Author Topic: The Legacy of Brokeback Mountain?  (Read 6061 times)

Offline Aussie Chris

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The Legacy of Brokeback Mountain?
« on: February 18, 2006, 07:54:59 am »
Where to begin?  This is all really quite hard to put into words.  Brokeback Mountain started its run here in Australia, on Australia Day (!) on Thursday January 26th 2006, and I went with my sister the following weekend.  Several truck-loads of thoughts have crossed my mind since then, the scale of which have prevented me from posting much to date, especially since by the time I get the thoughts to keyboard, at least three or four similar posts on the subject have appeared already.  So from the outset I thank Phillip for doing exactly what I’ve been thinking for a couple of weeks, and started this site for those that desire to take a few post-BBM steps that require a little more thinking than are the characters of Ennis and Jack really gay.

Also, I'm not going to give you my opinion on specific elements of the film.  I’m sure you couldn’t care less what I think of the film’s specifics, and anyway, I've always thought that opinions are like a***holes, everyone's got one after all.  But just so you have a context for the words that follow, BBM has had an effect on me that has never occurred before in ANY other film, on any other subject.  Ok, if I absolutely must label myself, I guess I would say that I am gay (this almost seems an obsolete term though), and therefore the subject matter resonates with me on both a personal and historical level.  But to the best of my ability to string the most appropriate words together at this time, I sincerely believe that BBM has awaken something in me that, until now, I didn't even know existed.

I'll leave it for another thread to tell my theory about how this change has come about, and what it is in this film to have made this possible.  Right now I fear that any words that I might use would somehow diminish or belittle the film and its creators, but I can say that I recognise that the change is more to do with what's inside me than what was on the screen.  Bugger, even that statement somehow sounds like I'm giving myself the credit and that's not what I wanted to convey.  In my mind, this film is a near perfect example of the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, and in my current mental state, I just couldn't possibly do it justice.

Ok, so what am I going to say?  The thing that most struck me when I first saw this film, and the days and weeks afterwards, was that I understood that I had been deeply wounded by the experience, and I needed help to be healed.  In almost word-for-word exactness, just about everything that Phillip has written in his introductory posts also occurred to me.  The restlessness and distractedness was overwhelming, like a restored (or possibly inserted) memory that in my haste to get through this life, I had somehow left something precious behind!  And like many others, these feelings did not come to me while watching the film (the first time), they crept up on me from the depths of my mind several hours later, hitting me like the proverbial bolt of lightning, and I remember saying out loud “what the ***k, where did that come from”?  On subsequent viewings, just about every scene successfully re-launched me into that same state of grief and tears, and each time it was a different scene that did it.

So, after several viewings and after many, many hours of watching and participating in the IMDB message boards, and seeing some people "get" some things and "not get" others, I sensed that somehow we were all sharing because we all needed to be healed.  Even those pesky trolls served their purpose (ok for some) by giving us opportunity to see them for what they really are: a small and insignificant voice from the past that no longer has any bearing on how we have to think.  Mind you I must acknowledge that if it weren't for the moderators who ensured that I was spared the most vulgar of troll-posts, I may not have been as free to come to this conclusion.  But what truly inspired me was the many jaw-dropping-ly beautiful of posts from people from all walks of life (straight and gay) coming forward to tell their stories, or otherwise contribute in a meaningful way.  I am so indebted to them all, I just can't tell you how much hope this has given me.

So what’s next?  I confess to you here and now that I am an idealist that knows no bounds.  I feel that there is no reason why the world cannot be entirely free of any form of sexism, racism, or any other -ism that you may care to suggest.  The only reason why that world doesn't exist right now is because we as the human race, choose for it to not be that way.  Even those that would defend an individual group's “rights” often attack those that would try to keep it from them.  My own belief on this is that it is exactly that attacking-nature that is the problem with society, not the subject of the attacks, and this is true no matter which side is the perpetrator.  It's like we've not learnt a single thing from those destructive cold-war years, but instead of countries it's sexual orientations that look at each other with a kind of suspicion and mistrust that can only come from the most complete and disempowering state of ignorance that is possible.  If ever we are going to change this, we first need to forgive ourselves, then each other, and then give each other permission to come out of this ignorance finally, and at last.

