Author Topic: Saw the Hand Holdin'. (Read 31549 times)

sparkle_motion · « **on:** April 06, 2006, 11:30:06 pm »

I just now got to watch my DVD. It was very clear and bright! However, the sound was a little poor, but I'm not sure if that's my TV or not. A lot of fuzz noise in the quiet parts.
But I saw the hand holding! I'm so thankful to you guys for pointing that out, I never would have noticed it.
My eyes are still burning from all of my tears. I have never not cried at Brokeback.
While I'm still feeling emotional and sentimental, I just want to say...
We are all romantics and lovers at heart, otherwise we couldn't appreciate this movie the way we do. And for that, I love you all!

EnnisDelMar · « **Reply #1 on:** April 06, 2006, 11:33:17 pm »

{hugs Stacey} Can't wait to get my dvd.

JCinNYC2006 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 06, 2006, 11:48:18 pm »

I must've missed that thread...in what scene are they holding hands?

sparkle_motion · « **Reply #3 on:** April 06, 2006, 11:52:23 pm »

Ruffalo, in the first tent scene.
Here's the link: http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=535.0

RouxB · « **Reply #4 on:** April 06, 2006, 11:53:10 pm »

Tent one-the sex part. Very sweet-you can see Ennis's jacket sleeve and Jack holding his hand.

dmmb_Mandy · « **Reply #5 on:** April 06, 2006, 11:54:13 pm »

I know! I never noticed that physical connection with the hands until the DVD too! And I love it. Yet another thing captivating me about this amazing movie.

JCinNYC2006 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 07, 2006, 12:06:05 am »

Oh wow. Oh shit. You know I think I noticed it but it didn't really register. In a way it's almost like a balance thing...but it's more than that too.

What's more amazing, a movie with so many touches like that, or cool people who notice them??

Ruffalo

littleguitar · « **Reply #7 on:** April 07, 2006, 01:22:37 am »

I love that hand holding, because it happens right after Jack pounds the floor and it's almost as if Ennis is soothing him or calming him in some way, like he's saying it's alright, settle down...

delalluvia · « **Reply #8 on:** April 07, 2006, 08:17:20 am »

Quote from: JCinNYC2006 on April 07, 2006, 12:06:05 am

Oh wow. Oh shit. You know I think I noticed it but it didn't really register. In a way it's almost like a balance thing...but it's more than that too.

I think it's originally a balance thing too...or an attempt to keep from accidentally separating.

Er, is it as easy to fall out of er, the rosebud, as it is normally with a woman?

chefjudy · « **Reply #9 on:** April 07, 2006, 08:44:34 am »

Quote

Er, is it as easy to fall out of er, the rosebud, as it is normally with a woman?

that's a really interesting way of putting that - must remember for future reference and/or use - LOL....................

amh · « **Reply #10 on:** April 07, 2006, 09:11:26 am »

It's great, isn't it? I saw it before on a You-Tube vid after someone pointed it out. But I just saw it last night for the first time on my DVD - and loved it even more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [swoon]

Even if it started as a balance thing, which I totally understand, they still could have grabbed anything else to balance. The fact that it's their hands at least gives the viewer something to "hang" on to as well!!!!

It's funny that I've gone from being surprised by this scene the first time I saw the film (not disliking it, just that it's quick commencement kind of blindsided me the first time, I didn't see it coming and it seemed out of place) to totally LOVING it!!!

serious crayons · « **Reply #11 on:** April 07, 2006, 09:41:43 am »

Quote from: littleguitar on April 07, 2006, 01:22:37 am

I love that hand holding, because it happens right after Jack pounds the floor and it's almost as if Ennis is soothing him or calming him in some way, like he's saying it's alright, settle down...

Yeah, that's how I interpret it, too, as Ennis offering support and comfort and affection. And it's the perfect argument against those ignorant people who say that scene is too ... well, whatever it is they say about it. It's actually very sweet.

moremojo · « **Reply #12 on:** April 07, 2006, 11:33:34 am »

Hi, team:

I hope to purchase a copy of the DVD from Borders or Barnes & Noble this weekend. Never saw the hands at any of my five theatrical viewings, but my friend Melinda assured me that they're there, having noticed them for the first time earlier this week on the DVD. Oh god, I feel like swooning at the very thought of it!

Always loved this scene, by the way, especially Ennis's confused, vulnerable "What're you doin?", his grunt, and the way he falls over on Jack's back. The filmmakers expertly conveyed the lust of the moment while never veering into the explicit. Ennis and Jack are fully revealed here as sexual beings, and I really value this depiction as a gay man who feels gay screen characters are often neutered out of a sense of decorum or "good taste".

Regards,
Scott

serious crayons · « **Reply #13 on:** April 07, 2006, 11:55:29 am »

Quote from: moremojo on April 07, 2006, 11:33:34 am

I really value this depiction as a gay man who feels gay screen characters are often neutered out of a sense of decorum or "good taste".

Ang is often described as having good taste, and he does, but I like how he doesn't pull any punches with this; he just puts the sex right out there, like it or not, no switching to exterior tent shots or anything like that. Yet at the same time the scene IS tasteful. It can be hard to watch an explicit sex scene involving any two people of whatever gender unless it's done well. And this one is done beautifully.

Front-Ranger · « **Reply #14 on:** April 07, 2006, 11:59:52 am »

This scene has really taken on a whole new dimension for me in the DVD. Not only is it brighter and easier to see, but it's more romantic and intimate than when I saw it in the theater.

sparkle_motion · « **Reply #15 on:** April 07, 2006, 12:23:42 pm »

Quote from: Front-Ranger on April 07, 2006, 11:59:52 am

This scene has really taken on a whole new dimension for me in the DVD. Not only is it brighter and easier to see, but it's more romantic and intimate than when I saw it in the theater.

Absolutely agree.

JCinNYC2006 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 07, 2006, 01:45:47 pm »

Quote from: moremojo on April 07, 2006, 11:33:34 am

<snip>Always loved this scene, by the way, especially Ennis's confused, vulnerable "What're you doin?", his grunt, and the way he falls over on Jack's back. The filmmakers expertly conveyed the lust of the moment while never veering into the explicit. Ennis and Jack are fully revealed here as sexual beings, and I really value this depiction as a gay man who feels gay screen characters are often neutered out of a sense of decorum or "good taste".
Regards,
Scott

Totally. It's graphic and explicit without being porno (in the sense of being artificial - in a porn you don't necessarily believe that the sex is spontaneous passion). The first time I saw it I was shocked because it felt like seeing two guys just fall into it. And yeah it happens that it slips out of the 'rosebud', depends on different things.

ednbarby · « **Reply #17 on:** April 07, 2006, 01:58:04 pm »

Quote from: sparkle_motion on April 07, 2006, 12:23:42 pm

Quote from: Front-Ranger on April 07, 2006, 11:59:52 am
This scene has really taken on a whole new dimension for me in the DVD. Not only is it brighter and easier to see, but it's more romantic and intimate than when I saw it in the theater.

