Why wait four effing years?

[isabelle]

I am sorry if this has been discussed before, and please let me know (and send me packing if it has), but I do not remember:

I wonder why Jack had to wait four years before he got in touch with Ennis again.

Any thoughts on this? Nothing I can think of sounds very convincing to me.

[serious crayons]

I am sorry if this has been discussed before, and please let me know (and send ma packing) if it has, but I do not remember:

Send you packing, are you kidding? Isabelle, I'm so glad to see you around!

Unfortunately, I don't have a great answer. I guess if anything, I would say Jack probably assumed it was over after they parted in Signal, especially when Ennis didn't show up the following summer. So he went about trying to make a life for himself. Except everything he tried -- rodeoin, Jimbo, marriage -- was unsuccessful or unsatisfying. Finally, stuck in an unexciting marriage, working for obnoxious in-laws, he probably got desperate or brave enough to take another shot at Ennis. His postcard implies he will just happen to be passing through town on the 24th en route to something else, but after receiving Ennis' encouraging "YOU BET" response, it sure doesn't look like Jack has anywhere else in mind.

[isabelle]

Thanks Katherine  ; that's right, he must have felt he ought to simply forget about Ennis after being told to get lost by Aguirre.

Isn't ironical that we tend to (or I do) get in touch again with old flames once we feel it's safe (ongoing relationship, maybe kids), so that it won't look like "hey baby, it's me! Will you take me back? Like, right now?".

Makes sense.

[serious crayons]

Isn't ironical that we tend to (or I do) get in touch again with old flames once we feel it's safe (ongoing relationship, maybe kids), so that it won't look like "hey baby, it's me! Will you take me back? Like, right now?"

So true. And yet, often we're secretly thinking that, hunh? I mean, we don't get in touch with old flames -- at least, I don't -- while delirious with happiness in my current relationship.

[Daniel]

I think it was because there was a sense of finality in their last parting, even though Jack said: "Well, see ya around." Ennis's reply was hardly committal. I also think that Jack didn't realize how in love he was with Ennis until after he had spent some time on Rodeo tour, as per Meditation 27 of the Daily Meditations.

[Brown Eyes]

His postcard implies he will just happen to be passing through town on the 24th en route to something else, but after receiving Ennis' encouraging "YOU BET" response, it sure doesn't look like Jack has anywhere else in mind.

Heya,

I think he tried to make the postcard seem off-hand and casual (in saying that he's only passing through with the implication that he's on his way to his parents' house probably- which would ring true to Ennis) in order to save a little face.  If Ennis never replied or sent back something negative or a rejection, he at least wouldn't look like he had placed too much weight on the idea of the get-together in the first place.  It's easy to imagine, though, that in reality back in Texas he probably agonized over exactly the right thing to write (spelling mistakes not withstanding) and over how to strike exactly the right tone (casual, yet positive and friendly).   We know that Jack is already thinking about the cow and calf operation by the time he writes the postcard (I assume his campfire suggestion/ or in the motel bed in the story, wasn't entirely spontaneous).  He seems to have been gambling that Ennis was as miserable as he had been.

On the topic of why 4 years... it's a good question, and you're right that it's hard to come up with a great answer as to why.  I think we're on the right track with the combination of ideas suggested here: (1) feeling like things really were over with Ennis upon the return to Signal (2) trying to make a go of his life on his own (3) feeling desparate by the time 4 years had rolled around since his Texas life wasn't what he hoped and (4) this good idea suggested in this thread that somehow 4 years felt a little safe or like enough time had passed for emotions to have cooled down (this is clearly not true... but in a good way of course).  But, it's interesting that Jack seems to have arrived in Riverton with a bit of confidence (it only took Ennis's smile on the balcony... even before th kiss) to demonstrate that Jack's gamble over reconnecting was spot-on. 

[serious crayons]

I think he tried to make the postcard seem off-hand and casual (in saying that he's only passing through with the implication that he's on his way to his parents' house probably- which would ring true to Ennis) in order to save a little face.  If Ennis never replied or sent back something negative or a rejection, he at least wouldn't look like he had placed too much weight on the idea of the get-together in the first place.  It's easy to imagine, though, that in reality back in Texas he probably agonized over exactly the right thing to write (spelling mistakes not withstanding) and over how to strike exactly the right tone (casual, yet positive and friendly).   We know that Jack is already thinking about the cow and calf operation by the time he writes the postcard (I assume his campfire suggestion/ or in the motel bed in the story, wasn't entirely spontaneous).  He seems to have been gambling that Ennis was as miserable as he had been.