My apologies if I have overstated or oversimplified anything here.  I realise that we all come from different backgrounds and have different histories, and these histories give us each a personal-perspective that may make this sound like wisdom or just foolishly-impractical, or maybe even both at the same time.  But I try to live this life, with all of my human failings and baggage in tow, and I share this perspective to the people that I meet, though rarely as full-on as in this post.  If you've made it this far, I thank you for your patience and endurance, and graciously encourage your reply.

This is my hope and my dream for the legacy of Brokeback Mountain.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2006, 05:28:33 pm by Phillip »
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Offline Phillip Dampier

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Re: The Legacy of Brokeback Mountain?
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2006, 12:26:33 am »
My reply respecting the sexuality issues can be found in Safe Haven, which you can find beneath this forum if you are registered.

Where to begin?  This is all really quite hard to put into words.  Brokeback Mountain started its run here in Australia, on Australia Day (!) on Thursday January 26th 2006, and I went with my sister the following weekend.  Several truck-loads of thoughts have crossed my mind since then, the scale of which have prevented me from posting much to date, especially since by the time I get the thoughts to keyboard, at least three or four similar posts on the subject have appeared already.  So from the outset I thank Phillip for doing exactly what I’ve been thinking for a couple of weeks, and started this site for those that desire to take a few post-BBM steps that require a little more thinking than are the characters of Ennis and Jack really gay.

Welcome aboard.  I actually replied to your entire message earlier and then botched it when trying to split the message up.  The part I moved into Safe Haven worked fine, but everything before that ended up disappearing... argh....  The software here is a learning curve for me too.

Don't worry if you think you're repeating yourself.  I found it very therapeutic to see so many people sharing the same feelings I had.  There is safety in numbers, after all.

Quote
So, after several viewings and after many, many hours of watching and participating in the IMDB message boards, and seeing some people "get" some things and "not get" others, I sensed that somehow we were all sharing because we all needed to be healed.  Even those pesky trolls served their purpose (ok for some) by giving us opportunity to see them for what they really are: a small and insignificant voice from the past that no longer has any bearing on how we have to think.  Mind you I must acknowledge that if it weren't for the moderators who ensured that I was spared the most vulgar of troll-posts, I may not have been as free to come to this conclusion.  But what truly inspired me was the many jaw-dropping-ly beautiful of posts from people from all walks of life (straight and gay) coming forward to tell their stories, or otherwise contribute in a meaningful way.  I am so indebted to them all, I just can't tell you how much hope this has given me.

Based on my conversations with friends, the breakdown of "getting it" seems to be stereotypically:

under 30 - Great movie, felt strongly for the characters, maybe cried during movie, not a huge impact on their own life.
30-50 - Great movie, felt strongly for the characters, cried during the movie, after the movie, saw parts of oneself up on screen and that hurt more.
50+ - same as 30-50, but if applicable, the lost opportunity theme/nostalgic look back also slammed you hard as well

Hetero guys that don't get it are almost always the ones slamming the movie for being overrated and they don't see what the big deal is.  But I'm sure that reaction would be similar for a lot of dramas.  [/quote]

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Offline Rayn

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Re: The Legacy of Brokeback Mountain?
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2006, 10:25:59 am »
Well, Chris, I don't have much to say about the legacy of BBM, in fact, I'm sorry to say, I'm not quite sure what you mean by legacy.  Maybe you could help with that, but I will tell you that I experienced many of the same feelings during and after the movie that you did.  To be honest, I'm still having feelings about it or I wouldn't be here! 

I know that I felt a lot of grief after the movie, then I started to recover and evaluate my situation in life generally and also with an eye for specifics that need changing, and now, I am still kicking ideas and feelings around, but I'm not as sad anymore. 

I am beginning to feel some excitement about what the movie seems to have helped me do internally and I like that.  I'm sure each person has varied and different ways of experiencing BBM, but that's mine in a nutshell.  I just thought I'd weigh in and give a bit of what I've written about in other posts but in a shorter form here. 

Hope all is well.
Rayn
« Last Edit: March 31, 2006, 01:57:50 pm by Rayn »

Offline Aussie Chris

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Re: The Legacy of Brokeback Mountain?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2006, 06:58:26 am »
Well, Chris, I don't have much to say about the legacy of BBM, in fact, I'm sorry to say, I'm not quite sure what you mean by legacy.  Maybe you could help with that, but I will tell you that I experienced many of the same feelings during and after the movie that you did.  To be honest, I'm still having feeling about it or I wouldn't be here! 

