybe I don't.
Here it is:

This is a one-shot thing we got going on here

I want to know your opinion, your view at this. How would you rephrase it? Maybe it's because of awkwardness Ennis says this phrase the way he has said it? Maybe he wants to say that this thing, yes, it did happen, but it was once only (one-shot thing); but Ennis's not sure he Doesn't want to continue it, so he says his further "we got going here"...

Uurgh. Maybe good variant would be this: Everything that is happening to us here is one time only.
But seems o lose sence a bit.

Anyway, my dear texan who likes coffee so much, what's your opinion?

[coffeedrinkintexan]

So, coffeedrinkintexan, I got both a very tricky and important phrase here. Maybe I understand it and maybe I don't.
Here it is:

This is a one-shot thing we got going on here

I want to know your opinion, your view at this. How would you rephrase it? Maybe it's because of awkwardness Ennis says this phrase the way he has said it? Maybe he wants to say that this thing, yes, it did happen, but it was once only (one-shot thing); but Ennis's not sure he Doesn't want to continue it, so he says his further "we got going here"...

Uurgh. Maybe good variant would be this: Everything that is happening to us here is one time only.
But seems o lose sence a bit.

Anyway, my dear texan who likes coffee so much, what's your opinion?

Hahaha, you're too kind. My opinion is just my little opinion.

MY view is that Ennis is NOT talking about it only happening one occasion and never again. I think he is saying, "Once we're off this mountain, this relationship will be over/what we're doing will be over." The fact that he phrases it "one-shot thing we got going on"....like it will continue to happen, but only for a specific amount of time.

"Everything happening to us here is one time only" or "just for a while" seems reasonable. Some of the meaning gets lost once it's no longer in Cowboy English, but that's the risk you run with any translation, any language. Well done with your effort!

[JackFromMoscow]

Alma when suggesting Ennis to move to Riverton, says that "Girls won't be sonely like you were raised".
I think Ennis told her something about his childhood, so (maybe) there was nobody but his brother and sister to talk to.
That's why she's saying "Ennis, you don't want our girls' childhood to be as lonely as yours, dont't you? " do I understand it correctly?

[coffeedrinkintexan]

Yep, that's exactly what she meant.

[JackFromMoscow]

Thanks, dear texan. I'll write down some extra moments; anyway, there will be two more translation "rides ". this is the first one, two to go. Second one will be contained with Lashawn's speech. The third, I don't know. The rest of I'll find to make it be exact and understood. It takes too much time; it's very time to finish it all up.
Here are some phrases:

1) sure enough.
This choice of words, as I think, implies the following: "Oh yeah, considering what I have just seen, no doubt you're going just to drink and talk and nothing more than that.
I ask because the translation would be like this: "We're going to get some walk and drink. - Oh yeah, drink [, of course]"

2) Is he somebody you cowboyed with or what?
Well, it's sure unough we got here the noun cowboy, but not the verb. I think asking about what did cowboys do back in the sixties suggests an unnessasary big answer, so maybe official dubbing sounds good: "Is he somebody you used to work on a ranch, or what?".

UPD: /though I've promised there'll be no more then two translation rides, it looks like I'm cheating a little updating this post /
3) You bet. (Answering Jack on a postcard)
What's the most exact meaning here? In russian dubbing this phrase is voiced over like "of course ". But I don't like this translation. May I translate it like "Come /imperative/"? [Yes, Jack, I'm here, you may come, I'll be waiting for you]".
Look, what I mean:
We got here hundreds of forms of verbs in different tenses, conjugations, etc. And there's two verbs that mean "to come ": first means to come by a car/train/cicle, and the first one means to come by walking(just like English' go and ride).
So I'd translate "You bet" using this our first verb in imperative form.

4) My daddy, he was a fine roper, though didn't rodeo mostly.
Who's roper? Why not just a rider? Rodeo implies riders who specialize their rides? I mean, one can choose between calf roping and bull riding? Or what?
Oh, we here in Russia don't know anything about rodeo. Not about clowns, and calf roping, and any extra entertainments (like sheep riding for children). Only thing we know about rodeo is a crazy bull that spin and jump and tries to kill its rider so I'm sure enough many russians would confuse rodeo to Spanish corrida.
So, maybe I'll change roper into cowboy? Or, maybe, rider?

[coffeedrinkintexan]

1) sure enough.
This choice of words, as I think, implies the following: "Oh yeah, considering what I have just seen, no doubt you're going just to drink and talk and nothing more than that.
I ask because the translation would be like this: "We're going to get some walk and drink. - Oh yeah, drink [, of course]"

You are always welcome!!

