Full Frame DVD is "Open-Matte"!

[You-Bet]

Wow, this is interesting.  I may be jumping the gun here since I haven't seen it with my own eyes (yet!), but the report over at DaveCullen sounds interesting to say the least.  Someone has done a side by side comparison of the Widescreen and Full Frame version of BBM, and the report is better than expected. 

This is my understanding.  The "Full Frame" version of "Brokeback Mountain" is NOT Pan and Scan...rather it is "Open Matte" which perserves most of the side to side frame ratio and instead opens up the top to bottom ratio with "unused/unseen" film footage which was "hidden" by the 1:85:1 widescreen aspect ratio.  In other words, with "Open Matte" Full Frame you get MORE picture on top and bottom (filling the entire TV screen) and lose very little picture from side to side. 

**NOTE**, this does NOT mean it's better than Widescreen as it distorts the framing composition of the cinematography (which was intended for 1:85 widescreen).

Here is what the poster said:

"The Full Frame version is at least 75% Open-Matte.  What I mean is, in at least 75% of the shots nothing has been trimmed off the left or right sides (of the picture), the Full Frame just shows more above and/or below the theatrical frame lines."

He goes on to say, even though you get a more intimate view (tent scenes, etc) of the film you lose the director's vision and cinematographer's compostion.  And with Brokeback that's a substantial loss.  But as an "alternative" viewing experience....Full Frame is more "up close and personal" without the dreaded "pan and scan".

You can read his post (scroll down page) and see an example of Open Matte with screen caps of "Air Force One" at the link below:

http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=4716.450

The poster say's he will post screencaps of the Widescreen/Full Frame comparison in the coming days.

Here is another link which describes "Open Matte" Full Frame with a screen cap example.  Click below and scroll down to "Full Frame (Open Matte)"

http://michaeldvd.com.au/Articles/WidescreenPrimer/WidescreenPrimer2....

I will always buy Widescreen DVD's, but in this case I just may add the Full Frame version to go along side my Widescreen version!  More Mountain?  More Sky?  More Jack?  More Ennis?

 
              

[littledarlin]

since my WS dvd has yet to arrive, maybe i'll go buy the fullscreen to hold me off.  that way i won't feel so bad for having 2 of the same thing

[EnnisDelMar]

Wasn't the film also shot in an unusual format?

[rtprod]

Brandon,

It was shot in 1.85:1 rather than extra wide 2:35:1, which is usually used for scenic epics.  According to Prieto, the reason for this was to emphasize the height of the mountains and trees, using the full power of the frame vertically. 

However, I'm not really getting his logic because technically, 1.85 is no taller than 2.35, just less wide.  I believe he was referring to the matte process, meaning that films are shot open matte, full frame and then "masked" at whatever ratio they are to be projected in.  Therefore, BBM was masked at 1.85 with less cropped vertically than it would have had at 2.35. 

rt

[You-Bet]

Brandon, what rt said

Thanks rt, I was sitting here trying to put a response together for Brandon, but you made it so much clearer!

After reading this report I raced down to Tower to buy the Full Frame version (to go with my Widescreen version) only to find they had sold out their entire shipment of Full Frame (as well as Widescreen) BBM DVD's!  Amazing.

[EnnisDelMar]

Thanks

That's real good news You-Bet

[littledarlin]

Brandon, what rt said

Thanks rt, I was sitting here trying to put a response together for Brandon, but you made it so much clearer!

After reading this report I raced down to Tower to buy the Full Frame version (to go with my Widescreen version) only to find they had sold out their entire shipment of Full Frame (as well as Widescreen) BBM DVD's!  Amazing.

a few people have said they've gone to rent it and everywhere they went was completely out.  i think i'll go pick up a full frame on my lunch break, hopefully they'll  have some for my sake, but hopefully they'll be sold out for bbm's sake

[Flashframe777]

I bought the full frame first.  And I must say that I posted how great the big picture was.  I guess that's the reason why.  I also got the widescreen the next day.