Absolutely agree.

I second that emotion. The way they stare into each other's eyes - Jack so plaintively, if that's the right word, and then down at each other's, uh, packages just rocks my socks off. Never caught that in all five of my theater viewings. It's just the s***, nodamean, Vern?

sparkle_motion · « **Reply #18 on:** April 07, 2006, 03:17:36 pm »

I didn't see them look at each other's packages!! Looks like I'll have to watch it again to see that part. Where does it happen exactly?

Barb, I can't believe you just used knowwhatimean, Vern. That made me laugh outloud.

ednbarby · « **Reply #19 on:** April 07, 2006, 04:09:36 pm »

Quote from: sparkle_motion on April 07, 2006, 03:17:36 pm

I didn't see them look at each other's packages!! Looks like I'll have to watch it again to see that part. Where does it happen exactly?

Barb, I can't believe you just used knowwhatimean, Vern. That made me laugh outloud.

I think it's right after Ennis says, "Whadya doin'?" and they're kneeling there, kind of grabbing at each other, and Jack hasn't undone his belt and fly yet. First, there's that eye-to-eye stare, then some more grabbing around the face and neck and shoulders, and then their eyes head south at the same time and linger there just before Jack undoes the belt. Both their mouths are open just a little bit the whole time.

Here I thought the reunion make-out was the sexiest damned thing ever recorded on film, and this trumped it. Hell, this hand could go it alone.

delalluvia · « **Reply #20 on:** April 07, 2006, 08:05:49 pm »

Such guys.

I certainly didn't see it as 'checking out each other packages' since Ennis is still half-drunk, but simply Ennis following Jack's hands down - from 'Whut're you doin'?' to a where are his hands going? - then he figures it out when Jack goes for his belt buckle...

ednbarby · « **Reply #21 on:** April 07, 2006, 08:09:13 pm »

Quote from: delalluvia on April 07, 2006, 08:05:49 pm

Such guys.

I certainly didn't see it as 'checking out each other packages' since Ennis is still half-drunk, but simply Ennis following Jack's hands down - from 'Whut're you doin'?' to a where are his hands going? - then he figures it out when Jack goes for his belt buckle...

OK, OK, I should have put that a bit more delicately. Or a lot more.

I didn't see it as 'checking them out,' either - it was an eyes going subtlely downwards thing. For me, it was the mouths slightly open with lust that hit me where I live.

Sheyne · « **Reply #22 on:** April 07, 2006, 09:16:09 pm »

Righto, we all know the quality of the copy I have in MY possession, but even taking that into account, I don't see the hand thing. $:-\$

My copy is quite dark, probably only a little darker than the cinema version but I can't get a lot of detail out of it. For when I get my hands on a really GOOD quality copy, can someone please tell me exactly what I'm looking for and when?? Someone said earlier in the thread that its right AFTER Jack pounds the floor - but both his hands are on the ground then and it cuts to outside the tent..

A little help??

DeeDee · « **Reply #23 on:** April 07, 2006, 09:43:50 pm »

If you look at the bottom of your screen a little to the left, you can see part of Ennis' jacket sleeve. Jack is grabbing on to it. After Ennis is, well, done, you see Jack grab Ennis' hand with both of his hands.

Brown Eyes · « **Reply #24 on:** April 07, 2006, 09:48:53 pm »

Quote from: littleguitar on April 07, 2006, 01:22:37 am

I love that hand holding, because it happens right after Jack pounds the floor and it's almost as if Ennis is soothing him or calming him in some way, like he's saying it's alright, settle down...

I love this description! I think it fits perfectly with Ennis's general sensitivity. Even in this incredibly intense moment, deep down Ennis is very sensitive and caring. Awww.... The level of nuance and the number of details in this relatively brief scene are incredible.

In an interview, Heath once said that he thought that each love scene contained a story within it (which I think is a lovely idea). The hand holding really does add a level of sweetness to a scene which is (too often) seen as just "rough."

delalluvia · « **Reply #25 on:** April 07, 2006, 10:21:19 pm »

Quote from: hungry_hungryhippos on April 07, 2006, 09:16:09 pm

Righto, we all know the quality of the copy I have in MY possession, but even taking that into account, I don't see the hand thing. $:-\$

My copy is quite dark, probably only a little darker than the cinema version but I can't get a lot of detail out of it. For when I get my hands on a really GOOD quality copy, can someone please tell me exactly what I'm looking for and when?? Someone said earlier in the thread that its right AFTER Jack pounds the floor - but both his hands are on the ground then and it cuts to outside the tent..

A little help??

Hiya hungry,

Watch carefully and try not to get distracted

After the lusty ground pounding, Jack's right hand goes back as he's backing up. That's when it happens. Jack may be trying to hold Ennis in (pant) so the delicious feeling won't stop, trying to get it deeper (pant pant), keep him in (pant pant pant) and Ennis obliges by holding his hand in a display of cooperation and consent in what Jack is doing, a bit of closeness and finally in helping Jack balance on just two knees, one hand and one impalement.

starboardlight · « **Reply #26 on:** April 08, 2006, 03:03:14 am »

Quote from: delalluvia on April 07, 2006, 10:21:19 pm

After the lusty ground pounding, Jack's right hand goes back as he's backing up. That's when it happens. Jack may be trying to hold Ennis in (pant) so the delicious feeling won't stop, trying to get it deeper (pant pant), keep him in (pant pant pant) and Ennis obliges by holding his hand in a display of cooperation and consent in what Jack is doing, a bit of closeness and finally in helping Jack balance on just two knees, one hand and one impalement.

phew. If I'm to get to sleep, I'm gonna need a cold shower, after reading this.

Sheyne · « **Reply #27 on:** April 08, 2006, 03:49:41 am »

Quote from: starboardlight on April 08, 2006, 03:03:14 am

Quote from: delalluvia on April 07, 2006, 10:21:19 pm
After the lusty ground pounding, Jack's right hand goes back as he's backing up. That's when it happens. Jack may be trying to hold Ennis in (pant) so the delicious feeling won't stop, trying to get it deeper (pant pant), keep him in (pant pant pant) and Ennis obliges by holding his hand in a display of cooperation and consent in what Jack is doing, a bit of closeness and finally in helping Jack balance on just two knees, one hand and one impalement.

phew. If I'm to get to sleep, I'm gonna need a cold shower, after reading this.