From the Websters Dictionary: Legacy: something transmitted by or received from an ancestor or predecessor or from the past <the legacy of the ancient philosophers>

Hey Rayn, you know I'm so glad you asked why I titled this thread "The Legacy of Brokeback Mountain".  I guess it's one of my little quirks, when I was about 20 it occurred to me that no matter how strongly I felt about something in my past, I wasn't nearly so upset by it in the present.  Although you might say "well duh", the revelation was that no matter how bad things are now, the knowledge I gained from the experience would mean that one day I would look back and be grateful - eventually.

So the Legacy of Brokeback was my way of looking into the future and saying that BBM is so big, so important, that we would look back and remember that this was the moment that everything changed, and I see it happening all around us.  The Legacy of Brokeback is the message that contains a catalyst that causes a shift in how we think, and it's changing the world.  This is also why I made a follow up "BBM Legacy: the 6-week mark" to document how my consciousness had changed 6 weeks later.  I'm thinking of a third chapter (maybe the 12 week mark), but I'm not quite their yet.  At this stage the thoughts are a little raw and I suspect that they may be off the deep end for some, philosophically speaking.  By my nature, my heart and mind lives in a metaphysical world. ;)
« Last Edit: March 31, 2006, 07:15:39 am by Aussie Chris »
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Offline Rayn

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Re: The Legacy of Brokeback Mountain?
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2006, 03:54:32 pm »

So the Legacy of Brokeback was my way of looking into the future and saying that BBM is so big, so important, that we would look back and remember that this was the moment that everything changed, and I see it happening all around us. 

Ah, I see what you mean.  Well, in another post, I wrote about BBM being "a tipping point" and that addresses your question of legacy:  

"I'm becoming aware that BBM, this simple but profoundly moving and energizing work of art may very well be a turning point in my life.   I know I am in transition toward new and, I hope better, employment and social relations.  Much is changing, and it seems as if the movie marked some tipping point toward taking serious note of where I am in my life, a push to start making improvements instead of just staying with what I've been comfortable with for years. So, if I list what is changing, I can say, my job, friendships, where I live (because I will move to another job by autumn) my own writing/art and even music and books I enjoy are taking new forms!  I don't imagine I will be in cowboy hat and boots too soon!  That's just not me right now or necessary, but when I look at what has happened since seeing Brokeback Mountain, many things add up.  Of course, some might say that all those changes could have happened without BBM, but from where I stand and see my life, I don't think so."

There ya go Chris,
Rayn

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Re: The Legacy of Brokeback Mountain?
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2008, 11:05:55 pm »
What a beautiful thread...too good to languish on page 16 of this forum!!
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: The Legacy of Brokeback Mountain?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2008, 11:05:13 am »


Thanks for reviving this Friend! :)

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Offline Aussie Chris

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Re: The Legacy of Brokeback Mountain?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2008, 04:41:20 pm »
*sniff* ah, those were the days...
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Offline BlissC

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Re: The Legacy of Brokeback Mountain?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2008, 06:23:10 pm »
What a beautiful thread...too good to languish on page 16 of this forum!!

I agree. I can't believe I've missed this one before. As I was reading Chris's original post I was nodding to myself all the way through. That post just about summed up what I've been trying (and often failing badly) to put into words since I first saw BBM at the cinema.

The thing that most struck me when I first saw this film, and the days and weeks afterwards, was that I understood that I had been deeply wounded by the experience, and I needed help to be healed.  In almost word-for-word exactness, just about everything that Phillip has written in his introductory posts also occurred to me.  The restlessness and distractedness was overwhelming, like a restored (or possibly inserted) memory that in my haste to get through this life, I had somehow left something precious behind!  And like many others, these feelings did not come to me while watching the film (the first time), they crept up on me from the depths of my mind several hours later, hitting me like the proverbial bolt of lightning, and I remember saying out loud “what the ***k, where did that come from”?  On subsequent viewings, just about every scene successfully re-launched me into that same state of grief and tears, and each time it was a different scene that did it.