[cmr107]

Wow, that's interesting. I got a widescreen, but now I really want to see what that full screen is like.

[SFEnnisSF]

This is all very interesting.

I read on a theatre-tech site that some theatres ran it in 1.66 (rather than 1.85) and they said it looked great (no boom mic's, etc.). (And to answer your next question, yes, theatres can do that).

Spielberg has a love affair with 1.85!  (War of the Worlds, Saving Private Ryan, Jurassic Park, etc.)  It was said he wanted the tripods in WOTW and the dinosaurs in JP to look taller.

[You-Bet]

Update:  The davecullen.com person who posted the Full (Open Matte) Frame DVD information will be posting his DVD comparison Review with screencaps this weekend.  I'll post a link to his review/screencaps so we can all see the differences between Open Matte and Widescreen.    

I love my Widescreen BBM DVD, so this may turn out to be a "bonus" disc for optional viewing on my standard 27 inch TV.    

[monimm18]

If this Open-matte thing ends up being true, I'll be buying my first "full screen" DVD.

Thanks for posting this!

According to Prieto, the reason for this was to emphasize the height of the mountains and trees, using the full power of the frame vertically. 

However, I'm not really getting his logic because technically, 1.85 is no taller than 2.35, just less wide. 

rt, I think Prieto did that, because the ratio 1.85:1 gives a better illusion of height, making things appear taller, don't you think?

[RouxB]

I just ran out to buy the full screen to add to my wide screen edition so we'll see. I was just in time cuz there were only 2 left-there were many many more than that yesterday when I was in the video store.

[You-Bet]

RouxB, once you've had a chance to watch the Full Frame (Open Matte) version...come back and let us know about your viewing experience. 

It's interesting to note that the Full Frame BMM "seems" to be selling as well as the Widescreen version (which is rare in today's video market).  I went to my local Tower store yesterday and they were completely sold out of BOTH versions and won't get another shipment till Monday. They just flew off the shelf!

 
        

[two_bloody_shirts]

Someone on LiveJournal has posted part one of an eight-part download of the full-screen captures.  You are right, there is more content shown on the full-screen captures.

Click here to view/download them.

[You-Bet]

Thanks for the link above.

Well, I went ahead and "double dipped" and picked up the "Full Frame" DVD.  My first impression?

This has got to be one of the best transfers of a Widescreen film onto a Full Screen format that I've ever seen!  The Full Frame DVD is indeed an "Open Matte" version of the film as I didn't see one instant of "pan and scan" throughout the entire movie.  Yes, there are several instances where I noticed an ever so slight "cropping" at the sides of the picture, but for the most part the side to side ratio is intact without much loss. 

As a huge Bonus you get MORE picture above and below the normal "letterbox" lines of the WS DVD.  Footage that was filmed then "matted out" in the 1:85:1 widescreen ratio is now "restored" on the Full Frame DVD.  More Sky!  More Mountain!  More Jack!  More Ennis!

Yes, the widescreen version is THE definitive version of Ang's vision, but as an alternative viewing experience the Full Frame is a nice bonus for BBM fans. 

I'll be honest, watching widescreen films on my 27 inch TV can often leave me feeling "distant" from the story as I'm constantly reminded of the letterbox ratio.  The Open Matte version of BBM pulled me into the story, much like my earlier theaterical experiences did!

There is a stunning amount of detail evident in the Full Frame version that I missed or overlooked on my WS DVD.  From the overall performances to the subtle facial expressions (oh my, those close ups!) to even the textures of the clothing and the beauty of the landscape...it all seems more "up close and personal" on the Open Matte transfer!  I saw details that I've never seen in the theaters or on my earlier WS DVD viewing.

And yes, in case you're wondering the tent scenes are even more "intimate" (you feel like you're in the tent with them!) on the Full Frame DVD.

