Author Topic: Snakes Alive!  (Read 7834 times)

Offline Front-Ranger

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Snakes Alive!
« on: December 07, 2006, 02:55:16 pm »
Jack said that Lureen was like a rabbit tryin to squeeze into a snakehole with a coyote on its tail. It didn't seem like he was describing Lureen; he was really describing himself!! He was trying to fit himself into a restrictive environment. He was a scared rabbit at the mercy of the wolfish homophobes (externally) and desires (internally) that were always on his back.

This topic will address some of the snakes that keep popping up in the movie, the book, and in Annie Proulx's writings and lectures, and in Western literature.

"chewing gum and duct tape"

moremojo

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Re: Snakes Alive!
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2006, 03:02:02 pm »
Hey, Lee--

I am fascinated by snakes, while at the same time fearing them. They are such beautiful creatures, yet so alien and unhuman, not to mention lethal (sometimes to people, and at any rate to some animal or another). But off the top of my head, the snakehole metaphor of Jack's description is the only snakey reference I recall from the film; from the story, I can recall none. Can you cite specific instances?

As for Western literature/culture, I know that the Shoshone (or Shoshoni) Indians were/are sometimes referred to as the Snake Indians. Sacagawea, of Lewis-and-Clark fame, belonged to this tribe by birth.

Let's get the snake-talk rolling (or slithering!).

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Re: Snakes Alive!
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2006, 03:23:46 pm »
To start this off on an Anything Goes note, here is a modern interpretation of the Snake Goddess of mythology:

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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Snakes Alive!
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2006, 03:33:11 pm »
I have no better authority for this than the novels of Mary Renault, but I understand that in ancient Greece, the snake was thought to be the messenger who brought messages from the Mother to Her priestesses. Anybody know if that's correct?
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

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Re: Snakes Alive!
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2006, 03:39:33 pm »
Yes, that's correct, Jeff, and also the snake is a general symbol for femininity. You might find that surprising because of the snake's resemblance to a certain male organ, but really the snake is thought to emulate a woman because of the way it undulates.

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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Snakes Alive!
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2006, 03:50:18 pm »
Yes, that's correct, Jeff, and also the snake is a general symbol for femininity. You might find that surprising because of the snake's resemblance to a certain male organ, but really the snake is thought to emulate a woman because of the way it undulates.



Actually, I don't find that surprising, but less because of the snake's resemblance to a certain male organ --  ;D --than because of the misogyny of the Bible (the serpent in the Garden).

Generally, my reaction to snakes is akin to Indiana Jones's reaction to snakes, which, I guess, is why my memory of things I've read about snakes is kind of vague, but isn't there something also about the molting symbolizing rebirth? Or maybe it's resurrection? Or maybe I'm just really confused?
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

moremojo

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Re: Snakes Alive!
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2006, 05:31:13 pm »
Actually, I don't find that surprising, but less because of the snake's resemblance to a certain male organ --  ;D --than because of the misogyny of the Bible (the serpent in the Garden).
The serpent-Eve exchange might actually be a very ancient remnant of the fertility goddess and her avatar or sacred animal, the original divinely feminine nuances made opaque through a later veneer of patriarchy. The late Joseph Campbell intimated as much in his lectures.

I just learned that the Eastern Shoshones live principally on the Wind River Indian Reservation--exactly where Riverton is located! There is one tradition that Sacagawea is buried there.

Off-topic: I have to go undulate my way now to the dentist's office, to have two wisdom teach extracted. :-X Wish me luck! I hope I'm well enough to check back in tomorrow.

Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: Snakes Alive!
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2006, 05:49:47 pm »
(Good luck Scott, feel for you!)

"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

moremojo

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Re: Snakes Alive!
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2006, 11:05:45 am »
(Thanks, Truman. I had the two "teach" [you can tell I was in a hurry when I typed that]  pulled yesterday evening, and am feeling well enough to be back at work today. Jaw is sore, and still bleeding a little, but so far have kept the dreaded dry socket at bay. Looking forward to lots of rest this weekend).

Now back on topic: Jeff, the serpent was seen by many cultures as a symbol of regeneration or eternity. Its mysterious shedding of its skin was seen as a literal rebirth. There's also the image of the snake eating its own tail, representing a state of cyclical forevermore.

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Re: Snakes Alive!
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2006, 01:03:49 pm »
I wonder if the lasso could be considered an extension of the snake imagery in the movie and book??

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moremojo

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Re: Snakes Alive!
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2006, 01:08:04 pm »
I wonder if the lasso could be considered an extension of the snake imagery in the movie and book??