That sums it up perfectly. I felt "lost" for so long, and it was a restlessness and often a lack of ability to concentrate on anything for a sustained time, because Brokeback just kept pushing it's way to the front of my head. I remember posting a review of the DVD on Amazon not long after it came out and saying "this film gets in your head and stays there".

in my haste to get through this life, I had somehow left something precious behind! 

That's it - perfectly!

Quote
So what’s next?  I confess to you here and now that I am an idealist that knows no bounds.  I feel that there is no reason why the world cannot be entirely free of any form of sexism, racism, or any other -ism that you may care to suggest.  The only reason why that world doesn't exist right now is because we as the human race, choose for it to not be that way.  Even those that would defend an individual group's “rights” often attack those that would try to keep it from them.  My own belief on this is that it is exactly that attacking-nature that is the problem with society, not the subject of the attacks, and this is true no matter which side is the perpetrator.  It's like we've not learnt a single thing from those destructive cold-war years, but instead of countries it's sexual orientations that look at each other with a kind of suspicion and mistrust that can only come from the most complete and disempowering state of ignorance that is possible.  If ever we are going to change this, we first need to forgive ourselves, then each other, and then give each other permission to come out of this ignorance finally, and at last.

Ah, another self-confessed idealist!  :) I just wrote a long and rambling reply on another thread that veered off into treating everyone equally and the ignorance and prejudice that lead to stereotyping, and divisions, and ultimately to prejudice and hate and all those -isms, and then deleted it because it didn't seem appropriate on that particular thread really. It was kind of related, but I think where I was posting it, it may have been misinterpreted.

A few months ago at work we had a training session with an 'equalities advisor' in advance of some new equalities legislation coming in in the UK next year. Everyone in the department was told they had to go, and while most did so, many weren't too happy about it and almost had to be dragged there kicking and screaming. I tend to be very skeptical of any "equalities training", because in general it tends to be "political correctness" (not the same thing at all) pretending to be equal opportunities, or it's skewed in some way, or misinformed, but this session really was different, and I was most impressed, as was just about everyone else, and even those who'd gone in with the opinion that equal opportunities and all the government red tape and regulations we have to adhere to at work are a waste of time, and pointless, came away with a new understanding of what it was all about (I keep meaning to post about it, but never seem to have gotten round to it).

The trainer was excellent, and she had a way of explaining things both in the context of situations we come across at work, and in a light-hearted and humorous way, while still getting the point across. She did it also in a way though that people could relate to. She'd covered a lot of the main -isms, and I was wondering if she was going to cover homophobia, and if so, how, and then she totally surprised everyone by asking, "Anyone who's heterosexual, put your hand up." There were looks of bewilderment all around the room, and everyone was that surprised at the question, and I think probably also either misread, or misheard the question, and no-one put their hand up. Her response was, "Wow, well they reckon about 10% of the population's gay, but it looks like I've got a room full of 'em here!" Of course then the penny dropped, and they realised what she'd actually said, and everyone started to laugh. Then she started asking people what they'd done at the weekend, and where they'd been on holiday, and who they'd been out with for a drink and whether they talked to colleagues at work about what they did at home, and their husbands, wives and partners. There were plenty of nods all round, and everyone agreed it was a natural thing to talk about. Then said said to imagine you couldn't talk about what you did at home or where you'd been over the weekend because you couldn't be sure what sort of a reaction you'd get from your colleagues and that that was what life at work was like for a lot of gay people. You could almost see the light bulbs starting to light up over people's heads. I think explaining things in that sort of way in terms that people could understand rather than quoting legislation at them had a lot more effect.

I sometimes think that I'm being a little naive in my belief that one day we can have true equality for everyone, regardless of race, sex, sexuality, etc., etc. and free of all of those nasty -isms, but maybe, just maybe with Brokeback and places like Bettermost and groups of Brokies who believe that someday everyone could be truly equal, and understand the "lessons" that Brokeback teaches and can teach the world, maybe we can take some steps in the right direction, and maybe these Brokie-voices in the wilderness may be heard and have some little effect on someone. Convincing just one person to look again with an open mind is a step forward. Rome wasn't built in a day, like they say, but maybe we can move things in the right direction. Brokeback's helped us to take a good look at ourselves, and maybe we can help others do the same.