There were several scenes that seems ever so slightly cropped on the sides (Ennis bathing/Jack cliff jumping), but for the most part every scene on the WS version (and then some) remains intact on the Full Frame DVD.  This is not a dreaded "pan and scan" Full Frame DVD.

By the way, even the picture quality appears "better" on the Full Frame...probably because it's a larger image.

This is an excellent "bonus" disc to go along with your Widescreen DVD!

 

      

[amh]

UPDATE:  Based on all your comments and the screen caps, I did buy the full-screen version yesterday and watched it, and it's BEAUTIFUL!!!!

It's funny - it took awhile for my eyes to adjust to the new dimensions after seeing the actual film now so many times.  It's a little strange at first.  But once I did, it was great to be able to see them fill the screen and close up. 

And to see the added footage on the top and bottom of the frames, for example, in the motel scene you see more of Ennis' hand (including his wedding ring) and his arm as he strokes Jack's arm, which is around him.  It's awesome!!!

I am still glad I have the widescreen version because it does give me the original experience as I enjoyed it and as the filmmakers intended, but on my 27-inch TV, the full-screen gets to be a pretty amazing, intimate experience.

[two_bloody_shirts]

As a huge Bonus you get MORE picture above and below the normal "letterbox" lines of the WS DVD.  Footage that was filmed then "matted out" in the 1:85:1 widescreen ratio is now "restored" on the Full Frame DVD.  More Sky!  More Mountain!  More Jack!  More Ennis!

....The Open Matte version of BBM pulled me into the story, much like my earlier theaterical experiences did!...

There is a stunning amount of detail evident in the Full Frame version that I missed or overlooked on my WS DVD.     

Crap!  Now you've totally made me want this!!!!!  I may have to buy it tomorrow. 

Did you see the screen captures?  That should help you see how much more there is.

[amh]

Did you see the screen captures?  That should help you see how much more there is.

Yes I did, thanks TBS!!!!  You're right - the descriptions you guys have given are great, buy SEEING is BELIEVING!!!

Off to Best Buy tomorrow I will be!

[RouxB]

Thanks for the report! When the special edition DVD comes out (fingers crossed), I will have every disc made-screener, Widescreen and Fullscreen. Is 4 of the same thing a bit obsessive??

I think not!

[You-Bet]

Ya'll come back Saturday...I'll be posting another link to a side by side Screencap Comparison so you can see the difference between the WS and FF DVD.  There will also be a "review" attatched from the guy over at davecullen who "broke" the news on the Open Matte transfer.

*Latest Update:  The guy still has not posted his DVD review with WS-FF comparison screencaps as of Saturday night.  Hopefully he'll have it up soon.  I'll post the link as soon as it is made available.





        

[littledarlin]

Ya'll come back later tonight...I'll be posting another link to a side by side Screencap Comparison so you can see the difference between the WS and FF DVD.  There will also be a "review" attatched from the guy over at davecullen who "broke" the news on the Open Matte transfer.

sweet!  i can't wait to see!

[You-Bet]

UPDATE: Link Fixed/Changed

OK, click below for some Widescreen- Full Frame (Open Matte) screencap comparisons! 

As I mentioned the Open Matte transfer does occasionally (ever so slightly) crop the sides (example = Jack in stream), but for the most part on the Full Frame DVD you'll see more picture above and especially below the normal "letterbox" ratio.  Case in point, check out the full frame screencap with Jack leaning on his truck...oh my.  This also holds true for the tent scenes, the motel scene etc, etc.

It also bares repeating, "more picture is not always better" as it does alter the film's artistic/visual composition...I see the Full Frame DVD as a "bonus" viewing experience to the definitive Widescreen version.  The Open Matte (for standard TV's) certainly draws you into the "frame" more, and thankfully in this case, that's a nice alternative.