I saw the lassoing scene of Jack snaring Ennis as a literal metaphor of how he captures the lad's heart and doesn't let go. The circular nature of the lasso might be redolent of the eternity aspect of the snake eating its own tail: this is a love that will never die.

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Re: Snakes Alive!
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2006, 02:05:46 pm »
Yes that is the happy interpretation of it, and the sadder one is where Ennis says, "I'm caught in my own loop."  :(
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Re: Snakes Alive!
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2007, 09:56:01 pm »
There is an oblique reference to snakes in the very first sentence of the story, Brokeback Mountain:

Ennis del Mar wakes before five, wind rocking the trailer, hissing in around the aluminum door and window frames. The shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft.

Did you catch it? It's the word hissing.

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moremojo

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Re: Snakes Alive!
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2007, 10:30:49 am »
Off-topic, as far as BBM is concerned, but serpentine nonetheless in its allusions: I read recently of Franz Liszt's Sonate in B minor (written in about 1852-1853, and publicly premiered in 1857), in one movement, being described as "snake-like"--making me all the more keen to hear it someday. This, reputedly one of Liszt's masterpieces, was dedicated by him to Robert Schumann.

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Re: Snakes Alive!
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2007, 10:42:39 am »
That's interesting, Scott! And don't worry about it being off-topic--that's why I put this in Anything Goes!

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Re: Snakes Alive!
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2007, 04:22:36 pm »
Snakes keep popping up in my life! Friday nite, LauraGigs invited me to a concert by a funk music group, and we were treated beforehand to a tableau by three women painted with snake symbols and covered with feathers and fur. Then, I was reading a review of the movie Black Snake Moan, and the director was explaining the origin of the title. Only problem was, the explanation was unprintable in the newspaper. But I was able to gather that the snake reference was to the male penis, which surprised me because snakes are usually associated with females. I also went to a performance called "Heartbeat" about Chinese history yesterday, and there were several snake references. In addition, the dragon used in the New Years celebration dance is very snakelike, with its fangs, forked tongue, and long undulating tail.


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Re: Snakes Alive!
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2007, 04:27:07 pm »
I have seen Annie Proulx speaking twice, and both times she ended with references to snakes. At the literary conference in Casper last October, she told a joke that included a yellow snake. In Boulder, Colorado, she ended with the words, "Stay on your side of the Snake." Interesting and puzzling...
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moremojo

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Some 'Brokeback' Snakes
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2007, 05:44:15 pm »
I have determined that the following people associated with the film Brokeback Mountain were born in the Year of the Snake:

Bob Dylan (born 1941)--is credited with having written the song 'He Was A Friend Of Mine' (covered by Willie Nelson); in actuality, Dylan seems to have transcribed the song, and may have been the first to record it.

Kim Olsen (born 1965)--key grip

Geraldine Peroni (1953-2004)--co-editor, and receives an "in loving memory of" citation during the closing credits

Rodrigo Prieto (born 1965)--cinematographer, making a cameo appearance in the film as the male prostitute Jack encounters in Mexico 

Offline David In Indy

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Re: Snakes Alive!
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2007, 05:50:18 pm »
Snakes keep popping up in my life! Friday nite, LauraGigs invited me to a concert by a funk music group, and we were treated beforehand to a tableau by three women painted with snake symbols and covered with feathers and fur. Then, I was reading a review of the movie Black Snake Moan, and the director was explaining the origin of the title. Only problem was, the explanation was unprintable in the newspaper. But I was able to gather that the snake reference was to the male penis, which surprised me because snakes are usually associated with females. I also went to a performance called "Heartbeat" about Chinese history yesterday, and there were several snake references. In addition, the dragon used in the New Years celebration dance is very snakelike, with its fangs, forked tongue, and long undulating tail.




And then there was that movie.... Snakes on a Plane!  :P
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Re: Snakes Alive!
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2007, 11:18:51 pm »
Just when you think all is safe...it's the full moon and the Snake Goddess appears!!


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moremojo

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Re: Snakes Alive!
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2007, 10:17:50 am »
Just thinkin' out loud about the first snake reference that comes to mind this morning:

The great tragic poet Sophocles, renowned for his piety, kept the serpent sacred to Asclepius in his own home when that god's cult was first introduced to Athens. The serpent was this god of healing's totemic animal.

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Re: Some 'Brokeback' Snakes
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2008, 09:55:28 pm »
I have determined that the following people associated with the film Brokeback Mountain were born in the Year of the Snake:
I realized today that late costume designer Marit Allen (1941-2007) was also born in the Year of the Snake.

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Re: Snakes Alive!
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2008, 01:43:35 am »
Verrry Interesting!!
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