NC-17 RATED FUN: LET'S GET REAL HERE--How Many of Us Have Been SWOONING Nonstop?

[MaineWriter]

Too bad Alma wasn't more like the women here when she peered out through the screen door. 

Maybe her marriage would have lasted, or at least been energized, by what she had seen...  Maybe a little "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" would have gone a looooong way!

Barb?  Mandy?  Leslie?  Anyone? 

rt

Well, unfortunately, given the person she was and the time she was in, that was not going to happen, was it? It was 1967. At that point, wasn't homosexuality still listed in the DSM (the psych book) as a mental illness? (I can't remember exactly when it got taken out but for some reason I am thinking 1974). Just three years before (1964) there was that article in Life magazine that basically said all homosexuals were perverts.

Even if it was the present, I don't think Alma would have been accepting of a "beat 'em, join 'em" scenario, or even an more open marriage where she and Ennis had come to some sort of understanding regarding his "fishing trips." For me, it is an issue of love. I don't think there was a real strong foundation of love in their marriage and to be able to be open, understanding, and ultimately accepting really requires a pretty deep commitment and a high degree of maturity, something I didn't see in either of them while they were married. Ennis did grow up at the end, but that was long after their marriage was over.

The one thing that surprises me in the movie, and in some ways doesn't ring true, was the fact that she accepted, or at least put up with, anal intercourse. For alot of women, that is the ultimate taboo. They may try alot of other stuff but not that. Alma didn't seem particularly sexually inventive or assertive so to go along with this...in my mind it was put in the movie to show that Ennis was, in fact, gay (in that he preferred that type of intercourse) but I don't know how realistic that is, either. This is the point where my woman experience begins to fail me in matters homosexual.

This is probably the most serious post on this thread, so far! LOL

[rtprod]

Hi Leslie,

I'm with you on all of this, however one small caveat or addition.

You said:

in my mind it was put in the movie to show that Ennis was, in fact, gay (in that he preferred that type of intercourse)

I would argue it is put in the story and film to show that Ennis is unable to let go of the erotic pull to the glory days up on Brokeback, with Jack, and less a sign of him being gay (which I wholeheartedly believe he is).  He's clearly thinking of Jack each time he rolls her over. 

rt

[MaineWriter]

.in my mind it was put in the movie to show that Ennis was..

Leslie, it WAS in the book.  Check your story to screenplay page 9 last paragraph..

"working at it until she shuddered and bucked against his hand and he rolled her over, did quickly wht she hate..."

She hated it, but went along with it.  I guess that was her personality.  She suppressed her feeling too.  Only to blow up in the kitchen scene few years after..

Point taken. Yes, it was in the book and it was also in the movie. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

[MaineWriter]

Hi Leslie,

I'm with you on all of this, however one small caveat or addition.

You said:

in my mind it was put in the movie to show that Ennis was, in fact, gay (in that he preferred that type of intercourse)

I would argue it is put in the story and film to show that Ennis is unable to let go of the erotic pull to the glory days up on Brokeback, with Jack, and less a sign of him being gay (which I wholeheartedly believe he is).  He's clearly thinking of Jack each time he rolls her over. 

rt

Very well said, thanks for that rt. I think that was what I was trying to get at, but didn't have the right words.

[dmmb_Mandy]

How does a woman "Jack-off" by the way? Please excuse my ignorance.

   

Houstonangel: With everything/anything that you can find that works 

Man, I am DEFINITELY saying "gun's going off" the next time I have sex. I'll keep ya posted with the results!

Barb - we're on, beeotch! *takes out rope* 

[ednbarby]

Good points, Leslie and RT.  As much as I kid about it here, no way could I share my husband with another person, (outrageously hot) man or woman.  To me, true intimacy means that we share our sexual selves only with each other.  If open marriages work for some folks, power to them - I judge no one for anything sexually they do as consenting adults.  But I honestly don't believe it works 100% perfectly for most couples - I gotta believe at least one of them can't help but feel jealous.  It's just human nature.

I think a major aspect of the pain for Alma - perhaps the only one - is that when she sees Ennis and Jack together, she sees Ennis having the passion for him she so craves from him but has never had.  And it must dawn on her, too, that all those times together it was him he was thinking of.

I have no problem with my husband fantasizing about me being someone he doesn't know.  Nor he me.  That's one of our jokes - we don't care who pumps the tires as long as we get to ride.  But realizing it's been someone he knows and obviously has known intimately all those years?  That would be beyond devastating.

Even so, I never questioned her staying with him for as long as she did.  In her place and time, sad to say, it makes sense.  And actually, I've known several women who've known about affairs their husbands were having for years and turned a blind eye because the cold comfort they had was better than the alternative in their minds.

[ednbarby]

Barb - we're on, beeotch! *takes out rope* 

This ain't no rodeo, cowboy!  (And if I were you, I'd watch out for that right hook sucker punch.  Gets 'em every time.)   

[starboardlight]

For me, it is an issue of love. I don't think there was a real strong foundation of love in their marriage and to be able to be open, understanding, and ultimately accepting really requires a pretty deep commitment and a high degree of maturity, something I didn't see in either of them while they were married.

I completely agree here. I don't think their marriage would have last even if Jack never came into Ennis's life. Like you said, the foundation was never there. Ennis was to repressed to be open to her emotionally, and Alma just didn't have what it took to coax him out of his emotional shell.

[dmmb_Mandy]

Barb - I agree, I would never be able to have an open marriage. BTW, watch out, I know (some) tae kwon do!

[MaineWriter]

For me, it is an issue of love. I don't think there was a real strong foundation of love in their marriage and to be able to be open, understanding, and ultimately accepting really requires a pretty deep commitment and a high degree of maturity, something I didn't see in either of them while they were married.

I completely agree here. I don't think their marriage would have last even if Jack never came into Ennis's life. Like you said, the foundation was never there. Ennis was to repressed to be open to her emotionally, and Alma just didn't have what it took to coax him out of his emotional shell.

I agree...even without Jack, that marriage was doomed. They had money to fight about, Ennis had nothing but dead end jobs--the fact that Jack was "out there" and Ennis was gay was almost secondary  to the other issues they were dealing with in their mostly crummy marriage.