That sounds exactly right, Amanda.

[BBM-Cat]

Just wondering if anyone else has this experience while watching BBM with the particular line Jack utters at the reunion camping scene to Ennis, "every 4 fuckin' years?".... the inflection or tone of the sentence always sounds so out of character to me - not the content, but the way it sounds. I always think that we hear Jake and not Jack at that crucial moment. It hits me every time I watch the movie like a bad note.

Tell me if I'm just crazy. 

[mvansand76]

Just wondering if anyone else has this experience while watching BBM with the particular line Jack utters at the reunion camping scene to Ennis, "every 4 fuckin' years?".... the inflection or tone of the sentence always sounds so out of character to me - not the content, but the way it sounds. I always think that we hear Jake and not Jack at that crucial moment. It hits me every time I watch the movie like a bad note.

Tell me if I'm just crazy. 

You are not crazy, I have the same feeling when I watch it, I think it's the timing, it doesn't feel completely right, it's the pause before he says "every four fuckin years?" that makes the line not feel genuine to me.

[Scott6373]

On the original question:  I've said this all along, and occasionally it needs repeating.  Objectively viewed, this film is a period piece.  We cannot inflict out modern day sensibilities on the actions of these two (or any other) characters. It's quite easy for us to sit here and say "why didn't he?", or "why didn't they?", but the fact remains that their behavior and consequent actions were in perfect agreement with the social and political times.

We can't lull ourselves into a false sense of outrage at what they did or didn't do, because for them, these options did not exist.  Let me relate a story to illustrate.  My sister-in-law's brother passed away.  Natrurally my partmer and I went to the wake (which was held some distance away).  Upon arriving, I noticed a man at the other end of the room who looked familiar.  He was someone who both Rick and I had seen at several get to-gathers that were held by a friend of ours (completely unrelated to my sister-in-law or her family, so it was a real case of worlds colliding.  We knew that Bruce (the deceased) was gay as it was common knowledge.  I asked Rick if he had ever been introduced to this guy at one of the parties we had been at, and he said no. Since I gad not been either, I asked my brother-in-law who it was.  He said that it was Bruce's significant other.  Ok, no big deal.  Since I had never been introduced I felt odd about just going up and saying "Don't I know you" so I didn't.

The next day I called my friend (who hosted these get to-gathers) and described him.  She said "Oh yeah, that's my cousin Brian."  I asked why she never mentioned her cousin was gay, and she said "He's not".  I backed off that very quickly, but later that night, my sister-in-law called and asked (at Brian's request) that we not talk to his cousin about this as he was not out and was too afraid for anyone to find out.  This man is single and in his 40's.  When did this happen?  Two weeks ago.  If this level of fear still exists today, imagine what it was like back in the sixties, or even the eighties.   That's why it is very important to view the mens actions in the context of the times they happened in.

[Jeff Wrangler]

On the original question:  I've said this all along, and occasionally it needs repeating.  Objectively viewed, this film is a period piece.  We cannot inflict out modern day sensibilities on the actions of these two (or any other) characters. It's quite easy for us to sit here and say "why didn't he?", or "why didn't they?", but the fact remains that there behavior and consequent actions were in perfect agreement with the social and political times.

A very salutary reminder, Scott. And to your point about "the social and political times," I would only add the real estate mantra: Location, location, location. Even at the time the story begins, or when Ennis and Jack reunite after four years, Wyoming, or, really, virtually any small town or rural locale in America, was not New York's Greenwich Village, or San Francisco.

[Katie77]

You have to remember too, that when Jack and Ennis parted, Ennis was about to get married to Alma, so Jack had to be careful that he was not going to intrude on what may have been a comfortable life for Ennis......after four years, he could just visit him like "an old fishin' buddy" with no strings attached....

