Bush appoints anti-birth control fundamentalist to run family planning program

[Kelda]

My insurance is through UnitedHealthcare, via American Airlines.  They do *not* cover birth control (or preventative medicine like annual GYN exams and tests), but they probably do cover erectile dysfunction "therapies," knowing them, and considering that they're probably about the most male-dominated industry in the country, after oil drilling and politics.

So in the US birth control is not free?

All contraceptives are free in the UK. You just have to go get them from the doctor.

[isabelle]

Very interesting thread. A very hot-button issue for me too, Barb.

Birth contol: absolutely should be covered by health insurance. It is not completely free in France: some brands of pills are not covered, condoms and diaphragms and spermicides are not covered, and the IUD is now covered, but that is very recent. Abortion is also covered (since 1980).

Abortion has to remain free, and an option. And yes, if you have sex education in school, that insists on contraception, and that doesn't only explain how babies are made, but also that it is essential to have enough self-respect to have sex with someone you love, or at least trust( i.e., that you must not let yourself be coaxed into having sex by an older adult - that's for teens), the rate of abortions would certainly go down. It is a very hard thing to go thru (abortion), but you do get over it without seeing a shrink - unless you've grown up thinking you are an unforgivable slut for not going through with a pregnancy. The nr of women using abortion as birth control must be very small indeed, and shouldn't be used as a scarecow.

One thing though, that I really, really cannot accept easily, although I can see your point: to me, giving a child up for adoption is the worst option; a child knowing s/he was abandonned grows up with one of the worst blows to self-esteem ever, even if s/he has a loving foster family.
And what about the mother who has abandonned a child? I know for one that I could never live with that.

So as someone said at the beginning of the thread, abortion may not be good, but it can be the least of several evils.

NB: In France, abortion is allowed only in the first 10 weeks of pregnancy. I admit I find it hard to agree with late-term abortion (6th, 7th, 8th month), unless the mother's life depends on it, but still... (because the baby is viable by then).

And one last thing: I believe that you should be either in favour of abortion in ANY case, or against it in ANY case; I find very hypocritical the position that consists in agreeing with abortion in case of rape or incest only, but not in other cases or it is murder. WHAT? Whether caused by rape or failure of your contraceptive device, a bunch of cells is a bunch of cells, or a baby is a baby .

[delalluvia]

Is it necessary to be mentally and psycholigically healthy to be a healthy human being?

Certainly, but does not having sex always detrimental to one's health?  Obviously not, as many men, women and obviously many teenagers, go years and sometimes their entire lives without sex and manage to live healthy happy lives.  So the answer to your question is yes, but having sex doesn't always lead to mental/psychological health.

What about counselling sessions? Should they not be covered by health insurance?

Some are, some aren't.  One must prove that whatever is happening or not happening in one's life is actually causing psychological damage and is not 'frivolous'.

The mental and psychological state of a person has effects on his physical well-being and vice versa because humans are more than the sum of their organs.

True, but obviously sex isn't one of those requirements needed for a healthy life.

What about the little finger of your left hand? Do you really need it? I mean is it essentially for you to survive? I, for example, could live without the little finger on my left hand. Since I'm neither a piano player nor a secretary, it wouldn't even handicap me in my daily life and job if I hadn't it.
But if I injured it tomorrow, I would expect my health incurance to cover the costs to rescue it and regain it's full functionality.

You might be disappointed.  What if said person goes to the hospital and is told that the digit cannot be re-attached?  Will a person be so traumatized that insurance will be required to pay the rest of their lives for such trauma?  Nope.  Insurance will pay the hospital to sew you up and that's pretty much it.  You're expected to function fine without it.

Trying to restore a limp dick will not cure some man of diabetes or hypertension.  He has other more important  problems besides not getting a woody.

Or what about the treatment of scars? Imagine you had a big scar right across your cheek and it could be treated, so in the effect it would be far less apparent. Should health insurance cover the costs? Cause you won't experience physical illness directly as an effect from it.

You are going to be disappointed.  That's cosmetic work and most insurance will not pay.  Again, having a scar on your face does not keep you from working or functioning at home and society.  If you're having issues about it - as in your example - any physical flaw that gives someone mental and physical illness as a result should be covered by insurance:

example:

Woman has acne scarring on her face.  It traumatizes her mentally and psychologically and obviously disfigures her physically.  Should insurance pay for all the cosmetic work?

A man wants an eyelift because - OMG - he's getting old and he's just shocked and dismayed about it, it causes him depression.  Should insurance cover it?

A teenager is traumatized and won't appear in public because her nose is too big.  Should insurance cover counseling sessions and cosmetic surgery?

Following your logic insurance should cover all of this.

[delalluvia]

So in the US birth control is not free?

All contraceptives are free in the UK. You just have to go get them from the doctor.

Hi Kelda.  No, they are not free.  The only place I know that gives them away for free (and the bc I'm talking about are condoms and vaginal shields.  Other bcs - the pill, IUD, implant, etc - are not free and require doctor treatment/visits) are places like Planned Parenthood and various other organizations.  These groups are what Bush and his Administration are trying to stamp out or weaken by cutting funding.