Hey Rayn, you know I'm so glad you asked why I titled this thread "The Legacy of Brokeback Mountain".  I guess it's one of my little quirks, when I was about 20 it occurred to me that no matter how strongly I felt about something in my past, I wasn't nearly so upset by it in the present.  Although you might say "well duh", the revelation was that no matter how bad things are now, the knowledge I gained from the experience would mean that one day I would look back and be grateful - eventually.

So the Legacy of Brokeback was my way of looking into the future and saying that BBM is so big, so important, that we would look back and remember that this was the moment that everything changed, and I see it happening all around us. 


It's funny you should say that (on both points). When I was in my teens I started having chronic health problems which have plagued me on and off ever since. I remember at the time asking my mum "why me?", and she said that maybe one day when I was older I'd be able to use that experience to a positive effect, or maybe be able to help someone else in a similar position. Fast forward 20 years and over the years, the experiences I had when I was younger to a large extent have shaped me, and looking back I learned a lot from it.

Five years ago I was diagnosed with the most recent, and most serious problem, and though there have been an awful lot of bad times over those five years, including major surgery four times so far, there have been good times as well, and I've learned a lot about myself, and about the condition over those past 5 years. These days I run the UK support forum for the condition (and I actually indirectly got into web design and running forums through my diagnosis) and members are always amazed when I say that my diagnosis on balance has brought me more positive things than negative. It's a long story, so I won't bore you with all the details, but due to the diagnosis I've had a partial change of career, met new friends from all over the UK, and the world, introduced a couple of good friends of mine who ended up getting married three years ago, and got back into studying, to name but a few, apart from running the support forum now. I often remember what my mum said to me all those years ago, and last May when we launched the charity that's come out of the forum, when at the end of the launch meeting members presented me with an angel figurine, "the angel of hope" I really didn't know what to say. A couple of days ago, a member sent me a PM and ended it with "thank you for doing this - if it wasn't for you and this place I'd still be wandering around lost and alone" Somehow that made the last 20 years make sense somehow.

Anyhow, I'm rambling now, as I often do.  :laugh: My point is though that good things can come from bad experiences, and tragedy. BBM was never *just* a love story about "gay cowboys" (I really hate it when people describe BBM as "Oh, that gay cowboy film!"), and to be semantically correct, they were actually shepherding up on Brokeback anyhow  :laugh: but that's beside the point. BBM was, and is, a tragedy, and IIRC I think it's been described as more a greek tragedy than a love story. BBM strikes a chord with many people on many different levels though, and people of vastly different backgrounds and different life experiences and from all walks of life often see things of themselves, or things they can relate to in BBM, and that's it's power.

Going back to BBM being so big, and so important that we look back and remember it as the moment that everything changed, that certainly happened for me. The first day I saw BBM was a few weeks after my second operation, and my first outing for a long time. I went with a friend, and after the film on the way back to the car I almost collapsed, partly I think due to my medical problems, but largely a reaction to the film. That was the day everything changed for me, and changed my perspective on the world. Having brain surgery kinda alters your perspective on things, but when you follow that up a few weeks later with BBM, big changes are on the cards! That was the day I decided to take control of my life again and not let my life be ruled by the bits of my body that don't entirely work right and doctors' attempts to get me working again, and get out there and do what I can, when I can, because I don't want to look back another 20 years down the line with metaphorically only a couple of shirts and a postcard to show for it all wondering what might have been. That was also the day I decided to stand up for what I believe in.

Since I've been back at work from the start people commented on how much more confident I was. That's in part due to my medical adventures over the past 5 years, but in large part due to BBM. If I hadn't seen BBM that day I'm sure I'd have seen it eventually, but I'm just so thankful that when we arrived at the cinema, BBM was the next film starting, because we rarely go with any idea of what we're going to see, just whatever happens to be starting next. Sometimes it ends up being complete rubbish; other times we stumble upon something really worth watching. I'm glad that day it was BBM.


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Re: The Legacy of Brokeback Mountain?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2008, 10:41:20 pm »
Thank you friends Bliss, Aussie Chris, and Rayn. This is so beautiful to hear.

The funny thing is, my experience on watching Brokeback Mountain was very similar to yours, Chris! And since you say your experience was similar to Phillip's that shouldn't strike anyone as odd. Not until you realize that you are a gay man in Australia and I am a straight (ish) woman in the US. This speaks to the universal appeal of this movie and its power to reach out and touch everyone...everyone who has ever hoped for love or hoped to connect with another human being.
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