Even getting the reply postcard with "you bet", I still doubt, that Jack would have thought Ennis would attack him like he did, with that kiss.....I think he was telling it how it really was, when he said in the motel that he didnt think they would get into "it" again, although he was hoping like hell it might.

When you see the look on Jacks face, when Ennis holds him and kisses him, he is surprised, but then returns the same kind of kiss, but I doubt whether he would have intiitiated it, if Ennis hadn't.

[Jeff Wrangler]

I'm inclined to agree with you, Katie.

I think, when Jack sent his postcard, he was probably already planning one of his periodic trips to see his folks up in Lightning Flat, and when he succeeded in contacting Ennis, he built a detour to Riverton into his itinerary, so to speak.

I also think there are complex things going on inside of Jack here. I do NOT think he had a deliberate plan to "seduce" Ennis. I think his "Swear to God ... yeah, I did," comment indicates that he had been trying to suppress and deny to himself that he wanted to reconnect with Ennis--or how much he wanted to reconnect with Ennis--and he had tried to force himself not to look for anything more than buying an old buddy a beer. So I agree that I don't think Jack would have slammed Ennis up against the wall if Ennis hadn't made the first move. But in the motel he has to admit both to Ennis and to himself that he really wanted very badly to hook up with Ennis again. It's a great moment of self-honesty for Jack.

I agree that he was happily surprised when Ennis slammed him up against that wall and kissed him. I'd say that in that scene, Jake/Jack even looks a little shocked to discover that Ennis wants it as badly as he does.

[Katie77]

I agree that he was happily surprised when Ennis slammed him up against that wall and kissed him. I'd say that in that scene, Jake/Jack even looks a little shocked to discover that Ennis wants it as badly as he does.

"happily surprised" is an understatement.....I think for the first time, Jack saw Ennis as wanting and needing as much as he did.....and he loved it.....

[nakymaton]

I agree that he was happily surprised when Ennis slammed him up against that wall and kissed him. I'd say that in that scene, Jake/Jack even looks a little shocked to discover that Ennis wants it as badly as he does.

"Happily surprised" is a pretty mild way to put it. I'd say... ecstatic, elated, blown away... I'm not sure the words exist to convey that feeling. Which may be why there are metaphors.

[BBM-Cat]

You are not crazy, I have the same feeling when I watch it, I think it's the timing, it doesn't feel completely right, it's the pause before he says "every four fuckin years?" that makes the line not feel genuine to me.

Thanks for the affirmation!    Seriously, it was nice to read that someone else experienced this as well.

[Ellemeno]

Here's where Jack decided it was futile to give his all to his marriage and to contact Ennis.  In the first shot, Jack is still trying.  The middle shot shows, as Ennis says about himself later, "No more room for me."  In the third shot, he sees it's futile to try to find a place in this family.  It's the scene right before Ennis comes home to find his first postcard from Jack.

[Jeff Wrangler]

In the third shot, he (Jack) sees it's futile to try to find a place in this family.  It's the scene right before Ennis comes home to find his first postcard from Jack.

Hunh.  I never made that connection, before, 'bout the juxtaposition of the scenes, I mean. Thanks, Clarissa! 

[mvansand76]

Here's where Jack decided it was futile to give his all to his marriage and to contact Ennis.  In the first shot, Jack is still trying.  The middle shot shows, as Ennis says about himself later, "No more room for me."  In the third shot, he sees it's futile to try to find a place in this family.  It's the scene right before Ennis comes home to find his first postcard from Jack.

I always wondered why he still waited 8 months to contact Ennis! Gather up the courage? Doesn't seem like a Jack-thing to wait and think this over for 8 months.

[Jeff Wrangler]

I always wondered why he still waited 8 months to contact Ennis! Gather up the courage? Doesn't seem like a Jack-thing to wait and think this over for 8 months.

Maybe it was within that eight months that he heard Ennis was in Riverton? 

[Ellemeno]

I always wondered why he still waited 8 months to contact Ennis! Gather up the courage? Doesn't seem like a Jack-thing to wait and think this over for 8 months.

Yeah, that part I haven't figured out. 

Except that I hear an echo of Mr. Twist saying, "Like most of Jack's ideas, it never come to pass."  Maybe this one almost didn't come to pass either, and then one night Jack actually wrote the postcard and mailed it.