About "Sure enough." Alma really has no clue what she's just seen. When she says "Sure enough," I don't personally think she's being sarcastic here, which would make "oh yeah, of course" sound correct. I think when she answers this way, it's because she really is at a loss for words and that's the first thing out of her mouth. (I'm not sure if this is a common phrase used out West or not, but Ennis says it too when Jack tells him that money's a good point for riding a piece of stock for 8 seconds.) My opinion is that a closer translation would be, "Oh, uh.....okay." That's just my take. Ask a hundred Brokies, get a hundred answers.

2) Is he somebody you cowboyed with or what?
Well, it's sure unough we got here the noun cowboy, but not the verb. I think asking about what did cowboys do back in the sixties suggests an unnessasary big answer, so maybe official dubbing sounds good: "Is he somebody you used to work on a ranch, or what?".

I think that's a great way to get the meaning across. You're right that cowboy is not a verb - it's not a verb in proper English either. Your translation seems to be the best way to get across the meaning without it sounding too awkward.

You're doing a great job translating English that is very culture-specific!

[coffeedrinkintexan]

Hey, you snuck a couple extra in there while I was typing!!!! 

3) You bet. (Answering Jack on a postcard)
What's the most exact meaning here? In russian dubbing this phrase is voiced over like "of course ". But I don't like this translation. May I translate it like "Come /imperative/"? [Yes, Jack, I'm here, you may come, I'll be waiting for you]".
Look, what I mean:
We got here hundreds of forms of verbs in different tenses, conjugations, etc. And there's two verbs that mean "to come ": first means to come by a car/train/cicle, and the first one means to come by walking(just like English' go and ride).
So I'd translate "You bet" using this our first verb in imperative form.

"You bet" is like a stronger version of "yes", which I'm sure you already know. More like "absolutely" or "oh God, yes", but I agree with you that "of course" doesn't sound good. Not something Ennis would say at all.

That's a tough one. It would certainly get the point across to say "come" as you've described in the imperative form.

4) My daddy, he was a fine roper, though didn't rodeo mostly.
Who's roper? Why not just a rider? Rodeo implies riders who specialize their rides? I mean, one can choose between calf roping and bull riding? Or what?
Oh, we here in Russia don't know anything about rodeo. Not about clowns, and calf roping, and any extra entertainments (like sheep riding for children). Only thing we know about rodeo is a crazy bull that spin and jump and tries to kill its rider Cheesy so I'm sure enough many russians would confuse rodeo to Spanish corrida.
So, maybe I'll change roper into cowboy? Or, maybe, rider?

Yes, Ennis is talking about his dad being a calf roper....it seems calf roping was viewed as kind of a step up from the bull-riding Jack did, like maybe it required more skill, definitely more money. Ennis dad thought "rodeo cowboys was all fuckups." I honestly don't know what to do with that one if there's not a place in the Russian vocabulary for calf roper. I guess "cowboy" sounds ok. Sorry I can't help you more on that one!!

[JackFromMoscow]

Oh thank you very much, texan! Yeah, if Alma doesn't sound sarcastically at all as I supposed (but confused and having difficulties with saying anything), it should change my translation a little. Not even change translation, but intonation I should pronounce it with would be different.
Yeah, sometimes word-to-word translations are good, but you know, I should understand everything actors are talking about, so I could use a proper intonation. Sometimes it makes phrase be completed and understandable more than any translations and efforts of making the phrases to be exact.

So everything you're explaining is very important.

About You bet, well, I'm sure there'll be loads of translation variants, so... I think I'll translate it as I like to. It'd be the only thing I'll take from my mission off: maybe it is not the most exact translation, but I see Ennis here speaking: Yes, Jack, come! So I'll translate as just "Come!".

You used to work on a ranch with him or what? Well, it's not my win here, as I said, it was already there in Russian official dubbing. Sometimes it can give a proper sence.

And I think my translation of the roper phrase would be like this: And my daddy, he was a good cowboy. But he didn't like rodeoing much, he thought all the riders (or, better, everybody who does rodeo) were f*ck-ups. Anyway, the sence is there; everybody who wants to know about rodeo in Russia should use wikipedia at least.

thanks again, texan, you help me a lot.

[JackFromMoscow]

Hey, again!  

I got some translations I need to check.
1) There was one curve in the road in 43 miles, and they miss it.
If there was a car accident where Ennis' parents had died, I'm going to rephrase it this way: "We had a road there in 43 miles with the only curve -- and they [my parents] have crashed there." What d'ya think, does it miss anything? I'd be happy if it doesn't. I've found this translation out just an hour ago and in Russian it sounds very good.

