Author Topic: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times  (Read 25403 times)

Offline Meryl

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Re: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times
« Reply #50 on: April 07, 2006, 05:45:24 pm »
Quote
I've GOT to go back to the cult thread, which Andrew has lovingly archived, and look at the division between the 'tire-ironists' and .   Like the division between the Junians and Septemberists.

Meryl - Oh High Priestess of the BBM Cult - help us out here!!

Celeste, I just saw your question as I was skimming (and I do mean skimming) this already lengthy thread.  :o

Way back in olden days, JLScheib (now JeffWrangler) described the two factions as the Tire-Ironites and the Accidentalists.  Later, starboardlight suggested referring to them as the Ironites and the Rimmists.  ;D

At any rate, to avoid internecine war, I counsel tolerance.  Like the dialogue in the Second Tent Scene, it remains a key chapter in the Book of Sacred Mysteries.  :angel:
Ich bin ein Brokie...

vkm91941

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Re: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times
« Reply #51 on: April 07, 2006, 06:09:21 pm »
Quote
I've GOT to go back to the cult thread, which Andrew has lovingly archived, and look at the division between the 'tire-ironists' and .   Like the division between the Junians and Septemberists.

Meryl - Oh High Priestess of the BBM Cult - help us out here!!

Celeste, I just saw your question as I was skimming (and I do mean skimming) this already lengthy thread.  :o

Way back in olden days, JLScheib (now JeffWrangler) described the two factions as the Tire-Ironites and the Accidentalists.  Later, starboardlight suggested referring to them as the Ironites and the Rimmists.  ;D

At any rate, to avoid internecine war, I counsel tolerance.  Like the dialogue in the Second Tent Scene, it remains a key chapter in the Book of Sacred Mysteries.  :angel:


Thank you O Meryl the Wise, Ossana in the highest to the High Priestess of Tremblayana and keeper of the Sacred Collective

Offline ednbarby

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Re: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times
« Reply #52 on: April 07, 2006, 06:26:14 pm »
Barb,
Will you marry me?

Jeff, will you be my best man?

After Dorothy Parker, and re a comment you made above, it seems right to quote Cole Porter:

"Every time we say goodbye
I die a little..."

My drink: Gin.  Oh baby, gin in the garden in spring.  It's because of experiences of youth that my heart goes pitapat with gin in the garden in spring.  But so be it.  It's gettin to be gin (and tonic) time again.

Why, yes, I will marry you, dearest Sarah.  And gin in the garden (is that like tea in the Sahara) in spring with you sounds lovely.  I think I could even forego my Absolut martinis for a couple of G&Ts there.

Love that line in that song, too, by the way.

How about this one?  Not Cole Porter, but especially wonderful when sung by Linda Ronstadt:

What's new?
How is the world treating you?
You haven't changed a bit
Handsome as ever, I must admit.

What's new?
How did that romance come through?
We haven't met since then
Gee but it's nice to see you again.

What's new?
Probably I'm boring you
But seeing you is grand
And you were sweet to offer your hand
I understand.

Adieu.
Pardon my asking what's new
Of course you couldn't know
I haven't changed
I still love you so.



No more beans!

Offline delalluvia

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Re: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times
« Reply #53 on: April 07, 2006, 06:58:47 pm »
Quote
Jack was willing to come out to his parents to have him up there with him.  I mean, how huge is that?

Hiya ednb,

Do we know for a fact that Jack came out to his parents for that reason?  I kinda got the hint that Jack had always been left of center since his childhood as far as his parents were concerned - the peeing incident and the picture of the movie star in his room - as per the short story.  That he got flak from his old man for that very reason.

"Can't please my old man, no way."

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times
« Reply #54 on: April 07, 2006, 07:25:57 pm »
Barb,
Will you marry me?

Jeff, will you be my best man?

After Dorothy Parker, and re a comment you made above, it seems right to quote Cole Porter:

"Every time we say goodbye
I die a little..."