[delalluvia]

And one last thing: I believe that you should be either in favour of abortion in ANY case, or against it in ANY case; I find very hypocritical the position that consists in agreeing with abortion in case of rape or incest only, but not in other cases or it is murder. WHAT? Whether caused by rape or failure of your contraceptive device, a bunch of cells is a bunch of cells, or a baby is a baby .

I agree completely, isabelle.  I may not like late-term abortion, but because of my beliefs, if someone wants to have one, I'm not going to stop them.

[nakymaton]

Those of you who are outside the US: what is covered by health insurance here varies quite a bit from person to person and from plan to plan. A lot of things aren't covered, or require a different type of insurance. (Dental work is its own health insurance. A lot of common vision-related stuff, like eyeglasses or contacts, are not covered. Mental health tends to be only partially covered. If you have cancer, your insurance coverage will run out, and you will not be able to get more.) So it is striking that Viagra generally IS covered, when so many other things are not.

There was a bit of a fuss raised over Viagra being covered while birth control was not. Some states changed their laws to require insurers to cover birth control, but some didn't. (I remember when the change happened. My health care provider used to give me a year of free samples when I went in for my annual exam, because not many people used the same pill that I did, and because she knew it was not covered by my insurance. And then, suddenly, my insurance started covering it. And now I live in a state where birth control generally is not covered again.)

Some colleges used to give away free condoms in the 80's, in an effort to promote safe sex for both birth control and prevention of AIDS. There was a student organization that explained the different types of contraceptives, their strengths and weaknesses, and how to use them. That was the first time I learned anything about contraception -- my high school didn't have any sort of sex education class (not even one that explained the reproductive system... oh, and my Creationist biology teacher didn't cover those parts of the body, either), and my parents were too embarrassed to say anything more than "don't have sex... but if you do, use birth control." (And I should add... I went to a public school, not a religious school.) And my doctor told my mother that I didn't need an annual exam unless I was already having sex. (As if I would have told my mother, given how incredibly brief our one conversation was!)

And that was the 80's, before the "abstinence-only" campaigns started. I hate to think what's being taught (or not taught) to kids now.

[isabelle]

  I may not like late-term abortion, but because of my beliefs, if someone wants to have one, I'm not going to stop them.

DEL, I totally agree. I wouldn't stop anyone having a late-term abortion. I guess I was thinking a bit too personally when I said "I find it hard to agree with it". But I do, have to, if I want to be coherent with my beliefs.

[Penthesilea]

Those of you who are outside the US: what is covered by health insurance here varies quite a bit from person to person and from plan to plan. A lot of things aren't covered, or require a different type of insurance. (Dental work is its own health insurance. A lot of common vision-related stuff, like eyeglasses or contacts, are not covered. Mental health tends to be only partially covered. If you have cancer, your insurance coverage will run out, and you will not be able to get more.) So it is striking that Viagra generally IS covered, when so many other things are not.

Thanks, Mel. I was starting to think in that direction after delalluvia's last reply. This makes me understand her point a lot more.

If you have cancer, your insurance coverage will run out, and you will not be able to get more

  Is there an error in this sentence? Did you mean: If you have cancer, and additionally have the bad luck that your health insurance runs out, then you will not able to get a new one?
Or is it in fact so that insurance companies have the right to kick out/cancel contracts when someone gets cancer? Please tell me that's not the case.

-- my high school didn't have any sort of sex education class (not even one that explained the reproductive system... oh, and my Creationist biology teacher didn't cover those parts of the body, either), and my parents were too embarrassed to say anything more than "don't have sex... but if you do, use birth control." (And I should add... I went to a public school, not a religious school.)
...
And that was the 80's, before the "abstinence-only" campaigns started. I hate to think what's being taught (or not taught) to kids now.

Oh.My.God. Leaves me speechless but angry.

I learned the basics about the reproductive system (where the babies come from and how they are made) before I started school (at age 6) from my parents. They had explained it to me and showed me books with pictures in it. And I did the same with my children. They knew the correct names for the genitals and what teenagers and adults do with them by the time they started school.

And in school the children have sex education shortly before puberty (I think about the age of 11) and methods of birth control are self-evident a part of it.

[jpwagoneer1964]

One thing though, that I really, really cannot accept easily, although I can see your point: to me, giving a child up for adoption is the worst option; a child knowing s/he was abandonned grows up with one of the worst blows to self-esteem ever, even if s/he has a loving foster family.
 

Adoption is the best choice for a baby( As opposed to abortion) So much better than being murderd before birth. And acopted child will grow up with  parent who wanted them. Lets call it what it  is, killing Babies.

[injest]

I don't see adoption as being a bad choice at all...how it affects a child's self esteem will (like many other factors) depend on the parents..in this case adoptive....

there will always be good parents and bad parents...doesn't matter if they are adoptive or biological!

I do have a problem with an abortion after the first trimester...and I know that opens me up to being called a hypocrit....

the whole issue is one of those that will never be an absolute..no one will ever get everyone on the same side of the issue. What we need is compromise....what are you willing to accept or give to the other side. not everything is black/white...there are a lot of grey.