Oh god... *note to self: check Chez Trembley BEFORE shower in future*

Thanks delalluvia (starboard, you SO read my mind)... Now I know exactly what I'm looking for I'm going to sit in front of this damn computer until I see it.. I actually do see the part where he's up on two knees with the - ahem - impalement (pant x 5), so I'll look for the hand.. I think thus far I have been severly distracted by the extremely audible "hmph" from Jack, as though he's just been on the receiving end of a particularly deep - err - thrust. Now I'm looking for the hand..

*dabs sweat off face, neck and chest*.. Now I'm off to dinner at Ray's place. We might be able to hunt for it together. Bags Sheyne to hold the remote control..

starboardlight · « **Reply #28 on:** April 08, 2006, 03:57:50 am »

shayne, when does the DVD come out for Australia? and when is the movie suppose to leave the theaters?

Ray · « **Reply #29 on:** April 08, 2006, 05:39:59 am »

Hey starboard,

No DVD release date in Australia yet..

I'm dying to get my hot little hands on it.. Till then I've got to make do with amusing Malaysian-subtitled bootlegs.. hehehe

This IS Sheyne, by the way... I'm at Ray's house tonight for dinner and - well - we should have timed how long it would take us to get on this board together!!!! Heheheheee...

ednbarby · « **Reply #30 on:** April 08, 2006, 09:56:34 am »

DAMN, you guys. I just had to go have a cigarette. And I don't even smoke.

serious crayons · « **Reply #31 on:** April 08, 2006, 10:12:29 am »

Hey Sheyne and anyone else who doesn't have a good DVD and hasn't seen the hand holdin, check out the wonderful YouTube video "4 Nights in 20 Years," which is simply four whole great scenes, including TS1 and TS2. That's where I first saw the hands -- in fact, the ONLY place I've seen them; I couldn't detect them in the theater last time. Too dark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZTMBth4-lg&search=brokeback

Lower left corner of the screen, right after Jack pounds the floor.

Sheyne · « **Reply #32 on:** April 08, 2006, 10:55:44 am »

Quote from: latjoreme on April 08, 2006, 10:12:29 am

Hey Sheyne and anyone else who doesn't have a good DVD and hasn't seen the hand holdin, check out the wonderful YouTube video "4 Nights in 20 Years," which is simply four whole great scenes, including TS1 and TS2. That's where I first saw the hands -- in fact, the ONLY place I've seen them; I couldn't detect them in the theater last time. Too dark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZTMBth4-lg&search=brokeback

Lower left corner of the screen, right after Jack pounds the floor.

I'm with Barb... need a cigarette BADLY... (gotta wait four more days till I can download stuff.... stupid broadband contract.. I'm on dialup speed till the 12th..)

Watched it at Ray's tonight, unfortunately his copy was even darker than my "Through the Looking Glass" copy.. $:-\$

Meryl · « **Reply #33 on:** April 08, 2006, 11:28:05 am »

Definitely enjoying this erudite discussion.

I was hoping someone would mention what I've been thinking about the hand-holding. Wouldn't Jack still be interested in putting Ennis's hand on his penis? It seems to me to be where that's heading when the scene ends. I mean, only one gun's gone off at that point......

delalluvia · « **Reply #34 on:** April 08, 2006, 11:32:31 am »

Quote from: meryl on April 08, 2006, 11:28:05 am

Definitely enjoying this erudite discussion. I was hoping someone would mention what I've been thinking about the hand-holding. Wouldn't Jack still be interested in putting Ennis's hand on his penis? It seems to me to be where that's heading when the scene ends. I mean, only one gun's gone off at that point......

Someone suggested that on the big board originally. That the guys weren't holding hands per se, but that Ennis was doing the old 'reach around' to help his lover out and Jack was showing him where to go...Dunno, only you guys can say for sure.

JCinNYC2006 · « **Reply #35 on:** April 08, 2006, 11:38:17 am »

Quote from: meryl on April 08, 2006, 11:28:05 am

Definitely enjoying this erudite discussion. I was hoping someone would mention what I've been thinking about the hand-holding. Wouldn't Jack still be interested in putting Ennis's hand on his penis? It seems to me to be where that's heading when the scene ends. I mean, only one gun's gone off at that point......

That might have been too much for Ennis that early on. For their first encounter it might have been safer to get Ennis off then to try and make Ennis get him off. It's like, it would've implied that he was interested in Jack's dick which could've meant all kinds of things (like he was queer).

Juan

Front-Ranger · « **Reply #36 on:** April 08, 2006, 11:57:28 am »

According to the story, it was Jack's "gun" that went off. If Barb can do it, I don't see why he couldn't!!

Meryl · « **Reply #37 on:** April 08, 2006, 12:11:00 pm »

Quote

Someone suggested that on the big board originally. That the guys weren't holding hands per se, but that Ennis was doing the old 'reach around' to help his lover out and Jack was showing him where to go...

I don't think Ennis would have done that on his own. Jack would have had to guide him.

Quote

That might have been too much for Ennis that early on. For their first encounter it might have been safer to get Ennis off then to try and make Ennis get him off. It's like, it would've implied that he was interested in Jack's dick which could've meant all kinds of things (like he was queer).

I agree, but Jack started out the scene by placing Ennis's hand there. In the heat of the moment, would he be doing all that much reflecting on Ennis's delicate sensibilities?

Front-Ranger · « **Reply #38 on:** April 08, 2006, 12:22:13 pm »

Oh, another clue...why do u suppose Jack was doin the laundry the next day? Because he probably needed both their shirts and all his clothes (hence his nakedness) to mop up the mess!

JCinNYC2006 · « **Reply #39 on:** April 08, 2006, 12:26:01 pm »

Quote from: meryl on April 08, 2006, 12:11:00 pm

Quote
Someone suggested that on the big board originally. That the guys weren't holding hands per se, but that Ennis was doing the old 'reach around' to help his lover out and Jack was showing him where to go...

I don't think Ennis would have done that on his own. Jack would have had to guide him.

Quote
That might have been too much for Ennis that early on. For their first encounter it might have been safer to get Ennis off then to try and make Ennis get him off. It's like, it would've implied that he was interested in Jack's dick which could've meant all kinds of things (like he was queer).

I agree, but Jack started out the scene by placing Ennis's hand there. In the heat of the moment, would he be doing all that much reflecting on Ennis's delicate sensibilities?

I forgot that Jack puts Ennis' hand on his hardon initially. The other thing to remember is that they were both kind of drunk, at least drunk enough to lower inhibitions.

As far as Jack guiding Ennis in, in the story there is that reference to not needing a guide book even though they'd never done it before. In a situation like that so much of it is unspoken...hell I guess that happens with a lot of first time sex in general.

sparkle_motion · « **Reply #40 on:** April 08, 2006, 06:00:03 pm »

Call me a romantic, but I think Jack grabbed Ennis' arm out of excitement and wanting to feel connected to him.

serious crayons · « **Reply #41 on:** April 08, 2006, 06:03:01 pm »

Quote from: sparkle_motion on April 08, 2006, 06:00:03 pm

Call me a romantic, but I think Jack grabbed Ennis' arm out of excitement and wanting to feel connected to him.