2) Jack: You ever rodeo?
Ennis: Once in a while <...>
Jack: Are you from ranch people?
Ennis: Yeah, I was.

I don't know much about what did people do back in sixties. So would you please explain.
I see two sences here. I feel something like "To rodeo' is opposite to "To be from ranch people", look what I mean: I suppose that there were two (principal??) ways of earning money those years: the first is rodeoing and the second is ranching. Both are pretty good for making livings. So there were people who have chosen rodeo and the other who have chosen ranching. (And, of course, a lot of people who chose nor of what I've listed)
...But the further I write it, the more I doubt: Maybe Jack's second question refers to something different: "Are you from ranch people [as I am, or you're from a city]?
All I need to know is the following:
Do you rodeo? — Sometimes. — [So if you don't rodeo much], then you must be from ranch people, right?
So that part in the square brackets, is it implied or not? Oh with my f*cking poor English everything I've written above seems to sound very odd.
Poor boy who efforts to express his thoughts  

3) While you stem the rose.
Oh, my. I just have no clue how to translate it! I mean, in Russian dubbing it sounds like this: "...while you were making love up there". But it seems to be not very exact.
Don't know what is more to say. :-( I'll HAVE to translate it... Somehow. I mean, to transfer this choice of words into Russian. I think I'll ask it on our local BBM forum, or in VK communities.

4)

Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pm

Ennis: I wouldn't mind sleeping out there.
Jack: That ain't the point. The point is, we both ought to be in this camp.
This camp -- he's talking about the legal main camp where Ennis is, is that right? Why, they're not ought to be there both, one of them should be up there with the sheep, right? And I still can't figure out, why Aguirre makes Jack sleep with the sheep illegally. I mean, why is it illegal? Had Aguirre had to pay more for extra tents, or something? I repeat once more, it's pretty logical to send a herder up there to watch the sheep not to be eaten by coyotes.

Front-Ranger: The forest service owns the land and they want to keep it as wild as possible. Having little tents all over the place despoils the land so they just allowed tents on allotments.

Those explanations have helped me a lot to understand what's going on there with all this illegal theme. Thanks to Front-Ranger! But there's something I can't understand. It is Jack's phrase:
That ain't the point. The point is, we both ought to be in this camp.
He talks about the legal camp where Ennis spends his time, right? And there's illegal tent up there, I know that it is. I don't understand is this phrases exchange:
-- I'm tired of this four-hours-a-day commuting.
-- We may switch, if you want to.
-- It's not the point. The point is, we both ought to be in this [main] camp.

But why, what does he mean? Yes, they ought to stay there with forestry rules, but not Aguirre's orders!

OH. MY. GOD.
SHIT! I understood it finally when typing!
Jack: Well, yes, it makes me tired riding here and back again, but that is not the point. The point [I'm really irritated with] is that [IN FACT] we BOTH should /YES, YES!/ be HERE in THIS [legal!] camp [because all this Aguirre's shit makes us to break forestry rules, which we considered the RIGHT ones and these forestry rules are what we want to follow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

This bolded part in those square brackets... Oh Jesus, it came so hard. It's like a large stone that has fallen from my soul. Because there was a month while I coundn't understand that Jack in this very phrase... Talks.. About.. He.. Wants.. To follow.. the FORESTRY rules.. Not Aguirre's.

I'll enjoy rephrasing it once more: "The point is I'm irritated I have to break the proper/real/adecvate forestry's rules." "The point is, f*ck Aguirre!!!"
So happy now  

5) That fire and brimstone crowd?
Why do you think Ennis answers like this?

[JackFromMoscow]

There's not much I'll ask later. My text is going to be completed soon.

[Front-Ranger]

JackfM, I'm so glad you had that epiphany about why Jack felt that he and Ennis should both be in the tent, following Forest Service regulations rather than Aguirre's orders. Now, I'll try to tackle a few of your other questions.

2) Jack: You ever rodeo?
Ennis: Once in a while <...>
Jack: Are you from ranch people?
Ennis: Yeah, I was.