[Ellemeno]

I forgot to say in my post with the pictures that there is a picture most of us have probably seen, of Lureen, Bobby, and JACK sitting on the bed.  That never made it into the movie, I think to emphasize that the Stud Duck didn't allow him room on the bed or in the intimate family circle.

Does anybody know where that pic is?  Sad it isn't included.  But understandable.

[mvansand76]

Yeah, that part I haven't figured out. 

Except that I hear an echo of Mr. Twist saying, "Like most of Jack's ideas, it never come to pass."  Maybe this one almost didn't come to pass either, and then one night Jack actually wrote the postcard and mailed it.

Hmmm... I never thought of that, that's a good point you're making!

[Katie77]

Maybe it was within that eight months that he heard Ennis was in Riverton? 

Ever wondered how Jack "heard" Ennis was in Riverton?

[Jeff Wrangler]

Ever wondered how Jack "heard" Ennis was in Riverton?

You bet! 

Maybe it was somebody who knew Ennis who came through Childress on the rodeo circuit. Jack could have met somebody who knew Ennis that way, even if Jack wasn't rodeoing any more.

[Cameron]

You bet! 

Maybe it was somebody who knew Ennis who came through Childress on the rodeo circuit. Jack could have met somebody who knew Ennis that way, even if Jack wasn't rodeoing any more.

I have another question, Lureen said that Jack keeps all his friends addresses in his head.

Where there other 'friends' we don't know about?

[Jeff Wrangler]

I have another question, Lureen said that Jack keeps all his friends addresses in his head.

Where there other 'friends' we don't know about?

Maybe people he met selling farm equipment?

[Jeff Wrangler]

One of my favorite not-in-the-film photos...

Aww, I gotta say it. That is such a cute picture! 

[Katie77]

I have another question, Lureen said that Jack keeps all his friends addresses in his head.

Where there other 'friends' we don't know about?

Maybe people he met selling farm equipment?

Maybe Jack said that he keeps his friends "addresses" in his head, if Laureen had asked about Ennis' address......saying friends....then it wouldn't sound like Ennis was anything special, and that he had lots of friends, personal and professional, that he didnt need to write down their addresses.

[Katie77]

Just reading my previous post back, made me realize something......

Just how much we can justify anything and everything that Jack and Ennis did.

[Cameron]

Maybe Jack said that he keeps his friends "addresses" in his head, if Laureen had asked about Ennis' address......saying friends....then it wouldn't sound like Ennis was anything special, and that he had lots of friends, personal and professional, that he didnt need to write down their addresses.

Your right, that is a good reason, but Jack didn't seem to really hide Ennis from Lureen, I mean she certainly knew about the fishing trips and he was even complaining to her about having to drive so far, so I don't really know why Jack would have to hide Ennis's address from Lureen because she knew about him anyway (well not everything about him) but she knew who he was.  

And if the friends were farm equipment guys wouldn't he need to keep track of them?

Unless they were 'friends' he met while on the road who didn't have anything to do with farm equipment.

[BBM-Cat]

Maybe when it came down to it, making the arrangements and all for the interment of Jack's ashes, Lureen realized there was nobody to contact - that Jack did not have any other close friends. Hence, her comment about Jack 'keeping his friends' addresses in his head'. I took it to mean she was not aware that he had any other friends. - in other words, if he did she would have known them and been able to contact them for notification of his death.

[mvansand76]

Thanks for the affirmation!    Seriously, it was nice to read that someone else experienced this as well.

Well, yeah, it's one of the few things that bugs in me in BBM!

[Jeff Wrangler]

Your right, that is a good reason, but Jack didn't seem to really hide Ennis from Lureen, I mean she certainly knew about the fishing trips and he was even complaining to her about having to drive so far, so I don't really know why Jack would have to hide Ennis's address from Lureen because she knew about him anyway (well not everything about him) but she knew who he was.  

And if the friends were farm equipment guys wouldn't he need to keep track of them?

Unless they were 'friends' he met while on the road who didn't have anything to do with farm equipment.

I thought of that--"friends" who have nothing to do with farm equipment--because I was reminded of the line in the story about Jack having a vague managerial title in the farm equipment business, traveling to shows and sales, and finding ways to spend the money he now had, but I didn't mention it because it seemed too strictly a "story" thing.