Well, I hate to start another debate that could probably grow to rival the sorry/s'alright conflict, but to my eyes it is Ennis grabbing Jack's arm.

Brown Eyes · « **Reply #42 on:** April 11, 2006, 09:28:43 pm »

Well, before the fist pounding, Jack is already reaching back with his right hand (I suppose reaching back for Ennis in some fashion). Then after the fist pounding, it really does look like it's Ennis reaching for Jack's hand. I like that reading better... I think it's more romantic if Ennis is the one initiating that level of intimacy this early on.

And, in regards to the "I ain't no queer" problem... neither one of them has said this to the other yet. It might not have been a concern of Jack's at this point. And, here's a moment (obviously) when that kind of "cover" statement just flies out the window anyway. In my reading of the film (and book) the extreme pleasure that they take in each other physically (AND their intense emotional connections during sex - especially the 2nd tent scene) are meant to show us that the "I ain't no queer" is just a heartbreaking fib. An aspect of being in the closet. Ennis has to work for 20 years to get those words out of his head... but I think when he's physically with Jack, that statement almost has no meaning/ power.

Sheyne · « **Reply #43 on:** April 12, 2006, 06:31:37 am »

I SAW IT!! I SAW IT!! I SAW IT!!! YAY!!

Oh god, how much hotter is this scene now??!?!?!!? Phwoarrrr...

*fans self*

Finally got to download that You Tube clip - 4 nights in 20 years, its a great clip and the tent scene is clear enough and light enough to catch the hands. And now that I have frame-by-framed it all afternoon, I have to venture that Ennis's hand is on "lil Jack". Cause it looks like he is reaching down there the whole time, from the initial penetration to the climax. This is quite obvious from the very quick flash before Jack grabs Ennis's hand with BOTH of his hands. Its clear as a bell where Ennis's hand is ...

*fans self again*

Gotta go watch it again, sorry!!!

Daniel · « **Reply #44 on:** April 12, 2006, 06:39:11 am »

Yes, I went to see it for the last time yesterday in the theatre... Best 50 cents I ever spent...

There was a family in there with young children, and I mean young. I'm thinking like, "Don't you people realize this is rated R for a reason?" Anyway, I warned them shortly before the first tent scene that it might not be appropriate for the younger children, so the mom led the kids out just before it then came back.

The parents also left during the first tent scene, rather noisily I might add, so I managed to miss the hand holding...

The DVD will be arriving today (one of them anyway, I'm still looking for a British DVD in Region 1 Format.. lol, and where the heck is my poster?)

I also didn't see Ennis mouth "I love you" when he holds the two shirts. He just seemed to be breathing heavily, open mouthed, as if in disbelief and painful memory.

Speaking of the two shirts, this has probably already been pointed out, but I find it strangely compelling that the blood stains were at the wrist, just where the nails would have been driven in during the Roman crucifixion. Granted they're not on both sleeves, but it was just some strange thing I wanted to point out.

j.U.d.E. · « **Reply #45 on:** April 12, 2006, 06:48:02 am »

Dam*! Still haven't seen the hand holding! Guess I'll have to download the youtube clip - "4 nights in 20 years", but I'm at work.. oh uh..

~ j U d E

ednbarby · « **Reply #46 on:** April 12, 2006, 09:45:18 am »

Quote from: atz75 on April 11, 2006, 09:28:43 pm

Well, before the fist pounding, Jack is already reaching back with his right hand (I suppose reaching back for Ennis in some fashion). Then after the fist pounding, it really does look like it's Ennis reaching for Jack's hand. I like that reading better... I think it's more romantic if Ennis is the one initiating that level of intimacy this early on.

And, in regards to the "I ain't no queer" problem... neither one of them has said this to the other yet. It might not have been a concern of Jack's at this point. And, here's a moment (obviously) when that kind of "cover" statement just flies out the window anyway. In my reading of the film (and book) the extreme pleasure that they take in each other physically (AND their intense emotional connections during sex - especially the 2nd tent scene) are meant to show us that the "I ain't no queer" is just a heartbreaking fib. An aspect of being in the closet. Ennis has to work for 20 years to get those words out of his head... but I think when he's physically with Jack, that statement almost has no meaning/ power.

:::pounding desk::: YES, YES, YES!!! You've nailed it, Amanda. As usual.

serious crayons · « **Reply #47 on:** April 12, 2006, 12:09:20 pm »

Quote from: ednbarby on April 12, 2006, 09:45:18 am

Quote from: atz75 on April 11, 2006, 09:28:43 pm
Well, before the fist pounding, Jack is already reaching back with his right hand (I suppose reaching back for Ennis in some fashion). Then after the fist pounding, it really does look like it's Ennis reaching for Jack's hand. I like that reading better... I think it's more romantic if Ennis is the one initiating that level of intimacy this early on.

And, in regards to the "I ain't no queer" problem... neither one of them has said this to the other yet. It might not have been a concern of Jack's at this point. And, here's a moment (obviously) when that kind of "cover" statement just flies out the window anyway. In my reading of the film (and book) the extreme pleasure that they take in each other physically (AND their intense emotional connections during sex - especially the 2nd tent scene) are meant to show us that the "I ain't no queer" is just a heartbreaking fib. An aspect of being in the closet. Ennis has to work for 20 years to get those words out of his head... but I think when he's physically with Jack, that statement almost has no meaning/ power.

:::pounding desk::: YES, YES, YES!!! You've nailed it, Amanda. As usual.

(Reaching to hold Barb's hand ...) Yes, I agree too, Amanda! I don't think Jack really means it in the first place; he just says it to reassure Ennis. As for Ennis, I think that when he says "queer," he is talking about a mix of characteristics he associates with the term that he is trying to distinguish in his own mind from what they're doing. But I think the effort causes some cognitive dissonance.

And I like the "Ennis grabs Jack's hand" interpretation better, too. Suggests he is feeling an emotional connection in addition to a physical one.

Brown Eyes · « **Reply #48 on:** April 12, 2006, 11:25:44 pm »

Awww... thanks ednbarby!

And, also thanks latjoreme!

My favorite thing about Ennis and the hand-holding in the first tent scene (and the way he clings- really rather sweetly- to Jack's head while they're both kneeling up) is that throughout the movie the primary way that Ennis expresses love/affection is physically. And so here in their first encounter, he's already displaying love and concern (in addition to the explosive sexual release). He just radiates love in the 2nd tent scene, in the flashback, reunion kiss, etc... and in all those instances the expression of love is physical. It goes without saying that Ennis is more comfortable with physical things than with verbal things. Also, in the motel... when Jack says "Brokeback got us good" Ennis replies by stroking Jack's arm instead of saying anything out loud... It's nice to be able to see the first tent scene in a more complex way too.