Updated:  Here's the link that will take you to directly to the start (several pages) of Screencap Comparisons on the DC message board.

http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=4716.msg154880#msg154880
                    

[You-Bet]

Sorry.  I just got home from a 12 hour work shift to discover the faulty link.  It's now fixed (and works!).  Follow the directions in my post above to see a handful of WS-FF Screencap comparisons with commentary. 

[RouxB]

I've watched both and I have to say, the full screen was a treat. It mimics the theater experience a bit more-more picture, everything bigger. Feels like you are in the picture. It does screw witht the sides a bit and, as you said, it does in a not-readily apparent way erode the composition but it it really makes the nature scenes pop. LOTS more blue sky, rushing water, mountain top. Oh, and more sheeps.

 

[You-Bet]

UPDATE:  Based on all your comments and the screen caps, I did buy the full-screen version yesterday and watched it, and it's BEAUTIFUL!!!!
 
And to see the added footage on the top and bottom of the frames, for example, in the motel scene you see more of Ennis' hand (including his wedding ring) and his arm as he strokes Jack's arm, which is around him.  It's awesome!!!

I am still glad I have the widescreen version because it does give me the original experience as I enjoyed it and as the filmmakers intended, but on my 27-inch TV, the full-screen gets to be a pretty amazing, intimate experience.

Anne Marie, I just saw your updated post on page 1.  Thanks for sharing.  I agree with everything you said.  Yes, the motel scene with Ennis (wearing wedding ring) caressing Jack's arm is a nice "bonus" reveal on the Full Frame version.  Like you I have a 27 inch TV, and the Open Matte transfer makes the viewing experience much more "up close and personal".  

[You-Bet]

I've watched both and I have to say, the full screen was a treat. It mimics the theater experience a bit more-more picture, everything bigger. Feels like you are in the picture....LOTS more blue sky, rushing water, mountain top. Oh, and more sheeps.

 

 

Yes RouxB, I agree...it seemed closer to my theaterical experience of the film and drew me in.  Like you, I was quite taken with how vivid the nature scenes (blue sky, streams, trees, mountains) seemed on the Full Frame version.  Nice to have this as a bonus disc!   

[Aloysius J. Gleek]

That settles it--

if, in the motel scene, the 'Fullscreen' version shows more of Ennis's arm caressing Jack's, with wedding ring to boot, that's enough for me--I'm getting it.

(And what's the point in trying to be completist if you don't just break down and buy everthing, anyway?)

Thanks, all, for the info!

 

[amh]

if, in the motel scene, the 'Fullscreen' version shows more of Ennis's arm caressing Jack's, with wedding ring to boot, that's enough for me--I'm getting it.

John and everyone else, if you look at the link YB posted, in that scene you also get more of JACK'S CHEST, including more CHEST HAIR!!!!!!!   It's worth it for that alone. 

[Aloysius J. Gleek]

Thanks to Amazon Prime, I'll have Ennis's wedding ring and Jack's (or Jake's) chest hair by Wednesday night.

 

[SFEnnisSF]

Ok, I just went and bought the full-screen and watched it, AND I AM IN SHOCK! 

There is MORE of EVERYTHING.  It's as if they shot the movie in full frame 1.33:1 and then cropped it down to 1.85:1 for the theatres.    I feel totally jipped on the theatre experience now.

[RouxB]

You should go check out the Dave Cullen site for a great analysis of the wide screen vs. the full screen. It was pretty cool.

[monimm18]

You-bet, thank you for the info!!!

I am so getting the full screen version too. Can't wait to watch it.
LOL, I love it when I have a new reason to watch this film, it absolves me of feeling any guilt or questioning my sanity. Although, afterwards it's like I'm sucked back into the black hole of grief and sadness.

[You-Bet]

You-bet, thank you for the info!!! 

You're welcome. 

I've once again updated the link in my post above so it will now take you directly to the DVD message thread (bypassing the profile link) where the screencap comparison begins and continues for several pages thereafter.

Hmmm, I wonder if Focus Features knows how many of us are already "double dipping".