Did Jack really complain about the driving? Seems to me it's Lureen who passes a remark about the distance. Jack just points out that he has 14 hours of drivin' ahead of him--meaning he needs to get on the road--but he can't get on the road because he can't find that goddamn blue parka! 

[Ellemeno]

Barbara, thanks for posting the photo!

Shall we analyze the time on the clock and the two different colored lights on the wall over their heads? 

[Penthesilea]

Shall we analyze the time on the clock and the two different colored lights on the wall over their heads? 

errr, hmmm....yes! 

The two different coloured litghts do stand out, don't they? It seems so mismatched in the otherwise perfectly styled Twist home. Maybe that's where Jack draw the line: do what you want with the bedroom - but I won't have a pink light above my head 
Also, the bed seems so small to me. I guess it's what you call a queen size bed. Why didn't they have a king-sized bed? Or is it (or was is by then) ususal for married couples to sleep in such a narrow bed?
C'mon folks, let me hear some bed-stories from across the big pond 

[Ladyeve]

There was only one friend she knew of that was Ennis.   Hence her comment, "where bluebird sing and a whiskey spring." it was related to Jack and Ennis.    Ennis was the friend Jack talk about.  The knowledge of the relationship between them, well, I think she did know, but quietly accepted it.

She did know that Ennis was only one closer to Jack than she was.  The comment about Jack keeping all his friend numbers in his head, was more of stab at Ennis.  But then she told him to contact Jack's parents about the disposition of his ashes, on Brokeback which she thought was pretend place, it wasn't.  She knew Ennis was an important part of Jack's life.  How hard it must have been for her to speak to her rival.      

 Lureen knew and excepted what was going on, Alma couldn't.  She compensated for it, by being more involve with business, and dealing with the idea you're not what your husband wants.

[Phillip Dampier]

Lureen knew and excepted what was going on, Alma couldn't.  She compensated for it, by being more involve with business, and dealing with the idea you're not what your husband wants.

I am not sure Lureen knew (or cared for that matter).  Obviously we are only shown perhaps 20 minutes of screen time with them interacting to any real degree, but my sense is that Lureen was so connected to the family business, she really didn't have much of a clue about what was going on with Jack.  Notice the way they barely handle the problems with Bobby at school, and just about every scene has her hard at work barely looking up when talking to Jack.  His trips to Wyoming elicited almost no curiousity and no sneaky truth-checking like Alma managed.  Of course, after the kissing scene that's not too surprising.  But would Lureen have snuck a note in to a tackle box or even looked at a fishing pole or a price sticker?

I know a lot of people seem to feel Lureen realized something about Ennis and Jack while talking to Ennis, but as the months have passed, I am almost now wondering if her emotional reaction may have come as a realization Ennis seemed more destroyed by Jack's death than she was, and that shocked her because she had been so collected about it.

Other points: 

Jack's "friends" were quite likely those he had rendezvous with and it seems unlikely he would keep their contact information around, much less expose Lureen to them.

Lureen's comments seem to suggest that while she was a realist about her life, he was a perpetual dreamer that didn't always follow through, hence the remarks about idyllic places and situations which she never came to believe were necessarily real.

[injest]

I don't know...seems to me that Lureen and Jack's marriage was a very distant one...it would make sense that Jack wouldn't tell her a lot. He was dependent on her for money, he was trying to hide Ennis (maybe not his existence but definitely his meaning) Once you start keeping secrets it gets hard to let ANY information out...you start seeing everything as a commodity to use or keep...because piece of information leads to another...if all you have that is really YOURS is your secrets You guard them carefully.

and I don't think Lureen 'knew' about Jack and Ennis during the call...my own theory is she was reciting from rote the story she had perfected. Whatever happened to Jack, whether she knew what happened or not. She had a child and an expensive business to run. She got that story and ran with it...Denial can be a strong ally. I think she was exasperated with having to trot it back out probably tired of reciting it...but did realize during the course of the conversation that Ennis DID care about Jack...at whatever level and that is when she relaxed enough to tell him about the ashes...

she sounded to me like she had reached that stage in grief where she was beginning to feel anger toward Jack for dying; but had the proper manners to not show it too much..