Yeah, I'm not sure that Ennis quite knows what he means exactly by the word "queer" or which aspects of that idea he's trying to dissociate from. Lots of confusion for him here. In any case, I think for both Jack and Ennis, saying "I ain't no queer" is simply a tragic form of denial. Jack moves on from this denial relatively easily but Ennis keeps struggling with it until the end... thus causing all that time to be lost in their relationship (I know I keep saying this in different threads... but it breaks my heart $:-\$ ).

Daniel · « **Reply #49 on:** April 12, 2006, 11:39:03 pm »

I have a different interpretation of "I ain't queer." I think Ennis is saying that he doesn't have feelings for men in that way, in that he does not live sexually oriented towards men. I personally believe that attraction occurs on some deeper, spiritual level and has little to do with the way our bodies seem to react to the presence of others nearby. But, then again, perhaps that is the way I am, and it is an intimately personal experience.

In other words, "I'm not homosexual, but I am attracted to you." perhaps. Attraction has always been in my philosophy a deeply personal effect that adds weight and meaning to the universe particularly because it is so individualized and isolated from other experiences of attraction.

Just some thoughts I thought I'd thrown out.

Ellemeno · « **Reply #50 on:** April 13, 2006, 05:26:37 am »

Well, I've been through that scene like the Zapruder film, frame by frame, but my DVD is so dark. I mean my DVDs are so dark, the full screen a little lighter. So then I looked at the YouTube, so much brighter than mine! How come? And I think I see the places/moments you all are talking about, but it's not definitely handholding to me, it's a lumpy blur. Are you guys really positive, can you see it crystal clear?

Sheyne · « **Reply #51 on:** April 13, 2006, 06:39:31 am »

Definitely, Elle. Its there. I was skeptical at first but I've seen it. You've gotta know where to look though. Jack jerks his hand away from Ennis's to pound it on the ground and then as soon as he's pounded, cast your eyes down to the bottom left hand corner of the screen. Its pretty quick but its definitely there. I found it easier when I was looking for Ennis's arm. If you'll notice, the whole time Ennis is... err.. "going at it", his right arm is down holding Jack's hand and he's leaning over Jack's body to do this. Jack pounds on the ground and then Ennis grabs his hand again. Just before they cut to the shot outside the tent, you see it clear as a bell - Jack is kinda up on his haunches and you can see him holding Ennis's hand just across his crotch region - as Ennis "finishes", Jack's OTHER hand comes up to grab Ennis's as well and then they fall forward. The You Tube video of "4 nights in 20 years" shows it very well.

serious crayons · « **Reply #52 on:** April 13, 2006, 11:27:33 am »

What would we do without YouTube, hunh? (Aside from, in my case, getting MUCH more work done over the past few months.)

And Elle, I love your Zapruder film reference. Do you think the Warren Commission gave their subject anywhere near as much scrutiny as the people on this board have ours?

Quote from: atz75 on April 12, 2006, 11:25:44 pm

My favorite thing about Ennis and the hand-holding in the first tent scene (and the way he clings- really rather sweetly- to Jack's head while they're both kneeling up) is that throughout the movie the primary way that Ennis expresses love/affection is physically. And so here in their first encounter, he's already displaying love and concern (in addition to the explosive sexual release). He just radiates love in the 2nd tent scene, in the flashback, reunion kiss, etc... and in all those instances the expression of love is physical. It goes without saying that Ennis is more comfortable with physical things than with verbal things. Also, in the motel... when Jack says "Brokeback got us good" Ennis replies by stroking Jack's arm instead of saying anything out loud... It's nice to be able to see the first tent scene in a more complex way too.

So funny, Amanda! I just finished posting something on the "Ennis' non-vomiting" thread about the very issue of Ennis' verbal vs. nonverbal emotional expression! Check it out; sounds like you and I closely agree on this point (so what else is new?).

Ellemeno · « **Reply #53 on:** April 13, 2006, 12:43:16 pm »

>> And Elle, I love your Zapruder film reference. Do you think the Warren Commission gave their subject anywhere near as much scrutiny as the people on this board have ours?

Doubt it. They didn't WANT to find all the missing pieces. We could all start a forensics business - as long as what the client wanted was for us to investigate something BBM-associated.

Brown Eyes · « **Reply #54 on:** May 18, 2006, 12:00:07 am »

just bumping!

vkm91941 · « **Reply #55 on:** May 18, 2006, 03:17:16 am »

Quote

The Story Ennis had an erection of his own the first night in the tent and the evidence of the "clear slick" was also proof that he was sexually attracted to Jack. In the book, before Jack and Ennis had sex, they had deepened intimacy before Ennis had his left hand siezed by Jack to be put on Jack's erection.

Excellent point Joe Allen, Ennis had to have been seriously aroused for "clear slick" to have even present to assist him with his lubrication. That's a point I haven't heard anyone make in along time. Also you are correct. Anne P tells us they shared the Bedroll and the intimacy deepened considerably....I can very well imagine it did since it had been obvious for sometime they were attracted to each other. Nature simply took it course and the alcohol had removed enough Ennis's inhibitions for him to act on nature.

Aussie Chris · « **Reply #56 on:** May 18, 2006, 05:13:56 am »

Quote from: Joe Allen Doty on May 18, 2006, 02:47:14 am

If a man says, "I'm not homosexual, but I am sexually attracted to you" to another man, he is unwittingly admitting that he is at least a bisexual.

Those men who are exclusively heterosexual in their sexual orientation do not experience below-the-belt, behind-the-pubic-bone, in-the-area-of-the-prostated physiological sexual attraction feelings directed toward another man. The Story Ennis had an erection of his own the first night in the tent and the evidence of the "clear slick" was also proof that he was sexually attracted to Jack. In the book, before Jack and Ennis had sex, they had deepened intimacy before Ennis had his left hand siezed by Jack to be put on Jack's erection.

This is very interesting JAD, I missed the clear slick in my first read of the book. I was reading it again today though, and I want to ask you a question about the "deepened intimacy" sequence in the book. You've mentioned a couple of times that there was deepened intimacy before they had sex, and I think you mean that there was a level of intimacy between the time Ennis enters the tent but before the sex. Say, stolen glances or an "accidental" brush of a leg? When I read this sequence again today I asked myself was AP really suggesting that something else happened here to deepen the intimacy (something that was not filmed), or did the "deepened intimacy" simply refer to the sex itself? Read it again and tell me what you think/mean by deepened intimacy.

twistedude · « **Reply #57 on:** May 18, 2006, 05:29:46 am »

Ennis is in fact looking down to avoid Jack's mouth, and Jack is looking at his mouth, whiCh he'd like to kiss, but isn't gping to msakeTOO a big deal out of just now. It is Jack who grabs Ennis's hand, twiCe. FiRst. his wrist (you can clearly see the bluie cuff on the grabbing hand), and then, right before his head collapses on the tent foor, he brings his other hand across his body, and grabs the back of Ennis's hand with that hand as well. Ennis never grabs a hand. You might make out a case for the first grab being for balance, but--the second one?