I don't know much about what did people do back in sixties. So would you please explain.
I see two sences here. I feel something like "To rodeo' is opposite to "To be from ranch people", look what I mean: I suppose that there were two (principal??) ways of earning money those years: the first is rodeoing and the second is ranching. Both are pretty good for making livings. So there were people who have chosen rodeo and the other who have chosen ranching. (And, of course, a lot of people who chose nor of what I've listed)
...But the further I write it, the more I doubt: Maybe Jack's second question refers to something different: "Are you from ranch people [as I am, or you're from a city]?
All I need to know is the following:
Do you rodeo? — Sometimes. — [So if you don't rodeo much], then you must be from ranch people, right?
So that part in the square brackets, is it implied or not? Oh with my f*cking poor English everything I've written above seems to sound very odd.
Poor boy who efforts to express his thoughts  

Actually, most people who rodeo are "from ranch people"... grew up on ranches. Very few rodeo folk are from the city. Most of the rodeo events evolved from tasks that ranchers have to do, such as calf roping. The calves have to be "cut" (singled out) from the herd and roped and brought in for their shots, castration, and branding. It sounds kind of awful, and it is. When Jack was peppering Ennis with questions, he was just trying to draw him out, make him talk. He was just asking random questions.

3) While you stem the rose.
Oh, my. I just have no clue how to translate it! I mean, in Russian dubbing it sounds like this: "...while you were making love up there". But it seems to be not very exact.
Don't know what is more to say. :-( I'll HAVE to translate it... Somehow. I mean, to transfer this choice of words into Russian. I think I'll ask it on our local BBM forum, or in VK communities.

This strange phrase has been understood several ways. You might try googling it to see some of the meanings. Here's the way I understand it but others may have an entirely different take. (Graphic language follows) It's a euphemism for the act of anal sex. If you think of the anus as looking a bit like a rosebud, then if you apply the penis to it, it's sort of like adding a stem to the rose. That's just my interpretation. Annie Proulx likes to throw in obscure phrases like that. She does a lot of research and probably heard it somewhere., or maybe she just made it up. So, how to translate this...does Russian have euphemisms for sex? I'm sure it does. Maybe you could choose one that refers to flowers.

5) That fire and brimstone crowd?
Why do you think Ennis answers like this?

Certain Pentacostal sects of Christianity, particularly in rural places, dwell on the Book of Revelations in the Bible which discusses the proposed second coming of Christ, where sinners will be thrown into the fires and brimstone of Hell. Ennis scoffs at this scenario but underneath his exterior the scared little child still exists.

[coffeedrinkintexan]

Thanks, F-R, for the great explanation on ranch people.

About stemming the rose, if Russian doesn't have a euphemism for sex that involves flowers, you might just translate it 'f*cking'. I've heard other people say that phrase means 'wasting time' but I don't really see that meaning.

Certain Pentacostal sects of Christianity, particularly in rural places, dwell on the Book of Revelations in the Bible which discusses the proposed second coming of Christ, where sinners will be thrown into the fires and brimstone of Hell. Ennis scoffs at this scenario but underneath his exterior the scared little child still exists.

This was how I grew up.

Ennis reference to 'fire and brimstone' takes on added meaning in his later conversation with Jack about everyone looking at him "like they know." It's almost like he thinks that the people at church, if they talk about fire and brimstone, are talking directly about him. Even if they aren't, his own fears cause him to think they are.

[southendmd]

Howdy, Jack! 

3) While you stem the rose.
Oh, my. I just have no clue how to translate it! I mean, in Russian dubbing it sounds like this: "...while you were making love up there". But it seems to be not very exact.
Don't know what is more to say. :-( I'll HAVE to translate it... Somehow. I mean, to transfer this choice of words into Russian. I think I'll ask it on our local BBM forum, or in VK communities.

It's important to note that this sounds VERY STRANGE even in English.  I suspect it's one of Annie's made-up expressions. 
"...while you were making love up there" is direct enough.  Could also say, "...while you were fooling around up there", but that doesn't necessarily have a sexual idea. How about, "...while you were screwing around up there"? I suppose you'll have to come up with something suitably Russian!

There's a somewhat old-fashioned term about "deflowering" that refers to losing one's virginity.

[southendmd]

5) That fire and brimstone crowd?
Why do you think Ennis answers like this?

In the context, Ennis is responding to Alma's request that they go to the church social.
To me, "that fire and brimstone crowd" refers to closed-minded people who are judgemental, and Ennis is saying he doesn't want to associate with them.
Heath delivers that line with such disdain too.

[southendmd]

Just for fun, here is an old article regarding "Stemmin' the Rose":

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,4890.msg96050.html#msg96050

[CellarDweller]

It's important to note that this sounds VERY STRANGE even in English.  I suspect it's one of Annie's made-up expressions. 
"...while you were making love up there" is direct enough.  Could also say, "...while you were fooling around up there", but that doesn't necessarily have a sexual idea. How about, "...while you were screwing around up there"? I suppose you'll have to come up with something suitably Russian!

Yeah, I remember the first time I heard it, thinking "I've never heard that expression before."