My drink: Gin.  Oh baby, gin in the garden in spring.  It's because of experiences of youth that my heart goes pitapat with gin in the garden in spring.  But so be it.  It's gettin to be gin (and tonic) time again.

Why, sure, Sarah, I'd be happy to be your best man!

BTW, though I have become committed to scotch (because it doesn't give me the headache that gin does, when I drink it in the evening), I still feel that one of life's under-appreciated pleasures is a nice gin and tonic (with lime) on a warm late-summer afternoon.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times
« Reply #55 on: April 07, 2006, 07:30:47 pm »
Way back in olden days, JLScheib (now JeffWrangler) described the two factions as the Tire-Ironites and the Accidentalists.  Later, starboardlight suggested referring to them as the Ironites and the Rimmists. 

Uh, Meryl,

I must have missed this. That "cult" thread got really long. No offense to Starboardlight, but I would counsel against adopting the term "Rimmists." In certain circles that term might carry with it the implication of a certain sexual practice, the nature of which I will not elaborate on in the presence of ladies.

And I ain't jokin'.   ;)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline RouxB

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Re: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times
« Reply #56 on: April 07, 2006, 07:38:26 pm »
What are the agnostics called? Uh, agnostics?

Squarely in the middle...

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Offline delalluvia

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Re: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times
« Reply #57 on: April 07, 2006, 08:00:47 pm »
No offense to Starboardlight, but I would counsel against adopting the term "Rimmists." In certain circles that term might carry with it the implication of a certain sexual practice, the nature of which I will not elaborate on in the presence of ladies.

And I ain't jokin'.   ;)

:D  Yeah, that was the first thing that popped in my head as well, but I didn't say nuthin'.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times
« Reply #58 on: April 07, 2006, 09:06:57 pm »
I think it's important that this situation remain ambiguous to the viewer to a certain extent.  I also think it's important that we see this in Ennis's imagination. The ambiguity that runs throughout the film on many different topics is part of what keeps the film intriguing.  But, I do think it's expected that we have a hunch, even a strong hunch, that Jack really was murdered.  The story about the tire exploding is just too preposterous (in my opinion).  It sounds like a cover story to me.

I don't think this idea that it was murder is ambiguous to Ennis.  His fear of just this situation is so intense (from the time he was a child) that I'm sure the idea that Jack was killed was overwhelmingto him.  The analogy with the sheep is very good to point out.  Yes, in the course of the film we see only the sheep and the two gay men killed in a violent and bloody way by predators.  And, we see all three of these instances of violence through Ennis (he finds the sheep and we only know of Earl's murder through Ennis's memory just like we see Jack's murder in his imagination).

Jack's death is his worst fear coming true (at least in his head).  And his conviction that it was murder through bashing adds to his sense of guilt and regret in the end.  All of the discretion that Ennis forced upon their relationship (insisting that they live apart, etc.) was, from Ennis's perspective, meant to protect them from just this kind of violence.  And, not only did this fail to protect them (Jack from the violence and Ennis from his grief) the discretion and circumspection caused them to lose *all that time* that they could have spent enjoying being together.  They could have had 20 years of happiness together.  This is a compounded tragedy.

So, yes, Ennis's internalized fear of violence against gay people has deeply impacted his and Jack's life.  So as usual, I agree with latjoreme's statement above-

>Also, to me the movie focuses less on the threat of society's actual intolerance, real though that is, than it does on the effect that intolerance has on an individual: Ennis<


ps.  I've just made my move over from the imdb boards (over there I'm "amandazehnder") and this is my first post at BetterMost.  Glad to be here!
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vkm91941

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Re: After watching my DVD a half Dozen times
« Reply #59 on: April 07, 2006, 09:20:46 pm »
atz75 =amandazehnder..I know you!  Welcome to Chez Tremblay West@ bettermost...Hope you like it here.  It's like a little slice of heaven to some of us!   Thanks for sharing some serious insights into the subject of Jack's demise with us!
« Last Edit: April 07, 2006, 09:22:32 pm by vkm91941 »