I have spoken!

Aussie Chris · « **Reply #58 on:** May 18, 2006, 05:54:51 am »

Quote from: julie01 on May 18, 2006, 05:29:46 am

I have spoken!

Wow Julie, assertive-much!

Sheyne · « **Reply #59 on:** May 18, 2006, 06:49:53 am »

Something tells me Ennis is reaching down for Jack's hand while they're going at it..

Jack may grab Ennis's hand after the pounding, but Ennis reaches down after he puts lil Ennis - ahem - in.

serious crayons · « **Reply #60 on:** May 18, 2006, 08:31:59 am »

Looks like "who grabs whose hand" may wind up joining "sorry/s'alright" in the Unsolved Mysteries file. For the record, my vote is with Ennis grabbing Jack's hand, partly because that seems more romantic to me and partly because that's just what it looks like to me. As for Sheyne's view from her post a month ago that it's not Jack's hand he's grabbing, well, I haven't seen anything to indicate that but, believe me, I will keep a sharp eye out next time I watch.

Regarding the deepened intimacy, starboardlight recenly started a whole nother thread, still active I think, discussing this same subject. And the clear slick question? Well, I'm no expert, so maybe JAD or someone else can fill me in, but couldn't the time from when they both jolted up in the tent and Ennis realized Jack's intentions and responded to them, couldn't that have been enough time for that, uh, process to work?

Aussie Chris · « **Reply #61 on:** May 18, 2006, 09:15:11 am »

Quote from: latjoreme on May 18, 2006, 08:31:59 am

Regarding the deepened intimacy, starboardlight recenly started a whole nother thread, still active I think, discussing this same subject. And the clear slick question? Well, I'm no expert, so maybe JAD or someone else can fill me in, but couldn't the time from when they both jolted up in the tent and Ennis realized Jack's intentions and responded to them, couldn't that have been enough time for that, uh, process to work?

Yup, that's what I was thinking Katherine, especially if we consider that they were "warming up" to each other all night. Is it me, or is it getting a little hot in here?

Oh and by the way, I'll be sure to check out starboardlight's other thread, ta!

serious crayons · « **Reply #62 on:** May 18, 2006, 12:45:47 pm »

Quote from: Aussie Chris on May 18, 2006, 09:15:11 am

Yup, that's what I was thinking Katherine, especially if we consider that they were "warming up" to each other all night. Is it me, or is it getting a little hot in here?

No, not just you, Chris, it definitely IS getting hot in here.

Brown Eyes · « **Reply #63 on:** May 19, 2006, 12:08:34 am »

Tell you what... I think they grab each other's hand. It's a mutual/ reciprocal action. At the very least... if Ennis isn't reaching for Jack's hand specifically, then he goes so far as to put his hand in a position where it's available to be grabbed. And, towards the beginning of the *action* Jack is reaching back already with his right hand (the hand closest to the viewer). Is he already reaching to hold Ennis's hand?

starboardlight · « **Reply #64 on:** May 19, 2006, 11:41:57 am »

Quote from: latjoreme on May 18, 2006, 08:31:59 am

Well, I'm no expert, so maybe JAD or someone else can fill me in, but couldn't the time from when they both jolted up in the tent and Ennis realized Jack's intentions and responded to them, couldn't that have been enough time for that, uh, process to work?

well, there's no evidence in the film or the story for or against what I'm about to suggest, but it could have worked. While Ennis is lying there, perhaps in semi-sleep semi-conscious state, his side is touching Jack's. He would have been already aroused, and just lying there with an erection but not knowing what to do about it. I don't know about you, but when I suddenly find myself lying side by side with someone I've been eyeing for weeks, sleep doesn't come so easily. I imagine that they were both at least half-awake, if not fully awake at that point. And especially if you're half-awake, the body chemistry just does it's thing without inhibition. I think that even before Jack grabbed his hands, Ennis was already producing "clear slick".

Aussie Chris · « **Reply #65 on:** May 20, 2006, 12:43:41 am »

Quote from: Joe Allen Doty on May 19, 2006, 09:43:16 pm

According to what she wrote, I would say, as a man who has camped out with men, that Jack knew that Ennis already had an erection before he seized Ennis's LEFT hand. Jack might have already felt the clear slick on the head of Ennis's penis.

I really don't agree with this Joe, that Ennis had an erection before Jack took his hand, or even if he did, that Jack would know about it. I think you put a lot of emphasise on the deepened intimacy, and assume that it means that there was some kind of foreplay going on prior to Jack taking Ennis' hand. I still see quite a bit of spontaneity in this scene (both in the book and the film). Just IMHO of course.

Aussie Chris · « **Reply #66 on:** May 20, 2006, 02:36:48 am »

Quote from: Joe Allen Doty on May 20, 2006, 01:38:22 am

But, knowing the character of Annie Proulx's original Ennis Del Mar and observing what the Movie Jack did, which was rather awkward, in reaching behind himself and across Ennis's body to grab Ennis's left hand, I would say that the AP Ennis would not have had sex with Jack at all, he would have given Jack an attitude adjustment by slugging him with his fist instead.

I guess so.

Quote

While we both speak English, you don't speak American English; but, I don't speak Australian English either.

What a load of rubbish. Are you trying to tell me "deepened intimacy" means something special to americans? Spare me please.

serious crayons · « **Reply #67 on:** May 20, 2006, 10:30:51 am »

Quote from: Aussie Chris on May 20, 2006, 02:36:48 am

What a load of rubbish. Are you trying to tell me "deepened intimacy" means something special to americans? Spare me please.

Yes. "Deepened intimacy" is Americanese for reaching back and grabbing somebody's left hand and placing it on your genitals. What, you've never heard that one, Chris?

Rayn · « **Reply #68 on:** May 20, 2006, 11:53:25 am »

"...he wanted none of it when Jack seized his left hand and brought it to his erect cock. Ennis jerked his hand away as though he'd touched fire, got to his knees, unbuckled his belt, shoved his pants down, hauled Jack onto all fours and..." Had sex with him! I think the above is the odd thing about the first tent scene and about Ennis himself. First he "wanted none of it" then he pulls his jeans off hauls Jack into position and enters him! It's odd and almost funny when you think of the quick switch he made. Anyone got anything to say that can explain that more? I think it's a show of how conflicted Ennis really is... His head says no, but his cock say yes, his fears say no, but in the end his heart said yes...

Rayn

Front-Ranger · « **Reply #69 on:** May 20, 2006, 12:01:49 pm »

What Proulx meant by "he would have none of it" was that Ennis went "full throttle" not halfway whenever he did something, so when Jack provided the opportunity to "sin" he would not go only halfway with his hand but instead put all of himself into it.

Rayn · « **Reply #70 on:** May 20, 2006, 02:03:32 pm »

Quote from: Front-Ranger on May 20, 2006, 12:01:49 pm

What Proulx meant by "he would have none of it" was that Ennis went "full throttle" not halfway whenever he did something, so when Jack provided the opportunity to "sin" he would not go only halfway with his hand but instead put all of himself into it.

Good point, yeah, I got the "full throttle" thing, but what throws me still is... " Ennis jerked his hand away as though he'd touched fire," ... that makes me think that he wanted "none of it"....meaning he didn't want to have sex with a guy, but you may be right Front Ranger. It's still a bit odd to me, but thanks man.

Rayn

Ray · « **Reply #71 on:** May 20, 2006, 02:39:11 pm »

Quote from: latjoreme on May 20, 2006, 10:30:51 am

Yes. "Deepened intimacy" is Americanese for reaching back and grabbing somebody's left hand and placing it on your genitals. What, you've never heard that one, Chris?

Hahahaha Yeh Chris, have you gone dotty?!

Rayn · « **Reply #72 on:** May 20, 2006, 02:47:27 pm »

Now boys... come on.. lay off Aussie Chris. He's ok, a pretty good guy, least he's been ok to me. Cut him some slack, huh?

Rayn

serious crayons · « **Reply #73 on:** May 20, 2006, 04:22:33 pm »

Quote from: Rayn on May 20, 2006, 02:47:27 pm

Now boys... come on.. lay off Aussie Chris. He's ok, a pretty good guy, least he's been ok to me. Cut him some slack, huh?

Rayn

Chris is a great guy, one of the nicest people here. I wasn't teasing him.

Rayn · « **Reply #74 on:** May 20, 2006, 05:08:48 pm »

All right then... I'm happy too.

Rayn

Aussie Chris · « **Reply #75 on:** May 20, 2006, 07:22:02 pm »

Quote from: Rayn on May 20, 2006, 05:08:48 pm

All right then... I'm happy too.

Aw shucks, thanks everyone. And Katherine, I laughed when I read this (I was even thinking the same thing):

Quote

Yes. "Deepened intimacy" is Americanese for reaching back and grabbing somebody's left hand and placing it on your genitals. What, you've never heard that one, Chris?

You too Ray, you cheeky sod!

kirkmusic · « **Reply #76 on:** May 21, 2006, 06:00:19 am »

I love non-American English speakers for expressions like "cheeky sod."

A thought on Ennis' state of arousal: not that it has ever been mentioned anywhere by any of the writers BUT, it seems like they've been asleep for awhile and they had been drinking so it's possible that Ennis had one of those early morning full-bladder erections in the middle of the night. So maybe it wouldn't take too much for the clear slick to be produced in an already erect penis. Just looking for answers.

I also like the suggestion of merely being in the tent together as being enough to get aroused, even if asleep. It was obviously enough for Jack.

This sort of reminds me of a tradition in comic book letters pages wherein if a reader sees an obvious mistake in a storyline, they get a special mention if, when mentioning the mistake, they also provide an explanation for it.

starboardlight · « **Reply #77 on:** May 21, 2006, 01:46:53 pm »

Quote from: kirkmusic on May 21, 2006, 06:00:19 am

I also like the suggestion of merely being in the tent together as being enough to get aroused, even if asleep. It was obviously enough for Jack.

how many of you have played that game, when sitting together with someone you like, you lightly touch knees, or brush your arms against his/hers, wait to see if they move or reciprocate. There's a scene in Billy's Hollywood Screen Kisses, where the two men play this out in bed. I totally think that Jack and Ennis was playing this before Jack finally grabbed Ennis's hand. Some one way back on IMBD said that the scene showed quite a bit of tent floor to Jack's right, suggesting that he scooted close to Ennis, rubbing up against him during the night. It's a very likely explanation of how that scene began.

Brown Eyes · « **Reply #78 on:** May 21, 2006, 02:44:37 pm »

Quote from: starboardlight on May 21, 2006, 01:46:53 pm

Some one way back on IMBD said that the scene showed quite a bit of tent floor to Jack's right, suggesting that he scooted close to Ennis, rubbing up against him during the night. It's a very likely explanation of how that scene began.

Sure, the camera focuses on the amount of extra floor space in the tent after cutting back inside following the moonlight shot. I definitely think Jack deliberately cuddled up.

serious crayons · « **Reply #79 on:** May 21, 2006, 06:18:08 pm »

Quote from: atz75 on May 21, 2006, 02:44:37 pm

Sure, the camera focuses on the amount of extra floor space in the tent after cutting back inside following the moonlight shot. I definitely think Jack deliberately cuddled up.

It's funny, when I see them together they don't look that much closer, but I always assume the camera focusing on the empty space is supposed to be a tipoff.

Quote from: starboardlight on May 21, 2006, 01:46:53 pm

how many of you have played that game, when sitting together with someone you like, you lightly touch knees, or brush your arms against his/hers, wait to see if they move or reciprocate.

Cute description! Yes, you're probably right. And by the way, this is how I read the scene where they push each other after Ennis shoots the elk.

Aussie Chris · « **Reply #80 on:** May 22, 2006, 06:13:38 am »

Quote from: starboardlight on May 21, 2006, 01:46:53 pm

Some one way back on IMBD said that the scene showed quite a bit of tent floor to Jack's right, suggesting that he scooted close to Ennis, rubbing up against him during the night. It's a very likely explanation of how that scene began.

Oooh, cool, I know I said this way back in February, many others probably did too, but it's nice when something you said comes back! Yes indeed, Jack is clearly shown to make room as Ennis enters the tentt, so when we re-enter the tent (after checking out the moon), the camera pan serves no other purpose than to show they are much closer right before the (ehem) reach-around! I've always wondered how long they were in the tent together before this moment. Was it only a few seconds? I think it would have been maybe as long as 20 or 30 minutes, long enough for Jack to "innocently" scoot across a couple of times. Or maybe it was less subtle then that? Not so innocent?

Front-Ranger · « **Reply #81 on:** February 06, 2007, 06:55:07 pm »

For a new crop of viewers.

adrian · « **Reply #82 on:** February 06, 2007, 08:02:17 pm »

Quote from: Front-Ranger on February 06, 2007, 06:55:07 pm

For a new crop of viewers.

And me too. I never noticed the hand holding.

Thanks!

Cameron · « **Reply #83 on:** February 06, 2007, 08:09:36 pm »

I came across this thread a couple of weeks ago when I was reading older threads.

I didn't get the hand holding really till I read this although I did pick up something on the bottom left

It is amazing how it totally changed my view of TS1. That little gesture does add so much tenderness.

And what also got me is how it TS 1 they hold each other's heads with theire foreheads together.

Just like in TS 2 and the Reunion, and there it was, already in TS 1.

Brown Eyes · « **Reply #84 on:** February 06, 2007, 08:10:28 pm »

This is such a great detail (and a fun old thread). The DVD release certainly did lead to lots of discoveries of details that were easily overlooked in theater viewings.

Front-Ranger · « **Reply #85 on:** February 06, 2007, 08:25:53 pm »

Quote from: adrian.delmar on February 06, 2007, 08:02:17 pm

And me too. I never noticed the hand holding.

Thanks!

Adrian, and how many times have you seen the movie?

adrian · « **Reply #86 on:** February 06, 2007, 09:02:47 pm »

Quote from: Front-Ranger on February 06, 2007, 08:25:53 pm

Adrian, and how many times have you seen the movie?

Uh, just once. . . . . . . (this week).

Blame Ang Lee for directing my attention elsewhere!

Brown Eyes · « **Reply #87 on:** September 19, 2008, 11:35:22 pm »

Bumping because this has become a hot-topic again in another thread over in the Remembrance forum lately.

Front-Ranger · « **Reply #88 on:** September 19, 2008, 11:37:10 pm »

Quote from: atz75 on September 19, 2008, 11:35:22 pm

Bumping because this has become a hot-topic again in another thread over in the Remembrance forum lately

Thanks, friend. You are a good "bumper"!!

Brown Eyes · « **Reply #89 on:** September 20, 2008, 12:16:55 am »

Quote from: Front-Ranger on September 19, 2008, 11:37:10 pm

Thanks, friend. You are a good "bumper"!!

Thanks Lee, it really is fun to look at these old threads sometimes. A lot of great words of Brokie-wisdom being exchanged in those early days of discovery.

And, for the sake of completing the circle... I'll post a link to the thread over in the Heath Remembrance forum that's taken a serious turn towards the hand-holding/TS1 topic. LOL, it's actually the thread about The Dark Knight with Spoilers. The conversation somehow turned to whether BBM is better in widescreen or fullscreen and then the hand-holding topic came up. It's been going on for about 3 pages starting here:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,21558.msg399809.html#msg399809

And, I of course also posted a link to this old CT thread over there... so now the circle really is complete.

optom3 · « **Reply #90 on:** September 20, 2008, 11:18:00 am »

Quote from: atz75 on September 20, 2008, 12:16:55 am

Thanks Lee, it really is fun to look at these old threads sometimes. A lot of great words of Brokie-wisdom being exchanged in those early days of discovery.

And, for the sake of completing the circle... I'll post a link to the thread over in the Heath Remembrance forum that's taken a serious turn towards the hand-holding/TS1 topic. LOL, it's actually the thread about The Dark Knight with Spoilers. The conversation somehow turned to whether BBM is better in widescreen or fullscreen and then the hand-holding topic came up. It's been going on for about 3 pages starting here:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,21558.msg399809.html#msg399809

And, I of course also posted a link to this old CT thread over there... so now the circle really is complete.

How apt, that almost every thread eventually wends its circuitous way, back to BBM. It really is the epi center of all things Heath, no matter how much we may love and laud his other performances, the lure of BBM remains irresistible.

Gabreya · « **Reply #91 on:** September 20, 2008, 06:48:36 pm »

Yes. His performance in this movie is simply irresistable. It's his role of a lifetime and he did a wonderful job.

And I'm guilty for kind of bumping the topic on the "Dark Knight with spoilers" thread on the Heath Remembrance forum. But I was getting a bit confused. I knew that they were holding hands in the scene but since it was so darn dark and the hands were kind of offscreen, I couldn't tell who grabbed whose hand.

Hmm.

Katie77 · « **Reply #92 on:** September 21, 2008, 06:56:59 pm »

Just when I thought I knew every bloody scene, smile, kiss and eyebrow raise in BBM.....I discover something else.

Obviously, I have watched TS1 over and over again........and I guess my eyes have always been diverted away from the hands, because I have never noticed the hand holding.

I will have the DVD playing within in the hour, to watch it again.

And yes, isn't it interesting reading those old threads. I wonder where a lot of those members are now, and if they are still obsessed with the movie. My guess, is they would be.

Oh, I remember the scramble back then to get the DVD so we could see the movie frame by frame, with more light for those scenes that were too dark at the movies, and to bring Jack and Ennis into our homes. It felt like we cemented the friendship with them, once they were in our own personal space, and we could see them whenever we wanted to.

Gabreya · « **Reply #93 on:** September 26, 2008, 12:09:22 am »

Quote from: Katie77 on September 21, 2008, 06:56:59 pm

Just when I thought I knew every bloody scene, smile, kiss and eyebrow raise in BBM.....I discover something else.

Obviously, I have watched TS1 over and over again........and I guess my eyes have always been diverted away from the hands, because I have never noticed the hand holding.

I will have the DVD playing within in the hour, to watch it again.

And yes, isn't it interesting reading those old threads. I wonder where a lot of those members are now, and if they are still obsessed with the movie. My guess, is they would be.

Oh, I remember the scramble back then to get the DVD so we could see the movie frame by frame, with more light for those scenes that were too dark at the movies, and to bring Jack and Ennis into our homes. It felt like we cemented the friendship with them, once they were in our own personal space, and we could see them whenever we wanted to.

Ditto.

Monika · « **Reply #94 on:** December 27, 2008, 09:25:08 pm »

Great thread!

I just re-watched the movie but I still can´t see any tender hand holding though. All I can see is Jack grabbing Ennis´ hand (forcefully so) and shoving it up to his...well..private parts. I doubt that Ennis would have touched it without a little help....

but maybe I´m just too distracted by other things. Next time I´ll turn off the sound and just look with my right eye open

Front-Ranger · « **Reply #95 on:** December 27, 2008, 09:41:46 pm »

Quote from: buffymon on December 27, 2008, 09:25:08 pm

Great thread!

I just re-watched the movie but I still can´t see any tender hand holding though. All I can see is Jack grabbing Ennis´ hand (forcefully so) and shoving it up to his...well..private parts. I doubt that Ennis would have touched it without a little help....

Yes, that happened, but earlier. After they bolted upright and then Ennis turned him 'round, pulled down his jeans, and entered him, Jack started huffing and puffing, and then when they were nearing the climax, Ennis grabbed his hand to steady him...probably pretty intense for Jack with nothin' but spit!!

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Author Topic: Saw the Hand Holdin'. (Read 31549 times)

EnnisDelMar

dmmb_Mandy

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vkm91941